Official Santana Trade thread

[dunkonu21]

This situation is huge for the Twins' future...This Off-season is the equivalent to that of what the Timberwolves had to do this year...

There are a couple teams thought to be majorly interested and their main pieces:

NYY: Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy, Jose Tabata and Austin Jackson, Robinson Cano

NYM: David Wright, Jose Reyes, Carlos Gomez, Lasting Midlridge, Mike Pelfrey

BOS: Jacob Ellsbury, Clay Bucholtz, Coco Crisp (yuck), Jon Lester

LAD: Matt Kemp, Andy LaRoche, Clayton Kershaw

LAA: Brandon Wood, Howie Kendrick


And there are prolly more teams trying to get him, but might not have a shot...Specifically teams like Seattle...


Who has the best Package?

Is Joe Nathan out the door too? Should we trade Nathan before Tans?



LETS START A DISCUSSION, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS THREAD MAKE A POST!!!....

[maseda17]

Or maybe you as a Red Sox fan have a twisted sense on what a good deal is...

This was the response in April when I suggested Beckett, Buchholz, Ellsbury for Santana. HAHAHAHAHA. The risk in that deal was simply whether Beckett would settle in to AL hitting and boy how he did. Now that offer is a pipe dream for the Twins and they will receive a much weaker package from either Boston or any other team. I have a twisted sense of a good deal though so carry on.

[mets87]

wright and reyes won't be traded, mets have almost no chance at santana.

[Klomp]

I personally think it comes down to the Yankees and Red Sox, just like it always does. The two LA teams have no chance and shouldn't even be in the discussion. I like the Mets package, but HIGHLY doubt they trade Reyes or Wright.

[schaffy]

The deal I like best is Johan to Boston for:
Elsbury
Lester
Jed Lowry, a young SS prospect

Here is a crazy idea:
Nathan and Santana for Elsbury, Lester, Buchholz, Jed Lowry, and one of either Will Middlebrooks/Michael Almanzar/Nick Hagadone

http://www.soxprospects.com/players/mid ... s-will.htm

http://www.soxprospects.com/players/alm ... ichael.htm

http://www.soxprospects.com/players/hagadone-nick.htm

I think if the Twins trade Santana, they should send out Nathan as well, just to start it all over with youth at positions they need it. The Sox seem reluctant to trade Elsbury, but throwing in Nathan to be there 8th inning buy (like they hoped Gagne would be) just might help persuade them.

C Mauer
1b Morneau
2b Casilla
3b Busher
ss Harris
LF Young
CF Elsbury
RF Cuddy
DH Kubel/Monroe

Baker (not the number 1 pitcher, just the first one i named)
Lester
Boof
Liriano ( hoping and praying)
Buchholz
with Slowey still in AAA or the pen and Perkins in the pen.


I think with this trade helps the Twins fill in parts of their roster with some good youth. Their lineup is already pretty young and Elsbury looks like he will be a very good leadoff hitter and a CF with good range (probably not Hunter, but still good). Lester and Buckholz are developing nicely in terms of pitching, although Lester can be a bit inconsistent, that can be blamed on his absence due to his cancer. Lowry has the potential to be an average to above average MLB SS. One of the other three guys would be a young guy who needs some work. Middelbrooks and Almanzar sound like they will probably become 3B, the one apparent weakness of the Twins (I have not been impressed with Moses Plouffe or Buscher). Hagadone sounds like he could be a good starter or reliever with some fast stuff and an improving change. Also was a closer in college, so maybe the long-term replacement to Nathan.

[GopherIt!]

I've been aghast at the deals reported by Buster Olney ("Mr. I love the Redsox") and others at ESPN with unbridled love for either the New York or Boston teams that basically rip off the Twins for Johan. Plus, Charley Walters is apparently the Twins reporter they most like to quote! Isn't that like trusting the National Enquirer for quality news? Deals centered around Jon Lester and Coco Crisp? or Ian Kennedy and Melky Cabrera? Bucholtz, Ellsbury, Chamberlain, etc are untouchable?? I'd do Kennedy and Cabrera for Santana alright, ERVIN Santana...

[GopherIt!]

After being kidnapped and taken to a frigid meat locker, beaten to a bloody pulp, deprived of sleep, given no food for a week, gun pointed at my head, Michael Madsen dancing in front of me with knife in hand and being forced to listen to Fall Out Boy around the clock, I'd reluctantly and grudgingly trade the best pitch in baseball, Johan Santana, for one of the following offers:

LAD: Billingsly, Kershaw, Kemp and LaRoche

BOS: Ellsbury, Buchholz, Bard, Masterson & Lowrie (ss).

