Sixers Offseason Thread Part 2

[mjkvol]

Man the sky is blue. Morey should just resign now then

-FireMorey

Morey should have been fired after the Harden debacle. Instead he got a contract extension.

Let's see if he can save himself in the next week.

Yes, it was a disaster getting us closer to the finals than at any time in the Embiid era and still managing to get a haul of picks and players for Harden, who everyone was convinced was a dead asset.

[FireMorey]

Recency bias I think has kind of warped peoples brains a bit. Because of how the Knicks series went, everyone wants role players now. Stars are what win in the NBA. Always has been, always will be. The NBA hasn't changed, the CBA has changed. It's just made it harder for teams to amass stars, but if teams can manage it with cap constraints, those will be the teams that can win.

As imperfect as PG or Butler are, I'll take them 10 times out of 10 over a combination of role players. Especially role players you are going to have to overpay for. If the Sixers could somehow compile a roster of really good role players under team friendly deals, then it would be a much closer debate, but you're talking about paying KCP 20-25m, paying Anunoby 35-40m, etc.

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

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[AI_Efficiency]

Man the sky is blue. Morey should just resign now then

-FireMorey

Morey should have been fired after the Harden debacle. Instead he got a contract extension.

Let's see if he can save himself in the next week.

Yes, it was a disaster getting us closer to the finals than at any time in the Embiid era and still managing to get a haul of picks and players for Harden, who everyone was convinced was a dead asset.

I’m rooting for Morey, but he has to deliver this offseason. The harden situation was one of his own creation. Harden wanted to be here long term and allegedly never heard from Morey after the season ended. I know we had just had the tampering hit, but if Morey wanted him here, they could have figured it out. Morey didn’t want to give harden the max imo and was going to hard ball him when we were the only offer in town. Which is fine to play it that way, but Morey is then responsible when harden asks out and refuses to play for you. Morey also chose to not make a big mid season trade (like for OG or Siakam) and got back expiring players in the harden deal purposefully to have max cap space this summer. Again, that is fine, but you gotta deliver or it will be totally fair to second guess whether this plan made sense.

[mjkvol]

If true, it's kinda sad PG is giving every indication he doesn't want to be here, yet Morey's still alivating at signing him like a lap dog.

Stein saying it's still very unlikely OG leaves New York.

I think it will be Butler or Ingram. The Butler path just makes rounding out the roster so difficult.

Really hoping that all these choices get taken out of Morey's hands - George and OG stay, Ingram goes to Cleveland, Lavine is traded somewhere, and Butler stays in Miami. Sign DeRozan and fill out the roster with solid role players and picks. We have a competitive team and Morey has some ammo to fine tune at the deadline. Done.

You know I agree with you on all accounts except Ingram. I will die on this hill LOL.

I'm so split on Ingram. I think the Tobias comparisons are absurd, as Ingram has shown in big spots that he can carry an offense, but I don't like giving up serious draft capital and especially don't like that he's looking for a max contract and will have us hostage.

[Embiid P]

Recency bias I think has kind of warped peoples brains a bit. Because of how the Knicks series went, everyone wants role players now. Stars are what win in the NBA. Always has been, always will be. The NBA hasn't changed, the CBA has changed. It's just made it harder for teams to amass stars, but if teams can manage it with cap constraints, those will be the teams that can win.

As imperfect as PG or Butler are, I'll take them 10 times out of 10 over a combination of role players. Especially role players you are going to have to overpay for. If the Sixers could somehow compile a roster of really good role players under team friendly deals, then it would be a much closer debate, but you're talking about paying KCP 20-25m, paying Anunoby 35-40m, etc.

No doubt that stars win titles, but having too many stars will drastically deplete a team's depth. They need to be surrounded with role players that fit their games. Look how the 3 star approach has worked in Phoenix for instance. The only time that it could conceivably work in today's NBA with the second luxury tax apron to consider is if you have a bunch of young players or G leaguers on cheap contracts who can contribute. Sadly, we are sorely lacking in that department.

[mjkvol]

Morey should have been fired after the Harden debacle. Instead he got a contract extension.

Let's see if he can save himself in the next week.

Yes, it was a disaster getting us closer to the finals than at any time in the Embiid era and still managing to get a haul of picks and players for Harden, who everyone was convinced was a dead asset.

I’m rooting for Morey, but he has to deliver this offseason. The harden situation was one of his own creation. Harden wanted to be here long term and allegedly never heard from Morey after the season ended. I know we had just had the tampering hit, but if Morey wanted him here, they could have figured it out. Morey didn’t want to give harden the max imo and was going to hard ball him when we were the only offer in town. Which is fine to play it that way, but Morey is then responsible when harden asks out and refuses to play for you. Morey also chose to not make a big mid season trade (like for OG or Siakam) and got back expiring players in the harden deal purposefully to have max cap space this summer. Again, that is fine, but you gotta deliver or it will be totally fair to second guess whether this plan made sense.

