Woj: Siakam agrees to 4 year max contract

[granger05]

I was hoping we'd get him for something less than the max, but I guess I can count shaving off that last year as a win. We'll haver continuity going for us next season.

[Pacers Forever]

https://www.capsheets.com/indiana-pacers-cap-sheet/

This makes it appear that there’ll be enough to sign Obi and very little else. Maybe enough for draft picks? Nothing left for roster spots 14 and 15 ??

That has Stix on the books, but yes. That’s how the cap is set up. I would imagine pick 36 takes a main roster spot, Obi is potentially re-signed to an MLE type amount and then a vet minimum or two and we’re just under the tax. If Jalen opts out, we essentially have a touch under $20m for Obi, #36, and 1-2 other main roster spots. There’s not much to fill. And probably just the right amount to fill it?

Ok that sounds better. I was thinking $15 mil to sign Obi, Tshiebwe, Quentin Jackson, Wong, and 3 draft picks/2 ways would be very hard if Obi wanted much.

I don’t know where you got the extra $5 mil but I like it.

[Pacers Forever]

Scoot say the Pacers sign Obi for approximately $15 mil per year then afterwards do the Pacers have the mid level and bi annual exceptions still available for this upcoming season ?

Can 1 or both be used ? Seems like I have heard both can’t be used in the same year ? If so then could the Pacers sign a $12.5 mil player and a $4.5 mil player in 2 of the 3 end of the roster spots ?

If so then they would probably still enough for minimum salaries for the 15th spot and 3 two ways ?

A lot of questions, but just curious if player 13,14,15, plus 2 ways are possible to be more than g leaguers and new draft picks or if they will all be no experience fillers.

As a public service announcement I have nothing against development fillers like Tshiebwe, Q Jackson, and Wong.

[Scoot McGroot]

This makes it appear that there’ll be enough to sign Obi and very little else. Maybe enough for draft picks? Nothing left for roster spots 14 and 15 ??

That has Stix on the books, but yes. That’s how the cap is set up. I would imagine pick 36 takes a main roster spot, Obi is potentially re-signed to an MLE type amount and then a vet minimum or two and we’re just under the tax. If Jalen opts out, we essentially have a touch under $20m for Obi, #36, and 1-2 other main roster spots. There’s not much to fill. And probably just the right amount to fill it?

Ok that sounds better. I was thinking $15 mil to sign Obi, Tshiebwe, Quentin Jackson, Wong, and 3 draft picks/2 ways would be very hard if Obi wanted much.

I don’t know where you got the extra $5 mil but I like it.

The extra $5+m is if Jalen opts out.

Remember, though, two way players don’t count against the cap at all. And camp tryouts will be non guaranteed, so they won’t either.

I would imagine that Wong is gone, Oscar is a two way for sure, and Quentin Jackson gets a camp invite to try and make the main roster, while 49/50 are the new two ways with Oscar.

[Scoot McGroot]

Scoot say the Pacers sign Obi for approximately $15 mil per year then afterwards do the Pacers have the mid level and bi annual exceptions still available for this upcoming season ?

Indy has full Bird Rights, so they don’t have to use the MLE to sign Obi. Depending on what he signs for, and where the Pacers are in relation to the tax/apron, yes, the Pacers would still have the full MLE and BAE available, legally.

Can 1 or both be used ? Seems like I have heard both can’t be used in the same year ? If so then could the Pacers sign a $12.5 mil player and a $4.5 mil player in 2 of the 3 end of the roster spots ?

Both can be used in any given year, however the BAE can only be used every other year (hence the “bi-annual” part of the name). But theoretically, yes, they could use both. However they would count against the cap/tax, so Indy would end up too high in the tax to use anything more than the Taxpayer mid level exception, and would lose the BAE. If they used the non taxpayer MLE or the MLE, Indy would hard cap themselves at the first apron, and your plan has them about $5m over it.

If so then they would probably still enough for minimum salaries for the 15th spot and 3 two ways ?

A lot of questions, but just curious if player 13,14,15, plus 2 ways are possible to be more than g leaguers and new draft picks or if they will all be no experience fillers.

As a public service announcement I have nothing against development fillers like Tshiebwe, Q Jackson, and Wong.