NYY: Chamberlain, Hughes, Tabata and Cano


LA appears to be less interested in making a serious run for Johan, though I think they are the NL team that OUGHT to pull the trigger. They have plenty of prospects to work out a deal. In this deal, Nomar stays and continues to play at third (vs LaRoche), Delwyn Young gets the call in LF (vs Kemp) and they keep Elbert for the future fifth starter in their rotation of Johan-Penny-Lowe-Schmidt-Elbert (vs Billingsly and Kershaw in '09) and keep their closer of the future (Broxton) while landing a lefty better than Koufax who will feast on Padres, Giants, D-Backs and Rockies in cavernous Dodger stadium while fans enjoy their Farmer John's hot dogs.

The Yankees or Redsox are more likely trade partners. My game ball for today goes to Jorge Posada for speaking out about wanting Johan and adding more pressure to the situation. Neither team will certainly let Johan go for a reasonable price to their arch nemesis. If I am Bill Smith, I am aiming for three top prospects and a solid young player with quality MLB experience or two more mid-level prospects (in the case of the Redsox.) Realistically, maybe one or two of those prospects out of either deal will amount to anything special, none will be as special as the player they are replacing.

Along with prospects, either the Redsox give up one significant, but inexperienced, player from their post season run (Ellsbury) or the Yankees give up the only non all-star in their murder's row line up (Cano) to land the instant ace of their staff and a source of great agony to the losing suitor. The Redsox can let Ellsbury go and then go sign someone like Aaron Rowland to play CF and barely break a sweat. As for the Yankees, they have plenty of offense to afford to give up Cano and combining Johan with their line up, they will own ALCS and World Series games 1, 4 and 7 for the next six years. If I am Cashman or Theo these deals are no brainers. Splitting hairs over the likes of Chamberlain or Buchholz is senseless. We are talking about a pitcher whose game compares to the likes of Gibson and Koufax. The first team that realizes this and pulls the trigger is going to make baseball a hopeless waste of time for the rest of us until about 2015.

To add insult to injury to Twins fans, my Braves friend just reminded me that Johan has pitched half his games the past seven years in one of the most hitter-friendly parks in baseball. As if we don't have enough reasons NOT to trade Johan already!

Please Mr. Pohlad have a change of heart and keep Johan a Twin.

[Wade2k6]

^^ I hope you're joking.

I know from the yankees point of view, you won't get either Chamberlain or Cano. Let alone both of them, that's just crazy. That's first off. Hughes is reportedly out of the deal now, too.

The yankees say they're sticking to their proposal and keeping the trade at Kennedy, Melky and one of Tabata or Jackson.

Face it, the Twins are in a bad position. Johan can decide where he wants to go. Between him deciding where he wants to go and teams not able to trade for him, the teams are limited. Limited to probably 2 teams, the Yankees and Red Sox. The yankees and Red sox certainly aren't stupid enough to give up every one of their top tier prospects. The twins are in a position where they have to take a lower offer for Johan, or they can keep him. If they keep him though, he's going to leave through free agency next year. So basically, they have to take a lower offer for Johan.-

[kg2005]

I think these are our best deals if we can get them:

NYY: Hughes, Cabrera, Austin Jackson
Sox: Bucholz, Crisp, Lowrie OR Lester, Ellsbury, Lowrie
LAD: Kershaw, Kemp, LaRoche

The Twins are NOT in a bad position. This is NOT the NBA. They can afford to sit and wait until they get the offer that they want for Santana, or they can just let him go in free agency and get two high round draft picks for him, which are extremely valuable and extremely underrated. Plus we'd have an extra year of Johan, which obviously has value in itself. We're not in panic mode by any means.

[SSUBluesman]

^^ I hope you're joking.

I know from the yankees point of view, you won't get either Chamberlain or Cano. Let alone both of them, that's just crazy. That's first off. Hughes is reportedly out of the deal now, too.

The yankees say they're sticking to their proposal and keeping the trade at Kennedy, Melky and one of Tabata or Jackson.

Face it, the Twins are in a bad position. Johan can decide where he wants to go. Between him deciding where he wants to go and teams not able to trade for him, the teams are limited. Limited to probably 2 teams, the Yankees and Red Sox. The yankees and Red sox certainly aren't stupid enough to give up every one of their top tier prospects. The twins are in a position where they have to take a lower offer for Johan, or they can keep him. If they keep him though, he's going to leave through free agency next year. So basically, they have to take a lower offer for Johan.-

Of course they're in a bad position, ESPN said so themselves
We'd better just take Coco Crisp and whatever other junk the Red Sox offer and be happy that they're even willing to talk to us about a deal, let alone actually make one. How dare a bunch of midwestern hillbillies think they're any match for the genius that is the East Coast.


