Gauging Jaden Ivey's Trade Value - Which Concepts Work?

[eitanr]

Detroit is heading into a pivotal off-season for the franchise. They need to start thinking about players that can help elevate their current youth in play and start having the resemblance of a competitive ball club.

This process first starts with what youth to prioritize. It doesn't seem plausible to build around Cade, Ausar AND Ivey. All three need the ball in their hands to be successful, are not exactly ideal off ball targets, and need usage. Simply put, while each individually is talented and has shown growth, they don't seem to be in the best situation to grow together. We didn't even mention the 5th pick which could actually complicate that concept, if say another ball dominant usage talent is drafted.

Ivey is the odd man out of that group. He and Cade don't really shine together, and Ausar seems like the better long term prospect also given his defensive potential. The team needs to worry about a Killian Hayes sequel.

So, if Ivey is the best guy to move, what are the options?

What's been noted before:

WIZARDS
Ivey for Kispert and the 26th pick

Why for Washington: Ivey is worth this type of flyer for an expiring spacing wing and a late pick. Ivey can help form a very interesting long term core with Bilal, Deni and the incoming 2nd pick - whether Sarr, Clingan or Rissacher. He will have perimeter usage available to him to develop, especially if the franchise continues using Poole as a 6th man

Why for Detroit: The Pistons need spacing, always. Kispert is still 25 and can help spread the floor in units with Cade and Ausar. The 26th pick can be a nice backup 5 the Pistons will eventually need. This draft has plenty of them. Filipowski is an interesting choice there.

NETS
Ivey, Brown Jr FOR Cam Johnson, future PHX 1st

Why for BKN: The Nets need an injection of youth like your grandma. Ivey will be given more reign here with already existing spacing in Bridges, DFS and Cam Thomas. The Nets can also shed roughly $12M in cap in the move.

Why for Detroit. Cam is familiar with Monty and can serve as a small ball 4 in units with Thompson at the 3. Cam has been a bit injury prone, so the future PHX 1st is an interesting asset for Detroit to hang onto in their war chest.

SPURS
Ivey, Brown Jr FOR Keldon Johnson

Why for SAS: Ivey can fit immediately as the team's new PG. He can be a real interesting long term tandem with Victor.

Why for DET: Can Johnson be effective as a long term small ball 5? It may work IF Reed falls to 5 for Detroit. The team can have a more fun and sensible starting unit with better spacing and half court scoring. Johnson is only 24.

New Concepts:

BLAZERS
Ivey, Brown Jr, 5th pick FOR Simons 7th pick

Why for POR: Cody Williams is a perfect target for Portland and likely will not last until 7 to Portland. By moving up Portland can get their guy and a better fit in Ivey. The move allows Portand to shift into this new complete rebuild stage. They will start Scott, Sharpe, Cody, Grant and Ayton with Ivey as a more suitable 6th man. Portland also sheds about $14M in the move.

Why for DET: Simons fits in right away as the off guard to a more ball dominant Cade. Simons provides instant offense and half court scoring capabilities, needed for Detroit to close games. He also spaces nicely in that slot. If Pistons can't land Reed at 5, the move makes more sense as in such a scenario Clingan is likely to fall to 7. Pistons then roll with a dominant center rotation as well.

PELICANS
Ivey, Brown Jr FOR McCollum, Lidell, 21st pick

Why for NOP: The Pels save about $23M in the trade and can swallow that Murphy upcoming extension more easily. Ivey can become their 6th man as the team is likely to move Ingram (regardless of trade concept) for another starter.

Why for DET: CJ can act as the coach on the floor and leader in lockerroom and help mold this youth into a more competitive spirit. He, like SImons, can play a bit more of his natural SG slot alongside Cade at the 1. Detroit also adds an underrated asset in EJ Lidell, who looked like an advanced stat stud in Ohio State only a few years ago - an 8%+ block rate combined with a 60% TS% on a 30% 3 point attempt rate. The Pistons already have a similar talent in Beef Stew, but EJ is worth a flyer as a back-end rotation talent. Finally, let's not sleep on the 21st pick. The Pistons can add a legit back up 5 here (Edey or Ware), a possible 6th man upside talent (Dillingham) pending on how the rest of the draft night shakes out.

