Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[tontoz]

Robinson's contract isn't bad, and it's descending. I find it hard to believe the Knicks are looking to get rid of him, especially since they might lose Hartenstein.

Knicks have indicated that they are all-in on resigning Hartenstein. So I can see them looking to move Robinson.

If that is the case I seriously doubt they will trade Robinson until after they have resigned Hartenstein. He is a ufa and they could easily lose him.

They can't resign Hartenstein until after the draft

[Jkam31]

If Sac is willing to give up the 13th pick for Kuz…take it. Draft Carrington or McCain. One should be available.

But I have my doubts that the Sac FO would make that offer.

I’d be highly pissed if they don’t and from most out insdiers they say tFO wants to move the pick. They’ve been chasing Kuzma as is and his contract is perfect compared to a Grant the time to go all in is now. The only way I see us not going for Kuzma is if we could get PG or Jimmy Butler otherwise getting Kuzma for 13 and a player they don’t really like in Huerter is highway robbery especially with monk resigning

[penbeast0]

Combining the Kuz trade and interest in Robinson rumors:

Wiz receive Robinson, picks 24 and 25 from this draft, the future first from the Wall trade is returned

Knicks receive Kuz

Some version of this makes sense, Knicks get to dump Robinson, we absorb into one the trade exceptions and get one or more of their late FRP's, this could possibly necessitate the help of another team.

We'd have 24, 25, and 26? Wow, don't have to make any choices at all, just grab everyone we were thinking about. It does get us the two 1sts we've been asking for for Kuzma, a legit defensive center when healthy which was our biggest hole once Jordan Poole started playing point, plus the very conditional 1st back. Then if we pick Sarr, we do have a logjam but I don't see Holmes, and probably not Bagley, as anything more than contracts we took back to match and hole fillers. My strange fear (and I got made fun of for this last year too) is that a healthy Mitch Robinson might make us too good to get the top choice/#1 player in next year's draft.

[Dat2U]

I’m assuming we’ve taken Sarr with the #2 pick so the Zards are unlikely to draft Edey in that situation.

Why not BPA? What if Sarr becomes a PF?

I typically don’t disagree with the BPA argument. But in this case you’d be looking at developing Vuckevic, Sarr and Edey… with Deni and Bilal also looking like future PFs. Not to mention that Holmes or Bagley will likely be kept around for their vet presence. That’s a real logjam in the frontcourt…all of them pretty much nonshooters.

Seems to me that the best use of that 13th pick would be to add a perimeter shooter like McCain or Carrington.

Deni has been playing SF. Bilal played alot of SG last year. We aren't at the stage of rebuilding to be worried about fit just yet IMO.

C Edey ... Vucevic
F Sarr ... (Avdija)
F Avdija ... (Coulibaly)
G Coulibaly ... Kispert

There are plenty of minutes to go around in such a scenario.

[NatP4]

I love that this FO has us linked to many deals. Doesn't seem like we are going to get pigeonholed...

Utah seems locked in on Edey at #10. Spurs are a wildcard at #8, reported interest in all of Castle/Topic/Carter/Dillingham/Saluan, outside of that:

Chicago: no interest in Topic after acquiring Giddey-Kuzma destination
OKC: no interest in Topic-Kuzma destination
SAC: no interest in Topic-Kuzma destination
Portland: no interest in Topic

Still think that is the best player in the draft, and going to be very available in the later lottery range, and there are essentially only two other lottery teams in need of a lead guard: SAS and Utah(kind of).

Haven't really made a personal big board this year, but it would have Topic and Sarr in the top 5. Would be a 99 percentile outcome IMO. On the same token, I would also be thrilled with Sheppard at 2 and a Kuzma trade that nets Pacome Dadiet. Sarr is a fit-pick in combination with Topic(who I believe is the best player in the draft).

[gesa2]

My personal amateur board is Sarr, Sheppard, Topic, Risacher Castle. I agree that landing Topic late lottery for Kuzma would be a great outcome regardless of who we pick at 2. I’d take him at 13 even if I got Sheppard at 2. If we’re lucky enough that both hit and are legit starters we can trade one later.

