ImageImageImage

2024-25 Regular Season

Moderator: ijspeelman

JonFromVA
RealGM
Posts: 15,176
And1: 5,035
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#21 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jun 20, 2024 5:26 pm

toooskies wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
toooskies wrote:If only the Knicks, Pacers, Heat, Sixers, Bucks, Clippers, and Pelicans weren't coached by JBB this year, they might've had a shot at a title.

In a league that is as competitive as ever, players have to play hard to win. Coaches are going to do what they need to do to win games and keep their jobs. The league is actively trying to disincentivize rest days for players. 82 games at the current degree of NBA intensity in the regular season is too many.

The Cavs aren't as dominant as the Spurs teams that often had their stars rest and purposely take an L and not impact their season. A bunch of teams are in the 45+ win range.
Still a jb apologist, i see lol

After Allen called out jb for his terrible defensive gameplan in the game 3 blowout to the Magic to only play 28 minutes the rest of the post season after that is telling.

Marcus Morris to be on the team 6 weeks and to publicly say he could tell players were not receptive to what jb was saying.

Rumors of someone saying Allen coulda played with the rib injury, turns out it was jb saying it as once he was fired he didn't mince words in praising Luka.

Allen played in the prior 2 postseasons for jb while being hurt.

Mitchell played through the entire post season hurt for jb until he sat down. Then to post a pic with Allen in solitary after their former coach called both of them + LeVert out, it is very telling.

Allen, Mitchell, and LeVert all coulda played in game 5, I'm sure, they were just fed up with the trash can that is jb bickerstaff. And kudos to them for finally helping get that bum fired.

jb lost the locker room after the gentleman's sweep to the Knicks. Saying his players needed to be tougher and in better shape, zero accountability, guy is a clown.

Not an apologist-- don't like the Luka comments-- but I'm asking you why you think other coaches magically keep their players healthy. I gave you a list of teams that all had postseasons short-circuited by injury. I didn't even mention Memphis, or teams like the Lakers or Golden State in past years. Heck, even Boston lost Porzingis for most of the playoffs and trotted him out for game 5 for 16 minutes against medical recommendation. And even they are only a little more than a year out from losing a game 7 against Miami because of Tatum's sprained ankle.

Jayson Tatum played more 40 minute games himself than Garland and Mitchell combined (and I they had the most 40 minute games of our starters), but JBB is somehow the only coach that runs down his players?

I think you're just setting yourself up to be able to complain about the next guy.


IMO, should be looking at our roster composition and training staff too, but minutes played won't tell the full story. You have to look at how the offense and defense system is run and what kind of load it puts on different players.

One example ... Boston likes to switch on defense and they play some drop. They can do that thanks to their length. They avoid doubling, they avoid scrambling. The burden is a lot lower than our defense that requires everyone to constantly help, rotate, and rebound.

On offense they have 4 guys who can initiate the offense and they can space the floor so they don't have to navigate the paint like a pinball ball trying to descend from the top of the table.

It all matters and it all starts with our coach, even if our coach may turn out not to be the only problem.
JujitsuFlip
RealGM
Posts: 15,025
And1: 9,290
Joined: Sep 10, 2021

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#22 » by JujitsuFlip » Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:09 pm

toooskies wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
toooskies wrote:If only the Knicks, Pacers, Heat, Sixers, Bucks, Clippers, and Pelicans weren't coached by JBB this year, they might've had a shot at a title.

In a league that is as competitive as ever, players have to play hard to win. Coaches are going to do what they need to do to win games and keep their jobs. The league is actively trying to disincentivize rest days for players. 82 games at the current degree of NBA intensity in the regular season is too many.

The Cavs aren't as dominant as the Spurs teams that often had their stars rest and purposely take an L and not impact their season. A bunch of teams are in the 45+ win range.
Still a jb apologist, i see lol

After Allen called out jb for his terrible defensive gameplan in the game 3 blowout to the Magic to only play 28 minutes the rest of the post season after that is telling.

Marcus Morris to be on the team 6 weeks and to publicly say he could tell players were not receptive to what jb was saying.

Rumors of someone saying Allen coulda played with the rib injury, turns out it was jb saying it as once he was fired he didn't mince words in praising Luka.

Allen played in the prior 2 postseasons for jb while being hurt.

Mitchell played through the entire post season hurt for jb until he sat down. Then to post a pic with Allen in solitary after their former coach called both of them + LeVert out, it is very telling.

Allen, Mitchell, and LeVert all coulda played in game 5, I'm sure, they were just fed up with the trash can that is jb bickerstaff. And kudos to them for finally helping get that bum fired.

jb lost the locker room after the gentleman's sweep to the Knicks. Saying his players needed to be tougher and in better shape, zero accountability, guy is a clown.

