Woj: Siakam re-ups with Indiana 4YRS $190M

[arbsn]

Well deserved contract for the Toronto Legend and top 6 Raptor of all time!

[Scase]

Where does this idea that the Raps could have somehow got so much more for Pascal, if they traded him a year earlier. I'm pretty sure the Raps were floating his name in numerous deals (Durant, Portland's #3 pick, Dame, etc.) because they had already refused to give him the extension he wanted.

I think it was Zach Lowe who on his podcast said the offer the Raps ultimately got for Pascal was similar to what he was hearing was offered for him leading up to the previous trade deadline and even the summer, when Atlanta was expressing interest, which is not much.

The Raps FO stretched it out to the longest possible point trying to create greater leverage that never materialized into anything more than what they ultimately got.

Just because some people on here think they should have got more, doesn't make it a reality.

I was disappointed they were not able to get more, but the market spoke.

Pascal's max contract request was what killed his value.

I think it's a pretty reasonable expectation that a player with a year+ on their contract will typically net more than an expiring who is an extreme flight risk.

As for his contract request killing his value, I'm gonna have to say no to that. He still got a max, the Kings were willing to give him a max, he publicly killed his value by saying he's not signing anywhere else. Which is something that very likely is avoided, if you trade him before he's an expiring.

How much of a difference the return would have been is a different story. Lowe as keyed in as he is, "similar" is up for interpretation. What if we were offered AJ + filler from the Hawks, but 3 mid/bad picks + filler from the pacers. You could consider that similar in overall value, but similar in actual assets. The Hawks could not have offered us a similar package in the way of picks since they don't have the same assets, same for the Kings and whoever else may have been in discussion.

Again, if we blame it on trading him as an expiring, trading him 1 or 2 years ago, him poisoning the well, or really any other symptom that resulted in a lower return, it's still the FO that caused or could have avoided it. The FO was entirely in the drivers seat until the summer when they went scorched earth, which is again, their fault. Siakam isn't to blame directly for his return, the other teams aren't, our FO is.

The moment Pascal refused the Raps extension offer, it was then known around the league he was looking for another max deal. At that point, any team trading for him had to be willing to extend him on a max. The only team that could offer him the most was the team he was on.

At that point teams offered crap, because they knew if they were going to have to pay him, his trade value was not worth much.

Zach Lowe said on his podcast, the offers he heard for Pascal were not that much different than what the Raps ultimately got. So teams were offering mid picks after Pascal refused the extension.

Having the extra year doesn't rally matter if the team is intent on resigning him. Otherwise, they would have to be fine with walking away from his demands, he then becomes an expiring contract, and is that really worth a lot?

So he's both a max player, yet worth nothing. Sorry, this is hard to believe. The max was not the issue, it was the years, which again, he was going to get from both the Kings and the Pacers. Teams were not unwilling to give him the money, they had no trust that he would stay.

The entire situation was mismanaged, just like the FVV one. If the packages were similar, why keep him an additional year and drag out the situation longer? The FO screwed it up, period.

[Johnny Bball]

You stopped posting during the championship season? That’s tough man.

2 years prior to it, but yeah I wasn't active much of anywhere for a handful of years. Still got to enjoy it though!

You went from not posting to posting like 1000 times a day. Feels strange... where did you put all that energy into?

The guy has been bitching non-stop for a year straight now. I'll presume he found other things to bitch about for those years.

[LoveMyRaps]

Well deserved contract for the Toronto Legend and top 6 Raptor of all time!

Top 1 in my books.

[JB7]

I think it's a pretty reasonable expectation that a player with a year+ on their contract will typically net more than an expiring who is an extreme flight risk.

As for his contract request killing his value, I'm gonna have to say no to that. He still got a max, the Kings were willing to give him a max, he publicly killed his value by saying he's not signing anywhere else. Which is something that very likely is avoided, if you trade him before he's an expiring.

How much of a difference the return would have been is a different story. Lowe as keyed in as he is, "similar" is up for interpretation. What if we were offered AJ + filler from the Hawks, but 3 mid/bad picks + filler from the pacers. You could consider that similar in overall value, but similar in actual assets. The Hawks could not have offered us a similar package in the way of picks since they don't have the same assets, same for the Kings and whoever else may have been in discussion.

