Shams: Lillard to Milwaukee in three team deal

[JB7]

Which is why you don't trade for the sake of making trades. That's what the Bucks did and knee jerked. They had a very solid 2 way PG already in place. Swapping him for a highly offensive one just for the sake of doing it wasn't the right move (which also backfired since he went to a contending team like the Celtics). If Bucks knew he was going to re-routed there, they weren't making that deal. In the end, Jrue wasn't the issue and the lack of patience so far has costed them, and that's not even including paying 3 coaches at once.

The reason for the knee jerk trade is Giannis was probably threatening a trade request if they didn't. I'm sure that is where this will ultimately lead, and in Giannis' case, he doesn't want to waste any more seasons, and hence the knee jerk reaction/trade.

And in the end they are worse off for it.

Are the Bucks really that worse off though? They bombed out of the playoffs because Giannis didn't play a game.

Their season record was worse, but a large part of that could be blamed on coaching - Griffin implementing a different defensive system than Bud, that was horrible for them at the start of the season, and then Doc being hired for Grif, and he was horrible. Had they just kept Bud, their record might have been similar to the previous season.

Also, keep in mind Jrue was what their 2nd option on O, with Middleton's injuries. In Boston, Jrue is the 4th or 5th option on O, depending on whether KP is playing. He is definitely behind Tatum, Brown and White. Jrue percentages are looking great because he is getting wide open looks under the basket for layups, or wide open 3's. He is not being asked to initiate the offense, like he was in Milwaukee. Boston is the perfect role for him - allows him to focus on D, and just hit open looks on O.

Bucks are at the point where they need to compete for championships. Who better serves that purpose? Dame or Jrue as their 2nd option on O. D is much more important in the playoffs, but at the end of the day, if they can't hit shots, they aren't going anywhere. And Dallas has shown, teams can up their level on D in the playoffs, but players don't usually out of the blue turn into 1st or 2nd options on O in the playoffs. It is usually in the playoffs where players are exposed. During the season they might look like a 2nd option for the team, but with the increased focus and effort on D in the playoffs, their scoring disappears - like Jrue has shown in previous playoffs with the Bucks where his shooting percentages would drop from close to 50% in the season to 40% in the playoffs.

[WuTang_CMB]

The reason for the knee jerk trade is Giannis was probably threatening a trade request if they didn't. I'm sure that is where this will ultimately lead, and in Giannis' case, he doesn't want to waste any more seasons, and hence the knee jerk reaction/trade.

And in the end they are worse off for it.

Are the Bucks really that worse off though? They bombed out of the playoffs because Giannis didn't play a game.

Their season record was worse, but a large part of that could be blamed on coaching - Griffin implementing a different defensive system than Bud, that was horrible for them at the start of the season, and then Doc being hired for Grif, and he was horrible. Had they just kept Bud, their record might have been similar to the previous season.

Also, keep in mind Jrue was what their 2nd option on O, with Middleton's injuries. In Boston, Jrue is the 4th or 5th option on O, depending on whether KP is playing. He is definitely behind Tatum, Brown and White. Jrue percentages are looking great because he is getting wide open looks under the basket for layups, or wide open 3's. He is not being asked to initiate the offense, like he was in Milwaukee. Boston is the perfect role for him - allows him to focus on D, and just hit open looks on O.

Bucks are at the point where they need to compete for championships. Who better serves that purpose? Dame or Jrue as their 2nd option on O. D is much more important in the playoffs, but at the end of the day, if they can't hit shots, they aren't going anywhere. And Dallas has shown, teams can up their level on D in the playoffs, but players don't usually out of the blue turn into 1st or 2nd options on O in the playoffs. It is usually in the playoffs where players are exposed. During the season they might look like a 2nd option for the team, but with the increased focus and effort on D in the playoffs, their scoring disappears - like Jrue has shown in previous playoffs with the Bucks where his shooting percentages would drop from close to 50% in the season to 40% in the playoffs.

Yes they are. Defensive rating took a major hit from year to year by losing jrue. Lillard isnt much younger and plays no defense. Trading jrue was a mistake on the overall and they likely arent making that deal if given that chance again.

[JB7]

And in the end they are worse off for it.

Are the Bucks really that worse off though? They bombed out of the playoffs because Giannis didn't play a game.

Their season record was worse, but a large part of that could be blamed on coaching - Griffin implementing a different defensive system than Bud, that was horrible for them at the start of the season, and then Doc being hired for Grif, and he was horrible. Had they just kept Bud, their record might have been similar to the previous season.