Well, if we assume Indy won’t pay the tax this year, then I would assume we see EITHER Obi re-signed OR the full MLE used, but not both. But if Obi and the 36th pick are signed to full roster spots, even if Jalen opts out, that’s 13 guys under contract, with no real holes in the roster. I’d bet they’re vet minimum guys, and Indy may even leave the 15th spot empty, too.

[Pacers Forever]

That has Stix on the books, but yes. That’s how the cap is set up. I would imagine pick 36 takes a main roster spot, Obi is potentially re-signed to an MLE type amount and then a vet minimum or two and we’re just under the tax. If Jalen opts out, we essentially have a touch under $20m for Obi, #36, and 1-2 other main roster spots. There’s not much to fill. And probably just the right amount to fill it?

Ok that sounds better. I was thinking $15 mil to sign Obi, Tshiebwe, Quentin Jackson, Wong, and 3 draft picks/2 ways would be very hard if Obi wanted much.

I don’t know where you got the extra $5 mil but I like it.

The extra $5+m is if Jalen opts out.

Remember, though, two way players don’t count against the cap at all. And camp tryouts will be non guaranteed, so they won’t either.

I would imagine that Wong is gone, Oscar is a two way for sure, and Quentin Jackson gets a camp invite to try and make the main roster, while 49/50 are the new two ways with Oscar.

Cool I thought letting Stix go gave us the $5 mil but wasn’t sure. Great that 2 ways don’t count against the cap.

[Pacers Forever]

Thanks for the clarification Scoot. This way I don’t get my hopes up for anything other than Obi and development players and possibly a low cost worn out vet or maybe a low cost vet who has a nightly 5 minutes span of defense left in his game

Unfortunately I don’t think Lance could be a defensive stopper although he’ll be a cheap mentor and probably more productive than Doug McBuckets was and definitely J. Johnson.

I just hope that J Johnson isn’t their choice. IMHO the other vets and players should be mentoring as well as the coaches who were former players. The end of the roster vets should be contributing to the effort if injuries occur or they’re called upon. Otherwise fill the end of the roster with a potential low cost break out youngster.

[Scoot McGroot]

Thanks for the clarification Scoot. This way I don’t get my hopes up for anything other than Obi and development players and possibly a low cost worn out vet or maybe a low cost vet who has a nightly 5 minutes span of defense left in his game

Unfortunately I don’t think Lance could be a defensive stopper although he’ll be a cheap mentor and probably more productive than Doug McBuckets was and definitely J. Johnson.

I just hope that J Johnson isn’t their choice. IMHO the other vets and players should be mentoring as well as the coaches who were former players. The end of the roster vets should be contributing to the effort if injuries occur or they’re called upon. Otherwise fill the end of the roster with a potential low cost break out youngster.

The current roster is deep enough with usable talent, or guys we want to see get minutes, that I don’t mind a James Johnson as the 14th or 15th. Sure, on the court he’s mostly some tough fouls and maybe a few neat passes, but that man just soothes the locker room, and helped the entire roster play tougher. There’s a serious value in that, to me.

[JMaster5K]

Thanks for the clarification Scoot. This way I don’t get my hopes up for anything other than Obi and development players and possibly a low cost worn out vet or maybe a low cost vet who has a nightly 5 minutes span of defense left in his game

Unfortunately I don’t think Lance could be a defensive stopper although he’ll be a cheap mentor and probably more productive than Doug McBuckets was and definitely J. Johnson.

I just hope that J Johnson isn’t their choice. IMHO the other vets and players should be mentoring as well as the coaches who were former players. The end of the roster vets should be contributing to the effort if injuries occur or they’re called upon. Otherwise fill the end of the roster with a potential low cost break out youngster.

The current roster is deep enough with usable talent, or guys we want to see get minutes, that I don’t mind a James Johnson as the 14th or 15th. Sure, on the court he’s mostly some tough fouls and maybe a few neat passes, but that man just soothes the locker room, and helped the entire roster play tougher. There’s a serious value in that, to me.