Again, if we blame it on trading him as an expiring, trading him 1 or 2 years ago, him poisoning the well, or really any other symptom that resulted in a lower return, it's still the FO that caused or could have avoided it. The FO was entirely in the drivers seat until the summer when they went scorched earth, which is again, their fault. Siakam isn't to blame directly for his return, the other teams aren't, our FO is.

The moment Pascal refused the Raps extension offer, it was then known around the league he was looking for another max deal. At that point, any team trading for him had to be willing to extend him on a max. The only team that could offer him the most was the team he was on.

At that point teams offered crap, because they knew if they were going to have to pay him, his trade value was not worth much.

Zach Lowe said on his podcast, the offers he heard for Pascal were not that much different than what the Raps ultimately got. So teams were offering mid picks after Pascal refused the extension.

Having the extra year doesn't rally matter if the team is intent on resigning him. Otherwise, they would have to be fine with walking away from his demands, he then becomes an expiring contract, and is that really worth a lot?

So he's both a max player, yet worth nothing. Sorry, this is hard to believe. The max was not the issue, it was the years, which again, he was going to get from both the Kings and the Pacers. Teams were not unwilling to give him the money, they had no trust that he would stay.

The entire situation was mismanaged, just like the FVV one. If the packages were similar, why keep him an additional year and drag out the situation longer? The FO screwed it up, period.

Pascal isn’t one of your 2 max contracts if you are a true contender, and the max wasn’t just the top dollar, it was also the years clearly, because Masai tried offering a max for a shorter extension.

So him wanting a max deal massively drove down his value.

Fred and Pascal were both the same. They were willing to take the money from whoever would give it to them, and neither are worth those amounts. Teams don’t trade quality assets for overrated players that are going to be overpaid.

Just be happy Raps are not paying them. They could have easily been in the situation the Bulls are in now.

Also, Kings were never a legitimate trade partner because they were not going to pay Pascal - they couldn’t afford to with Sabonis and Fox getting paid. Pascal would have never agreed to a deal there, because he wouldn’t want his bird rights with a team refusing to pay him.

[Vampirate]

I think it's a pretty reasonable expectation that a player with a year+ on their contract will typically net more than an expiring who is an extreme flight risk.

As for his contract request killing his value, I'm gonna have to say no to that. He still got a max, the Kings were willing to give him a max, he publicly killed his value by saying he's not signing anywhere else. Which is something that very likely is avoided, if you trade him before he's an expiring.

How much of a difference the return would have been is a different story. Lowe as keyed in as he is, "similar" is up for interpretation. What if we were offered AJ + filler from the Hawks, but 3 mid/bad picks + filler from the pacers. You could consider that similar in overall value, but similar in actual assets. The Hawks could not have offered us a similar package in the way of picks since they don't have the same assets, same for the Kings and whoever else may have been in discussion.

Again, if we blame it on trading him as an expiring, trading him 1 or 2 years ago, him poisoning the well, or really any other symptom that resulted in a lower return, it's still the FO that caused or could have avoided it. The FO was entirely in the drivers seat until the summer when they went scorched earth, which is again, their fault. Siakam isn't to blame directly for his return, the other teams aren't, our FO is.

The moment Pascal refused the Raps extension offer, it was then known around the league he was looking for another max deal. At that point, any team trading for him had to be willing to extend him on a max. The only team that could offer him the most was the team he was on.

At that point teams offered crap, because they knew if they were going to have to pay him, his trade value was not worth much.

Zach Lowe said on his podcast, the offers he heard for Pascal were not that much different than what the Raps ultimately got. So teams were offering mid picks after Pascal refused the extension.

Having the extra year doesn't rally matter if the team is intent on resigning him. Otherwise, they would have to be fine with walking away from his demands, he then becomes an expiring contract, and is that really worth a lot?

So he's both a max player, yet worth nothing. Sorry, this is hard to believe. The max was not the issue, it was the years, which again, he was going to get from both the Kings and the Pacers. Teams were not unwilling to give him the money, they had no trust that he would stay.

The entire situation was mismanaged, just like the FVV one. If the packages were similar, why keep him an additional year and drag out the situation longer? The FO screwed it up, period.

In the end we really need to see what Barnes can do as the defacto #1 option/best player. The return was poor but keeping Siakam any longer would just prolong what really needs to be done.

