Portland - Sac - Washington + 4th team

[LightTheBeam]

Portland Out: Thybulle
Portland in: #26

Wizards out: Kuzma, 26
Wizards in: Barnes OR Huerter, #13

Sac out: Huerter, Barnes, #13
Sac in: Thybulle, Kuzma

4th team (Detroit, Orlando, SA) out: Top 55 protected 2nd
4th team in: Huerter OR Barnes (this team chooses who)

Why for Portland? Cut salary, get a draft pick.

Why for Wizards? I imagine they do this trade with Barnes or Huerter coming in, so the 4th team decides who they want, and then Wizards would take the other guy. But simple, often discussed, they move up for a guy not in the long term plans.

Why for Sac? A move is coming. Kuzma should help offset the scoring we stand to lose if Monk is gone, and Thybulle is another wing defender we badly need.

Why for the 4th team? Depends who it is, but I've had lots of convos of why I think Detroit should love having a guy like Barnes as a good example for the kids. Huerter adds necessary shooting and is young enough to have a rebound year. Orlando needs shooters and both Barnes/Huerter are cheap enough that they make sense for cap space. Spurs + Barnes also makes sense to me, Pop loves Barnes from team USA days, they are probably a year away from looking at FA and he's a great stop gap for them.

[JRoy]

Love it for POR and I’m a Thybulle guy.

[psman2]

Put me down as no team will just take either Huerter or Barnes without compensation before FA has started. Huerter coming off shoulder injury and a down year is likely not going to be easy to just dump. Barnes I had as a bad signing and has only looked worse, I don't have a team taking him on for free until they at least make some FA pitches that are declined first.

[nate33]

Thybulle was signed just last year on the open market for less than MLE money. Dozens of teams had the ability to sign him and were not interested. By definition, that means he was signed for neutral value, neither a bargain nor an overpay. Since then, he played a bit worse than in previous seasons. At best, he still has neutral value, but he probably has slightly negative value, meaning Portland would have to give up a late SRP or something just to unload him.

I fail to see how he commands a FRP in this trade.

The Wizards might do this, but they're keeping their #26 pick. Portland doesn't get it.

[cucad8]

If I'm portland, I'm seeing if I can cut out Washington, and swap in Grant for kuzma, and then haggle on the price with Sacramento and a 2rd team.

[LightTheBeam]

Thybulle was signed just last year on the open market for less than MLE money. Dozens of teams had the ability to sign him and were not interested. By definition, that means he was signed for neutral value, neither a bargain nor an overpay. Since then, he played a bit worse than in previous seasons. At best, he still has neutral value, but he probably has slightly negative value, meaning Portland would have to give up a late SRP or something just to unload him.

I fail to see how he commands a FRP in this trade.

The Wizards might do this, but they're keeping their #26 pick. Portland doesn't get it.

Put me down as no team will just take either Huerter or Barnes without compensation before FA has started. Huerter coming off shoulder injury and a down year is likely not going to be easy to just dump. Barnes I had as a bad signing and has only looked worse, I don't have a team taking him on for free until they at least make some FA pitches that are declined first.

Well combining both your feedback.

Let me start by saying, if I'm Sac, I hope they don't trade 13 + salary for Kuzma without getting 26 back to keep or use elsewhere. The thought of 13 for Kuzma alone makes me grossed out.

So... With that in mind...

Maybe 26 is routed with Huerter/Barnes to the 4th team, and then Portland gets to dump Thybulle for free without any incentive but also without paying anything?

[nate33]

Thybulle was signed just last year on the open market for less than MLE money. Dozens of teams had the ability to sign him and were not interested. By definition, that means he was signed for neutral value, neither a bargain nor an overpay. Since then, he played a bit worse than in previous seasons. At best, he still has neutral value, but he probably has slightly negative value, meaning Portland would have to give up a late SRP or something just to unload him.

I fail to see how he commands a FRP in this trade.

The Wizards might do this, but they're keeping their #26 pick. Portland doesn't get it.

Put me down as no team will just take either Huerter or Barnes without compensation before FA has started. Huerter coming off shoulder injury and a down year is likely not going to be easy to just dump. Barnes I had as a bad signing and has only looked worse, I don't have a team taking him on for free until they at least make some FA pitches that are declined first.

Well combining both your feedback.

Let me start by saying, if I'm Sac, I hope they don't trade 13 + salary for Kuzma without getting 26 back to keep or use elsewhere. The thought of 13 for Kuzma alone makes me grossed out.

So... With that in mind...

Maybe 26 is routed with Huerter/Barnes to the 4th team, and then Portland gets to dump Thybulle for free without any incentive but also without paying anything?

I don't think the Wizards are giving up Kuzma if they have to unload that #26 pick too.

[LightTheBeam]

If I'm portland, I'm seeing if I can cut out Washington, and swap in Grant for kuzma, and then haggle on the price with Sacramento and a 2rd team.

As a Sac fan I really don't love the idea of trading for either Kuzma or Grant... But end of the day

Kuzma - 3/64
Grant - 4/132.3

The more I've looked at what Grant is owed, the more I would want to be paid to take that contract. No chance he ever lives up to that deal. He's a fine player, but significantly overpaid. It also becomes hard to add Grant +, where as adding Kuzma + someone like Thybulle is much easier financially.

[LightTheBeam]

Thybulle was signed just last year on the open market for less than MLE money. Dozens of teams had the ability to sign him and were not interested. By definition, that means he was signed for neutral value, neither a bargain nor an overpay. Since then, he played a bit worse than in previous seasons. At best, he still has neutral value, but he probably has slightly negative value, meaning Portland would have to give up a late SRP or something just to unload him.

