Bulls trade Alex Caruso to OKC for Josh Giddey

[burlydee]

Finally someone with common sense...

Watch on YouTube

TheFlightMike sucks.

Whenever a player gets accused of inappropriate/criminal behavior, he almost always implies that they are automatically guilty.

He was also just blatantly ripping off and reselling other people's content. YouTube sucks. Too many influencers just stealing and repackaging other people's work.

[jnrjr79]

In terms of player value, Giddey, IMO, is as good as we could hope for for Caruso (assuming Caruso wasn't attached with another asset). My only issue and it's a big concern, is that they couldn't get at least one pick out of the OKC Thunder, which they need. I get having a budget and a mandate to make the playoffs each year.

To do that, without getting top players, you need to load up on players like Giddey throughout your roster, and you need to stockpile picks to keep churning out players. So that way your roster is loaded up on depth which gives you a shot throughout the long season.

Giddey is a nice player and he's only 21. Allegations aside (I do think he's guilty, but I can't force the family of the girl to speak), he's a talented prospect. The Bulls, however, just need more than just one Josh Giddey.

No he’s not guilty and people that call him a pedo are ridiculous when it’s only a 3 year difference between them.

Other NBA players have done real crimes yet fans let it slide they don’t boo them. Even our own Derrick Rose was involved with some bad stuff yet Chicago still loves him.

He’s not “guilty” because he was never charged with anything. It appears he probably did break the law in CA, but it’s also worth nothing that 19 + 17 would not be illegal in most states, including IL. Some states have fairly unreasonable statutory rape laws (i.e a bright line rule at a certain age, with no exception for people who are within 2-3 years of your age), that can result in some pretty absurd consequences.

So, whether or not Giddey broke the law, I think most people wouldn’t be all that stressed out about 19 + 17, particularly when he met her in a place where you had to be 18 to enter and could reasonably have believed she was at least that old.

It’s a funny thing about federalism - these rules are different in every state and, particularly for people who are traveling all the time, it’s not like anyone actually knows the specific rules wherever they go. Once you hit a certain age, it doesn’t matter, since you shouldn’t be messing around with the teenager cohort at all, but when you yourself are a teenager like Giddey was, it’s obviously dicier.

[Stratmaster]

I think there were a lot of exaggerated expectations. I don't think the Bulls could have gotten a better player for Caruso, or a draft pick who turned out to be a better player. I doubt that Giddey will bloom here but not because he can't play. Because he will likely be playing alongside Vuc, and Demar, neither of whom are the type of players who will benefit from what the new guy brings to the table. I can see Coby getting some benefit, although it will be limited.

Now if they want to run Lavine, Coby, Drummond and Javonte alongside him, I think Josh would excel, you would at least have a fun team to watch, and probably end up with the same number of wins as last season.

[DuckIII]

The only downside to this trade so far is the phony pearl clutchers calling Giddey a pedo because instagram told them to.

The basketball related criticisms about draft picks and value are not idiotic like that, but just as confusing. Under the circumstances (which AK created for himself) this was much better value than I expected to get for Caruso.

Too much generic belly aching both in here and nationally based on analyzing the trade in a vacuum rather than taking into consideration all the factors other than “Caruso for Giddey memes?!?”

I see someone who hates this trade for Chicago and I see someone who has no clue what’s been going on with this franchise the last few years, just how badly AK has managed his assets (including AC), and has no appreciation for just how **** we were.

And I say “were” because I’ve concluded despite a mountain of evidence that AK is a Neanderthal, that this means we are at least somewhat rebuilding and that we’ll see more moves consistent with that on draft day and during free agency.

I’m the “happiest” I’ve been with the Bulls in years.

[jStuNNa]

In terms of player value, Giddey, IMO, is as good as we could hope for for Caruso (assuming Caruso wasn't attached with another asset). My only issue and it's a big concern, is that they couldn't get at least one pick out of the OKC Thunder, which they need. I get having a budget and a mandate to make the playoffs each year.

To do that, without getting top players, you need to load up on players like Giddey throughout your roster, and you need to stockpile picks to keep churning out players. So that way your roster is loaded up on depth which gives you a shot throughout the long season.

Giddey is a nice player and he's only 21. Allegations aside (I do think he's guilty, but I can't force the family of the girl to speak), he's a talented prospect. The Bulls, however, just need more than just one Josh Giddey.

I agree with all of that, except the allegations stuff.

People need to drop this. The police did.

If they did sleep together, it appears it was consensual, and they only had an age difference of a few years.

Is it really a shocker to anyone that a 16 or 17 year-old girl hooked up with a guy a few years older than her? Literally happens all the time.