[Scase]

The moment Pascal refused the Raps extension offer, it was then known around the league he was looking for another max deal. At that point, any team trading for him had to be willing to extend him on a max. The only team that could offer him the most was the team he was on.

At that point teams offered crap, because they knew if they were going to have to pay him, his trade value was not worth much.

Zach Lowe said on his podcast, the offers he heard for Pascal were not that much different than what the Raps ultimately got. So teams were offering mid picks after Pascal refused the extension.

Having the extra year doesn't rally matter if the team is intent on resigning him. Otherwise, they would have to be fine with walking away from his demands, he then becomes an expiring contract, and is that really worth a lot?

So he's both a max player, yet worth nothing. Sorry, this is hard to believe. The max was not the issue, it was the years, which again, he was going to get from both the Kings and the Pacers. Teams were not unwilling to give him the money, they had no trust that he would stay.

The entire situation was mismanaged, just like the FVV one. If the packages were similar, why keep him an additional year and drag out the situation longer? The FO screwed it up, period.

Pascal isn’t one of your 2 max contracts if you are a true contender, and the max wasn’t just the top dollar, it was also the years clearly, because Masai tried offering a max for a shorter extension.

So him wanting a max deal massively drove down his value.

Fred and Pascal were both the same. They were willing to take the money from whoever would give it to them, and neither are worth those amounts. Teams don’t trade quality assets for overrated players that are going to be overpaid.

Just be happy Raps are not paying them. They could have easily been in the situation the Bulls are in now.

Also, Kings were never a legitimate trade partner because they were not going to pay Pascal - they couldn’t afford to with Sabonis and Fox getting paid. Pascal would have never agreed to a deal there, because he wouldn’t want his bird rights with a team refusing to pay him.

I agree with pretty much all of this, I may have accidentally lumped you in with the folks who keep saying that Siakam is "worth" a max contract, my apologies!

The Kings rumours made it sound like they were willing to max him, but that he was unwilling to commit to anywhere but the Raps at the time, so that's the only "I don't know" bit about it. According to this though, Siakam burned that bridge because he felt slighted by them devaluing him publicly to try and lower the acquisition cost.

Read on Twitter

Sidery is apparently a very trustworthy source on the Kings side as well, so I'd be inclined to believe it.

[binjumper]

I think it's a pretty reasonable expectation that a player with a year+ on their contract will typically net more than an expiring who is an extreme flight risk.

As for his contract request killing his value, I'm gonna have to say no to that. He still got a max, the Kings were willing to give him a max, he publicly killed his value by saying he's not signing anywhere else. Which is something that very likely is avoided, if you trade him before he's an expiring.

How much of a difference the return would have been is a different story. Lowe as keyed in as he is, "similar" is up for interpretation. What if we were offered AJ + filler from the Hawks, but 3 mid/bad picks + filler from the pacers. You could consider that similar in overall value, but similar in actual assets. The Hawks could not have offered us a similar package in the way of picks since they don't have the same assets, same for the Kings and whoever else may have been in discussion.

Again, if we blame it on trading him as an expiring, trading him 1 or 2 years ago, him poisoning the well, or really any other symptom that resulted in a lower return, it's still the FO that caused or could have avoided it. The FO was entirely in the drivers seat until the summer when they went scorched earth, which is again, their fault. Siakam isn't to blame directly for his return, the other teams aren't, our FO is.

The moment Pascal refused the Raps extension offer, it was then known around the league he was looking for another max deal. At that point, any team trading for him had to be willing to extend him on a max. The only team that could offer him the most was the team he was on.

At that point teams offered crap, because they knew if they were going to have to pay him, his trade value was not worth much.

Zach Lowe said on his podcast, the offers he heard for Pascal were not that much different than what the Raps ultimately got. So teams were offering mid picks after Pascal refused the extension.

Having the extra year doesn't rally matter if the team is intent on resigning him. Otherwise, they would have to be fine with walking away from his demands, he then becomes an expiring contract, and is that really worth a lot?

So he's both a max player, yet worth nothing. Sorry, this is hard to believe. The max was not the issue, it was the years, which again, he was going to get from both the Kings and the Pacers. Teams were not unwilling to give him the money, they had no trust that he would stay.

The entire situation was mismanaged, just like the FVV one. If the packages were similar, why keep him an additional year and drag out the situation longer? The FO screwed it up, period.