No though, I'm sure the Twins will absolutely get killed in any deal they make. Seriously, what experience do they have in trading off established players for prospects/young players? And then there is the fact there is SOOOOOOOOOO much pitching on free agent market. Why deal for Santana when you can sign Silva? And I'm sure the Yankees are more than willing to lowball the Twins until Santana is in Boston, why would they care if the best pitcher in MLB is playing for their hated rival? I'm sure they LOVE the idea of facing Beckett/Johan down in the playoffs.

[GopherIt!]

Wade2K6, are you sure you want to argue with me? No it's not at all crazy unless your reliable news source on the Twins being interested in Coco Crisp or Melky Cabrera is Charley Walters (as RealGM.net sadly reported.) If so, then may I suggest the National Enquirer to you for the weekly news.

The Twins are in a bad position? The best pitcher in baseball has become available in a trade. Not only do both the Yankees and Redsox want him neither team wants to LOSE Johan to their arch rival. Regardless of the bounty, do you think the Redsox would want the Yankees to acquire Johan? Seeing Johan in pinstripes would be Theo's worst nightmare. Can you imagine the next Redsox press conference - Theo would walk up to the podium and say to the Boston press "well the Yankees got Johan...but at least they had to give up Kennedy, Tabata and Melky to do it." Buster Olney, Peter Gammons, Bill Simmons and half the ESPN crew would take Theo outside and stone him on the spot. We know they will be determined to not let that happen, let alone for a limp offer of prospects like that. Place the shoe on the other foot. Do you think the Yankees will let the Redsox acquire Johan cheaply? If the Yankees are sitting in the office and hear a report that a Johan to Boston deal is in place for Ellsbury, Buchholz and a couple other top prospects that Cashman will turn to Steinbrenner and say "well good for them!" The answer to any of these silly scenarios is an obvious no. That's without even taking into account the other potential players like the Mets, Angels, Dodgers, Mariners and perhaps other teams. The anxiety of an arch rival landing the best pitcher in baseball is very high, especially among the Yankees and Redsox brass. That's the thing, if anyone will be "overpaying" to land Santana it will be either the Yankees or Redsox. It should be crystal clear at this point that the Twins are the ones in the drivers seat.

Smith has already stated that they could still resign him if they don't get a deal they like. They could also wait to move him until during the season when teams start to lose pitchers and become more desperate to add an arm to bolster their staff. There is no urgency in moving him. They certainly won't give him away. Remember that this is the team that was ready to walk away from Joe Nathan and Boof Bonser for AJ Pyrzinski, until Saban agreed to include Francisco Liriano in the deal as well.

The idea that the Dodgers, Angels or Mets don't even have a chance to land Santana or that Johan won't play in those places which is certainly false. Johan would love to play with Tori Hunter again in L.A. If the Mets sign Carlos Silva, guess what? Johan would definitely consider playing again with his best friend. Also trusting a Yankees message board for a negative Boston rumor about Johan? Hell, why not go to the Magic, Wizards or Hawks boards for quality rumors about your beloved Shaq and Wade?

If there is no way of getting the likes of Cano or Chamberlain then there is no way of getting Johan. It is just ridiculous to expect to acquire Johan Santana and not give up at least two of your top prospects in the process. THAT, is just crazy. Kennedy isn't one of the guys the Twins want and a Cabrera does absolutely nothing to help the Twins unless his first name is Miguel. The Yankees top prospects that interest Minnesota are Chamberlain and Hughes. The Redsox that interest the Twins are Ellsbury and Buchholz. They have stated that. The Yankees wouldn't be giving up all their top prospects - just the top prospects Minny wants, and when your getting Johan Santana in return that is a reasonable request.

[Krapinsky]

Here is a crazy idea:
Nathan and Santana for Elsbury, Lester, Buchholz, Jed Lowry, and one of either Will Middlebrooks/Michael Almanzar/Nick Hagadone

This is actually a very interesting trade idea. From the Red Sox perspective this has to be very enticing. They could make Papelbon a starter and have nathan close. Okajima would keep the 8th.

A Santana, Beckett, Papelbon, Dice-K, Schilling rotation would be insane. They would own the Yankees for the next three years.

[dunkonu21]

I'd like a deal from the yankees that goes something like this:

Cano, Kennedy, Melky and Betemit...

[daddyfivestar]

Good pts about NY and Boston: I can see why maybe Bos holds out since they are coming off of a title and may not want to make any changes.
But both NY teams are in need of an ace. If the Mets had Johan going into that big game instead of Glavine...
Posada already said it for NyY.

And LAD- yes they need a bat, but Torre knows first hand how devastating Johan is and Dodger stadium is a top 5 pitchers park (vs the Dome, his era will be sick). They have the right mix of young arms, bats and depth to make it work. Santana/Penny/ Schmidt/Lowe is probably the deepest rote outside of Boston. That doesn't include Billngsly who could be dealt or kept in lieu of Kershaw.
Torre needs to get the McC's on the phone already.