Also, keep in mind Jrue was what their 2nd option on O, with Middleton's injuries. In Boston, Jrue is the 4th or 5th option on O, depending on whether KP is playing. He is definitely behind Tatum, Brown and White. Jrue percentages are looking great because he is getting wide open looks under the basket for layups, or wide open 3's. He is not being asked to initiate the offense, like he was in Milwaukee. Boston is the perfect role for him - allows him to focus on D, and just hit open looks on O.

Bucks are at the point where they need to compete for championships. Who better serves that purpose? Dame or Jrue as their 2nd option on O. D is much more important in the playoffs, but at the end of the day, if they can't hit shots, they aren't going anywhere. And Dallas has shown, teams can up their level on D in the playoffs, but players don't usually out of the blue turn into 1st or 2nd options on O in the playoffs. It is usually in the playoffs where players are exposed. During the season they might look like a 2nd option for the team, but with the increased focus and effort on D in the playoffs, their scoring disappears - like Jrue has shown in previous playoffs with the Bucks where his shooting percentages would drop from close to 50% in the season to 40% in the playoffs.

Yes they are. Defensive rating took a major hit from year to year by losing jrue. Lillard isnt much younger and plays no defense. Trading jrue was a mistake on the overall and they likely arent making that deal if given that chance again.

I think the first thing they take back is firing Bud.

[WuTang_CMB]

Are the Bucks really that worse off though? They bombed out of the playoffs because Giannis didn't play a game.

Their season record was worse, but a large part of that could be blamed on coaching - Griffin implementing a different defensive system than Bud, that was horrible for them at the start of the season, and then Doc being hired for Grif, and he was horrible. Had they just kept Bud, their record might have been similar to the previous season.

Also, keep in mind Jrue was what their 2nd option on O, with Middleton's injuries. In Boston, Jrue is the 4th or 5th option on O, depending on whether KP is playing. He is definitely behind Tatum, Brown and White. Jrue percentages are looking great because he is getting wide open looks under the basket for layups, or wide open 3's. He is not being asked to initiate the offense, like he was in Milwaukee. Boston is the perfect role for him - allows him to focus on D, and just hit open looks on O.

Bucks are at the point where they need to compete for championships. Who better serves that purpose? Dame or Jrue as their 2nd option on O. D is much more important in the playoffs, but at the end of the day, if they can't hit shots, they aren't going anywhere. And Dallas has shown, teams can up their level on D in the playoffs, but players don't usually out of the blue turn into 1st or 2nd options on O in the playoffs. It is usually in the playoffs where players are exposed. During the season they might look like a 2nd option for the team, but with the increased focus and effort on D in the playoffs, their scoring disappears - like Jrue has shown in previous playoffs with the Bucks where his shooting percentages would drop from close to 50% in the season to 40% in the playoffs.

Yes they are. Defensive rating took a major hit from year to year by losing jrue. Lillard isnt much younger and plays no defense. Trading jrue was a mistake on the overall and they likely arent making that deal if given that chance again.

I think the first thing they take back is firing Bud.

Trading jrue was a flop of a trade and then it backfired on them. Horst has struck out few times here

[JB7]

Yes they are. Defensive rating took a major hit from year to year by losing jrue. Lillard isnt much younger and plays no defense. Trading jrue was a mistake on the overall and they likely arent making that deal if given that chance again.

I think the first thing they take back is firing Bud.

Trading jrue was a flop of a trade and then it backfired on them. Horst has struck out few times here

Still think they could have made it work better with Dame, if they had a competent coach. Their coaching was atrocious this year.

Giannis and Dame was all the offense they needed. They just needed a better strategy on D. Dame could have been hidden better on D.

But even at the time of the Dame trade, I thought this was only a solution for 1 or 2 years. It gives them a chance at a run in the East for these 1 or 2 years, and then they need to trade Giannis for future assets, and rebuild.

[WuTang_CMB]

I think the first thing they take back is firing Bud.

Trading jrue was a flop of a trade and then it backfired on them. Horst has struck out few times here

Still think they could have made it work better with Dame, if they had a competent coach. Their coaching was atrocious this year.

Giannis and Dame was all the offense they needed. They just needed a better strategy on D. Dame could have been hidden better on D.

But even at the time of the Dame trade, I thought this was only a solution for 1 or 2 years. It gives them a chance at a run in the East for these 1 or 2 years, and then they need to trade Giannis for future assets, and rebuild.