[Stratmaster]

In terms of player value, Giddey, IMO, is as good as we could hope for for Caruso (assuming Caruso wasn't attached with another asset). My only issue and it's a big concern, is that they couldn't get at least one pick out of the OKC Thunder, which they need. I get having a budget and a mandate to make the playoffs each year.

To do that, without getting top players, you need to load up on players like Giddey throughout your roster, and you need to stockpile picks to keep churning out players. So that way your roster is loaded up on depth which gives you a shot throughout the long season.

Giddey is a nice player and he's only 21. Allegations aside (I do think he's guilty, but I can't force the family of the girl to speak), he's a talented prospect. The Bulls, however, just need more than just one Josh Giddey.

No he’s not guilty and people that call him a pedo are ridiculous when it’s only a 3 year difference between them.

Other NBA players have done real crimes yet fans let it slide they don’t boo them. Even our own Derrick Rose was involved with some bad stuff yet Chicago still loves him.

He’s not “guilty” because he was never charged with anything. It appears he probably did break the law in CA, but it’s also worth nothing that 19 + 17 would not be illegal in most states, including IL. Some states have fairly unreasonable statutory rape laws (i.e a bright line rule at a certain age, with no exception for people who are within 2-3 years of your age), that can result in some pretty absurd consequences.

So, whether or not Giddey broke the law, I think most people wouldn’t be all that stressed out about 19 + 17, particularly when he met her in a place where you had to be 18 to enter and could reasonably have believed she was at least that old.

It’s a funny thing about federalism - these rules are different in every state and, particularly for people who are traveling all the time, it’s not like anyone actually knows the specific rules wherever they go. Once you hit a certain age, it doesn’t matter, since you shouldn’t be messing around with the teenager cohort at all, but when you yourself are a teenager like Giddey was, it’s obviously dicier.

Let's add that it was a one-night stand, and he met the girl at a nightclub where you had to be 18 to get in. She represented herself as 18. What started the investigation was a snapchat post that she allegedly posted saying "I just f**cked Josh Giddey". I can't find any reporting other than social media influencers that says anything other than the police investigated and won't be filing charges. There isn't even a reporting source that claims they can confirm her age, with different reports saying she was 15, 16, and 17. The only thing that appears to be confirmed is "she was still in high school".

In summary, we have a 19 year old guy who met a girl who claimed to be 18 at a nightclub and slept with her. She broke the law (or at least the rules; I would have to know what type of venue and what the law is about under 18 being in an establishment serving alcohol) by being there in the first place. The venue doesn't appear to be charged with allowing a minor in. No one seems to question the parents about what their 15, 16 or 17 year old daughter was doing at the club in the first place. No one has really even claimed that he knew she was under 18 (which is a requirement for a statutory rape charge and conviction). She then allegedly bragged on social media about the encounter.

[jnrjr79]

The only downside to this trade so far is the phony pearl clutchers calling Giddey a pedo because instagram told them to.

The basketball related criticisms about draft picks and value are not idiotic like that, but just as confusing. Under the circumstances (which AK created for himself) this was much better value than I expected to get for Caruso.

Too much generic belly aching both in here and nationally based on analyzing the trade in a vacuum rather than taking into consideration all the factors other than “Caruso for Giddey memes?!?”

I see someone who hates this trade for Chicago and I see someone who has no clue what’s been going on with this franchise the last few years, just how badly AK has managed his assets (including AC), and has no appreciation for just how **** we were.

And I say “were” because I’ve concluded despite a mountain of evidence that AK is a Neanderthal, that this means we are at least somewhat rebuilding and that we’ll see more moves consistent with that on draft day and during free agency.

IMO, we’ve reached the point, and not without merit, that people are going to hate every move just because AK made it.

I was listening to the Lowe Post this morning, and he and Bobby Marks were talking about how disillusioned the fanbase is, describing it as “toxic.” I certainly feel, or at least felt, that way, but to your point, I am cautiously optimistic that the Giddey trade is a sign of AK finally getting it. Did he move on when he should have? Nope. But better late than never.

I’m the “happiest” I’ve been with the Bulls in years.

[ScrantonBulls]

This trade also just absolutely solidified the living **** out of the fact that Vuc needs to either be gone this summer or in a significantly reduced role.

This was already the case but is heavily amplified now due to the defensive downgrade that the trade results in. And I see Giddey finding open shooters, cutters and lob guys much more than I see him finding Vuc for a 40% post up attempt.

Giddey and Vuc could coexist and maybe be effective for 15 mpg off the bench if they are flanked by 3 outright good defenders only.