I don't disagree with the idea that Morey sold out to create the cap space scenario we are in and needs to make things happen. I just don't think it needs to be a finished product this off season if the right deals aren't there. Signing a DeRozan type and filling out the roster with tradeable role players isn't as bad an idea IMO as throwing a max deal at an aging player or using all our draft capital plus a max contract, just because he is considered a "star" by the national media. I'm just not ready to draw conclusions on Morey until this is all said and done, and that might not be until spring-summer 2025.

[youngcrev]

Would you agree that the Sixers need a combination of 2 out of these SG SF's or else I think this team just can't compete.

Then, do they have enough money to build out a team.

Not looking great.

SG SF Priority
Mikal Bridges
Butler*
Lauri
PG
OG*

No, I don't agree that they need 2 of those guys to compete (and clearly, they can't get 2 of those guys)

[NYSixersFan]

Man the sky is blue. Morey should just resign now then

-FireMorey

Morey should have been fired after the Harden debacle. Instead he got a contract extension.

Let's see if he can save himself in the next week.

Yes, it was a disaster getting us closer to the finals than at any time in the Embiid era and still managing to get a haul of picks and players for Harden, who everyone was convinced was a dead asset.

Harden was on the 2019 team? I must have missed that

[MoeGreene]

Well that's a shame. 2nd round exits are inevitable. Glad to hear you think otherwise.

Would you agree that the Sixers need a combination of 2 out of these SG SF's or else I think this team just can't compete.

Then, do they have enough money to build out a team.

Not looking great.

SG SF Priority
Mikal Bridges
Butler*
Lauri
PG
OG*

No, I don't agree that they need 2 of those guys to compete (and clearly, they can't get 2 of those guys)

[HotelVitale]

Morey should have been fired after the Harden debacle. Instead he got a contract extension.

Let's see if he can save himself in the next week.

Yes, it was a disaster getting us closer to the finals than at any time in the Embiid era and still managing to get a haul of picks and players for Harden, who everyone was convinced was a dead asset.

I’m rooting for Morey, but he has to deliver this offseason. The harden situation was one of his own creation. Harden wanted to be here long term and allegedly never heard from Morey after the season ended. I know we had just had the tampering hit, but if Morey wanted him here, they could have figured it out. Morey didn’t want to give harden the max imo and was going to hard ball him when we were the only offer in town. Which is fine to play it that way, but Morey is then responsible when harden asks out and refuses to play for you. Morey also chose to not make a big mid season trade (like for OG or Siakam) and got back expiring players in the harden deal purposefully to have max cap space this summer. Again, that is fine, but you gotta deliver or it will be totally fair to second guess whether this plan made sense.

I’m not a huge Morey guy but paying big for OG and Siakam and then maxing them doesn’t sound that great either, so I’m inclined not to say he either needs to deliver a title contender over the next month or else kick rocks. I think he saw that type move wasn’t going to do it so he should give himself lots of options to do something that could.

I do think he values patience and the vaguely possible perfect scenario over just building a good team piece by piece, and I’d like to see us at least hit a single or two this year, and maybe keep some powder dry too.

Also does anyone think not re-signing Harden to a long expensive contract was a bad move at this point? Besides that Nba4lyfe guy on the GB of course.

[AI_Efficiency]

Yes, it was a disaster getting us closer to the finals than at any time in the Embiid era and still managing to get a haul of picks and players for Harden, who everyone was convinced was a dead asset.

I’m rooting for Morey, but he has to deliver this offseason. The harden situation was one of his own creation. Harden wanted to be here long term and allegedly never heard from Morey after the season ended. I know we had just had the tampering hit, but if Morey wanted him here, they could have figured it out. Morey didn’t want to give harden the max imo and was going to hard ball him when we were the only offer in town. Which is fine to play it that way, but Morey is then responsible when harden asks out and refuses to play for you. Morey also chose to not make a big mid season trade (like for OG or Siakam) and got back expiring players in the harden deal purposefully to have max cap space this summer. Again, that is fine, but you gotta deliver or it will be totally fair to second guess whether this plan made sense.

I’m not a huge Morey guy but paying big for OG and Siakam and then maxing them doesn’t sound that great either, so I’m inclined not to say he either needs to deliver a title contender over the next month or else kick rocks. I think he saw that type move wasn’t going to do it so he should give himself lots of options to do something that could.

I do think he values patience and the vaguely possible perfect scenario over just building a good team piece by piece, and I’d like to see us at least hit a single or two this year, and maybe keep some powder dry too.

Also does anyone think not re-signing Harden to a long expensive contract was a bad move at this point? Besides that Nba4lyfe guy on the GB of course.

I tend to think the moves we will make will be better than the outcomes had we re-signed harden in some fashion, or trading everything for a Siakam / OG type last year, but I guess that is the bar for me right. If we somehow strike out completely and those would have been better options, the criticisms of Morey would be fair.

Also, hindsight is 20/20, but the point differential in the Knicks series was tiny and Indiana wasn’t world beaters. Getting any kinda of non-trivial upgrade last season could have gotten us to embiid’s first ever ECF and then maybe embiid is healthier by then and who knows what happens. I still think saving our assets is probably best, but I guess we are going to see soon enough.

