Bulls trade Alex Caruso to OKC for Josh Giddey

[Skybox]

Giddey’s a very intriguing player. He’s got some holes in his game to work on but that BBIQ & court vision can’t be taught. He’s still very young and big for the way he plays. I don’t know about taking the ball out of Coby’s hands, but that's when Giddey is best. I like it for both timelines. Caruso bringing back a lottery pick was fantasy. The mythology of Caruso is a lot bigger than the actual guy. Solid role player. Great add-on for a contender….31, expiring, just hit his career best 12ppg…good, but selective shooter, slightly better Gary Harris…got on the national radar for being a guy (on LAL of course) who looks like your dad dunking on occasion while Lebron laughs on the bench…evolved into a solid, 3&D rotation guy….Giddey could be something bigger than that.

[Jeffster81]

Not going to be competing for a long time, so whatever.

[Dez]

I also could see Caruso being the better player in 4 years, fwiw. Giddey kind of seems like the type who’ll be out the league.

AK is really banking on this shooting coach. It’s borderline insanity. The best teams still shoot *very well* from atleast 4 positions on the floor.

My God I'm going to have an aneurysm from the amount of stupid takes in this thread.

One more time.

26.3% 1st year
32.5% 2nd year
33.7% 3rd year

He's improved his shot every year.

Giddey has talent, but there have been games i’ve seen where the guy looked like a clown in the NBA. His ceiling his fine but his floor is low, ala Vuc, and I think the playoff minute snub is very telling. He couldn’t crack 30 mpg; then he got DNP’d.

His ankles sometimes look like they’re about to dissolve. In fact his NBA debut was kind of like that, with an injury.

Meanwhile, Caruso is probably joining the Gafford and DJJ club. He’ll be starting in a finals game in the next 1-3 years (if not more). I think he has room for a jump, because now he’s gonna have more spacing than ever, and his shot did improve. He’s also in great shape and a very hard worker.

AK is trying to build an NBL team. I bet Vuc sticks around too. He’s probably thinking of ways to get that man some better PnR passes. Our defense is going to be BBQ, and we still won’t have a guy capable of penetrating the rim.

Basically this trade is yet another high risk chip that may do nothing for AK. 1y rfa who needs to strongly develop his shot, coming off a quiet but very awkward underage sex scandal. Bad return for an all-defensive player in his prime.

AK doesn’t have room for risks anymore. Unless he plans to try and Cooper Flag it; but we don’t know that.

The "playoff minute snub" isn't a thing, he struggled in a role that wasn't suited to his skill set. It's like people have only seen Giddey play in that one series

Caruso isn't going to make a jump, he's an elite defensive player whose play style leads to injuries and is a streaky shooter.

I look forward to the 180 people do when they realise what he can actually do when he has the ball in his hands.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Honestly I cant think of any Bulls trade where Bulls fans didnt overreact like this.

I think yall would have found a way to complain when we traded Will Perdue for Dennis Rodman lol.

[coldfish]

Here is Chicago's roster as of right now:
PG White / Ayo / Giddey / Ball / Carter
SG Lavine
SF Phillips / Terry
PF Williams / Craig
C Vucevic

That's some top tier team building there.

.....

One thing I haven't really heard discussed much is that Giddey is probably not as good as White and Ayo. Giddey isn't an off ball guy.

While he is an intriguing prospect due to his age, this team is a hot mess personnel wise.

[dougthonus]

While true, you would hope we would have a little more patience and perhaps leverage given they are one or two pieces away, and there is only one AC sized swiss army knife that fills one of those holes for them available.

I get making a deal, but I also can see a trend of not maximizing value or a clear strategy towards ____. I mean that's a point you were on way before I came to see it.

We traded a 30 year old, one way, defensive, bench, role player on an expiring deal who will be a UFA for the former #6 pick in the draft, who has been a 3 year starter, flashed star potential (and real start potential, not Patrick Williams, he made one good play once star potential, but like possibly a triple double machine star potential) that's 21 years old.

I think people doth protest too much when saying we didn't get good value back.

1: Got way younger
2: Got way more potential
3: Got a better contract situation (UFA vs RFA)

I know Bulls fans love Alex Caruso, but Alex Caruso wasn't prime LeBron.

[RSP83]

Sigh ... at least we're getting back a high IQ player who has potential to be a solid starter in this league. The lack of picks is a let down though, especially when you know that offer was on the table.

We have no idea what offers were on the table.

But if Presti offered Giddey or the #12 pick (not both) which one would you choose?

You're right. Anyway after listening to several podcast takes on the trade. I think this trade starts growing on me. Giddey may not be be the best return, but he's far from the worst. I mean we're talking about trading a 30-year old expiring contract for a 21 year-old former lottery pick who actually pans out (compared to our very own PWill). I, at least, think we shouldn't be arguing on whether we get ourselves a good talent, which Giddey is. If we're going to argue on why there's no pick attached, go ahead. Doesn't bother me.

