Gauging Jaden Ivey's Trade Value - Which Concepts Work?

[eitanr]

Ivey to the Jazz for Taylor Hendricks and Kenny Lofton Jr

Hendricks is a low ceiling player, but already looks to be at worst a quality wing player who can hit 3's.

Jazz need to begin rebuilding and don't have a lot of intriguing young talent. Ivey still has a very high ceiling and would get plenty of opportunity on a rebuilding Jazz team with no expectations to win.

Kenny Lofton Jr would be a waste of a roster spot, and negative value to Detroit.

Utah alread have a much better version of Ivey in Collin Sexton - 0 defense, offensive gifted undersized SG that can score a bunch, they also have Clarkson, but they should get rid of him.

It makes no sense for Utah, I don't hate an Ivey for Hendricks (in theory he can defend and shoot and plays a position of need) swap for Detroit. I would explore other possibilities first.

FWIW

Ivey for Mitchell Robinson and #24 (I would rather have our pick back tho)
Ivey for Cam Johnson and a late 1st
Ivey for Naz Reid (I would add value to Ivey to make it happen)
Ivey for Taylor Hendricks

Are deals that were mentioned in this thread and I would pull the trigger, not in that order.

How about Ivey for Jarace Walker?

[Kalamazoo317]

I don't think Jarace has shown enough as a shooter

[CraftylikeaFox]

Ivey to the Jazz for Taylor Hendricks and Kenny Lofton Jr

Hendricks is a low ceiling player, but already looks to be at worst a quality wing player who can hit 3's.

Jazz need to begin rebuilding and don't have a lot of intriguing young talent. Ivey still has a very high ceiling and would get plenty of opportunity on a rebuilding Jazz team with no expectations to win.

Kenny Lofton Jr would be a waste of a roster spot, and negative value to Detroit.

Utah alread have a much better version of Ivey in Collin Sexton - 0 defense, offensive gifted undersized SG that can score a bunch, they also have Clarkson, but they should get rid of him.

It makes no sense for Utah, I don't hate an Ivey for Hendricks (in theory he can defend and shoot and plays a position of need) swap for Detroit. I would explore other possibilities first.

FWIW

Ivey for Mitchell Robinson and #24 (I would rather have our pick back tho)
Ivey for Cam Johnson and a late 1st
Ivey for Naz Reid (I would add value to Ivey to make it happen)
Ivey for Taylor Hendricks

Are deals that were mentioned in this thread and I would pull the trigger, not in that order.

Lofton is to make salaries work, he’d be waived immediately. It’s Ivey for Hendricks. I wouldn’t expect the Jazz would want to do this, but I’m still a big believer in Ivey. He could be special if given the right environment to grow in and I would want my team to take a chance on him if I was a rebuilding team without a lead guard.

[vege]

Ivey to the Jazz for Taylor Hendricks and Kenny Lofton Jr

Hendricks is a low ceiling player, but already looks to be at worst a quality wing player who can hit 3's.

Jazz need to begin rebuilding and don't have a lot of intriguing young talent. Ivey still has a very high ceiling and would get plenty of opportunity on a rebuilding Jazz team with no expectations to win.

Kenny Lofton Jr would be a waste of a roster spot, and negative value to Detroit.

Utah alread have a much better version of Ivey in Collin Sexton - 0 defense, offensive gifted undersized SG that can score a bunch, they also have Clarkson, but they should get rid of him.

It makes no sense for Utah, I don't hate an Ivey for Hendricks (in theory he can defend and shoot and plays a position of need) swap for Detroit. I would explore other possibilities first.

FWIW

Ivey for Mitchell Robinson and #24 (I would rather have our pick back tho)
Ivey for Cam Johnson and a late 1st
Ivey for Naz Reid (I would add value to Ivey to make it happen)
Ivey for Taylor Hendricks

Are deals that were mentioned in this thread and I would pull the trigger, not in that order.

Lofton is to make salaries work, he’d be waived immediately. It’s Ivey for Hendricks. I wouldn’t expect the Jazz would want to do this, but I’m still a big believer in Ivey. He could be special if given the right environment to grow in and I would want my team to take a chance on him if I was a rebuilding team without a lead guard.

He doesn't make any sense for Utah. He wouldn't get minutes there because he can't share the court with Collins who's a vastly superior player despite of having most of the same weaknesses.

[CraftylikeaFox]

Kenny Lofton Jr would be a waste of a roster spot, and negative value to Detroit.

Utah alread have a much better version of Ivey in Collin Sexton - 0 defense, offensive gifted undersized SG that can score a bunch, they also have Clarkson, but they should get rid of him.

