NBA FINALS, Gm 5 – Mavericks (1) @ Celtics (3) – 8:30PM, Mon, June 17, 2024

[Bostondave]

These Celtics should know that it's entirely possible to come back from 3-0 and tie it up 3-3. They almost became the first team to actually come back from 3-0 if not for that ankle sprain. This game should not be another repeat of Game 4. As I said in the post game thread, Game 5 will show us if this team is made of metal or jello. Lose this game and they may indeed make history and not in a good way.

There comes a time where you're really hungry and you're 2 options are metal or jello.

Hard to believe you would eat metal.

Point is jello can win championships.

Good for you. I don't think jello can cut it.

EDIT: Full disclosure - I've lost all confidence in Tatum (I'm trying my darndest to see all the other things he's contributing, but to my eyes he has regressed in scoring, especially in shooting the 3 ball), and I thought JB was turning it around and stepping up as the team's Alpha, but goes and lays a dud in Game 4. For once I'd like to be proven wrong about these guys. Just once.

these two posts are good. Mainly because they're not stupid rah-rah type posts. I can't say I'm disappointed in Tatum because I've measured him. He's skilled in some areas but lacking in what you need in your number 1. Heart, desire, will to win. No doubt he has them but he doesn't implement them on court. When the chips are down, or even not down but you need that leader to carry the team, that assassin, that killer, he falls flat. He vanishes, disappears.

I really thought the celtics had turned a corner but the last 5 qtrs of basketball shows me they havent.Tatum is one of the weakest "superstars" I have ever seen in over 40 years of watching Ball. He and the celtics are great going downhill. Punching down. But that's about it.

My bigger disappointment might be Brown. Who I have always thought was tougher, stronger and had more heart. He can and should be able to carry the boys when Tatum invariably vanishes, but he's not.

These boys should get the ring but I will ever be mindful that this team as constituted isn't tough, even with the confetti and parades there's a dark cloud over my celtics soul. Something isn't quite right.

[Parliament10]

Yeah basically. KPs absence is problematic because now the Mavs can play on their terms. Luka is playing defense now. Mavs have figured out how to implement the one-man zone with Lively and are able to execute the pre-switch perfectly, if it comes to it. They are leaving the weak side corner semi-open but are able to obscure the passing lanes with Lively in the paint. Their intuition with rotations looked spot on.

We now can’t abuse them schematically. Our best scorers will have to outscore their best players and make tough shots. Thats now the situation.

At a game by game basis, that’s a losing proposition. Each game is probably about 75-25, or 70-30 in favor of the Mavs on average. So in my opinion, we’re still about 65-35 favorites to win the series, but if we lose game 5 it’s time to hit the panic button.


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Miami using this strategy is 8-11 over last 3 post seasons. GSW was 4-2. So your saying The Mavs using this strategy have a 35% of doing it for 3 more games?

There are more than 1 way to win. To me we need to create some turnovers and score in transition. Secure rebounds and push tempo. If we can do that we win. I also think we can just have a hot shooting night too.

Yeah you’re right. I forgot that the Heat had Luka Doncic and Kyrie this postseason.

I’m not saying they will completely nullify Boston offensively. But it’s enough to contain Boston’s offense and give their duo a strong chance of outscoring Boston.


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Haven't the Mavs 2 Stars outscored the Celtics Duo, in just about every Game?
Our Team is better than there's.

[KingofTheClay]

There comes a time where you're really hungry and you're 2 options are metal or jello.

Hard to believe you would eat metal.

Point is jello can win championships.

Good for you. I don't think jello can cut it.

EDIT: Full disclosure - I've lost all confidence in Tatum (I'm trying my darndest to see all the other things he's contributing, but to my eyes he has regressed in scoring, especially in shooting the 3 ball), and I thought JB was turning it around and stepping up as the team's Alpha, but goes and lays a dud in Game 4. For once I'd like to be proven wrong about these guys. Just once.

these two posts are good. Mainly because they're not stupid rah-rah type posts. I can't say I'm disappointed in Tatum because I've measured him. He's skilled in some areas but lacking in what you need in your number 1. Heart, desire, will to win. No doubt he has them but he doesn't implement them on court. When the chips are down, or even not down but you need that leader to carry the team, that assassin, that killer, he falls flat. He vanishes, disappears.

I really thought the celtics had turned a corner but the last 5 qtrs of basketball shows me they havent.Tatum is one of the weakest "superstars" I have ever seen in over 40 years of watching Ball. He and the celtics are great going downhill. Punching down. But that's about it.

My bigger disappointment might be Brown. Who I have always thought was tougher, stronger and had more heart. He can and should be able to carry the boys when Tatum invariably vanishes, but he's not.

These boys should get the ring but I will ever be mindful that this team as constituted isn't tough, even with the confetti and parades there's a dark cloud over my celtics soul. Something isn't quite right.