Now, I'm feeling more certain that AK is going to extend DeMar. I think AK sees Giddey as somebody who can play next to DeMar judging from how he play next to another mid-range player in SGA. And Giddey is a better fit next to DeMar than Zach.

The next guy gone will be Zach. Giddey trade sealed his fate with this team for good. And I also feel extending Pat is no longer certain. Let's see what happen next. I feel that Paul George rumor could be a possibility. I don't know whether I like that or not, but just saying.

[coldfish]

Honestly I cant think of any Bulls trade where Bulls fans didnt overreact like this.

I think yell would have found a way to complain when we traded Will Perdue for Dennis Rodman lol.

Most of the other fans on realgm think that Chicago got screwed here. Its not just us. If anything, this thread is far more pro-Chicago than you get on the other boards where they think OKC bent the Bulls over.

[dougthonus]

Reaction around the league from every pundit I’ve listened to/read is shock that the Thunder didn’t have to include any picks. Bobby Marks said that he texted two GMs around the league about their reaction to the trade and both immediately asked what draft capital the Bulls got. I think the consensus out there is that the Bulls didn’t get as much for Caruso as they could have.

I like Giddey the player in a nutshell, but his trade value is at a all-time low whereas Caruso is an incredibly sought after player who is viewed as a needle mover. This may ultimately work out just fine for the Bulls, but the trade itself wasn’t good.

Consensus out there was the Bulls made a great move when they got Vuc. Consensus was signing Ben Wallace and letting Tyson Chandler go was a suave set of transactions. Consensus is often stupid, and it's especially stupid when you trade old for young, because so much of the consensus is around what a guy is at this exact moment and putting blinders on to what will happen in the future.

But either way, I agree, my opinion is in the minority, but that doesn't make me think I'm wrong.

I'd also say, it's probably obvious the Bulls were shopping Caruso for a long time, and canvased the league looking for deals, and this was the deal they liked the most. Maybe they could have held out for more, maybe not, but I wouldn't assume that they didn't try and they didn't play teams off each other.

[dougthonus]

People on this board keep bringing up AC being in a contract year but I don’t really see any evidence that it impacted his trade value significantly. It seems like he still was sought after.

More people want bottled water than greg goose, but it doesn't mean they'll pay more for it.

[dougthonus]

OKC could say no to adding picks and the Bulls could say no to doing the trade without them.

I've said this before, but I don't think AK values picks so he probably didn't even ask for them.

We could say no, and then we could move on to a different trade, and that trade probably isn't giving us a 21 year old, high potential, 3 year starter, and the draft picks we get (likely not ones that will land in the lottery, because teams who can use Caruso by and large don't have any of those) will almost certainly yield worse players.

[MrSparkle]

My God I'm going to have an aneurysm from the amount of stupid takes in this thread.

One more time.

26.3% 1st year
32.5% 2nd year
33.7% 3rd year

He's improved his shot every year.

Giddey has talent, but there have been games i’ve seen where the guy looked like a clown in the NBA. His ceiling his fine but his floor is low, ala Vuc, and I think the playoff minute snub is very telling. He couldn’t crack 30 mpg; then he got DNP’d.

His ankles sometimes look like they’re about to dissolve. In fact his NBA debut was kind of like that, with an injury.

Meanwhile, Caruso is probably joining the Gafford and DJJ club. He’ll be starting in a finals game in the next 1-3 years (if not more). I think he has room for a jump, because now he’s gonna have more spacing than ever, and his shot did improve. He’s also in great shape and a very hard worker.

AK is trying to build an NBL team. I bet Vuc sticks around too. He’s probably thinking of ways to get that man some better PnR passes. Our defense is going to be BBQ, and we still won’t have a guy capable of penetrating the rim.

Basically this trade is yet another high risk chip that may do nothing for AK. 1y rfa who needs to strongly develop his shot, coming off a quiet but very awkward underage sex scandal. Bad return for an all-defensive player in his prime.

AK doesn’t have room for risks anymore. Unless he plans to try and Cooper Flag it; but we don’t know that.

The "playoff minute snub" isn't a thing, he struggled in a role that wasn't suited to his skill set. It's like people have only seen Giddey play in that one series

Caruso isn't going to make a jump, he's an elite defensive player whose play style leads to injuries and is a streaky shooter.

I look forward to the 180 people do when they realise what he can actually do when he has the ball in his hands.

Yeah, sure. We’re gonna be a play-in special with the ball in his hands.