Not an apologist-- don't like the Luka comments-- but I'm asking you why you think other coaches magically keep their players healthy. I gave you a list of teams that all had postseasons short-circuited by injury. I didn't even mention Memphis, or teams like the Lakers or Golden State in past years. Heck, even Boston lost Porzingis for most of the playoffs and trotted him out for game 5 for 16 minutes against medical recommendation. And even they are only a little more than a year out from losing a game 7 against Miami because of Tatum's sprained ankle.

Jayson Tatum played more 40 minute games himself than Garland and Mitchell combined (and I they had the most 40 minute games of our starters), but JBB is somehow the only coach that runs down his players?

I think you're just setting yourself up to be able to complain about the next guy.
We already showed u that jb ran the shortest rotation in the NBA... The guy did it for 5 seasons straight.

Koby didn't allegedly scream at him in front of his staff in December for fun... The guy had a huge problem managing rotations and players minutes. It is a huge factor on why he no longer has a job.

It is not some coincidence the Cavs had nothing left to give 3 post seasons in a row.
toooskies
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,232
And1: 2,551
Joined: Jul 18, 2013
     

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#23 » by toooskies » Thu Jun 20, 2024 8:55 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
toooskies wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Still a jb apologist, i see lol

After Allen called out jb for his terrible defensive gameplan in the game 3 blowout to the Magic to only play 28 minutes the rest of the post season after that is telling.

Marcus Morris to be on the team 6 weeks and to publicly say he could tell players were not receptive to what jb was saying.

Rumors of someone saying Allen coulda played with the rib injury, turns out it was jb saying it as once he was fired he didn't mince words in praising Luka.

Allen played in the prior 2 postseasons for jb while being hurt.

Mitchell played through the entire post season hurt for jb until he sat down. Then to post a pic with Allen in solitary after their former coach called both of them + LeVert out, it is very telling.

Allen, Mitchell, and LeVert all coulda played in game 5, I'm sure, they were just fed up with the trash can that is jb bickerstaff. And kudos to them for finally helping get that bum fired.

jb lost the locker room after the gentleman's sweep to the Knicks. Saying his players needed to be tougher and in better shape, zero accountability, guy is a clown.

Not an apologist-- don't like the Luka comments-- but I'm asking you why you think other coaches magically keep their players healthy. I gave you a list of teams that all had postseasons short-circuited by injury. I didn't even mention Memphis, or teams like the Lakers or Golden State in past years. Heck, even Boston lost Porzingis for most of the playoffs and trotted him out for game 5 for 16 minutes against medical recommendation. And even they are only a little more than a year out from losing a game 7 against Miami because of Tatum's sprained ankle.

Jayson Tatum played more 40 minute games himself than Garland and Mitchell combined (and I they had the most 40 minute games of our starters), but JBB is somehow the only coach that runs down his players?

I think you're just setting yourself up to be able to complain about the next guy.
We already showed u that jb ran the shortest rotation in the NBA... The guy did it for 5 seasons straight.

Koby didn't allegedly scream at him in front of his staff in December for fun... The guy had a huge problem managing rotations and players minutes. It is a huge factor on why he no longer has a job.

It is not some coincidence the Cavs had nothing left to give 3 post seasons in a row.

I could ask you what you'd do different but I'd rather look at Borrego as a for-instance, with only 8 players playing 1000 minutes for him the last season he coached in Charlotte. Atkinson is harder to evaluate since his roster was in constant flux.
JujitsuFlip
RealGM
Posts: 15,025
And1: 9,290
Joined: Sep 10, 2021

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#24 » by JujitsuFlip » Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:23 pm

toooskies wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
toooskies wrote:Not an apologist-- don't like the Luka comments-- but I'm asking you why you think other coaches magically keep their players healthy. I gave you a list of teams that all had postseasons short-circuited by injury. I didn't even mention Memphis, or teams like the Lakers or Golden State in past years. Heck, even Boston lost Porzingis for most of the playoffs and trotted him out for game 5 for 16 minutes against medical recommendation. And even they are only a little more than a year out from losing a game 7 against Miami because of Tatum's sprained ankle.

Jayson Tatum played more 40 minute games himself than Garland and Mitchell combined (and I they had the most 40 minute games of our starters), but JBB is somehow the only coach that runs down his players?

I think you're just setting yourself up to be able to complain about the next guy.
We already showed u that jb ran the shortest rotation in the NBA... The guy did it for 5 seasons straight.

Koby didn't allegedly scream at him in front of his staff in December for fun... The guy had a huge problem managing rotations and players minutes. It is a huge factor on why he no longer has a job.

It is not some coincidence the Cavs had nothing left to give 3 post seasons in a row.