You’re spot on with Tatum but wrong about Brown.

Outplayed Luka in g1 and g3. Went mono e mono down the stretch by himself and took the Mavs to town.

Yeah, probably can’t get you 40 points in a finals game but he was never a first option. Handle and vision improved but it’s not quite good enough to be that. Certainly an elite second option.


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[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

Gotta admit, it's a weird-ass release. You already knew it was gonna get blocked by Lively even after he created space.

[KingofTheClay]

Miami using this strategy is 8-11 over last 3 post seasons. GSW was 4-2. So your saying The Mavs using this strategy have a 35% of doing it for 3 more games?

There are more than 1 way to win. To me we need to create some turnovers and score in transition. Secure rebounds and push tempo. If we can do that we win. I also think we can just have a hot shooting night too.

Yeah you’re right. I forgot that the Heat had Luka Doncic and Kyrie this postseason.

I’m not saying they will completely nullify Boston offensively. But it’s enough to contain Boston’s offense and give their duo a strong chance of outscoring Boston.


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Haven't the Mavs 2 Stars outscored the Celtics Duo, in just about every Game?
Our Team is better than there's.

Yeah when Porzingis was off the court.

They’ve outscored us soundly whenever he has not played.


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[Parliament10]

Yeah you’re right. I forgot that the Heat had Luka Doncic and Kyrie this postseason.

I’m not saying they will completely nullify Boston offensively. But it’s enough to contain Boston’s offense and give their duo a strong chance of outscoring Boston.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Haven't the Mavs 2 Stars outscored the Celtics Duo, in just about every Game?
Our Team is better than there's.

Yeah when Porzingis was off the court.

They’ve outscored us soundly whenever he has not played.


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Let me make this Crystal Clear. -- Mods have a Record of everything you’ve done on RealGM.
So, we Know that you hate Tatum, and that you’ve made Celtics-baiting and Tatum-hating Threads, on the GB.

So keep it clean, and there wont be any trouble. OK?

~ Parl

[zoyathedestroya]

G1: Celtics were +5 with KP off the floor.
G2: Celtics were -5 with KP off the floor.
G3: Celtics were +7 with KP off the floor.
G4: Celtics were -38 with KP off the floor.

It's 2-2 without KP. Just need a similar performance to G3 if KP can't play. I think it boils down to our rebounding and transition defense although poor offense sometimes leads to breakdown in the latter.

[Geech]

I hope that Tatum has corrected his ball spinning (or too much English) on layups. It's something he did in previous years, fixed it this season and started doing it again this series. Last game was better.

[TheMartian]

Good for you. I don't think jello can cut it.

EDIT: Full disclosure - I've lost all confidence in Tatum (I'm trying my darndest to see all the other things he's contributing, but to my eyes he has regressed in scoring, especially in shooting the 3 ball), and I thought JB was turning it around and stepping up as the team's Alpha, but goes and lays a dud in Game 4. For once I'd like to be proven wrong about these guys. Just once.

these two posts are good. Mainly because they're not stupid rah-rah type posts. I can't say I'm disappointed in Tatum because I've measured him. He's skilled in some areas but lacking in what you need in your number 1. Heart, desire, will to win. No doubt he has them but he doesn't implement them on court. When the chips are down, or even not down but you need that leader to carry the team, that assassin, that killer, he falls flat. He vanishes, disappears.

I really thought the celtics had turned a corner but the last 5 qtrs of basketball shows me they havent.Tatum is one of the weakest "superstars" I have ever seen in over 40 years of watching Ball. He and the celtics are great going downhill. Punching down. But that's about it.

My bigger disappointment might be Brown. Who I have always thought was tougher, stronger and had more heart. He can and should be able to carry the boys when Tatum invariably vanishes, but he's not.

These boys should get the ring but I will ever be mindful that this team as constituted isn't tough, even with the confetti and parades there's a dark cloud over my celtics soul. Something isn't quite right.

You’re spot on with Tatum but wrong about Brown.

Outplayed Luka in g1 and g3. Went mono e mono down the stretch by himself and took the Mavs to town.

Yeah, probably can’t get you 40 points in a finals game but he was never a first option. Handle and vision improved but it’s not quite good enough to be that. Certainly an elite second option.


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Is he wrong about Brown though? I really thought Brown turned the corner especially in the ECF and in the first few Finals games, but he reverted back to his old self in Game 4.

[robdog_5]

Boston dominated Mavs game 3 without Porzingas then stopped playing. Game 4 Dalls role players shot at an unreal and unsustainable clip.

[zoyathedestroya]

First Finals closeout game at home since June 17, 2008?

Read on Twitter

[Fierce1]

Even superstars enter their prime at age 27 or 28.