The NBA has proven time and time again that a good passer is only as good as his 3P shot. No better passing prospect than Rubio. If he can’t shoot at a high level, then he’s a roleplayer. If he’s a roleplayer, then we just traded the best one for a barely playable one.

I don’t roll with the ESPN hot takes, but in this case, i think 100% of the twitter BB world is correct. This was a fleecing. Arturas undersells his assets, and just isn’t good at running the show.

[weneeda2guard]

I prefer getting a young prospect with some upside who could at least possibly come here and blossom, then adding a couple more "Portland 1st convert to two seconds rounders" type of picks. The picks we would have gotten would have just been adding salary. They wouldn't have been worth much. Oh we think the picks would have helped facilitate other deals? Well why aren't they helping to facilitate deals for the other teams that are sitting on a plethora of picks? If a star player doesn't want to join your organization, you can have 30 picks in the next 5 drafts and it won't help you at all if that star doesn't want to come.

If i were to take a guess, the Bulls probably tried to extend Caruso and he turned it down. Which led to the trade. He can't hit free agency and leave for nothing.

[pylb]

Here is Chicago's roster as of right now:
PG White / Ayo / Giddey / Ball / Carter
SG Lavine
SF Phillips / Terry
PF Williams / Craig
C Vucevic

That's some top tier team building there.

.....

One thing I haven't really heard discussed much is that Giddey is probably not as good as White and Ayo. Giddey isn't an off ball guy.

While he is an intriguing prospect due to his age, this team is a hot mess personnel wise.

I would expect giddey to play at sg or sf and on the ball. Coby can play off the ball while playing pg positionally.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Honestly I cant think of any Bulls trade where Bulls fans didnt overreact like this.

I think yell would have found a way to complain when we traded Will Perdue for Dennis Rodman lol.

Most of the other fans on realgm think that Chicago got screwed here. Its not just us. If anything, this thread is far more pro-Chicago than you get on the other boards where they think OKC bent the Bulls over.

I think the offseason Giddey is clouding judgement though. That is very common when it comes to players that have bag-ish situations.

My goto is proove to me that anyone would complain even in the slightest if we traded Alex last year for Josh Giddey. OKC would have laughed at us.

In so many ways, his checkered offseason and moving the ball more in SGAs hands was the perfect storm to allow a deal like that to even happen in the first place.

This is equal to them trading Jalen Williams for Jrue Holiday.

[dougthonus]

Here is Chicago's roster as of right now:
PG White / Ayo / Giddey / Ball / Carter
SG Lavine
SF Phillips / Terry
PF Williams / Craig
C Vucevic

That's some top tier team building there.

.....

One thing I haven't really heard discussed much is that Giddey is probably not as good as White and Ayo. Giddey isn't an off ball guy.

While he is an intriguing prospect due to his age, this team is a hot mess personnel wise.

Ayo's more a SG than a PG IMO. He's not a pure passer, and he's definitely sized as a SG and has the defensive capability to defend 1-3. He can play SG, but if he keeps up his open 3 point shooting, he's a really good fit next to Giddey. Coby shoots way better off ball than on ball, so I don't think it's a huge problem to play him next to Giddey either, though the defensive pairing there is certainly more dicey, and Giddey's 6'8, so you can hide him on a bigger but less athletic guys the other team often trots out there, and he can keep them off the glass / defend the three point line.

That said, I agree that the Bulls roster is a mess, but it's primarily a mess if they bring back Vuc and DeRozan, those two guys do not fit around someone like Giddey at all, you can't have three non shooters out there, and it's obvious those guys don't fit the timeline.

If we could somehow flip DeRozan and Vuc into a really good defensive center, and a 3&D wing then keep Zach, then the Bulls would be really intriguing with Giddey setting everyone up and and a defensive stopper behind them, but that's probably a tall order.

Relative to Coby and Ayo, I think Coby might be the most overrated Bull I've seen. He had one super hot month where he shot like 60% from three and people started thinking star potential when it was obvious he would not keep that up because Steph Curry couldn't keep that up, and outside of that, he went back to being what looks like a bench gunner to me. Still only a moderate efficiency scorer with limited passing vision and defensive ability. Giddey has different flaws, but more talent IMO. If Giddey can actually learn to shoot, his upside would destroy any reasonable improvement you could project onto Coby or Ayo.

Of the three Ayo has the highest floor and is the most versatile, he's a legit NBA multi-position defender, and looks like a capable open 3 point shooter with decent ball handling skills and some creation. Ayo's going to be a valuable guy in the league for the next 15 years that can fit onto literally any team, because every team will need what he does given he might have the two most important strengths, and no meaningful weaknesses, but he also likely has the lowest ceiling.