I could ask you what you'd do different but I'd rather look at Borrego as a for-instance, with only 8 players playing 1000 minutes for him the last season he coached in Charlotte. Atkinson is harder to evaluate since his roster was in constant flux.
I looked through Borrego's season in question and he for sure has some concerning minute allocation. Only going 7 deep quite a few times.

I personally wouldn't hire him anyways, he didn't make the playoffs with Hornets or Magic as their head coach.

Stein believes he is the leader to get the job though, maybe the Pistons can steal him from us.

I looked at Kenny's season he made the playoffs and he pretty consistently played 10 guys in the rotation, sometimes even 11. He obviously would go down to 9 for some games too. For the regular season though, 10-12 guys playing is solid, what ya want.
jbk1234
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 59,200
And1: 36,251
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
 

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#25 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jun 24, 2024 2:53 pm

We hired Atkinson
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
JujitsuFlip
RealGM
Posts: 15,025
And1: 9,290
Joined: Sep 10, 2021

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#26 » by JujitsuFlip » Mon Jun 24, 2024 4:07 pm

I'm happy to have a coach in place before the draft and free agency, get his input on how we construct the roster to fit his system.

Sidebar, he brought Allen off the bench before, does he have enough equity with him to do so again?
User avatar
ijspeelman
Forum Mod - Cavs
Forum Mod - Cavs
Posts: 2,700
And1: 1,226
Joined: Feb 17, 2022
Contact:
   

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#27 » by ijspeelman » Mon Jun 24, 2024 4:43 pm

jbk1234 wrote:We hired Atkinson


Out of the options mentioned over and over, he was one of my favs, but we will have to see it in action
toooskies
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,232
And1: 2,551
Joined: Jul 18, 2013
     

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#28 » by toooskies » Mon Jun 24, 2024 4:47 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:I'm happy to have a coach in place before the draft and free agency, get his input on how we construct the roster to fit his system.

Sidebar, he brought Allen off the bench before, does he have enough equity with him to do so again?

I think you need to see Mobley take the Leap first (in his non-Allen minutes) before you start making room for him. Allen was clearly the better player in the first four games against Orlando.
JonFromVA
RealGM
Posts: 15,176
And1: 5,035
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#29 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:02 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:I'm happy to have a coach in place before the draft and free agency, get his input on how we construct the roster to fit his system.

Sidebar, he brought Allen off the bench before, does he have enough equity with him to do so again?


KD and Kyrie demanded that Steve Nash start washed up DeAndre Jordan over Allen. Kenny was gone.
JonFromVA
RealGM
Posts: 15,176
And1: 5,035
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#30 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:06 pm

Just keep in mind, nothing has been signed yet and negotiations can fall apart in this day and age over contract numbers and years.
JujitsuFlip
RealGM
Posts: 15,025
And1: 9,290
Joined: Sep 10, 2021

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#31 » by JujitsuFlip » Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:24 pm

JonFromVA wrote:Just keep in mind, nothing has been signed yet and negotiations can fall apart in this day and age over contract numbers and years.
Don't let the Hornets fans get in your head! lol
JujitsuFlip
RealGM
Posts: 15,025
And1: 9,290
Joined: Sep 10, 2021

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#32 » by JujitsuFlip » Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:26 pm

toooskies wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:I'm happy to have a coach in place before the draft and free agency, get his input on how we construct the roster to fit his system.

Sidebar, he brought Allen off the bench before, does he have enough equity with him to do so again?

I think you need to see Mobley take the Leap first (in his non-Allen minutes) before you start making room for him. Allen was clearly the better player in the first four games against Orlando.
Allen was the better player for sure. If can't or doesn't wanna split up the slim towers, he can try to get Mobley up to at least a Draymond volume from deep. It will have to go above the 1.3 APG from there but Kenny has been under Kerr so I'm sure he has some good thoughts and ideas on how to maximize the offense.
JujitsuFlip
RealGM
Posts: 15,025
And1: 9,290
Joined: Sep 10, 2021

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#33 » by JujitsuFlip » Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:33 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:I'm happy to have a coach in place before the draft and free agency, get his input on how we construct the roster to fit his system.

Sidebar, he brought Allen off the bench before, does he have enough equity with him to do so again?


KD and Kyrie demanded that Steve Nash start washed up DeAndre Jordan over Allen. Kenny was gone.
In Allen's rookie year Kenny only started him 31 of his 72 games, in Allen's second season Kenny had him start all 85 games, and in Allen's 3rd season, the covid season, the one Kenny didn't finish, in the first 6 games Allen only started 3 (DeAndre getting the other 3 starts).
JonFromVA
RealGM
Posts: 15,176
And1: 5,035
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#34 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:33 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Just keep in mind, nothing has been signed yet and negotiations can fall apart in this day and age over contract numbers and years.
Don't let the Hornets fans get in your head! lol


Coaches salaries are getting kind of ridiculous lately and I can't imagine what Kenny has done to deserve a top offer, but if that's his ask, I could see things falling apart.