A defensive 2 way pg in jrue wasnt the issue which ur still not getting. Horst knee jerked on lillard being a sexy name full of offense but didnt account for the loss in defense by jrue as we see how important he is. Lillard already not happy also. Bad coaching change and moving a core piece by not getting better were major misfires

[JB7]

Trading jrue was a flop of a trade and then it backfired on them. Horst has struck out few times here

Still think they could have made it work better with Dame, if they had a competent coach. Their coaching was atrocious this year.

Giannis and Dame was all the offense they needed. They just needed a better strategy on D. Dame could have been hidden better on D.

But even at the time of the Dame trade, I thought this was only a solution for 1 or 2 years. It gives them a chance at a run in the East for these 1 or 2 years, and then they need to trade Giannis for future assets, and rebuild.

A defensive 2 way pg in jrue wasnt the issue which ur still not getting. Horst knee jerked on lillard being a sexy name full of offense but didnt account for the loss in defense by jrue as we see how important he is. Lillard already not happy also. Bad coaching change and moving a core piece by not getting better were major misfires

But Jrue isn't a 2 way PG. He is a great defensive PG, that on a winning team is best suited as probably the 4th option on offense.

No team is winning a championship without an initiator on O.

[WuTang_CMB]

Still think they could have made it work better with Dame, if they had a competent coach. Their coaching was atrocious this year.

Giannis and Dame was all the offense they needed. They just needed a better strategy on D. Dame could have been hidden better on D.

But even at the time of the Dame trade, I thought this was only a solution for 1 or 2 years. It gives them a chance at a run in the East for these 1 or 2 years, and then they need to trade Giannis for future assets, and rebuild.

A defensive 2 way pg in jrue wasnt the issue which ur still not getting. Horst knee jerked on lillard being a sexy name full of offense but didnt account for the loss in defense by jrue as we see how important he is. Lillard already not happy also. Bad coaching change and moving a core piece by not getting better were major misfires

But Jrue isn't a 2 way PG. He is a great defensive PG, that on a winning team is best suited as probably the 4th option on offense.

No team is winning a championship without an initiator on O.

He most definitely is stronz and losing him hurt their defensive identity of the team

[JB7]

A defensive 2 way pg in jrue wasnt the issue which ur still not getting. Horst knee jerked on lillard being a sexy name full of offense but didnt account for the loss in defense by jrue as we see how important he is. Lillard already not happy also. Bad coaching change and moving a core piece by not getting better were major misfires

But Jrue isn't a 2 way PG. He is a great defensive PG, that on a winning team is best suited as probably the 4th option on offense.

No team is winning a championship without an initiator on O.

He most definitely is stronz and losing him hurt their defensive identity of the team

Don't disagree that losing him hurt their defensive identity. But with Middleton a shell of himself, their O could not rely on Jrue as the initiator. They tried it with him the last two playoffs and got nowhere. They needed to try something different.

Sad thing is, I worry that Giannis' injury is worse then reported. I wonder if they are dealing with an Achilles issue. Which if that is the case, not only is the team going nowhere, even the plans to move Giannis to start their rebuild blows up in their face as well.

[WuTang_CMB]

But Jrue isn't a 2 way PG. He is a great defensive PG, that on a winning team is best suited as probably the 4th option on offense.

No team is winning a championship without an initiator on O.

He most definitely is stronz and losing him hurt their defensive identity of the team

Don't disagree that losing him hurt their defensive identity. But with Middleton a shell of himself, their O could not rely on Jrue as the initiator. They tried it with him the last two playoffs and got nowhere. They needed to try something different.

Sad thing is, I worry that Giannis' injury is worse then reported. I wonder if they are dealing with an Achilles issue. Which if that is the case, not only is the team going nowhere, even the plans to move Giannis to start their rebuild blows up in their face as well.

Jrue wasn’t the issue though. Middleton was. Again it was a flop of a deal. Giannis injury no one knows. You are speculating as usual

[JB7]

He most definitely is stronz and losing him hurt their defensive identity of the team

Don't disagree that losing him hurt their defensive identity. But with Middleton a shell of himself, their O could not rely on Jrue as the initiator. They tried it with him the last two playoffs and got nowhere. They needed to try something different.

Sad thing is, I worry that Giannis' injury is worse then reported. I wonder if they are dealing with an Achilles issue. Which if that is the case, not only is the team going nowhere, even the plans to move Giannis to start their rebuild blows up in their face as well.