KINGS
Ivey FOR Barnes, Huerter, 13th pick

Why for SAC: The Kings want to re-sign Monk badly and need to shed some serious salary to stay under the apron. The Pistons help them out and provide Ivey - who can become their new 6th man once Monk enters in as the starting SG.

Why for DET: This is my favorite of all concepts listed if possible. Yes, Detroit eats about 33% of their cap here, but they add two extremely useful rotation spacing vets who will immediately even out their roster. The 13th pick is also interesting as Detroit could see if Dillingham slips here for the taking.

KNICKS
Ivey FOR M. Robinson, 24th pick

Why for NYK: Knicks fans may roast this one, but listen to the logic. The team may need to compete with OKC to sign Hartenstein and worry about the added cap figures. This trade allows NYK to save $6M per year, for the next 2 years, enabling to more easily swallow a likely Hartenstein extension. Ivey was also heavily coveted by Knicks brass pre-draft a few years back. Ivey can fit in as the team's needed 6th man/ scoring option off the bench. The team also still has the 25th pick to draft a backup 5. Robinson also has been unreliable for the team in terms of his health.

Why for DET: The Pistons could use depth at the 5 and previously were interested in Robinson. Mitch and Duren can form a Dallas 2.0 scenario in Detroit. Both Centers are somewhat similar with their rebounding and shot blocking potential. Again, the 24th pick can provide Detroit another nice asset pending on the current make up of their roster.

[GQ Hot Dog]

Ausar Thompson better figure out how to be successful without the ball in his hands because he's not going to be a primary ball handler, creator or playmaker.

[Colbinii]

Ivey for Naz Reid

[Whole Truth]

PELICANS
Ivey, Brown Jr FOR McCollum, Lidell, 21st pick

Why for NOP: The Pels save about $23M in the trade and can swallow that Murphy upcoming extension more easily. Ivey can become their 6th man as the team is likely to move Ingram (regardless of trade concept) for another starter.

Why for DET: CJ can act as the coach on the floor and leader in lockerroom and help mold this youth into a more competitive spirit. He, like SImons, can play a bit more of his natural SG slot alongside Cade at the 1. Detroit also adds an underrated asset in EJ Lidell, who looked like an advanced stat stud in Ohio State only a few years ago - an 8%+ block rate combined with a 60% TS% on a 30% 3 point attempt rate. The Pistons already have a similar talent in Beef Stew, but EJ is worth a flyer as a back-end rotation talent. Finally, let's not sleep on the 21st pick. The Pistons can add a legit back up 5 here (Edey or Ware), a possible 6th man upside talent (Dillingham) pending on how the rest of the draft night shakes out.


KNICKS
Ivey FOR M. Robinson, 24th pick

Why for NYK: Knicks fans may roast this one, but listen to the logic. The team may need to compete with OKC to sign Hartenstein and worry about the added cap figures. This trade allows NYK to save $6M per year, for the next 2 years, enabling to more easily swallow a likely Hartenstein extension. Ivey was also heavily coveted by Knicks brass pre-draft a few years back. Ivey can fit in as the team's needed 6th man/ scoring option off the bench. The team also still has the 25th pick to draft a backup 5. Robinson also has been unreliable for the team in terms of his health.

Why for DET: The Pistons could use depth at the 5 and previously were interested in Robinson. Mitch and Duren can form a Dallas 2.0 scenario in Detroit. Both Centers are somewhat similar with their rebounding and shot blocking potential. Again, the 24th pick can provide Detroit another nice asset pending on the current make up of their roster.