The Cavs have identified more than one guy for the job and they can easily circle back rather than let themselves be robbed at gunpoint.

Hopefully, they've already agreed on the framework of the deal ....
JujitsuFlip
RealGM
Posts: 15,025
And1: 9,290
Joined: Sep 10, 2021

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#35 » by JujitsuFlip » Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:34 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Just keep in mind, nothing has been signed yet and negotiations can fall apart in this day and age over contract numbers and years.
Don't let the Hornets fans get in your head! lol


Coaches salaries are getting kind of ridiculous lately and I can't imagine what Kenny has done to deserve a top offer, but if that's his ask, I could see things falling apart.

The Cavs have identified more than one guy for the job and they can easily circle back rather than let themselves be robbed at gunpoint.

Hopefully, they've already agreed on the framework of the deal ....
Dan is a billionaire, they could hand Kenny that fattest contract in history and Dan wouldn't feel it.
toooskies
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,232
And1: 2,551
Joined: Jul 18, 2013
     

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#36 » by toooskies » Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:38 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Don't let the Hornets fans get in your head! lol


Coaches salaries are getting kind of ridiculous lately and I can't imagine what Kenny has done to deserve a top offer, but if that's his ask, I could see things falling apart.

The Cavs have identified more than one guy for the job and they can easily circle back rather than let themselves be robbed at gunpoint.

Hopefully, they've already agreed on the framework of the deal ....
Dan is a billionaire, they could hand Kenny that fattest contract in history and Dan wouldn't feel it.

What's more, the TV contracts going up gives the front offices more money to spread around.

I'd absolutely want my head coach to deserve more in salary than Georges Niang.
JonFromVA
RealGM
Posts: 15,176
And1: 5,035
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#37 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:49 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Don't let the Hornets fans get in your head! lol


Coaches salaries are getting kind of ridiculous lately and I can't imagine what Kenny has done to deserve a top offer, but if that's his ask, I could see things falling apart.

The Cavs have identified more than one guy for the job and they can easily circle back rather than let themselves be robbed at gunpoint.

Hopefully, they've already agreed on the framework of the deal ....
Dan is a billionaire, they could hand Kenny that fattest contract in history and Dan wouldn't feel it.


If Dan was willing to spend whatever it takes, it's hard to imagine how Larry Brown, Tom Izzo, Bill Self, John Calipari, and every other high profile candidate he's talked to over the years did not end up in Cleveland.
JonFromVA
RealGM
Posts: 15,176
And1: 5,035
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#38 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:50 pm

toooskies wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Coaches salaries are getting kind of ridiculous lately and I can't imagine what Kenny has done to deserve a top offer, but if that's his ask, I could see things falling apart.

The Cavs have identified more than one guy for the job and they can easily circle back rather than let themselves be robbed at gunpoint.

Hopefully, they've already agreed on the framework of the deal ....
Dan is a billionaire, they could hand Kenny that fattest contract in history and Dan wouldn't feel it.

What's more, the TV contracts going up gives the front offices more money to spread around.

I'd absolutely want my head coach to deserve more in salary than Georges Niang.


You blow up the salary structure, and you're going to get angry phone calls from 31 other owners and maybe the league office the next day. :lol:
toooskies
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,232
And1: 2,551
Joined: Jul 18, 2013
     

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#39 » by toooskies » Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:58 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:Dan is a billionaire, they could hand Kenny that fattest contract in history and Dan wouldn't feel it.

What's more, the TV contracts going up gives the front offices more money to spread around.

I'd absolutely want my head coach to deserve more in salary than Georges Niang.


You blow up the salary structure, and you're going to get angry phone calls from 31 other owners and maybe the league office the next day. :lol:

I'm not saying that you hand Atkinson $20m/year or anything crazy, but I'd expect something in the $9-10m range.
JonFromVA
RealGM
Posts: 15,176
And1: 5,035
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
     

Re: 2024-25 Off-Season 

Post#40 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:09 pm

toooskies wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
toooskies wrote:What's more, the TV contracts going up gives the front offices more money to spread around.

I'd absolutely want my head coach to deserve more in salary than Georges Niang.


You blow up the salary structure, and you're going to get angry phone calls from 31 other owners and maybe the league office the next day. :lol:

I'm not saying that you hand Atkinson $20m/year or anything crazy, but I'd expect something in the $9-10m range.


Hopefully we'll see, but Mike Brown for instance is getting paid $8.5M, has a **** more experience, success directing his current team, has been to the finals, has a winning record, etc, etc.

I'd suggest we compare what Jordi Fernandez got from Brooklyn given I'd consider them on a similar level, but I can't find any details on what Jordi got.

Return to Cleveland Cavaliers