Zach Edey, 7-4

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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1301 » by facothomas22 » Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:48 pm

GoBobs wrote:I see him averaging at lest 15/10/1 as a rookie, but even more scoring wouldn't surprise me. That will break down to 5 fgs and 5 fts per game. He will also be able to really limit the scoring of other post threat centers like Jokic in iso situations, but will have some problems defending the pick and roll as he will be strictly a drop coverage big.



This is quite a ridiculous prediction. He's likely not going to get the playing time needed to get this sort of production in his rookie season and his mobility issues could prevent him from any big minutes in general. If scouts saw he could be 15/10 guy or even more right away, then he would've mocked to be a top 5 pick, instead of at best a late lottery pick to at worst a pick in the low 20s in what's viewed as a weak draft class.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1302 » by MalonesElbows » Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:04 pm

I was stunned to see Edey beat Clingan on every athletic test measured at the combine.

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility?CF=POSITION*E*C&SeasonYear=2024&dir=A&sort=LANE_AGILITY_TIME

I don't disagree Clingan looks more fluid in game - faster reaction time.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1303 » by CptCrunch » Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:51 pm

tester551 wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:Can we put some lines in the sand here for all the mega Edey fans to get on record in terms of what they envision Edey to be.

See, I don't see Edey being a NBA player in the average case. He shouldn't be drafted in the first round.

What is the bar for Edey being good? I don't want see gloating if Edey ends up as a 25th best center in the league. If Edey ends up being a below average starting center, will you guys admit that you were wrong?

It seems like if Edey ends up being a below average starting C, your evaluation of him is more wrong than theirs.... You don't think he's even an NBA player.

My projection of Edey (and Clingan for that matter) is a below average starting C to a high end backup.
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Reading comprehension is important. No where does it state that I am 'more right' if Edey is just a role player.

I have already stated my opinion of Edey multiple times. In the median case, he isn't in a NBA player. If he can survive on defense; he can a be an efficient bench scorer who ruins your offense by becoming the offense, a starter on a bad team, a bench center for a good one. But the probability of this hapening is quite low by my estimation. Just for reference, here is my project for Edey. He has a very fat tail of good, but his median outcome is incredibly low.

Image

But it is clear that Edey fans are too scared to put a stake in the sand.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1304 » by azcatz11 » Sat Jun 22, 2024 2:17 pm

GoBobs wrote:I see him averaging at lest 15/10/1 as a rookie, but even more scoring wouldn't surprise me. That will break down to 5 fgs and 5 fts per game. He will also be able to really limit the scoring of other post threat centers like Jokic in iso situations, but will have some problems defending the pick and roll as he will be strictly a drop coverage big.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1305 » by WinterSoldier » Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:06 pm

CptCrunch wrote:
tester551 wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:Can we put some lines in the sand here for all the mega Edey fans to get on record in terms of what they envision Edey to be.

See, I don't see Edey being a NBA player in the average case. He shouldn't be drafted in the first round.

What is the bar for Edey being good? I don't want see gloating if Edey ends up as a 25th best center in the league. If Edey ends up being a below average starting center, will you guys admit that you were wrong?

It seems like if Edey ends up being a below average starting C, your evaluation of him is more wrong than theirs.... You don't think he's even an NBA player.

My projection of Edey (and Clingan for that matter) is a below average starting C to a high end backup.
Somewhere between Hartenstein and Zubac


Reading comprehension is important. No where does it state that I am 'more right' if Edey is just a role player.

I have already stated my opinion of Edey multiple times. In the median case, he isn't in a NBA player. If he can survive on defense; he can a be an efficient bench scorer who ruins your offense by becoming the offense, a starter on a bad team, a bench center for a good one. But the probability of this hapening is quite low by my estimation. Just for reference, here is my project for Edey. He has a very fat tail of good, but his median outcome is incredibly low.

Image

But it is clear that Edey fans are too scared to put a stake in the sand.