Coby/Giddey are guys that will also likely have long careers and have more potential to make a larger impact, but they will be niche fits because they have important flaws that are unlikely to be corrected and will only make that larger impact if put in the right situation and will be less valuable in a generic situation.

The Bulls need to be thoughtful about how they build their team with guys like Coby/Giddey and that's certainly more complicated and difficult.

[League Circles]

While true, you would hope we would have a little more patience and perhaps leverage given they are one or two pieces away, and there is only one AC sized swiss army knife that fills one of those holes for them available.

I get making a deal, but I also can see a trend of not maximizing value or a clear strategy towards ____. I mean that's a point you were on way before I came to see it.

We traded a 30 year old, one way, defensive, bench, role player on an expiring deal who will be a UFA for the former #6 pick in the draft, who has been a 3 year starter, flashed star potential (and real start potential, not Patrick Williams, he made one good play once star potential, but like possibly a triple double machine star potential) that's 21 years old.

I think people doth protest too much when saying we didn't get good value back.

1: Got way younger
2: Got way more potential
3: Got a better contract situation (UFA vs RFA)

I know Bulls fans love Alex Caruso, but Alex Caruso wasn't prime LeBron.

Not only that, but we we literally just got arguably our best playmaker since..............

Giddey for his career (man oh man has he played / contributed a lot for a 21 year old already!) has better assist / 36 and assist % than basically every Bull I can ever recall other than one year of Rondo, 2 years of Derrick Rose. We're talking better than virtually every year of Michael and Scottie!

Now, probably part of that is pace I'm guessing, but still, we just got one of our best playmakers EVER. And he's also a really good rebounder.

These are two MAJOR weaknesses of our team. MUCH bigger weaknesses than what Caruso provided (spot up 3 and D which are provided pretty well by Ayo and Patrick).

I still don't think it will amount to much cause I'm so biased in favor of strong defenders and I'm not sure he has a position where he won't be a minus, but if Caruso was to be traded for the single highest potential player prospect available, Giddey was probably it. If I had to guess I don't think giddy will be an answer for us and we will let him walk in a year. Or it will be so questionable that he will be resigned for cheap and maybe just be a good bench player for us. But I didn't think Caruso was going to help us long-term either because we were going to let him walk. This is a great win now and potential long-term upside move all in one. Oh and we save money this year lol!

Great trade, even though it probably won't be some kind of big answer.

It's not even that Bulls fans have forgotten what it's like to have a great playmaker because we have almost never really had a player like that ever.

I just hate the idea that him and Coby are going to be defending the opposing back court which I just don't see happening. I think giddy will defend forwards when he's on the court. Although if damar comes back I think giddy is going to be playing the Demar role off the bench. Which is great as far as I'm concerned.

[League Circles]

Honestly I cant think of any Bulls trade where Bulls fans didnt overreact like this.

I think yell would have found a way to complain when we traded Will Perdue for Dennis Rodman lol.

Most of the other fans on realgm think that Chicago got screwed here. Its not just us. If anything, this thread is far more pro-Chicago than you get on the other boards where they think OKC bent the Bulls over.

Another poster put it well. I think yesterday in this thread when he said that too many fans judge trades based on asset value exchange, whereas he just compares the roster projections going forward before and after the trade for each team. That is how I have always thought of trades as well. Yes, Caruso is definitely better than giddy right now, but the Bulls have just improved their roster for next year and improved their upside long-term at the same time, despite cruso being the better player right now. It's really just because giddy provides things we desperately need, whereas Caruso provides something that we happen to already be pretty well set on.

The Bulls are lacking play making to make their offense go much more so than they are lacking spot up three-point shooting which they are underrated at outside of Vuc. The problem is we don't get enough good shots and we don't get anybody creating super easy buckets.

[dougthonus]

Honestly I cant think of any Bulls trade where Bulls fans didnt overreact like this.

I think yell would have found a way to complain when we traded Will Perdue for Dennis Rodman lol.

Most of the other fans on realgm think that Chicago got screwed here. Its not just us. If anything, this thread is far more pro-Chicago than you get on the other boards where they think OKC bent the Bulls over.

Most fans thought we won the Vuc trade.

Most fans also only watch the playoffs and their feeling about Giddey is based on him doing poorly against the Mavs.

[League Circles]

I'm as big of a Demar fan as there is, but he will not work with Giddey on the court at the same time.

My preference is for Giddey to basically play the primary ball handler role off the bench while Demar continues doing it with the starters, but I'm more open to letting Demar walk or sign and trading him than I was before.

No way should Giddey and Demar be starting together.

This is why we need to sort out what we're doing with Zach immediately, because it will guide what we should do with Demar.

There is a situation where Demar and Giddey make sense on the same roster, but almost certainly not with Zach also.

One more thing - Giddey MIGHT now be flipped in a bigger, better trade package.