Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

[Guest84]

I preface by saying neither player is my first choice if making a significant trade. With that said, are we overvaluing the fit of Dejounte Murray and undervaluing the fit of Trae Young on this team?

Trae is a career 25/9 guy and we know he's a competitor when the lights are bright. Even with his slight build, he took a mediocre Hawks to the ECF a few years back. How does that Hawks team stack up to this Wolves team?

What would it look like with Trae paired with defenders like Ant, Jaden, Rudy, and whoever is slotted in at the 4 (assuming Towns is traded)?

While not Steph, players have to respect his 3pt shot. He's also a floater/lob threat which benefits Rudy.

On the flip side, Murray did avg 23-7-7 in his one playoff run with Atl in 22-23 (5 games) while Trae was 29-10-3.7 (6 games) that year. 2 of 3 seasons in the playoffs, Trae has avg 28+ppg and 9+apg, 21-22 was a poor showing though. I don't recall why that was as I didn't really pay attention.

Thoughts??

Gross.

I think Trae is super overrated. He's a good, but far from great, shooter and he's the worst defender in the game. He's 6'1 with a 6'2 wingspan and weighs under a buck seventy. He's always going to be hunted on defense and he doesn't have the physical ability to switch at all.

The one thing I like about his game is he gets to the line a ton. Something we need, but I'm jaded enough to think his foul-hunting style wouldn't fly as a Timberwolf...

And is he really a good Playoff performer, or does he just shoot a whole lot to get his numbers? He's a career 40/30 shooter in the postseason. He's only shot better than 33% from 3 in a single Playoff series in his career - and it was his very first one. Plus he's only a 2:1 AST/TO guy in the Playoffs as well.

Understood. How much of it is due to his supporting cast in regards to his numbers? Could his efficiency improve with the wolves? More catch and shoot 3s at times vs contested pull-ups?

While I prefer big guards/wings, I think you'd have to at least consider him as a potential option but not necessarily THE option. Idk, just wondering is all really.

[Klomp]

I preface by saying neither player is my first choice if making a significant trade. With that said, are we overvaluing the fit of Dejounte Murray and undervaluing the fit of Trae Young on this team?

Trae is a career 25/9 guy and we know he's a competitor when the lights are bright. Even with his slight build, he took a mediocre Hawks to the ECF a few years back. How does that Hawks team stack up to this Wolves team?

What would it look like with Trae paired with defenders like Ant, Jaden, Rudy, and whoever is slotted in at the 4 (assuming Towns is traded)?

While not Steph, players have to respect his 3pt shot. He's also a floater/lob threat which benefits Rudy.

On the flip side, Murray did avg 23-7-7 in his one playoff run with Atl in 22-23 (5 games) while Trae was 29-10-3.7 (6 games) that year. 2 of 3 seasons in the playoffs, Trae has avg 28+ppg and 9+apg, 21-22 was a poor showing though. I don't recall why that was as I didn't really pay attention.

Thoughts??

Gross.

I think Trae is super overrated. He's a good, but far from great, shooter and he's the worst defender in the game. He's 6'1 with a 6'2 wingspan and weighs under a buck seventy. He's always going to be hunted on defense and he doesn't have the physical ability to switch at all.

The one thing I like about his game is he gets to the line a ton. Something we need, but I'm jaded enough to think his foul-hunting style wouldn't fly as a Timberwolf...

And is he really a good Playoff performer, or does he just shoot a whole lot to get his numbers? He's a career 40/30 shooter in the postseason. He's only shot better than 33% from 3 in a single Playoff series in his career - and it was his very first one. Plus he's only a 2:1 AST/TO guy in the Playoffs as well.

Understood. How much of it is due to his supporting cast in regards to his numbers? Could his efficiency improve with the wolves? More catch and shoot 3s at times vs contested pull-ups?

While I prefer big guards/wings, I think you'd have to at least consider him as a potential option but not necessarily THE option. Idk, just wondering is all really.

I think this is a situation where it's more like the person than it is the system. I'm not sure his teammates are to blame for his shot selection. Same thing happened at Oklahoma. He's like a rich man's D'Angelo Russell...which is why it's hilarious that the Lakers are the frontrunner for him if he's traded.