There's 2 variations that work here for me. I'd do (Ivey, cap space) for (CJ, 21).

I'd also do a potential 3 team deal with NY
CJ, 21 to Detroit
M.Robinson, cap space, 24 to NO's.
Ivey to NY

[DetroitDon15]

Detroit is heading into a pivotal off-season for the franchise. They need to start thinking about players that can help elevate their current youth in play and start having the resemblance of a competitive ball club.

This process first starts with what youth to prioritize. It doesn't seem plausible to build around Cade, Ausar AND Ivey. All three need the ball in their hands to be successful, are not exactly ideal off ball targets, and need usage. Simply put, while each individually is talented and has shown growth, they don't seem to be in the best situation to grow together. We didn't even mention the 5th pick which could actually complicate that concept, if say another ball dominant usage talent is drafted.

Ivey is the odd man out of that group. He and Cade don't really shine together, and Ausar seems like the better long term prospect also given his defensive potential. The team needs to worry about a Killian Hayes sequel.

So, if Ivey is the best guy to move, what are the options?

What's been noted before:

WIZARDS
Ivey for Kispert and the 26th pick

Why for Washington: Ivey is worth this type of flyer for an expiring spacing wing and a late pick. Ivey can help form a very interesting long term core with Bilal, Deni and the incoming 2nd pick - whether Sarr, Clingan or Rissacher. He will have perimeter usage available to him to develop, especially if the franchise continues using Poole as a 6th man

Why for Detroit: The Pistons need spacing, always. Kispert is still 25 and can help spread the floor in units with Cade and Ausar. The 26th pick can be a nice backup 5 the Pistons will eventually need. This draft has plenty of them. Filipowski is an interesting choice there.

NETS
Ivey, Brown Jr FOR Cam Johnson, future PHX 1st

Why for BKN: The Nets need an injection of youth like your grandma. Ivey will be given more reign here with already existing spacing in Bridges, DFS and Cam Thomas. The Nets can also shed roughly $12M in cap in the move.

Why for Detroit. Cam is familiar with Monty and can serve as a small ball 4 in units with Thompson at the 3. Cam has been a bit injury prone, so the future PHX 1st is an interesting asset for Detroit to hang onto in their war chest.

SPURS
Ivey, Brown Jr FOR Keldon Johnson

Why for SAS: Ivey can fit immediately as the team's new PG. He can be a real interesting long term tandem with Victor.

Why for DET: Can Johnson be effective as a long term small ball 5? It may work IF Reed falls to 5 for Detroit. The team can have a more fun and sensible starting unit with better spacing and half court scoring. Johnson is only 24.

New Concepts:

BLAZERS
Ivey, Brown Jr, 5th pick FOR Simons 7th pick

Why for POR: Cody Williams is a perfect target for Portland and likely will not last until 7 to Portland. By moving up Portland can get their guy and a better fit in Ivey. The move allows Portand to shift into this new complete rebuild stage. They will start Scott, Sharpe, Cody, Grant and Ayton with Ivey as a more suitable 6th man. Portland also sheds about $14M in the move.

Why for DET: Simons fits in right away as the off guard to a more ball dominant Cade. Simons provides instant offense and half court scoring capabilities, needed for Detroit to close games. He also spaces nicely in that slot. If Pistons can't land Reed at 5, the move makes more sense as in such a scenario Clingan is likely to fall to 7. Pistons then roll with a dominant center rotation as well.

PELICANS
Ivey, Brown Jr FOR McCollum, Lidell, 21st pick

Why for NOP: The Pels save about $23M in the trade and can swallow that Murphy upcoming extension more easily. Ivey can become their 6th man as the team is likely to move Ingram (regardless of trade concept) for another starter.