It makes no sense for Utah, I don't hate an Ivey for Hendricks (in theory he can defend and shoot and plays a position of need) swap for Detroit. I would explore other possibilities first.

FWIW

Ivey for Mitchell Robinson and #24 (I would rather have our pick back tho)
Ivey for Cam Johnson and a late 1st
Ivey for Naz Reid (I would add value to Ivey to make it happen)
Ivey for Taylor Hendricks

Are deals that were mentioned in this thread and I would pull the trigger, not in that order.

Lofton is to make salaries work, he’d be waived immediately. It’s Ivey for Hendricks. I wouldn’t expect the Jazz would want to do this, but I’m still a big believer in Ivey. He could be special if given the right environment to grow in and I would want my team to take a chance on him if I was a rebuilding team without a lead guard.

He doesn't make any sense for Utah. He wouldn't get minutes there because he can't share the court with Collins who's a vastly superior player despite of having most of the same weaknesses.

I'm just assuming Jazz trade their starters (Collins, Sexton, Clarkson, and possibly Markkanen) to full on rebuild. If they want to double down and continue on their current path then it obviously doesn't make sense

[R-DAWG]

The Wizards and Spurs deals make some sense to me, but the rest do not. In almost every case the receiving team has better players or guys they've recently drafted who both need the ball and are poor shooters.

The Knicks trade makes sense (assuming I-Hart resigns). The Knicks need another guy who can create offensive besides Brunson and Ivey fits nicely as a combo guard off the bench sharing the backcourt with McBride who also has the size to play with Brunson at times.

As a guy with 3 years of experience his combination of upside and ability to contribute right away is higher than anyone NY can draft at 24

[vege]

The Wizards and Spurs deals make some sense to me, but the rest do not. In almost every case the receiving team has better players or guys they've recently drafted who both need the ball and are poor shooters.

The Knicks trade makes sense (assuming I-Hart resigns). The Knicks need another guy who can create offensive besides Brunson and Ivey fits nicely as a combo guard off the bench sharing the backcourt with McBride who also has the size to play with Brunson at times.

As a guy with 3 years of experience his combination of upside and ability to contribute right away is higher than anyone NY can draft at 24

Thibs would kill Ivey because of how dumb he is on defense.

[vege]

Ivey to the Jazz for Taylor Hendricks and Kenny Lofton Jr

Hendricks is a low ceiling player, but already looks to be at worst a quality wing player who can hit 3's.

Jazz need to begin rebuilding and don't have a lot of intriguing young talent. Ivey still has a very high ceiling and would get plenty of opportunity on a rebuilding Jazz team with no expectations to win.

Kenny Lofton Jr would be a waste of a roster spot, and negative value to Detroit.

Utah alread have a much better version of Ivey in Collin Sexton - 0 defense, offensive gifted undersized SG that can score a bunch, they also have Clarkson, but they should get rid of him.

It makes no sense for Utah, I don't hate an Ivey for Hendricks (in theory he can defend and shoot and plays a position of need) swap for Detroit. I would explore other possibilities first.

FWIW

Ivey for Mitchell Robinson and #24 (I would rather have our pick back tho)
Ivey for Cam Johnson and a late 1st
Ivey for Naz Reid (I would add value to Ivey to make it happen)
Ivey for Taylor Hendricks

Are deals that were mentioned in this thread and I would pull the trigger, not in that order.

How about Ivey for Jarace Walker?

I theory maybe, but he would need to show more than what he did and Indiana is likely the worst landing spot for Ivey.

[R-DAWG]

The Wizards and Spurs deals make some sense to me, but the rest do not. In almost every case the receiving team has better players or guys they've recently drafted who both need the ball and are poor shooters.

The Knicks trade makes sense (assuming I-Hart resigns). The Knicks need another guy who can create offensive besides Brunson and Ivey fits nicely as a combo guard off the bench sharing the backcourt with McBride who also has the size to play with Brunson at times.

As a guy with 3 years of experience his combination of upside and ability to contribute right away is higher than anyone NY can draft at 24

Thibs would kill Ivey because of how dumb he is on defense.

Or being in a reduced role on a veteran team will help Ivey become a better defensive player.

While Ivey has had a disappointing start to his career, especially last season, so much of a young players development is based on the situation. And Ivey was in a difficult situation

[oldncreaky]

The Knicks trade makes sense (assuming I-Hart resigns). The Knicks need another guy who can create offensive besides Brunson and Ivey fits nicely as a combo guard off the bench sharing the backcourt with McBride who also has the size to play with Brunson at times.

As a guy with 3 years of experience his combination of upside and ability to contribute right away is higher than anyone NY can draft at 24

Thibs would kill Ivey because of how dumb he is on defense.