[NatP4]

My personal amateur board is Sarr, Sheppard, Topic, Risacher Castle. I agree that landing Topic late lottery for Kuzma would be a great outcome regardless of who we pick at 2. I’d take him at 13 even if I got Sheppard at 2. If we’re lucky enough that both hit and are legit starters we can trade one later.

From the David Aldridge article, Western Conference executive no. 1 regarding Topic:

“ The medical we’ve gotten is, they don’t seem that concerned. They think it’s good stuff. It seems like it’s just a kindling with this. This doesn’t seem like it’s going to be a chronic thing. It isn’t like he went to UNC, and you know their medical staff. He’s playing in Europe, and he’s out of sight, out of mind. He’s represented by one of the most powerful agents in Europe (Miško Ražnatović), and Miško has been able to manipulate what he needs. …

If he starts dropping, it’s not because of his size, his age, and his skill; it’s going to be because of something else, and that’s going to be the knee. But it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be a wildfire, where this is legitimately a concern”

Eastern Conference scout: “I don’t know that he’s injury-prone; he just has this injury.”

[NatP4]

Sheppard and Topic is an interesting thought. That’s 1/2 on my board, but hard to picture from a defensive/fit perspective.

[DCZards]

Why not BPA? What if Sarr becomes a PF?

I typically don’t disagree with the BPA argument. But in this case you’d be looking at developing Vuckevic, Sarr and Edey… with Deni and Bilal also looking like future PFs. Not to mention that Holmes or Bagley will likely be kept around for their vet presence. That’s a real logjam in the frontcourt…all of them pretty much nonshooters.

Seems to me that the best use of that 13th pick would be to add a perimeter shooter like McCain or Carrington.

Deni has been playing SF. Bilal played alot of SG last year. We aren't at the stage of rebuilding to be worried about fit just yet IMO.

C Edey ... Vucevic
F Sarr ... (Avdija)
F Avdija ... (Coulibaly)
G Coulibaly ... Kispert

There are plenty of minutes to go around in such a scenario.

Not necessarily worried about fit but I'd hate to pass on a quality PG/SG like McCain for another big like Edey. Not seeing many lineups with Sarr and Edey on the court at the same time...unless one becomes an above average 3 pt shooter for a big like a KAT or Myles Turner.

I'm not seeing Bilal as a future 6-10 G. I envision Bilal as the starting SF with Deni at PF.

[gesa2]

Sheppard and Topic is an interesting thought. That’s 1/2 on my board, but hard to picture from a defensive/fit perspective.

I’m not thinking of it as complementary pieces as much as 2 shots at a really good player. Especially because they wouldn’t go through their rookie years at the same time.

[doclinkin]

Combining the Kuz trade and interest in Robinson rumors:

Wiz receive Robinson, picks 24 and 25 from this draft, the future first from the Wall trade is returned

Knicks receive Kuz

100% Kuz wants to play in New York.

If the Wiz can get the pick back and pick up future capital I fully expect they'd accommodate him. Thibbs doesn't seem to like rookies much, I can see them willing to trade future picks figuring they will win enough for them to matter less.

If part of a package with other moving pieces this seems a Dawkins/Winger move to me. Move Kuz as a favor, for a younger but productive player. A player undervalued for reasons beyond his control (Thibbs likes Hartenstein, the team wants to re-sign him, he wants to be paid and valued as their playoff starter should be).

The only question is what to do with the logjam at 5. Holmes is a very Thibbs type player. Grit and hustle and veteran savvy. So Kuz + Holmes for Robinson and future picks (and our pick back). I don't think they'd want to pick 24, 25, & 26 this year, but going forward:

The Knicks have 4 potential draft picks in 2025. Ours. Detroit (lotto protected). Their own. Bucks (top 4 protected). Plus Brooklyn's 2nd rounder. Zero chance they use them all.

Kuz + Holmes for Robinson + the worse of NY or the Bucks 2025 pick, and our own protected pick back.

[nate33]

Combining the Kuz trade and interest in Robinson rumors:

Wiz receive Robinson, picks 24 and 25 from this draft, the future first from the Wall trade is returned

Knicks receive Kuz

100% Kuz wants to play in New York.

If the Wiz can get the pick back and pick up future capital I fully expect they'd accommodate him. Thibbs doesn't seem to like rookies much, I can see them willing to trade future picks figuring they will win enough for them to matter less.