Agree. He also keeps in fighting shape,.. literally. He helps the rest of the team understand not just the physical preparation to play at this level, but the mental preparation as well. As you said,... he 'soothes' the locker room. Most of our players interviewed have said,.. he not only doesn't get too high,.. doesn't get too low,... but also focuses on the key things that need to be done, and has the ability almost innately to cause the others around him to do the same.

[Scoot McGroot]

Just got word there’s no trade kicker in Siakam’s contract. This went about as well as indy could have reasonably hoped.

[Pacers Forever]

Just got word there’s no trade kicker in Siakam’s contract. This went about as well as indy could have reasonably hoped.

I have to speculate that Siakam would take no less than 4 years and the Pacers wanted 4 rather than 5 years.

This way they can sign him to a new contract at a lower salary after these 4 years when his abilities due to age could be diminished and he won’t command top tier money anymore. Or they could move on if he’s no longer in their plans by then. I’m sure it’s a guessing game up front of when each athlete will start their decline.

I’m excited this worked out.

[Scoot McGroot]

Just got word there’s no trade kicker in Siakam’s contract. This went about as well as indy could have reasonably hoped.

I have to speculate that Siakam would take no less than 4 years and the Pacers wanted 4 rather than 5 years.

This way they can sign him to a new contract at a lower salary after these 4 years when his abilities due to age could be diminished and he won’t command top tier money anymore. Or they could move on if he’s no longer in their plans by then. I’m sure it’s a guessing game up front of when each athlete will start their decline.

I’m excited this worked out.

I imagine Siakam wanted a 4 year so he can get a final extension in 3 years from signing this new contract.

[JMaster5K]

Just got word there’s no trade kicker in Siakam’s contract. This went about as well as indy could have reasonably hoped.

I have to speculate that Siakam would take no less than 4 years and the Pacers wanted 4 rather than 5 years.

This way they can sign him to a new contract at a lower salary after these 4 years when his abilities due to age could be diminished and he won’t command top tier money anymore. Or they could move on if he’s no longer in their plans by then. I’m sure it’s a guessing game up front of when each athlete will start their decline.

I’m excited this worked out.

I imagine Siakam wanted a 4 year so he can get a final extension in 3 years from signing this new contract.

Correct me if I'm wrong here?... but with a 4 year contract, they can begin negotiations on an extension, on the second anniversary of the signature of the contract? with any resulting extension, including the years left on the original contract, 'tacked on' at the end of the contract. With this 4 year deal, after the 3rd year, Pascal will have just enough experience (10 years) that he qualifies for the highest level (35% max) band on an extension?

Not saying he will get it,.. or we should offer it, or anything of that regard now. Just saying, it looks like excellent positioning for the future for both the player and the club?

Question for Scoot? I know it's a moot point,.. with the contract being 3+ years long,.. but,.. as Pascal actually hit free agency, and this is a new contract, did his Bird rights reset?... If he had signed with another team, they wouldn't have full Bird rights until he was with them for 3 years? But as he is re-signing with his prior team, is that still true?...

[JMaster5K]

Ok that sounds better. I was thinking $15 mil to sign Obi, Tshiebwe, Quentin Jackson, Wong, and 3 draft picks/2 ways would be very hard if Obi wanted much.

I don’t know where you got the extra $5 mil but I like it.

The extra $5+m is if Jalen opts out.

Remember, though, two way players don’t count against the cap at all. And camp tryouts will be non guaranteed, so they won’t either.

I would imagine that Wong is gone, Oscar is a two way for sure, and Quentin Jackson gets a camp invite to try and make the main roster, while 49/50 are the new two ways with Oscar.

Cool I thought letting Stix go gave us the $5 mil but wasn’t sure. Great that 2 ways don’t count against the cap.

After the Pascal estimate has gone in, Spotrac is showing us over the cap (as expected) with $14,387,466 in room under the tax threshold, including Stix at his option of $5,417,386. If Stix opts out, all else staying the same, we should have $19,804,852 in space below the tax threshold.

As Scoot said,.. (assuming that Stix signs elsewhere) we could probably resign Ob1 or use the full MLE but not both without going into the tax. It's worth a note that this year, (again, correct me if I'm wrong?) that if a team uses more of their NTP-MLE than the value of the TP-MLE, they become hardcapped at the first apron. So, if we used more than $5,220,000 (currently) of our MLE, we would be hardcapped at $178,655,000.