I actually see the opposite. I feel like this solidifies Vuc here. I can see them trying to make him a hub again flanked by Giddey/Coby/Ayo/PWill

Giddey has to the ball to be maximized. Vuc might stick arouhd, but he won’t be a he focal point of the offense. He is nearly washed up and everyone can see it. Getting rid of him for a young rim protector has to a priority. Does any player potentially available at #11 fit that profile?

How do they get rid of Vuc? Who would take him? His contact feels like dead weight.

[ScrantonBulls]

Similar to others, my main problem is that he was worth way more last season. Additionally, Giddey is going to get paid next contact. I'm not a huge fan of overpaying slightly above average guys, which I think will happen with Giddey.

[MrSparkle]

I like that AK added the 3rd "passer" to the Bulls since 1998... (Rondo, Lonzo, now Giddey)... That's been a long missed aspect of the Bulls. We once had a beautiful passing team: Pippen, Kukoc and Jordan had excellent vision (besides their scoring ability and defense). Honorable mentions for Noah and Brad Miller, although IMO they were good at the fundamental passes, but not some kind of exquisite playmakers. Lonzo was a breathe of fresh air. But it's crazy how Bulls management has mostly avoided pursuing any 3-eyed passers in the last 25 years. Rondo was a past-prime desperation pickup (on the wrong build/team), and Lonzo was just way too short-lived. So here's to hoping Josh can grow his triple-double resume.

My disappointment in the trade was the differential in value. No doubt, a much worse scenario would've been holding Caruso to the deadline and trying to fish for a pick for a 2 month rental (or the risk of him getting injured again), or resigning him when we have no business resigning him. I just feel like AK took the OKC offer ASAP without negotiating. I suppose he's in no position to negotiate, cause he put himself in this dead-end by holding past the last 2 deadlines and summers with his higher-value assets.

At this point, I do think it's imperative that Demar moves on. I really don't want this trade to be another "assist for Vucevic." Although if we're a complete tank job, which I hope we will be, but I know we won't be with Billy and Arturas, then Vuc/Giddey are your commanders. The team will be carved up on D. But if you have Demar, it's just going to be another awkward year of having 1 good 3P shooter on the floor (with 3-4 bad defenders) in a league where good teams have 4-5 good defenders and 4-5 good 3P shooters. But the Bulls will find a way to beat bottom-10 teams and deliver a pick to SAS.

So here's to hoping we don't get Barnes, Bogdanovic/Capela or Ingram for Zach (or Demar). If they could work out a more rational extension for Ingram (not $50M: jesus), and Demar is out, then I'm more OK with a Giddey/Ingram/Coby concept then nothing. But I'd ideally keep the Flag/2025 top-8 pursuit in mind. If you give Giddey, Coby and Pat the keys, you're not winning more than 30 games. If you really give Giddey and Pat the keys (and Dalen Terry, and this #11/or whoever), we could have a productive developmental year, and receive a well-deserved tank pick.

But we'll see. I have a hard time imagining them letting Demar walk for nothing.

Other thing I do like about the trade, is we got taller. Honestly, I've been sick of Bulls small ball since 2006. It just doesn't reap the results you want in basketball, even if the defensive stats pop out or the hustle looks good. I don't mean plodding PFs and Cs, but you just need your wings to be 6'6-6'9, and your bigs to be either heavy and athletic or 7ft+ to raise the floor and ceiling of the team. Putting a 6'4 guard on PFs out of desperation is just preposterous, and I loved that Caruso could do that, but to use that scheme (even if spot-minutes) over the course of 3 years? Absolutely nonsensical. The play-in bounces reflect that. Any team with 2+ star-caliber scorers and all-defensive players shouldn't be losing play-ins.

[WindyCityBorn]

I actually see the opposite. I feel like this solidifies Vuc here. I can see them trying to make him a hub again flanked by Giddey/Coby/Ayo/PWill

Giddey has to the ball to be maximized. Vuc might stick arouhd, but he won’t be a he focal point of the offense. He is nearly washed up and everyone can see it. Getting rid of him for a young rim protector has to a priority. Does any player potentially available at #11 fit that profile?

How do they get rid of Vuc? Who would take him? His contact feels like dead weight.

Probably have ride it out, but his touches shipped go down. Give his shots to the young guys. He can start, reduce his minutes for that young rim runner we need. Kinda like we did with Taj and Boozer.

[vtime]

I actually see the opposite. I feel like this solidifies Vuc here. I can see them trying to make him a hub again flanked by Giddey/Coby/Ayo/PWill

Giddey has to the ball to be maximized. Vuc might stick arouhd, but he won’t be a he focal point of the offense. He is nearly washed up and everyone can see it. Getting rid of him for a young rim protector has to a priority. Does any player potentially available at #11 fit that profile?