If part of a package with other moving pieces this seems a Dawkins/Winger move to me. Move Kuz as a favor, for a younger but productive player. A player undervalued for reasons beyond his control (Thibbs likes Hartenstein, the team wants to re-sign him, he wants to be paid and valued as their playoff starter should be).

The only question is what to do with the logjam at 5. Holmes is a very Thibbs type player. Grit and hustle and veteran savvy. So Kuz + Holmes for Robinson and future picks (and our pick back). I don't think they'd want to pick 24, 25, & 26 this year, but going forward:

The Knicks have 4 potential draft picks in 2025. Ours. Detroit (lotto protected). Their own. Bucks (top 4 protected). Plus Brooklyn's 2nd rounder. Zero chance they use them all.

Kuz + Holmes for Robinson + the worse of NY or the Bucks 2025 pick, and our own protected pick back.

That's a pretty big salary mismatch. New York would have to send us Bogdanovic. Maybe we could flip him to Orlando for cap room.

I like that we get those 2025 picks, but I really don't like the acquisition of Robinson. Robinson is very good, but, like most hyper-athletic big men in their late 20's, he has reached the point in his career where he can't stay healthy. We are building for a future 2-3 years down the road. If Robinson can't stay healthy now, I know he won't stay healthy in the future. So all he does is ruin the tank while providing no benefit for the future that we care about. He is a win-now player. Not a fit here.

[payitforward]

Need a third team that would absorb Robinson & send us draft capital plus salary.

[Stix]

What would it take to reverse the Beal trade?

[nate33]

What would it take to reverse the Beal trade?

You don't have the assets.

[tontoz]

What would it take to reverse the Beal trade?

You don't have the assets.

Not to mention Beal's no trade clause. No way would he approve a trade back here.

[Stix]

What would it take to reverse the Beal trade?

You don't have the assets.

Not to mention Beal's no trade clause. No way would he approve a trade back here.

Our management sucks and ruined our team with the trade. Well done boys!

[doclinkin]

Combining the Kuz trade and interest in Robinson rumors:

Wiz receive Robinson, picks 24 and 25 from this draft, the future first from the Wall trade is returned

Knicks receive Kuz

100% Kuz wants to play in New York.

If the Wiz can get the pick back and pick up future capital I fully expect they'd accommodate him. Thibbs doesn't seem to like rookies much, I can see them willing to trade future picks figuring they will win enough for them to matter less.

If part of a package with other moving pieces this seems a Dawkins/Winger move to me. Move Kuz as a favor, for a younger but productive player. A player undervalued for reasons beyond his control (Thibbs likes Hartenstein, the team wants to re-sign him, he wants to be paid and valued as their playoff starter should be).

The only question is what to do with the logjam at 5. Holmes is a very Thibbs type player. Grit and hustle and veteran savvy. So Kuz + Holmes for Robinson and future picks (and our pick back). I don't think they'd want to pick 24, 25, & 26 this year, but going forward:

The Knicks have 4 potential draft picks in 2025. Ours. Detroit (lotto protected). Their own. Bucks (top 4 protected). Plus Brooklyn's 2nd rounder. Zero chance they use them all.

Kuz + Holmes for Robinson + the worse of NY or the Bucks 2025 pick, and our own protected pick back.

That's a pretty big salary mismatch. New York would have to send us Bogdanovic. Maybe we could flip him to Orlando for cap room.

I like that we get those 2025 picks, but I really don't like the acquisition of Robinson. Robinson is very good, but, like most hyper-athletic big men in their late 20's, he has reached the point in his career where he can't stay healthy. We are building for a future 2-3 years down the road. If Robinson can't stay healthy now, I know he won't stay healthy in the future. So all he does is ruin the tank while providing no benefit for the future that we care about. He is a win-now player. Not a fit here.

I don't know that he ruins the tank. I figure they can still find a way to lose with a Big who shoots only 40% from the FT line. Especially if he is splitting the position with Bagley. And sometimes Vukcevic. And we forcefeed all of Kuzma's minutes to a developing Bilal. For all that Kuz is maligned, he does have a few 40-piece games and a couple triple doubles on his resume. Bilal ain't making up that gap in his 2nd year.