Jrue wasn’t the issue though. Middleton was. Again it was a flop of a deal. Giannis injury no one knows. You are speculating as usual

They had no way to replace what Middleton brought other than trading Jrue. They weren't getting Dame for Middleton's contract. The only valuable assets the Bucks had were Giannis & Jrue.

And on the Giannis injury, what else can you do but speculate, when teams are dishonest about the actual injuries. Teams don't want to disclose the real injury, as it can hurt the value of their players.

[WuTang_CMB]

Don't disagree that losing him hurt their defensive identity. But with Middleton a shell of himself, their O could not rely on Jrue as the initiator. They tried it with him the last two playoffs and got nowhere. They needed to try something different.

Sad thing is, I worry that Giannis' injury is worse then reported. I wonder if they are dealing with an Achilles issue. Which if that is the case, not only is the team going nowhere, even the plans to move Giannis to start their rebuild blows up in their face as well.

Jrue wasn’t the issue though. Middleton was. Again it was a flop of a deal. Giannis injury no one knows. You are speculating as usual

They had no way to replace what Middleton brought other than trading Jrue. They weren't getting Dame for Middleton's contract. The only valuable assets the Bucks had were Giannis & Jrue.

And on the Giannis injury, what else can you do but speculate, when teams are dishonest about the actual injuries. Teams don't want to disclose the real injury, as it can hurt the value of their players.

Doesnt justify trading jrue and getting worse which they are, today. I’v already explained this many times. Stop speculating re: giannis. U speculated on phx trading their guys and i told u they werent.

[KawhiSoSerious]

Jrue wasn’t the issue though. Middleton was. Again it was a flop of a deal. Giannis injury no one knows. You are speculating as usual

They had no way to replace what Middleton brought other than trading Jrue. They weren't getting Dame for Middleton's contract. The only valuable assets the Bucks had were Giannis & Jrue.

And on the Giannis injury, what else can you do but speculate, when teams are dishonest about the actual injuries. Teams don't want to disclose the real injury, as it can hurt the value of their players.

Doesnt justify trading jrue and getting worse which they are, today. I’v already explained this many times. Stop speculating re: giannis. U speculated on phx trading their guys and i told u they werent.

In addition to trading Jrue to replace what Middleton was supposed to bring on offense making no sense, they exacerbated the problem by not replacing what they lost by trading Jrue, but also what they lost in trading Allen.

And that is on top of trading future assets away preventing them from using them to trade away later to fill in all the new self-imposed gaps.

[Dr Positivity]

The Bucks needed to pick one of two, change or coach or trade a core player. I think both was overdoing it.

[WaltFrazier]

Still think they could have made it work better with Dame, if they had a competent coach. Their coaching was atrocious this year.

Giannis and Dame was all the offense they needed. They just needed a better strategy on D. Dame could have been hidden better on D.

But even at the time of the Dame trade, I thought this was only a solution for 1 or 2 years. It gives them a chance at a run in the East for these 1 or 2 years, and then they need to trade Giannis for future assets, and rebuild.

A defensive 2 way pg in jrue wasnt the issue which ur still not getting. Horst knee jerked on lillard being a sexy name full of offense but didnt account for the loss in defense by jrue as we see how important he is. Lillard already not happy also. Bad coaching change and moving a core piece by not getting better were major misfires

But Jrue isn't a 2 way PG. He is a great defensive PG, that on a winning team is best suited as probably the 4th option on offense.

No team is winning a championship without an initiator on O.

Both are true. They weren't winning with Dame this year even if Giannis is healthy in playoffs. But they weren't winning by keeping Jrue and running it back either. They had to make an improvement, it's just that Dame wasn't the way. Their time has passed either way, as far as true title contention.

[bballsparkin]

Dame's offensive output was still so much better than Jrue's that it doesn't matter. Dame had a significant drop-off this year, and claimed he didn't work out much to heal. Of course, did Milwaukee know that at the time? Jrue is also always banged up and was awful in the first round of the previous playoffs. I think it didn't work out and Milwaukee handled it poorly, included the bizarre decision to hire Griffin, fire Stotts, fire Griffin and then hire Doc. But does any of that really matter? Giannis didn't play in the playoffs.

I'm a Dame doubter. I think he's overrated. Stats gone wild. He can score though no doubt. One of the best at that. Otherwise, I agree. Neither Dame nor Jrue was saving the Bucks. They are seriously depleted and at this point it's Giannis or bust. The coaching fiasco was embarrassing.