Why for DET: CJ can act as the coach on the floor and leader in lockerroom and help mold this youth into a more competitive spirit. He, like SImons, can play a bit more of his natural SG slot alongside Cade at the 1. Detroit also adds an underrated asset in EJ Lidell, who looked like an advanced stat stud in Ohio State only a few years ago - an 8%+ block rate combined with a 60% TS% on a 30% 3 point attempt rate. The Pistons already have a similar talent in Beef Stew, but EJ is worth a flyer as a back-end rotation talent. Finally, let's not sleep on the 21st pick. The Pistons can add a legit back up 5 here (Edey or Ware), a possible 6th man upside talent (Dillingham) pending on how the rest of the draft night shakes out.

KINGS
Ivey FOR Barnes, Huerter, 13th pick

Why for SAC: The Kings want to re-sign Monk badly and need to shed some serious salary to stay under the apron. The Pistons help them out and provide Ivey - who can become their new 6th man once Monk enters in as the starting SG.

Why for DET: This is my favorite of all concepts listed if possible. Yes, Detroit eats about 33% of their cap here, but they add two extremely useful rotation spacing vets who will immediately even out their roster. The 13th pick is also interesting as Detroit could see if Dillingham slips here for the taking.

KNICKS
Ivey FOR M. Robinson, 24th pick

Why for NYK: Knicks fans may roast this one, but listen to the logic. The team may need to compete with OKC to sign Hartenstein and worry about the added cap figures. This trade allows NYK to save $6M per year, for the next 2 years, enabling to more easily swallow a likely Hartenstein extension. Ivey was also heavily coveted by Knicks brass pre-draft a few years back. Ivey can fit in as the team's needed 6th man/ scoring option off the bench. The team also still has the 25th pick to draft a backup 5. Robinson also has been unreliable for the team in terms of his health.

Why for DET: The Pistons could use depth at the 5 and previously were interested in Robinson. Mitch and Duren can form a Dallas 2.0 scenario in Detroit. Both Centers are somewhat similar with their rebounding and shot blocking potential. Again, the 24th pick can provide Detroit another nice asset pending on the current make up of their roster.

The only one of these deals that makes sense is the Pelicans deal. The others just force the Pistons to take on salary or lesser parts.

If the Pistons think that they can add front court talent in free agency, I’d be open to this Pelican deal. Pistons need shooters and CJ is a solid three point shooting guard which the Pistons need. I also suppose that leadership can help this roster as well.

I’m pretty much ready for a shake up that pushes the Pistons forward and not backwards talent wise.

[JRoy]

POR is not a good fit for Ivey

[Whole Truth]

The only one of these deals that makes sense is the Pelicans deal. The others just force the Pistons to take on salary or lesser parts.

If the Pistons think that they can add front court talent in free agency, I’d be open to this Pelican deal. Pistons need shooters and CJ is a solid three point shooting guard which the Pistons need. I also suppose that leadership can help this roster as well.

I’m pretty much ready for a shake up that pushes the Pistons forward and not backwards talent wise.

CJ shot 42% on 8 APG, he's an elite floor spacer. Problem for NO's is he's a poor defensive pairing with Zion.

As a NO's fan, I like the deal for both parties & would also recommend signing Jonas in free agency. He will help raise your teams floor as he did Memphis & NO's. Give a complimentary post option to Duren's rim running athleticism. He's a no fuss professional that a coach can bench for a rookie without making waves. A 13yr consistent 15/10/2 in 25 minutes on 60% efficiency.

[babyjax13]

The Wizards and Spurs deals make some sense to me, but the rest do not. In almost every case the receiving team has better players or guys they've recently drafted who both need the ball and are poor shooters.

[Chinook]

SPURS
Ivey, Brown Jr FOR Keldon Johnson

Why for SAS: Ivey can fit immediately as the team's new PG. He can be a real interesting long term tandem with Victor.

Why for DET: Can Johnson be effective as a long term small ball 5? It may work IF Reed falls to 5 for Detroit. The team can have a more fun and sensible starting unit with better spacing and half court scoring. Johnson is only 24.