How many times you gonna beat a dead horse on every thread bro. Just let it go. The constant FO mismanage crying is getting unbearable. Find a new girl go, touch some grass, do something. FVV call it what you want the dude got superstar money he was gone with that offer regardless. Learn to move on instead of crying about spilt milk.

[Scase]

The moment Pascal refused the Raps extension offer, it was then known around the league he was looking for another max deal. At that point, any team trading for him had to be willing to extend him on a max. The only team that could offer him the most was the team he was on.

At that point teams offered crap, because they knew if they were going to have to pay him, his trade value was not worth much.

Zach Lowe said on his podcast, the offers he heard for Pascal were not that much different than what the Raps ultimately got. So teams were offering mid picks after Pascal refused the extension.

Having the extra year doesn't rally matter if the team is intent on resigning him. Otherwise, they would have to be fine with walking away from his demands, he then becomes an expiring contract, and is that really worth a lot?

So he's both a max player, yet worth nothing. Sorry, this is hard to believe. The max was not the issue, it was the years, which again, he was going to get from both the Kings and the Pacers. Teams were not unwilling to give him the money, they had no trust that he would stay.

The entire situation was mismanaged, just like the FVV one. If the packages were similar, why keep him an additional year and drag out the situation longer? The FO screwed it up, period.

How many times you gonna beat a dead horse on every thread bro. Just let it go. The constant FO mismanage crying is getting unbearable. Find a new girl go, touch some grass, do something. FVV call it what you want the dude got superstar money he was gone with that offer regardless. Learn to move on instead of crying about spilt milk.

Don't like it, don't read it.

It's relevant to the discussion no matter your feels.

[Potential]

Wow already? Indiana could make the 2nd round next season if they improve the roster. See what they can get for Haliburton and fill out the rest

Nembhard/McConnell
Sheppard/Mathurin
Nesmith/
Siakam/Toppin
Turner/Walker

[tecumseh18]

ESPN not impressed.


https://espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/40387163/nba-free-agency-2024-reaction-grades-biggest-signings

Deal:

Agreed to a reported four-year max extension with forward Pascal Siakam

Grade: B-

....

On one level, a 30% max -- currently projected at $42.3 million, though subject to change when the salary cap is set on June 30, with the possibility that an unusually short set of series in the conference finals and Finals could mean the NBA's basketball-related income for this season falls short of expectations -- is surely an overpay for Siakam, who has made just two All-Star Games in his career and wasn't a serious contender this season.

Ignoring the 2 all-NBAs and contribution to a championship, but fine.

[bballsparkin]

Wow already? Indiana could make the 2nd round next season if they improve the roster. See what they can get for Haliburton and fill out the rest

Nembhard/McConnell
Sheppard/Mathurin
Nesmith/
Siakam/Toppin
Turner/Walker

I like it. Cash in on Haliburton.

[PushDaRock]

ESPN not impressed.


https://espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/40387163/nba-free-agency-2024-reaction-grades-biggest-signings

Deal:

Agreed to a reported four-year max extension with forward Pascal Siakam

Grade: B-

....

On one level, a 30% max -- currently projected at $42.3 million, though subject to change when the salary cap is set on June 30, with the possibility that an unusually short set of series in the conference finals and Finals could mean the NBA's basketball-related income for this season falls short of expectations -- is surely an overpay for Siakam, who has made just two All-Star Games in his career and wasn't a serious contender this season.

Ignoring the 2 all-NBAs and contribution to a championship, but fine.

He probably should have made the ASG over Scottie this year.

[Scase]

ESPN not impressed.


https://espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/40387163/nba-free-agency-2024-reaction-grades-biggest-signings

Deal:

Agreed to a reported four-year max extension with forward Pascal Siakam

Grade: B-

....

On one level, a 30% max -- currently projected at $42.3 million, though subject to change when the salary cap is set on June 30, with the possibility that an unusually short set of series in the conference finals and Finals could mean the NBA's basketball-related income for this season falls short of expectations -- is surely an overpay for Siakam, who has made just two All-Star Games in his career and wasn't a serious contender this season.

Ignoring the 2 all-NBAs and contribution to a championship, but fine.

He probably should have made the ASG over Scottie this year.

Kinda says something that he didn't.

[dTox]

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