How do they get rid of Vuc? Who would take him? His contact feels like dead weight.

20 mil a year is reasonable nowadays and easily movable. And only 2 years left on the deal. It’s good value. Nurkic, Poetlt, Robinson, Turner, other centers all in that same range

[Dan Z]

The only downside to this trade so far is the phony pearl clutchers calling Giddey a pedo because instagram told them to.

The basketball related criticisms about draft picks and value are not idiotic like that, but just as confusing. Under the circumstances (which AK created for himself) this was much better value than I expected to get for Caruso.

Too much generic belly aching both in here and nationally based on analyzing the trade in a vacuum rather than taking into consideration all the factors other than “Caruso for Giddey memes?!?”

I see someone who hates this trade for Chicago and I see someone who has no clue what’s been going on with this franchise the last few years, just how badly AK has managed his assets (including AC), and has no appreciation for just how **** we were.

And I say “were” because I’ve concluded despite a mountain of evidence that AK is a Neanderthal, that this means we are at least somewhat rebuilding and that we’ll see more moves consistent with that on draft day and during free agency.

I’m the “happiest” I’ve been with the Bulls in years.

Right now it looks like the Bulls are rebuilding, but it wouldn't surprise me if AK re-signs DDR and trades Zach for "win now" players.

[DropStep]

You linked a triple double he got from 2 years ago. What has he done lately?

Getting moved off ball and and having reputation destroyed probably contributed a lot to his downturn in performance. I think a fresh start will be great for him. Hopefully Chicago fans don’t bring this pedo crap up and he can move on.

I'm not even really seeing much of a downturn in his play in his stats. His counting stats really only went down because his minutes and usage did (including being moved off the ball, which you mentioned), which he didn't have control over.

His 3p%, 2p%, eFG% and FT% all went up last year. His O-rating and D-rating were both slightly better, too. HIs VORP went from 1.9 to 1.8 in 15% fewer minutes. His PER went down only slightly. Not too bad in light of your point about tough conditions.

[Mk0]

The only downside to this trade so far is the phony pearl clutchers calling Giddey a pedo because instagram told them to.

The basketball related criticisms about draft picks and value are not idiotic like that, but just as confusing. Under the circumstances (which AK created for himself) this was much better value than I expected to get for Caruso.

Too much generic belly aching both in here and nationally based on analyzing the trade in a vacuum rather than taking into consideration all the factors other than “Caruso for Giddey memes?!?”

I see someone who hates this trade for Chicago and I see someone who has no clue what’s been going on with this franchise the last few years, just how badly AK has managed his assets (including AC), and has no appreciation for just how **** we were.

And I say “were” because I’ve concluded despite a mountain of evidence that AK is a Neanderthal, that this means we are at least somewhat rebuilding and that we’ll see more moves consistent with that on draft day and during free agency.

I’m the “happiest” I’ve been with the Bulls in years.

Right now it looks like the Bulls are rebuilding, but it wouldn't surprise me if AK re-signs DDR and trades Zach for "win now" players.

AKME not getting any sweetener scares me a little, because a rebuilding team would absolutely snag at least a 2nd or something

This is my only real issue. Would it have been nice to get something added to the trade? Absolutely. The coffers are empty and a 1-to-1 trade stings when the other team has over 30 draft picks they won't even be able to use.

And if they are looking at this as a "re-tool" they have to know we need more assets for any other moves. No one wants Zach, Vooch isn't an expiring until next year, Drummond is gonna leave, Craig is gonna leave and unless we are doing a sign and trade we won't get anything for DeMar.

Fingers crossed DeMar forces them into a rebuild by moving on. It is overdue. I am grateful for what he has done here and how he has mentored Coby/Ayo, but he needs to secure one last big contract and/or contend.

[dice]

In terms of player value, Giddey, IMO, is as good as we could hope for for Caruso (assuming Caruso wasn't attached with another asset). My only issue and it's a big concern, is that they couldn't get at least one pick out of the OKC Thunder, which they need. I get having a budget and a mandate to make the playoffs each year.

To do that, without getting top players, you need to load up on players like Giddey throughout your roster, and you need to stockpile picks to keep churning out players. So that way your roster is loaded up on depth which gives you a shot throughout the long season.

Giddey is a nice player and he's only 21. Allegations aside (I do think he's guilty, but I can't force the family of the girl to speak), he's a talented prospect. The Bulls, however, just need more than just one Josh Giddey.

No he’s not guilty and people that call him a pedo are ridiculous when it’s only a 3 year difference between them.