I like Ivey, but he doesn't really make sense for the Spurs unless they go in a completely different direction in the draft. There are a bunch of PGs, and the Spurs would be irresponsible to let Ivey factor into them. Ivey's also not better than Tre Jones, so there's not nearly as much logic in bringing him in as some might assume. Maybe using the MLE to take him for free or a little compensation once the off-season gets going. But I wouldn't trade Johnson for him. Brown just makes the trade worse. The Spurs don't just need bodies at the forward spots. They have those.

And Keldon is not a small-ball five. He's 6-5. I do think he's a PF that folks want to play at SF because of how obvious his limitations at the four are. In general, he's a good swing forward who can be a sixth man with a number of archetypes. He's worth acquiring, but not if the idea is for him to hold down the paint.

[nomansland]

I admit I never watched him, but statistically this guy is not that impressive. Pretty low FG%'s for a shooting guard, subpar advanced stats, decent rebound numbers, ok assist numbers.

Yet some of these deals seem pretty aggressive for a guy like him. What am I missing?

[Whole Truth]

I admit I never watched him, but statistically this guy is not that impressive. Pretty low FG%'s for a shooting guard, subpar advanced stats, decent rebound numbers, ok assist numbers.

Yet some of these deals seem pretty aggressive for a guy like him. What am I missing?

Potential.

I don't think he will ultimately realize it but young potential like him + the cap space created for CJ makes it worth it for me. NO's can sign a free agent C by doing this trade.

In the Detroit cap space thread, a pick in the teens in the 25 draft, was the asking price. IMO #24 in this draft is closer to his production/potential but the cap space remains the most valuable target in the trade for me.

[Skybox]

I’d definitely want a shot at Ivey for ORL. ORL needs a Lead Guard who can score and distribute, but not necessarily a true PG because Paolo & Franz do so much on-ball. Obviously, his 3pt shooting, turnovers, & defense are a concern, but he’s 22. He’d drop right into a starting spot next to Suggs, who’s a very complementary 3&D guy (despite people wanting to see a PG). I’d offer Jett Howard and DEN 25 frp. Howard looks to be, at least, an elite spot-up shooter with a lightning-quick release, and maybe more. ORL hid him in the G-League for seasoning, but the FO seems very encouraged with what he’ll bring next year.

If DET drafts Clingan, I’d want Duren too…he’s been disappointing defensively, but I think Mosley could turn him into something simple & fierce. Wendell Carter would be a solid big next to Clingan, spreading the floor, switching defensively, and covering C when Clingan sits. Carter is pretty solid all-around and only 25

For both, I’d offer Jett, Carter, ORL 26 frp (top 8 protected)…I’d happily sub in a future frp for either player but I imagine DET (here on RealGM at least) would prefer players.

[DetroitDon15]

I’d definitely want a shot at Ivey for ORL. ORL needs a Lead Guard who can score and distribute, but not necessarily a true PG because Paolo & Franz do so much on-ball. Obviously, his 3pt shooting, turnovers, & defense are a concern, but he’s 22. He’d drop right into a starting spot next to Suggs, who’s a very complementary 3&D guy (despite people wanting to see a PG). I’d offer Jett Howard and DEN 25 frp. Howard looks to be, at least, an elite spot-up shooter with a lightning-quick release, and maybe more. ORL hid him in the G-League for seasoning, but the FO seems very encouraged with what he’ll bring next year.

If DET drafts Clingan, I’d want Duren too…he’s been disappointing defensively, but I think Mosley could turn him into something simple & fierce. Wendell Carter would be a solid big next to Clingan, spreading the floor, switching defensively, and covering C when Clingan sits. Carter is pretty solid all-around and only 25

For both, I’d offer Jett, Carter, ORL 26 frp (top 8 protected)…I’d happily sub in a future frp for either player but I imagine DET (here on RealGM at least) would prefer players.