I guess I'm just greedy for extra selections in the 2025 draft. Adding a New York/Bucks pick (and maybe the Brooklyn 2nd rounder) is worth eating salary to me, even if we were never in danger of losing our own pick.

[nate33]

100% Kuz wants to play in New York.

If the Wiz can get the pick back and pick up future capital I fully expect they'd accommodate him. Thibbs doesn't seem to like rookies much, I can see them willing to trade future picks figuring they will win enough for them to matter less.

If part of a package with other moving pieces this seems a Dawkins/Winger move to me. Move Kuz as a favor, for a younger but productive player. A player undervalued for reasons beyond his control (Thibbs likes Hartenstein, the team wants to re-sign him, he wants to be paid and valued as their playoff starter should be).

The only question is what to do with the logjam at 5. Holmes is a very Thibbs type player. Grit and hustle and veteran savvy. So Kuz + Holmes for Robinson and future picks (and our pick back). I don't think they'd want to pick 24, 25, & 26 this year, but going forward:

The Knicks have 4 potential draft picks in 2025. Ours. Detroit (lotto protected). Their own. Bucks (top 4 protected). Plus Brooklyn's 2nd rounder. Zero chance they use them all.

Kuz + Holmes for Robinson + the worse of NY or the Bucks 2025 pick, and our own protected pick back.

That's a pretty big salary mismatch. New York would have to send us Bogdanovic. Maybe we could flip him to Orlando for cap room.

I like that we get those 2025 picks, but I really don't like the acquisition of Robinson. Robinson is very good, but, like most hyper-athletic big men in their late 20's, he has reached the point in his career where he can't stay healthy. We are building for a future 2-3 years down the road. If Robinson can't stay healthy now, I know he won't stay healthy in the future. So all he does is ruin the tank while providing no benefit for the future that we care about. He is a win-now player. Not a fit here.

I don't know that he ruins the tank. I figure they can still find a way to lose with a Big who shoots only 40% from the FT line. Especially if he is splitting the position with Bagley. And sometimes Vukcevic. And we forcefeed all of Kuzma's minutes to a developing Bilal. For all that Kuz is maligned, he does have a few 40-piece games and a couple triple doubles on his resume. Bilal ain't making up that gap in his 2nd year.

I guess I'm just greedy for extra selections in the 2025 draft. Adding a New York/Bucks pick (and maybe the Brooklyn 2nd rounder) is worth eating salary to me, even if we were never in danger of losing our own pick.

It's an issue of maximizing his value. The Knicks aren't really going to consider him a salary dump because he is still a good player. They certainly wouldn't give up this much just to unload him because they will assign outgoing value to him, value that we don't really see because we don't value him as an on-the-court player.

Another team has to be brought into this - a team that values Mitchell's win-now capabilities and will pay for him.

[Frichuela]

That's a pretty big salary mismatch. New York would have to send us Bogdanovic. Maybe we could flip him to Orlando for cap room.

I like that we get those 2025 picks, but I really don't like the acquisition of Robinson. Robinson is very good, but, like most hyper-athletic big men in their late 20's, he has reached the point in his career where he can't stay healthy. We are building for a future 2-3 years down the road. If Robinson can't stay healthy now, I know he won't stay healthy in the future. So all he does is ruin the tank while providing no benefit for the future that we care about. He is a win-now player. Not a fit here.

I don't know that he ruins the tank. I figure they can still find a way to lose with a Big who shoots only 40% from the FT line. Especially if he is splitting the position with Bagley. And sometimes Vukcevic. And we forcefeed all of Kuzma's minutes to a developing Bilal. For all that Kuz is maligned, he does have a few 40-piece games and a couple triple doubles on his resume. Bilal ain't making up that gap in his 2nd year.

I guess I'm just greedy for extra selections in the 2025 draft. Adding a New York/Bucks pick (and maybe the Brooklyn 2nd rounder) is worth eating salary to me, even if we were never in danger of losing our own pick.

It's an issue of maximizing his value. The Knicks aren't really going to consider him a salary dump because he is still a good player. They certainly wouldn't give up this much just to unload him because they will assign outgoing value to him, value that we don't really see because we don't value him as an on-the-court player.

Another team has to be brought into this - a team that values Mitchell's win-now capabilities and will pay for him.

Memphis or New Orleans?