[shrink]

I preface by saying neither player is my first choice if making a significant trade. With that said, are we overvaluing the fit of Dejounte Murray and undervaluing the fit of Trae Young on this team?

Trae is a career 25/9 guy and we know he's a competitor when the lights are bright. Even with his slight build, he took a mediocre Hawks to the ECF a few years back. How does that Hawks team stack up to this Wolves team?

What would it look like with Trae paired with defenders like Ant, Jaden, Rudy, and whoever is slotted in at the 4 (assuming Towns is traded)?

While not Steph, players have to respect his 3pt shot. He's also a floater/lob threat which benefits Rudy.

On the flip side, Murray did avg 23-7-7 in his one playoff run with Atl in 22-23 (5 games) while Trae was 29-10-3.7 (6 games) that year. 2 of 3 seasons in the playoffs, Trae has avg 28+ppg and 9+apg, 21-22 was a poor showing though. I don't recall why that was as I didn't really pay attention.

Thoughts??

You’re not alone (just not with me). Several people on the Trade Board have suggested sending Ant to MIN. Trae is a good offensive player, but he is so bad defensively that only a few teams could withstand him, and most of those don’t need a PG. That leaves them with very few trade partners, so people think about MIN.

However, I think he is a horrible fit in MIN, to it’s core. A few months back, I checked on D-LeBron to show that Gobert is the best at that stat in the whole NBA ..Trae is fifth worst. In fact, he has two of the three worst defensive seasons of the last five years. I feel KAT > Trae, because Trae is nearly impossible to build around. Moreover, Trae only benefits a team if it’s the Trae Show, and the ball is in his hands. We want MIN to become the Ant Show, right?

MIN’s identity is defense, and developing Ant to superstardom. Trae Young is the opposite of that.

[wolves_89]

I'm just curious about the pulse here on Wendell Moore. Would you trade him for 53, for example?

I would prefer trading him for a future 2nd, then use the roster slot on a (slightly cheaper) vet min roleplayer.

But yes

I wonder if Moore gets moved for basically nothing just to clear his roster spot. If the Wolves draft Baylor Scheierman or Jaylon Tyson they will likely jump ahead of Wendell on the depth chart, making it even more questionable that we would pick up Moore's 4th year option. I think if someone would take him into cap space or a TPE we should jump at the chance.

[shrink]

I'm just curious about the pulse here on Wendell Moore. Would you trade him for 53, for example?

I would prefer trading him for a future 2nd, then use the roster slot on a (slightly cheaper) vet min roleplayer.

But yes

I wonder if Moore gets moved for basically nothing just to clear his roster spot. If the Wolves draft Baylor Scheierman or Jaylon Tyson they will likely jump ahead of Wendell on the depth chart, making it even more questionable that we would pick up Moore's 4th year option. I think if someone would take him into cap space or a TPE we should jump at the chance.

I agree. I think Rosas’ [edit: Connelly - thanks Klomp] plan when he drafted Wendell Moore was that he would quickly become a cheap, innings-eating 3-and-D bench player at the end of the rotation. He never had much upside, but after three years at Duke, I think the belief was that he could step in right away.

That never happened, of course. WMJ has seemed over-matched when he’s gotten minutes, and for most of his career, almost all his minutes have come in garbage time. Even then, against other teams’ bench, he hasn’t looked better than the Wolves younger prospects with much higher upside. If Moore was better, he could fill a role as the regular season 11th-12th man, and injury replacement. But at this point, I think MIN would be better off giving the minutes to a better prospect, or a vet min guy. I think this is his last chance.

[BlacJacMac]

I would prefer trading him for a future 2nd, then use the roster slot on a (slightly cheaper) vet min roleplayer.

But yes

I wonder if Moore gets moved for basically nothing just to clear his roster spot. If the Wolves draft Baylor Scheierman or Jaylon Tyson they will likely jump ahead of Wendell on the depth chart, making it even more questionable that we would pick up Moore's 4th year option. I think if someone would take him into cap space or a TPE we should jump at the chance.