If we could resign Ob1 at around $13M? we could make it so other teams couldn't use their MLE to increase the offer (MLE value of $12,951,000 currently) essentially limiting the teams that could sweeten the pot to cap space teams. Also, if we use the $5,220,000 portion of the MLE and leave ourselves around $1,584,852 below the tax threshold, and $7,024,852 under the first apron without being hard capped. I think FO has maximized our options at this point,... sign Ob1 for a little more,.. use a little less of the MLE, if we choose to use it at all?

Resigning Ob1 would give us 13 players under contract. If we used that $5M portion of the MLE to sign a player, we would have 14 players.

If I have to guess,... I think we resign Ob1. Probably bring on a vet min contract in JJ (to give us a full roster),... which only counts a portion against the cap. Unless something really helpful comes along,... hold on to the MLE to give us flexibility during the season?

[Scoot McGroot]

I have to speculate that Siakam would take no less than 4 years and the Pacers wanted 4 rather than 5 years.

This way they can sign him to a new contract at a lower salary after these 4 years when his abilities due to age could be diminished and he won’t command top tier money anymore. Or they could move on if he’s no longer in their plans by then. I’m sure it’s a guessing game up front of when each athlete will start their decline.

I’m excited this worked out.

I imagine Siakam wanted a 4 year so he can get a final extension in 3 years from signing this new contract.

Correct me if I'm wrong here?... but with a 4 year contract, they can begin negotiations on an extension, on the second anniversary of the signature of the contract? with any resulting extension, including the years left on the original contract, 'tacked on' at the end of the contract. With this 4 year deal, after the 3rd year, Pascal will have just enough experience (10 years) that he qualifies for the highest level (35% max) band on an extension?

No, you’re right. I was writing about extensions and options and crossed the two.

Not saying he will get it,.. or we should offer it, or anything of that regard now. Just saying, it looks like excellent positioning for the future for both the player and the club?

Question for Scoot? I know it's a moot point,.. with the contract being 3+ years long,.. but,.. as Pascal actually hit free agency, and this is a new contract, did his Bird rights reset?... If he had signed with another team, they wouldn't have full Bird rights until he was with them for 3 years? But as he is re-signing with his prior team, is that still true?...

His Bird Rights continued. He was never renounced, never cleared waivers, or did he change teams via free agency, so his full Bird Rights continue unchanged. We received his full Bird Rights because we were assigned his contract from Toronto.

[JMaster5K]

I imagine Siakam wanted a 4 year so he can get a final extension in 3 years from signing this new contract.

Correct me if I'm wrong here?... but with a 4 year contract, they can begin negotiations on an extension, on the second anniversary of the signature of the contract? with any resulting extension, including the years left on the original contract, 'tacked on' at the end of the contract. With this 4 year deal, after the 3rd year, Pascal will have just enough experience (10 years) that he qualifies for the highest level (35% max) band on an extension?

No, you’re right. I was writing about extensions and options and crossed the two.

Not saying he will get it,.. or we should offer it, or anything of that regard now. Just saying, it looks like excellent positioning for the future for both the player and the club?

Question for Scoot? I know it's a moot point,.. with the contract being 3+ years long,.. but,.. as Pascal actually hit free agency, and this is a new contract, did his Bird rights reset?... If he had signed with another team, they wouldn't have full Bird rights until he was with them for 3 years? But as he is re-signing with his prior team, is that still true?...

His Bird Rights continued. He was never renounced, never cleared waivers, or did he change teams via free agency, so his full Bird Rights continue unchanged. We received his full Bird Rights because we were assigned his contract from Toronto.

Thank you. Could remember that FA could affect his bird rights,... just couldn't remember how! The best thing about getting old,.. is not remembering that you have gotten old,....

[boomershadow]

How do you feel about this one compared to the 5/212 for OG

[granger05]

How do you feel about this one compared to the 5/212 for OG

Siakam is more reliable/available so I feel like he's a better deal even at a higher number (per year). Also, given some of the picks trades we're seeing lately, we really did get him on a discount at the deadline.