Just look at the 26-year old Jaylen Brown of the 2023 ECF Game 7, against Miami, and compare that to the 27-year old JB this season.

One year made a big difference.

What some of the Cs fans are not seeing is JT is transitioning from a SF to a PF.

When JT completes the transition in 1 or 2 seasons, that will be the final product.

[Fierce1]

G1: Celtics were +5 with KP off the floor.
G2: Celtics were -5 with KP off the floor.
G3: Celtics were +7 with KP off the floor.
G4: Celtics were -38 with KP off the floor.

It's 2-2 without KP. Just need a similar performance to G3 if KP can't play. I think it boils down to our rebounding and transition defense although poor offense sometimes leads to breakdown in the latter.

True.

Rebounding has been a problem the last 3 games.

And why the Cs lost by 38 in Game 4?

Cs got outrebounded 52-31.

[shackles10]

These Celtics should know that it's entirely possible to come back from 3-0 and tie it up 3-3. They almost became the first team to actually come back from 3-0 if not for that ankle sprain. This game should not be another repeat of Game 4. As I said in the post game thread, Game 5 will show us if this team is made of metal or jello. Lose this game and they may indeed make history and not in a good way.

There comes a time where you're really hungry and you're 2 options are metal or jello.

Hard to believe you would eat metal.

Point is jello can win championships.

[KingofTheClay]

these two posts are good. Mainly because they're not stupid rah-rah type posts. I can't say I'm disappointed in Tatum because I've measured him. He's skilled in some areas but lacking in what you need in your number 1. Heart, desire, will to win. No doubt he has them but he doesn't implement them on court. When the chips are down, or even not down but you need that leader to carry the team, that assassin, that killer, he falls flat. He vanishes, disappears.

I really thought the celtics had turned a corner but the last 5 qtrs of basketball shows me they havent.Tatum is one of the weakest "superstars" I have ever seen in over 40 years of watching Ball. He and the celtics are great going downhill. Punching down. But that's about it.

My bigger disappointment might be Brown. Who I have always thought was tougher, stronger and had more heart. He can and should be able to carry the boys when Tatum invariably vanishes, but he's not.

These boys should get the ring but I will ever be mindful that this team as constituted isn't tough, even with the confetti and parades there's a dark cloud over my celtics soul. Something isn't quite right.

You’re spot on with Tatum but wrong about Brown.

Outplayed Luka in g1 and g3. Went mono e mono down the stretch by himself and took the Mavs to town.

Yeah, probably can’t get you 40 points in a finals game but he was never a first option. Handle and vision improved but it’s not quite good enough to be that. Certainly an elite second option.


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Is he wrong about Brown though? I really thought Brown turned the corner especially in the ECF and in the first few Finals games, but he reverted back to his old self in Game 4.

Brown was phenomenal down the stretch/in the clutch against Indy and has been atleast good, sometimes phenomenal down the stretch against Dallas. Firmly established himself as our alpha and #1 option.

Yeah he laid an egg in game 4 but the blame was communal. He could definitely have played better but I suppose that’s only one poor game in the last 8 he’s played. I’ll wholeheartedly give him a pass.


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[Fencer reregistered]

First Finals closeout game at home since June 17, 2008?

Read on Twitter

2010 was 2-3-2?

[zoyathedestroya]

First Finals closeout game at home since June 17, 2008?

Read on Twitter

2010 was 2-3-2?

Yeah. Then they went back to 2-2-1-1-1 in 2014.

[Fierce1]

Worst case scenario is we're all posting in the Game 7 thread 1 week from now.

[TheMartian]

Worst case scenario is we're all posting in the Game 7 thread 1 week from now.

Worst case scenario is we're all posting on the post game AOS thread after the C's lose game 7. THAT's the real worst case scenario.

[playa-hater]

Anyone thinking Tatum is gonna explode is probably talking through their heart and not their mind.. Tatum has hardly shot over 50% for any game in these playoffs.. His shot is struggling from deep And his shot selection has not been Great.. And the fact that Dallas is giving him extra attention and making it harder for him to get it going.

What I am hoping for is Tatum makes sound decisions with the ball. He can lead this team with his facilitation just as important as any scoring he could do. I really hope he doesn't get into hero mode as that could be the downfall late in the game.. Boston has a very balanced team and we should use that at all points in the game..

And the idea that Luka is playing defense now is laughable.. Making a few plays does not count as he is Now Playing defense.. For whatever reason Boston went away from attacking him on a regular basis and that was Border line Asinine..

My final thoughts tonight is also as much as I love PP this just is not the match up for him.. Dallas with Luka at point guard are one of the bigger teams in the league .. Combine that with 2 solid vertical leaping centers he needs to play much less.

And if KP does not play Joe cannot be afraid to play both al and X at the same time.. Especially with our rebounding issues...