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2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1081 » by Bernman » Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:55 am

yb90 wrote:I would love a list of the all time pre draft questionable motor players.


Because you don't believe in the efficacy, do believe, or are genuinely wondering?

My vague recollection is it winds up in a high bust rate, though it's occasionally overcome in a big way.

Desire is a big factor in who wins in the playoffs. We tracked down loose balls & rebounds when we won. So did the C's. If we could have done it in game 3 v. the Pacers, we may advance. We do it in '18-'19, we advance to the finals & win by default.

Here's a reddit thread on the topic, crowdsourcing a list.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/8qnt8m/any_players_described_as_lacking_a_consistent/?rdt=50818

This was pre '18 draft & the inspiration was Bamba. In that case, the fears were realized. If they are for Ware too, that would have been a perfect test case, since Bamba checked all the physical & statistical boxes. I thought of the comparison prior to this.

Another inspiration was Ayton, where it has probably worked out better than not. But I'd still say he's soft & it's caused issues.

Ben Simmons was the next mentioned. I remember that, since I levied the charge.

Drummond & Whiteside come up multiple times. I'll let people determine how those turned out.

Cousins is mentioned. I remember the opposite, that he was angry.

It's an intangible, so not easy to measure, but if you see it, it should be a big part of the evaluation, especially for bigs who it takes more energy to lug their bodies around, and when the game may have chose them.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1082 » by Frank Nova » Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:58 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:With the news from KOC that we might try to become more versatile defensively, I wonder if we're the team that made the promise to Holmes?


I thought the speculation was Denver but I like Holmes as a prospect here so I’d be cool with him at 23.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1083 » by BUCKnation » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:01 am

Shannon, Ware and Dunn are my top 3 that ive, to steal from a woj/shams draft night tweet, locked in on
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1084 » by Bernman » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:13 am

Badgerlander wrote:I like Missi but I’m interested in Dunn as a wing defender. I just think his best spot on offense is the dunker spot. Battier had great recognition/anticipation but he didn’t have the hops that Dunn has. Dunn is a solid help defender at the rim and very switchable, not a guy thats going to play the drop and protect the rim.


Battier could plop out at the 3-pt line because he could shoot 3's. Dunn can't be there because he can't do that, or drive. There's nowhere to put him but inside + p&r. That doesn't mean he could do that effectively at 6'6 w/ an 8'7 standing reach. He's got to go up, from a standstill much of the time, against trees.

That's the rub. It might make him difficult to play until he shoots. And if he does, good chance it would be w/ another team. Then you might as well draft a real big who can actually play in the dunker spot/p&r effectively (if that even works next to Giannis).
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1085 » by msiris » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:17 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:
msiris wrote:After reading more about different prospects I am more in agreement with Ron Swanson on High floor high ceiling picks. So that leaves out Dunn who is more NBA ready which Ron Swanson doesn't want but would take Dunn. Um conflicting. My top 4 at 23 are Jaylon Tyson, Terrence Shannon, Kyshawn George, and Pacome Dadiet. The first two could probably contribute 1st year at some level. I have soured on Ware snce His motor is questionable which I hate in any prospect.



Dadiet also has motor questions.
Then there is 3 on my lit. LOL
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1086 » by yb90 » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:18 am

Bernman wrote:
yb90 wrote:I would love a list of the all time pre draft questionable motor players.


Because you don't believe in the efficacy, do believe, or are genuinely wondering?

My vague recollection is it winds up in a high bust rate, though it's occasionally overcome in a big way.

Desire is a big factor in who wins in the playoffs. We tracked down loose balls & rebounds when we won. So did the C's. If we could have done it in game 3 v. the Pacers, we may advance. We do it in '18-'19, we advance to the finals & win by default.

Here's a reddit thread on the topic, crowdsourcing a list.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/8qnt8m/any_players_described_as_lacking_a_consistent/?rdt=50818

This was pre '18 draft & the inspiration was Bamba. In that case, the fears were realized. If they are for Ware too, that would have been a perfect test case, since Bamba checked all the physical & statistical boxes. I thought of the comparison prior to this.

Another inspiration was Ayton, where it has probably worked out better than not. But I'd still say he's soft & it's caused issues.

Ben Simmons was the next mentioned. I remember that, since I levied the charge.