I agree. I think Rosas’ plan when he drafted Wendell Moore was that he would quickly become a cheap, innings-eating 3-and-D bench player at the end of the rotation. He never had much upside, but after three years at Duke, I think the belief was that he could step in right away.

That never happened, of course. WMJ has seemed over-matched when he’s gotten minutes, and for most of his career, almost all his minutes have come in garbage time. Even then, against other teams’ bench, he hasn’t looked better than the Wolves younger prospects with much higher upside. If Moore was better, he could fill a role as the regular season 11th-12th man, and injury replacement. But at this point, I think MIN would be better off giving the minutes to a better prospect, or a vet min guy. I think this is his last chance.

Its a shame. Great physical profile too (6'5.5, solid frame, 7' wingspan).

[Klomp]

I would prefer trading him for a future 2nd, then use the roster slot on a (slightly cheaper) vet min roleplayer.

But yes

I wonder if Moore gets moved for basically nothing just to clear his roster spot. If the Wolves draft Baylor Scheierman or Jaylon Tyson they will likely jump ahead of Wendell on the depth chart, making it even more questionable that we would pick up Moore's 4th year option. I think if someone would take him into cap space or a TPE we should jump at the chance.

I agree. I think Rosas’ plan when he drafted Wendell Moore was that he would quickly become a cheap, innings-eating 3-and-D bench player at the end of the rotation. He never had much upside, but after three years at Duke, I think the belief was that he could step in right away.

That never happened, of course. WMJ has seemed over-matched when he’s gotten minutes, and for most of his career, almost all his minutes have come in garbage time. Even then, against other teams’ bench, he hasn’t looked better than the Wolves younger prospects with much higher upside. If Moore was better, he could fill a role as the regular season 11th-12th man, and injury replacement. But at this point, I think MIN would be better off giving the minutes to a better prospect, or a vet min guy. I think this is his last chance.

Sorry to say, but he was a Tim pick. That first draft was Kessler, Moore and Minott.

I think Tim envisioned a full-realized Wendell to be in the role that Nickeil is in now. I think it's a mindset and a positional prototype he brought over from Denver, where they've had Bruce Brown and KCP playing off of their two stars.

[Klomp]

Another fun trade idea, before the new year:

Wendell Moore and Josh Minott for Bones Hyland

The Clippers are at a point where they need bodies and they need tax savings. I don't think they see Bones as part of the future. So take an opportunity to either take a flier on a couple of new young guys, or waive Minott's unguaranteed deal before the 30th and save $1.6 million in cap and who knows how much in tax savings.

For us, it's a flier on someone who Tim knows at a position of need.

[shrink]

Another fun trade idea, before the new year:

Wendell Moore and Josh Minott for Bones Hyland

The Clippers are at a point where they need bodies and they need tax savings. I don't think they see Bones as part of the future. So take an opportunity to either take a flier on a couple of new young guys, or waive Minott's unguaranteed deal before the 30th and save $1.6 million in cap and who knows how much in tax savings.

For us, it's a flier on someone who Tim knows at a position of need.

Our full second apron restrictions kicked in the day after our season ended, so we can’t aggregate salaries, even small ones.

[frankenwolf]

Another fun trade idea, before the new year:

Wendell Moore and Josh Minott for Bones Hyland

The Clippers are at a point where they need bodies and they need tax savings. I don't think they see Bones as part of the future. So take an opportunity to either take a flier on a couple of new young guys, or waive Minott's unguaranteed deal before the 30th and save $1.6 million in cap and who knows how much in tax savings.

For us, it's a flier on someone who Tim knows at a position of need.

Our full second apron restrictions kicked in the day after our season ended, so we can’t aggregate salaries, even small ones.

Shrink, don't we have this week before the new year starts to do something like this?

[Klomp]

Another fun trade idea, before the new year:

Wendell Moore and Josh Minott for Bones Hyland

The Clippers are at a point where they need bodies and they need tax savings. I don't think they see Bones as part of the future. So take an opportunity to either take a flier on a couple of new young guys, or waive Minott's unguaranteed deal before the 30th and save $1.6 million in cap and who knows how much in tax savings.

For us, it's a flier on someone who Tim knows at a position of need.