I fail to see how he commands a FRP in this trade.

The Wizards might do this, but they're keeping their #26 pick. Portland doesn't get it.

Put me down as no team will just take either Huerter or Barnes without compensation before FA has started. Huerter coming off shoulder injury and a down year is likely not going to be easy to just dump. Barnes I had as a bad signing and has only looked worse, I don't have a team taking him on for free until they at least make some FA pitches that are declined first.

Well combining both your feedback.

Let me start by saying, if I'm Sac, I hope they don't trade 13 + salary for Kuzma without getting 26 back to keep or use elsewhere. The thought of 13 for Kuzma alone makes me grossed out.

So... With that in mind...

Maybe 26 is routed with Huerter/Barnes to the 4th team, and then Portland gets to dump Thybulle for free without any incentive but also without paying anything?

I don't think the Wizards are giving up Kuzma if they have to unload that #26 pick too.

That's a fair thought. I already have reservations about the op, and have only come to terms with it because I think the Kings will make a move out of desperation. If 26 isn't included, I really really hope that's a deal breaker for Monte. No past trades to say that a guy like Kuzma is worth #13 in any draft. Another poster (can't remember who sorry!) outlined all the similar deals for guys like Derrick White, Aaron Gordon, and none of them were that expensive while being better players.

[nate33]

I don't think the Wizards are giving up Kuzma if they have to unload that #26 pick too.

That's a fair thought. I already have reservations about the op, and have only come to terms with it because I think the Kings will make a move out of desperation. If 26 isn't included, I really really hope that's a deal breaker for Monte. No past trades to say that a guy like Kuzma is worth #13 in any draft. Another poster (can't remember who sorry!) outlined all the similar deals for guys like Derrick White, Aaron Gordon, and none of them were that expensive while being better players.

I think your stance is reasonable.

This is what these boards are for. To help understand the perspective of other fans. I could see the Wizards and Kings having a Kuzma trade discussion that hinges on where that #26 pick ends up. It would be interesting to see who blinks first, or if both teams just walk away.

[JRoy]

Thybulle was signed just last year on the open market for less than MLE money. Dozens of teams had the ability to sign him and were not interested. By definition, that means he was signed for neutral value, neither a bargain nor an overpay. Since then, he played a bit worse than in previous seasons. At best, he still has neutral value, but he probably has slightly negative value, meaning Portland would have to give up a late SRP or something just to unload him.

I fail to see how he commands a FRP in this trade.

The Wizards might do this, but they're keeping their #26 pick. Portland doesn't get it.

No worries, we will keep him.

[LightTheBeam]

I don't think the Wizards are giving up Kuzma if they have to unload that #26 pick too.

That's a fair thought. I already have reservations about the op, and have only come to terms with it because I think the Kings will make a move out of desperation. If 26 isn't included, I really really hope that's a deal breaker for Monte. No past trades to say that a guy like Kuzma is worth #13 in any draft. Another poster (can't remember who sorry!) outlined all the similar deals for guys like Derrick White, Aaron Gordon, and none of them were that expensive while being better players.

I think your stance is reasonable.

This is what these boards are for. To help understand the perspective of other fans. I could see the Wizards and Kings having a Kuzma trade discussion that hinges on where that #26 pick ends up. It would be interesting to see who blinks first, or if both teams just walk away.

Absolutely agree.

And I think that will definitely be a piece of discussion. I'm just curious in this scenario who the Kings would be bidding against. Of course more value could be made up elsewhere, but within the top 20, the only teams that I could see being a player for Kuzma outside of Sac is Miami/LA.

If Miami decided Kuzma made sense, Robinson + Minimum salary + 15 for Kuzma works. But Kuzma doesn't feel like a Miami player, and they already have Jimmy, Jaime, Jovic, still could make sense.

Lakers could offer Vincent + Vando + 17 for Kuzma.

Are either of those better than including 26 to get up to 13? Possibly.

And not sure how much of a difference it makes, but I'd probably include 1-2 non-Portland 2nds back to Washington to make #26 happen.

[cucad8]

If I'm portland, I'm seeing if I can cut out Washington, and swap in Grant for kuzma, and then haggle on the price with Sacramento and a 2rd team.

As a Sac fan I really don't love the idea of trading for either Kuzma or Grant... But end of the day

Kuzma - 3/64
Grant - 4/132.3

The more I've looked at what Grant is owed, the more I would want to be paid to take that contract. No chance he ever lives up to that deal. He's a fine player, but significantly overpaid. It also becomes hard to add Grant +, where as adding Kuzma + someone like Thybulle is much easier financially.

That's totally fair. I've seen other Kings fans suggest different variations of Grant to there, so was just playing off of that

[LightTheBeam]

If I'm portland, I'm seeing if I can cut out Washington, and swap in Grant for kuzma, and then haggle on the price with Sacramento and a 2rd team.

As a Sac fan I really don't love the idea of trading for either Kuzma or Grant... But end of the day

Kuzma - 3/64
Grant - 4/132.3

The more I've looked at what Grant is owed, the more I would want to be paid to take that contract. No chance he ever lives up to that deal. He's a fine player, but significantly overpaid. It also becomes hard to add Grant +, where as adding Kuzma + someone like Thybulle is much easier financially.

That's totally fair. I've seen other Kings fans suggest different variations of Grant to there, so was just playing off of that

If I was confident that Vivek would spend and money didn't matter, I might prefer Grant. But as is, we want to resign Monk, Fox/Keegan are due extensions. I can't see Sac being a player for Grant. Those 5 guys would be making 175+ million, it doesn't seem to realistic.