[HotelVitale]

I’m rooting for Morey, but he has to deliver this offseason. The harden situation was one of his own creation. Harden wanted to be here long term and allegedly never heard from Morey after the season ended. I know we had just had the tampering hit, but if Morey wanted him here, they could have figured it out. Morey didn’t want to give harden the max imo and was going to hard ball him when we were the only offer in town. Which is fine to play it that way, but Morey is then responsible when harden asks out and refuses to play for you. Morey also chose to not make a big mid season trade (like for OG or Siakam) and got back expiring players in the harden deal purposefully to have max cap space this summer. Again, that is fine, but you gotta deliver or it will be totally fair to second guess whether this plan made sense.

I’m not a huge Morey guy but paying big for OG and Siakam and then maxing them doesn’t sound that great either, so I’m inclined not to say he either needs to deliver a title contender over the next month or else kick rocks. I think he saw that type move wasn’t going to do it so he should give himself lots of options to do something that could.

I do think he values patience and the vaguely possible perfect scenario over just building a good team piece by piece, and I’d like to see us at least hit a single or two this year, and maybe keep some powder dry too.

Also does anyone think not re-signing Harden to a long expensive contract was a bad move at this point? Besides that Nba4lyfe guy on the GB of course.

I tend to think the moves we will make will be better than the outcomes had we re-signed harden in some fashion, or trading everything for a Siakam / OG type last year, but I guess that is the bar for me right. If we somehow strike out completely and those would have been better options, the criticisms of Morey would be fair.

Guess my questions would focus more on the team being better than validating criticisms someone else is making.

[FireMorey]

Recency bias I think has kind of warped peoples brains a bit. Because of how the Knicks series went, everyone wants role players now. Stars are what win in the NBA. Always has been, always will be. The NBA hasn't changed, the CBA has changed. It's just made it harder for teams to amass stars, but if teams can manage it with cap constraints, those will be the teams that can win.

As imperfect as PG or Butler are, I'll take them 10 times out of 10 over a combination of role players. Especially role players you are going to have to overpay for. If the Sixers could somehow compile a roster of really good role players under team friendly deals, then it would be a much closer debate, but you're talking about paying KCP 20-25m, paying Anunoby 35-40m, etc.

No doubt that stars win titles, but having too many stars will drastically deplete a team's depth. They need to be surrounded with role players that fit their games. Look how the 3 star approach has worked in Phoenix for instance. The only time that it could conceivably work in today's NBA with the second luxury tax apron to consider is if you have a bunch of young players or G leaguers on cheap contracts who can contribute. Sadly, we are sorely lacking in that department.

That is true, but everything in life is about trade offs. That's why you have to draft well. They could add two depth rotation guys in this year's draft alone if they draft and develop well. They are much easier to find than high end players.

[Jailblazers7]

Losing Isaiah Joe for nothing is even more brutal heading into this offseason. Perfect fit role player for any team we build or a solid young player who could’ve been used for a trade.

[ProcessDoctor]

Now Stein saying George is likely opting in to pursue a trade lol. George never wanted to be here.

Dudes would rather opt in and force a trade than just walk in here for max money.

[Kobblehead]

I wouldn't even call the Clippers. Waste of time. George has no value as a sign and trade. He's an albatross on a 4 year max, let alone a 5th year max that you have to surrender additional assets for.

[the_process]

Now Stein saying George is likely opting in to pursue a trade lol. George never wanted to be here.

Dudes would rather opt in and force a trade than just walk in here for max money.

He’s not a Philly type of guy, and clearly he and Harden spoke about Morey. It’s whatever. Now Morey has to move on and dig something else up.

Morey does have to deliver this summer. Can’t be trade the picks for Ingram or Butler, max them out, then sign a bunch of mediocre ex-Rockets. That’s not team building. But let’s see what he does between now and Eagles training camp.

[ProcessDoctor]

Now Stein saying George is likely opting in to pursue a trade lol. George never wanted to be here.

Dudes would rather opt in and force a trade than just walk in here for max money.

He’s not a Philly type of guy, and clearly he and Harden spoke about Morey. It’s whatever. Now Morey has to move on and dig something else up.

Morey does have to deliver this summer. Can’t be trade the picks for Ingram or Butler, max them out, then sign a bunch of mediocre ex-Rockets. That’s not team building. But let’s see what he does between now and Eagles training camp.

Morey really does have to strike fast. He can’t fool around all summer like he has the past 2. This really is it.

[Mik317]

if Morey puts together another duct tape squad then yeah he should get heat...and he will.

Being pre-emptively mad at moves that hasn't happened yet feels weird lol. Hell even when the moves do happen...until you see it on the court, its hard to say. I hope he has a bunch of Oubre level signings in the wings in terms of dudes we aren't thinking about and may not sound great at the time but turn out pretty good for us.

Been saying it for months now, I just want to see a plan and some creativity...I don't even have to agree with it honestly. I am fully expecting to crash out when he trades the 16 for some old dude but deep down I will hope it proves me wrong too.

Basically unless he just runs it back with the same flawed roster, I will save my ire if the season starts and the roster doesn't work. Said I am going to give his "plan" time to actually happen even if I don't quite see the vision at the moment.