Our full second apron restrictions kicked in the day after our season ended, so we can’t aggregate salaries, even small ones.

1. What frankenwolf asked
2. Technically, I think Minott's unguaranteed money might not get counted in the trade calculation....but then if the second apron penalties are already in effect, we may not be able to add money in a trade.

[shrink]

Another fun trade idea, before the new year:

Wendell Moore and Josh Minott for Bones Hyland

The Clippers are at a point where they need bodies and they need tax savings. I don't think they see Bones as part of the future. So take an opportunity to either take a flier on a couple of new young guys, or waive Minott's unguaranteed deal before the 30th and save $1.6 million in cap and who knows how much in tax savings.

For us, it's a flier on someone who Tim knows at a position of need.

Our full second apron restrictions kicked in the day after our season ended, so we can’t aggregate salaries, even small ones.

Shrink, don't we have this week before the new year starts to do something like this?

I thought we did too, but I went looking for clarification on using our TPE’s before it hit - found out all the second apron restrictions happen immediately after the season ends.

Note that this doesn’t mean that you can’t trade players, if they have guaranteed money for next year (Iike the Caruso trade). But for us, a trade still needs to meet those second apron restrictions.

If there’s other info out there, please send me a link. This between-seasons gray area has always confused me for years, since we traded Foye and Mike Miller for Rubio’s pick

[frankenwolf]

Our full second apron restrictions kicked in the day after our season ended, so we can’t aggregate salaries, even small ones.

Shrink, don't we have this week before the new year starts to do something like this?

I thought we did too, but I went looking for clarification on using our TPE’s before it hit - found out all the second apron restrictions happen immediately after the season ends.

Note that this doesn’t mean that you can’t trade players, if they have guaranteed money for next year (Iike the Caruso trade). But for us, a trade still needs to meet those second apron restrictions.

Just to clarify, you mean season end, not year end, correct?

[shrink]

Shrink, don't we have this week before the new year starts to do something like this?

I thought we did too, but I went looking for clarification on using our TPE’s before it hit - found out all the second apron restrictions happen immediately after the season ends.

Note that this doesn’t mean that you can’t trade players, if they have guaranteed money for next year (Iike the Caruso trade). But for us, a trade still needs to meet those second apron restrictions.

Just to clarify, you mean season end, not year end, correct?

Good catch. I should say OUR season ends, which means after we finished the last game against Dallas.

[frankenwolf]

I thought we did too, but I went looking for clarification on using our TPE’s before it hit - found out all the second apron restrictions happen immediately after the season ends.

Note that this doesn’t mean that you can’t trade players, if they have guaranteed money for next year (Iike the Caruso trade). But for us, a trade still needs to meet those second apron restrictions.

Just to clarify, you mean season end, not year end, correct?

Good catch. I should say OUR season ends, which means after we finished the last game against Dallas.

OK, I had just read elsewhere that we had this week to do something before everything kicked in. Thanks for the help!

[TimberKat]

Just to clarify, you mean season end, not year end, correct?

Good catch. I should say OUR season ends, which means after we finished the last game against Dallas.

OK, I had just read elsewhere that we had this week to do something before everything kicked in. Thanks for the help!

Something like a Towns and our #1 for KD or 'X' would need to happen this week.

[Neeva]

The number one is going the wrong way in that KD trade.

[LookToShoot]

Just a suggestion

Nets receive: KAT

Timberwolves receive: Ben Simmons (ball handling, defense, expiring deal), Cam Thomas (can create his own shot, sixth man role).

Starters: Simmons, Ant, McDaniels, Naz, Rudy

This trade also lowers the Timberwolves payroll for the 2025 season.

[MN7725]

Starters: Simmons, Rudy

might want to think that through
even if this was All-star caliber Simmons of a few years ago

[jscott]

Just a suggestion

Nets receive: KAT

Timberwolves receive: Ben Simmons (ball handling, defense, expiring deal), Cam Thomas (can create his own shot, sixth man role).

Starters: Simmons, Ant, McDaniels, Naz, Rudy

This trade also lowers the Timberwolves payroll for the 2025 season.

Umm. No.

The value for the Wolves is isn’t close to enough for Simmons.