Why don't you show your wave prediction of all the first round players in the draft and we can see how well your predictions play out. Or is this just an arbitrary prediction you made up for Edey hoping it proves true.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1306 » by ItsDanger » Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:15 pm

This chart above is worthless. The bust rate in a weak draft is high. If you don't understand risk/reward in the current scenario, nothing said here will change that.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1307 » by GoBobs » Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:24 pm

Pattycakes wrote:
GoBobs wrote:I see him averaging at lest 15/10/1 as a rookie, but even more scoring wouldn't surprise me. That will break down to 5 fgs and 5 fts per game. He will also be able to really limit the scoring of other post threat centers like Jokic in iso situations, but will have some problems defending the pick and roll as he will be strictly a drop coverage big.


That would make him the number one pick, no?


He should be
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1308 » by GoBobs » Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:32 pm

facothomas22 wrote:
GoBobs wrote:I see him averaging at lest 15/10/1 as a rookie, but even more scoring wouldn't surprise me. That will break down to 5 fgs and 5 fts per game. He will also be able to really limit the scoring of other post threat centers like Jokic in iso situations, but will have some problems defending the pick and roll as he will be strictly a drop coverage big.



This is quite a ridiculous prediction. He's likely not going to get the playing time needed to get this sort of production in his rookie season and his mobility issues could prevent him from any big minutes in general. If scouts saw he could be 15/10 guy or even more right away, then he would've mocked to be a top 5 pick, instead of at best a late lottery pick to at worst a pick in the low 20s in what's viewed as a weak draft class.


Playing time is going to depend on situation he gets drafted into. What people are missing though is he played in a very crowded paint during his time at Purdue. The spacing in the NBA is going to make things easier for him.

Lopez averaged 13 pts his rookie year at 20 years old, and jumped to 18 pts his second year. Edey is bigger, better and coming into the league with more experience than Lopez.

The people saying he won't get post touches ect because the game is different are overthinking it. He puts the ball in the basket. Guys are going to pass him the ball when they figure that out. He is going to get touches as the roll man in the pick and roll and he is going to get touches on offensive rebounds. He is going to get fouled because it is hard to guard a guy that is 7'5'' 300 lbs.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1309 » by CptCrunch » Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:51 pm

WinterSoldier wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:
tester551 wrote:It seems like if Edey ends up being a below average starting C, your evaluation of him is more wrong than theirs.... You don't think he's even an NBA player.

My projection of Edey (and Clingan for that matter) is a below average starting C to a high end backup.
Somewhere between Hartenstein and Zubac


Reading comprehension is important. No where does it state that I am 'more right' if Edey is just a role player.

I have already stated my opinion of Edey multiple times. In the median case, he isn't in a NBA player. If he can survive on defense; he can a be an efficient bench scorer who ruins your offense by becoming the offense, a starter on a bad team, a bench center for a good one. But the probability of this hapening is quite low by my estimation. Just for reference, here is my project for Edey. He has a very fat tail of good, but his median outcome is incredibly low.

Image

But it is clear that Edey fans are too scared to put a stake in the sand.


Why don't you show your wave prediction of all the first round players in the draft and we can see how well your predictions play out. Or is this just an arbitrary prediction you made up for Edey hoping it proves true.


As predictive as the other sewage predictions posted in this thread of Edey becoming a NBA goat. You can check my big board. Link yours. Mine is public on the sub-forum.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1310 » by CptCrunch » Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:53 pm

ItsDanger wrote:This chart above is worthless. The bust rate in a weak draft is high. If you don't understand risk/reward in the current scenario, nothing said here will change that.


Integrate the curve and normalize. Edey's median expectation is basement bottom. His upside is why he should never be drafted instead of being non-draftable.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1311 » by ItsDanger » Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:57 pm

CptCrunch wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:This chart above is worthless. The bust rate in a weak draft is high. If you don't understand risk/reward in the current scenario, nothing said here will change that.