[dunkonu21]

Yessssss...Boston has put Ellsbury on the table...Seems like the Twins prefer Ellsbury to Hughes...I would agree with that...Ellsbury would be a great lead off hitter for us...our line-up would look sweet:

Ellsbury
Mauer
Young
Cuddy
Mourneau
Kubel
Brendan Harris
Punto (we will have to make one more move to improve this bitch)
Casilla

[nykgeneralmanager]

Why do people think Ellsbury is anything more than an average major leaguer just because he helped them in the WS? If he has one season with more than 10 home runs or 60 RBI in his career, I'll be shocked. He'll probably provide a nice batting average, stolen bases, and defense. He's hardly any better than Brett Gardner, I can't believe Theo has the Twins rolling over for him.

[GopherIt!]

That's a fair point, it's not like Ellsbury is a Reyes type lead off hitter.
He may be in fact become only a 10-60 guy but I think the Twins see him
as one of those guys whose stats don't tell the whole story about his play.
He puts the ball in play frequently, seems to have the make up a clutch hitter and plays solid defense. I still think he and Buchholz ought to be essential to any Johan deal with Boston.

I really like Hughes. He certainly has more statistical upside over Ellsbury. I prefer him over either Joba or Kennedy. The problem for me with the Yankee's offer is that it needs to include two more high quality pieces - either top prospects or Cano. Hughes has a chance to be special but giving up Johan and taking that risk merits two more high quality trade pieces. Bill Beane, who knows a thing or two about trades is demanding Hughes or Joba and Tabata as the basis of a Dan Haren deal.

What if they Yankees give up Hughes, Cano, Jackson or Tabata and two lesser prospects? I still think that is a no brainer if I'm Cashman. Hughes has a chance - yes, but losing him and adding Johan STILL improves their pitching way more than the loss of Cano and a top prospect hurts the murder's row line up. I am convinced that if they add Johan the impact will be devastating for the rest of baseball, especially in October. Arod and Johan on the same team? Who is going to stop them?

[Wade2k6]

That's a fair point, it's not like Ellsbury is a Reyes type lead off hitter.
He may be in fact become only a 10-60 guy but I think the Twins see him
as one of those guys whose stats don't tell the whole story about his play.
He puts the ball in play frequently, seems to have the make up a clutch hitter and plays solid defense. I still think he and Buchholz ought to be essential to any Johan deal with Boston.

I really like Hughes. He certainly has more statistical upside over Ellsbury. I prefer him over either Joba or Kennedy. The problem for me with the Yankee's offer is that it needs to include two more high quality pieces - either top prospects or Cano. Hughes has a chance to be special but giving up Johan and taking that risk merits two more high quality trade pieces. Bill Beane, who knows a thing or two about trades is demanding Hughes or Joba and Tabata as the basis of a Dan Haren deal.

What if they Yankees give up Hughes, Cano, Jackson or Tabata and two lesser prospects? I still think that is a no brainer if I'm Cashman. Hughes has a chance - yes, but losing him and adding Johan STILL improves their pitching way more than the loss of Cano and a top prospect hurts the murder's row line up. I am convinced that if they add Johan the impact will be devastating for the rest of baseball, especially in October. Arod and Johan on the same team? Who is going to stop them?

Hughes, Cano, Tabata/Jackson? You're correct about one thing, it is a no brainer for Cashman. No chance the yankees do that sort of deal.

[nykgeneralmanager]

I'm not arguing that Ellsbury won't be a good player, he can definitely have a great impact beyond his statistics. However, he doesn't compare to Kennedy, none the less Phil Hughes (who is light years ahead of Kennedy).

As for that offer, there is no chance. The Yankees took 3 days of internal discussions to put Hughes+Melky on the table (which I am against). No way they throw in the 2nd best 2B in baseball plus the team's best hitting prospect on top of that.

[daddyfivestar]

I'd take an Ace over a CF any day (except Kirby of course) ie Hughes + over Ellsbury +. Especially if Boston is reducing the package w him in it.

I think it's time to get the Angels on the phone since the Cabrera deal has died down. I'd take Kendrick to fill the 2b hole, Joe Saunders LHP potential #1, definite #2 or 3 right now, Reggie Willits (they have 6 OFs now and he will not play much - hit 293 and super quick) to play CF/leadoff, and a minor league pitcher (not Adenhart - they'd say no) like the stud they have going into A ball (Jordan something).

OF Young/Willits/Cuddy
IF Punto/Harris/Kendrick/Morneau/Mauer
DH Kubel v righties/Monroe v lefties

Saunders will fill Garza's shoes immediately, obviously no Ace but that's to be expected.