Or being in a reduced role on a veteran team will help Ivey become a better defensive player.

While Ivey has had a disappointing start to his career, especially last season, so much of a young players development is based on the situation. And Ivey was in a difficult situation

I'm with vege -- I've seen much better players than Ivey buried on the bench by Thibs in his various coaching stops

If I'm NYK, I'm looking for guys who can contribute now, not kids who might grow into the role -- and right now, McBride is a far better and more productive guard than Ivey. I'd be shocked if NYK was interested.

[R-DAWG]

Thibs would kill Ivey because of how dumb he is on defense.

Or being in a reduced role on a veteran team will help Ivey become a better defensive player.

While Ivey has had a disappointing start to his career, especially last season, so much of a young players development is based on the situation. And Ivey was in a difficult situation

I'm with vege -- I've seen much better players than Ivey buried on the bench by Thibs in his various coaching stops

If I'm NYK, I'm looking for guys who can contribute now, not kids who might grow into the role -- and right now, McBride is a far better and more productive guard than Ivey. I'd be shocked if NYK was interested.

McBride is an undersized SG, not a point guard. Weather it's Ivey or not, NY needs a playmaker off the bench.

[mg]

Utah is in a real jam right now with their roster. They likely can't get maximum return for an expiring Lauri, so at the end of the day they probably renegotiate/extend him and play a ton of young kids next season after trading off their remaining veteran players. Ivey/Keyonte backcourt might not be ideal but at least they can try to develop and unlock Ivey's potential. They also have more of a runway for losing games than Detroit who needs to start building around Cade. Keyonte's best skill is shooting 3's off the dribble so that could help open up the floor for Ivey to drive. At least that is a better fit than Ivey/Cade.

This trade would make sense for both teams:
To Utah: Ivey, Grimes, #5, #42
To Detroit: Sexton, Hendricks, #10

Unfortunately this draft is pretty flat so Utah isn't getting a ton of value moving up. Grimes is a player they were apparently chasing before the deadline. Ivey has a ton of potential but obviously won't reach it playing next to Cade. As for the Pistons both Sexton and Hendricks are excellent at catch and shoot 3's which should be a nice fit next to Cade. Hendricks is a more switchy defender than any of their other bigs and can defend out to the perimeter. Sexton can be a secondary ballhandler and unlike Ivey is already a very efficient offensive player. Both teams will have a ton of capspace this summer to consummate such a deal.

[oldncreaky]

Or being in a reduced role on a veteran team will help Ivey become a better defensive player.

While Ivey has had a disappointing start to his career, especially last season, so much of a young players development is based on the situation. And Ivey was in a difficult situation

I'm with vege -- I've seen much better players than Ivey buried on the bench by Thibs in his various coaching stops

If I'm NYK, I'm looking for guys who can contribute now, not kids who might grow into the role -- and right now, McBride is a far better and more productive guard than Ivey. I'd be shocked if NYK was interested.

McBride is an undersized SG, not a point guard. Weather it's Ivey or not, NY needs a playmaker off the bench.

Regardless of the label (SG, PG, combo G) Ivey is far behind McBride in being able to run a bench group.

Trust me, I really wish it wasn't so -- because Detroit could really use another creator too

[vege]

Utah is in a real jam right now with their roster. They likely can't get maximum return for an expiring Lauri, so at the end of the day they probably renegotiate/extend him and play a ton of young kids next season after trading off their remaining veteran players. Ivey/Keyonte backcourt might not be ideal but at least they can try to develop and unlock Ivey's potential. They also have more of a runway for losing games than Detroit who needs to start building around Cade. Keyonte's best skill is shooting 3's off the dribble so that could help open up the floor for Ivey to drive. At least that is a better fit than Ivey/Cade.

This trade would make sense for both teams:
To Utah: Ivey, Grimes, #5, #42
To Detroit: Sexton, Hendricks, #10

Unfortunately this draft is pretty flat so Utah isn't getting a ton of value moving up. Grimes is a player they were apparently chasing before the deadline. Ivey has a ton of potential but obviously won't reach it playing next to Cade. As for the Pistons both Sexton and Hendricks are excellent at catch and shoot 3's which should be a nice fit next to Cade. Hendricks is a more switchy defender than any of their other bigs and can defend out to the perimeter. Sexton can be a secondary ballhandler and unlike Ivey is already a very efficient offensive player. Both teams will have a ton of capspace this summer to consummate such a deal.

Detroit should have 0 interest in Sexton. This trade idea is laughable for Detroit.

[Kalamazoo317]

Agreed, no interest in Sexton. If we're putting Ivey and the #5 and Grimes on the table, we better be getting a starting level 3 and D wing back at minimum.