Other NBA players have done real crimes yet fans let it slide they don’t boo them. Even our own Derrick Rose was involved with some bad stuff yet Chicago still loves him.

He’s not “guilty” because he was never charged with anything. It appears he probably did break the law in CA, but it’s also worth nothing that 19 + 17 would not be illegal in most states, including IL. Some states have fairly unreasonable statutory rape laws (i.e a bright line rule at a certain age, with no exception for people who are within 2-3 years of your age), that can result in some pretty absurd consequences.

So, whether or not Giddey broke the law, I think most people wouldn’t be all that stressed out about 19 + 17, particularly when he met her in a place where you had to be 18 to enter and could reasonably have believed she was at least that old.

It’s a funny thing about federalism - these rules are different in every state and, particularly for people who are traveling all the time, it’s not like anyone actually knows the specific rules wherever they go. Once you hit a certain age, it doesn’t matter, since you shouldn’t be messing around with the teenager cohort at all, but when you yourself are a teenager like Giddey was, it’s obviously dicier.

the age of consent where he came of age was 16

still, this is one of those areas where the nba should damn well be educating its players. ask for ID, use a condom

she was reportedly a HS sophomore, BTW. and this is her boldly racking up the followers:

https://www.instagram.com/lliv.cook/

[t-time]

Caruso was by far my favorite player on the roster and I have no problem with this deal. He is going to be excellent for OKC. They need him more than we do.

We wouldn’t have got Giddey for Caruso this time last season. Hopefully we turn over some of the other vets now and have some sort of direction for this team.

[bullskokie]

G White
G Lavine
F Giddey
F Williams
C Drummond, Edey

Is this fun or what?!

[Dan Z]

The only downside to this trade so far is the phony pearl clutchers calling Giddey a pedo because instagram told them to.

The basketball related criticisms about draft picks and value are not idiotic like that, but just as confusing. Under the circumstances (which AK created for himself) this was much better value than I expected to get for Caruso.

Too much generic belly aching both in here and nationally based on analyzing the trade in a vacuum rather than taking into consideration all the factors other than “Caruso for Giddey memes?!?”

I see someone who hates this trade for Chicago and I see someone who has no clue what’s been going on with this franchise the last few years, just how badly AK has managed his assets (including AC), and has no appreciation for just how **** we were.

And I say “were” because I’ve concluded despite a mountain of evidence that AK is a Neanderthal, that this means we are at least somewhat rebuilding and that we’ll see more moves consistent with that on draft day and during free agency.

I’m the “happiest” I’ve been with the Bulls in years.

Right now it looks like the Bulls are rebuilding, but it wouldn't surprise me if AK re-signs DDR and trades Zach for "win now" players.

AKME not getting any sweetener scares me a little, because a rebuilding team would absolutely snag at least a 2nd or something

This is my only real issue. Would it have been nice to get something added to the trade? Absolutely. The coffers are empty and a 1-to-1 trade stings when the other team has over 30 draft picks they won't even be able to use.

And if they are looking at this as a "re-tool" they have to know we need more assets for any other moves. No one wants Zach, Vooch isn't an expiring until next year, Drummond is gonna leave, Craig is gonna leave and unless we are doing a sign and trade we won't get anything for DeMar.

Fingers crossed DeMar forces them into a rebuild by moving on. It is overdue. I am grateful for what he has done here and how he has mentored Coby/Ayo, but he needs to secure one last big contract and/or contend.

It wouldn't surprise me if AK did something like Zach plus #11 for Ingram. Then the Bulls continue to be a play-in team, only younger.

I dont trust that the front office will rebuild (which doesnt mean trade everyone), but I hope im wrong about that.

[dice]

Right now it looks like the Bulls are rebuilding, but it wouldn't surprise me if AK re-signs DDR and trades Zach for "win now" players.

AKME not getting any sweetener scares me a little, because a rebuilding team would absolutely snag at least a 2nd or something

This is my only real issue. Would it have been nice to get something added to the trade? Absolutely. The coffers are empty and a 1-to-1 trade stings when the other team has over 30 draft picks they won't even be able to use.

And if they are looking at this as a "re-tool" they have to know we need more assets for any other moves. No one wants Zach, Vooch isn't an expiring until next year, Drummond is gonna leave, Craig is gonna leave and unless we are doing a sign and trade we won't get anything for DeMar.

Fingers crossed DeMar forces them into a rebuild by moving on. It is overdue. I am grateful for what he has done here and how he has mentored Coby/Ayo, but he needs to secure one last big contract and/or contend.

It wouldn't surprise me if AK did something like Zach plus #11 for Ingram

max ingram, overpay giddey, 'round and 'round we go...