Integrate the curve and normalize. Edey's median expectation is basement bottom. His upside is why he should never be drafted instead of being non-draftable.

Isn't mostly relative to where he's drafted? At #1, sure. At #20, the difference is small vs other alternative choices. And that's the achilles heel of these weak arguments presented. Any rational person will acknowledge the high risks with most of these prospects. Especially in this kind of draft.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1312 » by The Moose » Sat Jun 22, 2024 3:58 pm

FarBeyondDriven wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:Can we put some lines in the sand here for all the mega Edey fans to get on record in terms of what they envision Edey to be.

See, I don't see Edey being a NBA player in the average case. He shouldn't be drafted in the first round.

What is the bar for Edey being good? I don't want see gloating if Edey ends up as a 25th best center in the league. If Edey ends up being a below average starting center, will you guys admit that you were wrong?


I'd like to know this too. Just so we have something to go off of. Let's break it down into Tiers. We'll include 4/5 guys because frankly most teams utilize two big lineups and small ball centers and all of these guys will play some form of center. I don't see any chance he's in Tier 1. I could see him in Tier 2 if everything breaks right for him but most likely I see him being in Tier 3 with the likes of Nurkic, Poeltl and Zubac. A low-end starting center and maybe even having to come off the bench. Remember, we'll be adding Sarr, Clingan, Ware, Missi, and Bona too. I dunno. What do others think?

Tier 1

Jokic
Embiid
Wembanyama
Sabonis
AD
Turner
Sengun
KAT
Bam
Porzingis

Tier 2

Lopez
Vucevic
Mobley
Allen
Gobert
Ayton
Holmgren
Capela
Hartenstein
Claxton

Tier 3 (the rest)

Nurkic
Poeltl
Lively
Okongwu
Kessler
Zubac
Robinson
TimeLord
Valanciunas
Williams
Duren
WCj
Adams


I have his median outcome as somewhere in tier 2 according to your lists
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1313 » by CptCrunch » Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:04 pm

That tier 2 list of center is a top 1 pick this draft. At least top 3.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1314 » by facothomas22 » Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:28 pm

GoBobs wrote:
facothomas22 wrote:
GoBobs wrote:I see him averaging at lest 15/10/1 as a rookie, but even more scoring wouldn't surprise me. That will break down to 5 fgs and 5 fts per game. He will also be able to really limit the scoring of other post threat centers like Jokic in iso situations, but will have some problems defending the pick and roll as he will be strictly a drop coverage big.



This is quite a ridiculous prediction. He's likely not going to get the playing time needed to get this sort of production in his rookie season and his mobility issues could prevent him from any big minutes in general. If scouts saw he could be 15/10 guy or even more right away, then he would've mocked to be a top 5 pick, instead of at best a late lottery pick to at worst a pick in the low 20s in what's viewed as a weak draft class.


Playing time is going to depend on situation he gets drafted into. What people are missing though is he played in a very crowded paint during his time at Purdue. The spacing in the NBA is going to make things easier for him.

Lopez averaged 13 pts his rookie year at 20 years old, and jumped to 18 pts his second year. Edey is bigger, better and coming into the league with more experience than Lopez.

The people saying he won't get post touches ect because the game is different are overthinking it. He puts the ball in the basket. Guys are going to pass him the ball when they figure that out. He is going to get touches as the roll man in the pick and roll and he is going to get touches on offensive rebounds. He is going to get fouled because it is hard to guard a guy that is 7'5'' 300 lbs.


I don't see any team giving Zack Edey more than maybe 15 minutes per game in his rookie year,unless they're going all in to tank for Cooper Flagg. He's non mobile big that can get played off the court when being dragged out to the perimeter, which will happen often in the NBA. Outside of the combine, he hasn't shown any real signs that he going to develop a 3pt shot at any point in his career, which is far from ideal in today's NBA.