Drummond & Whiteside come up multiple times. I'll let people determine how those turned out.

Cousins is mentioned. I remember the opposite, that he was angry.

It's an intangible, so not easy to measure, but if you see it, it should be a big part of the evaluation, especially for bigs who it takes more energy to lug their bodies around, and when the game may have chose them.


Genuinely wondering.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1087 » by RiotPunch » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:18 am

Bernman wrote:
Badgerlander wrote:I like Missi but I’m interested in Dunn as a wing defender. I just think his best spot on offense is the dunker spot. Battier had great recognition/anticipation but he didn’t have the hops that Dunn has. Dunn is a solid help defender at the rim and very switchable, not a guy thats going to play the drop and protect the rim.


Battier could plop out at the 3-pt line because he could shoot 3's. Dunn can't be there because he can't do that, or drive. There's nowhere to put him but inside + p&r. That doesn't mean he could do that effectively at 6'6 w/ an 8'7 standing reach. He's got to go up, from a standstill much of the time, against trees. That's the rub. It might make him difficult to play until he irons that out. And if he does, good chance it would be w/ another team.

I'm skeptical of Dunn overall but he can definitely drive, although mainly attacking closeouts which aren't likely to occur often in the NBA with no jumper.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1088 » by RiotPunch » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:20 am

BUCKnation wrote:Shannon, Ware and Dunn are my top 3 that ive, to steal from a woj/shams draft night tweet, locked in on

I am really zeroing in on Shannon as the realistic guy I want most. Think he can be a really solid 2-way guy out of the gate that can get his own looks with the 2nd unit.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1089 » by Bernman » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:22 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:With the news from KOC that we might try to become more versatile defensively, I wonder if we're the team that made the promise to Holmes?


Are you sure you're not talking yourself into this because you like Holmes?

I think it's more likely something that would apply to Dunn, where they think they can play him next to Giannis as the 4 in small ball lineups, & the 3 against big wings such as the C's have, while hoping his/our lack of shooting just doesn't kill us.

I don't really agree w/ the philosophy. It's ultimately likely another project w/ role player upside, which is Horst's m.o. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised to learn he's planning on a non-project w/ higher functional upside like Holmes or Shannon.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1090 » by ShootingtheJ » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:35 am

SirChurros wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:With the news from KOC that we might try to become more versatile defensively, I wonder if we're the team that made the promise to Holmes?

We didn’t even work him out. Would be kind of weird to make a promise without a workout.


We don't actually know that. We only know what's shared by the team. If they make a promise, they'd keep the workout private.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1091 » by ShootingtheJ » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:37 am

Bernman wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:With the news from KOC that we might try to become more versatile defensively, I wonder if we're the team that made the promise to Holmes?


Are you sure you're not talking yourself into this because you like Holmes?

I think it's more likely something that would apply to Dunn, where they think they can play him next to Giannis as the 4 in small ball lineups, & the 3 against big wings such as the C's have, while hoping his/our lack of shooting just doesn't kill us.

I don't really agree w/ the philosophy. It's ultimately likely another project w/ role player upside, which is Horst's m.o. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised to learn he's planning on a non-project w/ higher functional upside like Holmes or Shannon.


Just because they want to be more versatile it doesn't mean Giannis has to move to center. Adding a center that excells switching adds a great deal of versatility.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1092 » by M-C-G » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:56 am

msiris wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:
msiris wrote:After reading more about different prospects I am more in agreement with Ron Swanson on High floor high ceiling picks. So that leaves out Dunn who is more NBA ready which Ron Swanson doesn't want but would take Dunn. Um conflicting. My top 4 at 23 are Jaylon Tyson, Terrence Shannon, Kyshawn George, and Pacome Dadiet. The first two could probably contribute 1st year at some level. I have soured on Ware snce His motor is questionable which I hate in any prospect.



Dadiet also has motor questions.
Then there is 3 on my lit. LOL


I’m not a scout, but what I have seen and at least this scouting report don’t jive with questionable motor

Dadiet is a high energy wing who impacts both ends of the court and all aspects of the game. Has a NBA level frame and athleticism and is just scratching the surface of his potential.

Makes good decisions with the ball and has a high feel for the game. Plays with great energy on defense and runs the floor hard. Does all the dirty work.