[A_dub06]

Why is everyone so keen to throw Ivey in deals over Duren? If Ivey increases his 3pt % to close to 40% his value sky rockets which I think is far easier to achieve than Duren actually learning defensive instincts/awareness and becoming a plus in that area.


Right now Ivey’s value is really low, another dud season from him won’t change his “value”. Duren on the other hand still holds intrigue due to his age but another season where he’s often injured and plays bad defence will tank his value. Given where the leagues st and where it’s heading, we should be prioritising finding a stretch Center that can defend the rim. All the leagues best offenses have one and not having one limits lineup possibility and scoring potential.

Ivey gets way too much criticism when you consider the treatment Duren gets despite his poor play in the areas we actually need.

[7r5ur]

Utah is in a real jam right now with their roster. They likely can't get maximum return for an expiring Lauri, so at the end of the day they probably renegotiate/extend him and play a ton of young kids next season after trading off their remaining veteran players. Ivey/Keyonte backcourt might not be ideal but at least they can try to develop and unlock Ivey's potential. They also have more of a runway for losing games than Detroit who needs to start building around Cade. Keyonte's best skill is shooting 3's off the dribble so that could help open up the floor for Ivey to drive. At least that is a better fit than Ivey/Cade.

This trade would make sense for both teams:
To Utah: Ivey, Grimes, #5, #42
To Detroit: Sexton, Hendricks, #10

Unfortunately this draft is pretty flat so Utah isn't getting a ton of value moving up. Grimes is a player they were apparently chasing before the deadline. Ivey has a ton of potential but obviously won't reach it playing next to Cade. As for the Pistons both Sexton and Hendricks are excellent at catch and shoot 3's which should be a nice fit next to Cade. Hendricks is a more switchy defender than any of their other bigs and can defend out to the perimeter. Sexton can be a secondary ballhandler and unlike Ivey is already a very efficient offensive player. Both teams will have a ton of capspace this summer to consummate such a deal.

If the Pistons are trading for Sexton, they might as well just keep Ivey. The whole point would be to replace him with a guard that shoots AND defends next to Cade. If they can't do that, there's no point in selling low on post-Monty Ivey. Definitely not moving down in the draft and giving Grimes (the only guard in the deal that has shown an ability to do both) in the process.

Simply put, I don't want Sexton.

Something more simple for Ivey/Hendricks would be a better place to start (unsure about the value adds there), though I also don't really see Ivey/Keyonte as workable for Utah anyways, which makes Utah a difficult trade partner.

I see the appeal of Ivey for Naz Reid for the Pistons just on fit, and would probably do that, but I don't think you bring in Ivey to play some smaller role on a contender at the cost of a key contributor. I think Ivey needs to go to a bad team where he can get on-ball reps that Monty was hesitant to give, but he looked good at later in his rookie season.

WAS would be a good landing spot for him, but I'm not interested in a swap to #2 at the cost of Ivey, and nothing on the roster intrigues me outside of Deni, who they aren't going to offer.

SAS would be a spot he'd thrive in (and Wemby likes him), but the Spurs have 2 high picks in a guard heavy draft, so...

I still think the Pistons best course of action on Ivey is to bring him back with a new coach that has an interest in actually coaching these players and using them properly to rehab his value, but that seems less and less likely by the day.

[Kalamazoo317]

Why is everyone so keen to throw Ivey in deals over Duren? If Ivey increases his 3pt % to close to 40% his value sky rockets which I think is far easier to achieve than Duren actually learning defensive instincts/awareness and becoming a plus in that area.


Right now Ivey’s value is really low, another dud season from him won’t change his “value”. Duren on the other hand still holds intrigue due to his age but another season where he’s often injured and plays bad defence will tank his value. Given where the leagues st and where it’s heading, we should be prioritising finding a stretch Center that can defend the rim. All the leagues best offenses have one and not having one limits lineup possibility and scoring potential.

Ivey gets way too much criticism when you consider the treatment Duren gets despite his poor play in the areas we actually need.

The options are not mutually exclusive. We could easily trade both of them. To answer your question, though, Duren fits with Cade on the offensive side of the ball. Ivey, thus far, doesn't fit with Cade on either side.

I'd certainly trade both of them in the right deal or deals, though.

[Skybox]

I only inquire about Duren because of the possibility of DET drafting Clingan.

Ivey's fit in ORL is pretty clear for the same reason they're linked to Monk. Ivey certainly has much to prove, but he's got value...ORL has cap space to figure in funky deals...any ideas (forget about Paolo, Franz, & Suggs). ORL has their own picks +