Brook Lopez is a bad comparison. He came to the NBA when before 3pt shooting became such a massive priority that it is today and the post up big man wasn't seen as ancient . Even then, he had to eventually develop the 3pt shot, otherwise his use in the NBA would be more and more diminished as the game became more perimeter based. Post up big men who can't shoot and has mobility issues in the perimeter focused league that the NBA usually don't get a ton a minutes. Ask Boban Marjanović.

With that said, he think he going to be Ivica Zubic level player. Below average starter, but still serviceable. He's great rebounder as you would expect from someone his size. Good rim protector and a great post up game. More mobile than Boban Marjanovic. Those traits should be enough keep him in the NBA long term. However those traits do not make him a 15/10 guy right way and a rookie of the year contender.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1315 » by GoBobs » Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:32 pm

facothomas22 wrote:
GoBobs wrote:
facothomas22 wrote:

This is quite a ridiculous prediction. He's likely not going to get the playing time needed to get this sort of production in his rookie season and his mobility issues could prevent him from any big minutes in general. If scouts saw he could be 15/10 guy or even more right away, then he would've mocked to be a top 5 pick, instead of at best a late lottery pick to at worst a pick in the low 20s in what's viewed as a weak draft class.


Playing time is going to depend on situation he gets drafted into. What people are missing though is he played in a very crowded paint during his time at Purdue. The spacing in the NBA is going to make things easier for him.

Lopez averaged 13 pts his rookie year at 20 years old, and jumped to 18 pts his second year. Edey is bigger, better and coming into the league with more experience than Lopez.

The people saying he won't get post touches ect because the game is different are overthinking it. He puts the ball in the basket. Guys are going to pass him the ball when they figure that out. He is going to get touches as the roll man in the pick and roll and he is going to get touches on offensive rebounds. He is going to get fouled because it is hard to guard a guy that is 7'5'' 300 lbs.


I don't see any team giving Zack Edey more than maybe 15 minutes per game in his rookie year,unless they're going all in to tank for Cooper Flagg. He's non mobile big that can get played off the court when being dragged out to the perimeter, which will happen often in the NBA. Outside of the combine, he hasn't shown any real signs that he going to develop a 3pt shot at any point in his career, which is far from ideal in today's NBA.

Brook Lopez is a bad comparison. He came to the NBA when before 3pt shooting became such a massive priority that it is today and the post up big man wasn't seen as ancient . Even then, he had to eventually develop the 3pt shot, otherwise his use in the NBA would be more and more diminished as the game became more perimeter based. Post up big men who can't shoot and has mobility issues in the perimeter focused league that the NBA usually don't get a ton a minutes. Ask Boban Marjanović.

With that said, he think he going to be Ivica Zubic level player. Below average starter, but still serviceable. He's great rebounder as you would expect from someone his size. Good rim protector and a great post up game. More mobile than Boban Marjanovic. Those traits should be enough keep him in the NBA long term. However those traits do not make him a 15/10 guy right way and a rookie of the year contender.


Gobert is a non mobile big that can be played off the court when being dragged out to the perimeter. I saw it happen in the playoffs. The difference is Edey has the offense to punish smalls on the other end.

Lopez is a drop covereage only big. There are tons of them in the NBA. You can count the centers capable of switching onto a guard with one hand. Clingan won't be able to switch and stay with guards. Sarr won't be able to switch and stay with guards despite the hype you hear in the media.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1316 » by The Moose » Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:37 pm

CptCrunch wrote:That tier 2 list of center is a top 1 pick this draft. At least top 3.


Top 3, yes, I see there being a clear top 3 for me personally. The order of those 3 is not that important and I have gone back and forth on it

viewtopic.php?f=38&p=113823910#p113823910
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1317 » by CptCrunch » Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:39 pm

The Moose wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:That tier 2 list of center is a top 1 pick this draft. At least top 3.