I’d have no interest from a Detroit stand point. This deal doesn’t improve the roster (helping it take a step forward). I view Carter Jr too similar to Stewart. Jett Howard doesn’t do anything from a Pistons perspective but get stuck behind Sasser, Cade and Grimes. A future protected pick doesn’t help the Pistons turn around either. Giving up two young solid to good players on rookie deals in this type of deal makes zero sense for Detroit.

[nate33]

WIZARDS
Ivey for Kispert and the 26th pick

Why for Washington: Ivey is worth this type of flyer for an expiring spacing wing and a late pick. Ivey can help form a very interesting long term core with Bilal, Deni and the incoming 2nd pick - whether Sarr, Clingan or Rissacher. He will have perimeter usage available to him to develop, especially if the franchise continues using Poole as a 6th man

Why for Detroit: The Pistons need spacing, always. Kispert is still 25 and can help spread the floor in units with Cade and Ausar. The 26th pick can be a nice backup 5 the Pistons will eventually need. This draft has plenty of them. Filipowski is an interesting choice there.

This trade concept certainly makes a lot of sense for both teams in terms of balancing out their rosters. I really like Kispert and think he is currently a better player so I don't know if I'd do this. But I have to admit it's tempting because Ivey is 3 years younger and we really haven't seen him operate in a situation where he has adequate spacing around him. It's a gamble on Ivey's upside versus the certainty that Kispert is a quality 6th/7th man who will be additive to a good team.

[eitanr]

Appreciate all feedback.

What are thoughts on the Kings trade? That idea gives Detroit more options pending who they draft. It’s the most flexible option


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[eitanr]

The other items I’ll note is going after higher usage perimeter talents (ie CJ) makes sense IF Detroit doesn’t use the 5th pick on a usage guy. Thompson isn’t a second usage guy in a unit, maybe he’s a 3rd

If the team adds Reed or Clingan at 5, I could see CJ fitting in. If the team adds Cody Williams. The Kings route is interesting.


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[DetroitDon15]

Appreciate all feedback.

What are thoughts on the Kings trade? That idea gives Detroit more options pending who they draft. It’s the most flexible option


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Kings trade is probably the worst of all. I have Ivey’s value higher than 13. Additionally, the players being offered (Barnes & Huerter) have negative value for the Pistons. If the Kings wanted to salary dump them with 13 for a future 55 protected second, it might work. The Pistons could easily sign those type of players (Barnes/Huerter type) in FA without giving away Ivey.

[tmorgan]

I admit I never watched him, but statistically this guy is not that impressive. Pretty low FG%'s for a shooting guard, subpar advanced stats, decent rebound numbers, ok assist numbers.

Yet some of these deals seem pretty aggressive for a guy like him. What am I missing?

You want the real answer?

He’s really, REALLY fast with the ball, and a great athlete in general.

He doean’t play smart NBA level basketball, though, particularly on defense. He should be much better than he is, and because Detroit has been a train wreck, people think they can mold him into a bigger De’Aaron Fox. Maybe they can.

[Whole Truth]

I admit I never watched him, but statistically this guy is not that impressive. Pretty low FG%'s for a shooting guard, subpar advanced stats, decent rebound numbers, ok assist numbers.

Yet some of these deals seem pretty aggressive for a guy like him. What am I missing?

You want the real answer?

He’s really, REALLY fast with the ball, and a great athlete in general.

He doean’t play smart NBA level basketball, though, particularly on defense. He should be much better than he is, and because Detroit has been a train wreck, people think they can mold him into a bigger De’Aaron Fox. Maybe they can.

IMO the hectic play could be him doing to much to prove himself for more minutes where he's competing with other young talent.

[theBigLip]

Appreciate all feedback.

What are thoughts on the Kings trade? That idea gives Detroit more options pending who they draft. It’s the most flexible option

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good thread and trade proposals. Not that I want to trade Ivey but a lot of work laying out this many trade possibilities.