A capable 3pt shooter who can hit the open shot but still has room to grow.

Has some creativity with the ball and finishes well in the lane. Is capable of initiating the offense, impressive for such a young 6-8 player, who is one of the youngest prospects in the 2024 NBA Draft.

In this draft a player like Dadiet has a chance to rise up draft boards and be a surprise first round pick. He’s still got a bunch of development to do before being NBA ready but he’s got the tools, the skills and is on a great trajectory
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1093 » by M-C-G » Thu Jun 20, 2024 1:59 am

ShootingtheJ wrote:
SirChurros wrote:
ShootingtheJ wrote:With the news from KOC that we might try to become more versatile defensively, I wonder if we're the team that made the promise to Holmes?

We didn’t even work him out. Would be kind of weird to make a promise without a workout.


We don't actually know that. We only know what's shared by the team. If they make a promise, they'd keep the workout private.


I think this is correct. I’ve known of workouts that weren’t on a public list around draft time. Tells me those guys we don’t hear about are short list guys.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1094 » by Ron Swanson » Thu Jun 20, 2024 2:07 am

If we truly want to get "more versatile defensively", then Holmes is one of the last guys that makes sense at our pick.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1095 » by Bernman » Thu Jun 20, 2024 2:39 am

Ron Swanson wrote:If we truly want to get "more versatile defensively", then Holmes is one of the last guys that makes sense at our pick.


I guess hyperbole in one direction, leads to it in the other.

Here are all the top scouting reports from a Google search:

- Strengths..defense (SI)
- Strengths...switchable defender with a long wingspan (HoopsHype)
- Holmes projects to be an extremely versatile defender who opens up a playbook (SwishTheory)
- One of Holmes II’s main NBA values is his ability to guard multiple positions (Ersins NBA Newsletter)
- His ability to guard multiple positions makes him a coveted prospect for NBA teams seeking defensive versatility. (LWOS)
- Holmes can switch through all five positions while maintaining good ball pressure (Sports Business Classroom)

So you're likely wrong. He's just not Dunn.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1096 » by Ron Swanson » Thu Jun 20, 2024 2:58 am

Mogbo, Dunn, Missi, Ware, Klintman, and hell, I’d even say Bona would make more sense if we were looking to craft more versatile defensive personnel. And that’s just guys in our range. So no, I don’t really see Holmes as a switchable defensive guy in the NBA, at all.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1097 » by Frank Nova » Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:02 am

I like the Daniel Gafford comp for Adem Bona. 7’4” wingspan with a high functional motor, get him out there wrecking havoc for a few mins per night and see if he can be a positive or a negative. I’m coming around on him for 33 if we go wing/forward at 23.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1098 » by ShootingtheJ » Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:18 am

Ron Swanson wrote:If we truly want to get "more versatile defensively", then Holmes is one of the last guys that makes sense at our pick.


Having a terrific switch defender makes us less versatile? Please explain.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1099 » by ShootingtheJ » Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:21 am

Ron Swanson wrote:Mogbo, Dunn, Missi, Ware, Klintman, and hell, I’d even say Bona would make more sense if we were looking to craft more versatile defensive personnel. And that’s just guys in our range. So no, I don’t really see Holmes as a switchable defensive guy in the NBA, at all.


When switched Holmes man shoots an extremely low %, and he doesn't foul, and their defense is dramatically better when he's on the floor.

These things are facts.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread - June 26/27 

Post#1100 » by ShootingtheJ » Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:23 am

Bernman wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:If we truly want to get "more versatile defensively", then Holmes is one of the last guys that makes sense at our pick.


I guess hyperbole in one direction, leads to it in the other.

Here are all the top scouting reports from a Google search:

- Strengths..defense (SI)
- Strengths...switchable defender with a long wingspan (HoopsHype)
- Holmes projects to be an extremely versatile defender who opens up a playbook (SwishTheory)
- One of Holmes II’s main NBA values is his ability to guard multiple positions (Ersins NBA Newsletter)
- His ability to guard multiple positions makes him a coveted prospect for NBA teams seeking defensive versatility. (LWOS)
- Holmes can switch through all five positions while maintaining good ball pressure (Sports Business Classroom)

So you're likely wrong. He's just not Dunn.


I think he's watching film of Rachaun Holmes. It's the only explanation.

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