Top 3, yes, I see there being a clear top 3 for me personally. The order of those 3 is not that important and I have gone back and forth on it

viewtopic.php?f=38&p=113823910#p113823910


Respect the consistent takes on Edey despite being in the opposite direction. One of us will be very wrong.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1318 » by The Moose » Sat Jun 22, 2024 5:25 pm

CptCrunch wrote:
The Moose wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:That tier 2 list of center is a top 1 pick this draft. At least top 3.


Top 3, yes, I see there being a clear top 3 for me personally. The order of those 3 is not that important and I have gone back and forth on it

viewtopic.php?f=38&p=113823910#p113823910


Respect the consistent takes on Edey despite being in the opposite direction. One of us will be very wrong.


Likewise, Edey will be an interesting case.

It just wouldn't be consistent at all with my own draft ranking principles to not have Edey very high.
If he does fail, I would go back and reassess how to sharpen my strategies, it's all still a learning process for me at the end of the day.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1319 » by tester551 » Sat Jun 22, 2024 6:08 pm

CptCrunch wrote:
tester551 wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:Can we put some lines in the sand here for all the mega Edey fans to get on record in terms of what they envision Edey to be.

See, I don't see Edey being a NBA player in the average case. He shouldn't be drafted in the first round.

What is the bar for Edey being good? I don't want see gloating if Edey ends up as a 25th best center in the league. If Edey ends up being a below average starting center, will you guys admit that you were wrong?

It seems like if Edey ends up being a below average starting C, your evaluation of him is more wrong than theirs.... You don't think he's even an NBA player.

My projection of Edey (and Clingan for that matter) is a below average starting C to a high end backup.
Somewhere between Hartenstein and Zubac


Reading comprehension is important. No where does it state that I am 'more right' if Edey is just a role player.

I have already stated my opinion of Edey multiple times. In the median case, he isn't in a NBA player. If he can survive on defense; he can a be an efficient bench scorer who ruins your offense by becoming the offense, a starter on a bad team, a bench center for a good one. But the probability of this hapening is quite low by my estimation. Just for reference, here is my project for Edey. He has a very fat tail of good, but his median outcome is incredibly low.

Image

But it is clear that Edey fans are too scared to put a stake in the sand.

My reading comprehension is just fine.

You were fishing for Edey fans to come say they were wrong if he's a below average starter... Fair play would indicate that you should come admit that you were wrong in your evaluation if he's a below average starter.

My point is that the difference between a good starter & a bad starter is smaller (closer to being correct) than the difference between being a bad starter and being out of the league.
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Re: Zach Edey, 7-4 

Post#1320 » by GoBobs » Sat Jun 22, 2024 8:50 pm

CptCrunch wrote:
tester551 wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:Can we put some lines in the sand here for all the mega Edey fans to get on record in terms of what they envision Edey to be.

See, I don't see Edey being a NBA player in the average case. He shouldn't be drafted in the first round.

What is the bar for Edey being good? I don't want see gloating if Edey ends up as a 25th best center in the league. If Edey ends up being a below average starting center, will you guys admit that you were wrong?

It seems like if Edey ends up being a below average starting C, your evaluation of him is more wrong than theirs.... You don't think he's even an NBA player.

My projection of Edey (and Clingan for that matter) is a below average starting C to a high end backup.
Somewhere between Hartenstein and Zubac


Reading comprehension is important. No where does it state that I am 'more right' if Edey is just a role player.

I have already stated my opinion of Edey multiple times. In the median case, he isn't in a NBA player. If he can survive on defense; he can a be an efficient bench scorer who ruins your offense by becoming the offense, a starter on a bad team, a bench center for a good one. But the probability of this hapening is quite low by my estimation. Just for reference, here is my project for Edey. He has a very fat tail of good, but his median outcome is incredibly low.

Image

But it is clear that Edey fans are too scared to put a stake in the sand.


It is pretty hilarious that you would attempt to make your oponion look scientific by posting a graph that isn't based on any actual data.

I think Edey is going to be good. Just for reference I drew a picture of him dunking on Anthony Davis. About to post it here. LMAO!

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