2023-24 General Thread

[OxAndFox]

Regardless it looks like Monte is trying to get more defenders in here. Caruso was the best available. Who is next?

[FarBeyondDriven]

https://kingsherald.com/articles/report-kings-shopping-the-13th-pick-were-close-on-caruso/

Kings almost traded the 13th for Caruso..

Apparently its the Kings who need to be incentivized to get Lavine.

embarrassing. We're not a serious organization if this is true. #13 pick for an oft-injured 30 y/o role averaging 7-3-3 for his career. This is exactly the wrong move a team that is not a role player away from competing makes that keeps them from being competitive long-term. There should be several players with much better careers than Caruso available at #13. Guys that can help us win immediately too. This screams of a franchise that doesn't evaluate talent well nor has a grasp on how to build a sustained winner. It's really difficult being a fan of this team.

[typedrat]

Honestly, I partly blame how strong the public pressure to "do something!" is... although if that's true, that in and of itself is troubling.

[BoogieTime]

Honestly, I partly blame how strong the public pressure to "do something!" is... although if that's true, that in and of itself is troubling.

I don't think so. I think its natural for vet teams with set franchise players to go that route, and not youth. Hence, pretty much all playoff/playin teams have traded picks for win now talent except some teams like Orlando/Thunder who are young and just on the scene.

[Jkam31]

Curious what Sac does here.

I'm still on board with going the cheaper route and chasing someone like John Collins instead of giving up our pick.

We traded last years pick to dump Holmes
We hopefully won't have next years either

Might be important to use this years pick to add some cheap/upside talent while we still can.

Barnes/Huerter for Collins
Dump Sasha somewhere
(these 2 moves save us 15 million)
Use the MLE on Jalen Smith
Draft one of the forwards

Fox - Keon - Keegan - Collins - Sabonis
Mitchell/Colby - Monk - #13 - Lyles - Smith

That's an interesting rotation going into next year. Add some size with capable shooting in the front court, and another forward we can develop.

Collins doesn’t raise our ceiling I think kuzma/Grant could raise our ceiling

Judging based on fit/cost/salary, I'm all the way out on Grant.

Kuzma Ive come around on, but I'm not sure what more he brings that Collins can't. People forgetting Collins was a 20/10 guy (16/8 for his career) who could hit a 3. He's mobile, athletic, can rebound, can get his own bucket, and would be a good threat off the bounce with Sabonis/Monk. He's also 2 years younger than Kuzma.

To me its
Kuzma vs Collins + 13. I'd rather take the risk that Collins revives his career with us and we hit on 13.

I honestly think grant is the best of the bunch he has the best defense imagine closing games with Keegan, Fox, ellis, and Grant thats three good to elite wing defenders. He’s all the best offensive player/ shooter 40% the last two years as a number one option

[Jkam31]

https://kingsherald.com/articles/report-kings-shopping-the-13th-pick-were-close-on-caruso/

Kings almost traded the 13th for Caruso..

Apparently its the Kings who need to be incentivized to get Lavine.

embarrassing. We're not a serious organization if this is true. #13 pick for an oft-injured 30 y/o role averaging 7-3-3 for his career. This is exactly the wrong move a team that is not a role player away from competing makes that keeps them from being competitive long-term. There should be several players with much better careers than Caruso available at #13. Guys that can help us win immediately too. This screams of a franchise that doesn't evaluate talent well nor has a grasp on how to build a sustained winner. It's really difficult being a fan of this team.

Lmao what an absolutely terrible take! Dudes an all nba defender but ya the 13th pick is better come on man

[LightTheBeam]

Collins doesn’t raise our ceiling I think kuzma/Grant could raise our ceiling

Judging based on fit/cost/salary, I'm all the way out on Grant.

Kuzma Ive come around on, but I'm not sure what more he brings that Collins can't. People forgetting Collins was a 20/10 guy (16/8 for his career) who could hit a 3. He's mobile, athletic, can rebound, can get his own bucket, and would be a good threat off the bounce with Sabonis/Monk. He's also 2 years younger than Kuzma.

To me its
Kuzma vs Collins + 13. I'd rather take the risk that Collins revives his career with us and we hit on 13.

I honestly think grant is the best of the bunch he has the best defense imagine closing games with Keegan, Fox, ellis, and Grant thats three good to elite wing defenders. He’s all the best offensive player/ shooter 40% the last two years as a number one option

At his best he's a 12-15ppg guy in sac. He's on the wrong side of 30, he doesnt rebound, and he's getting paid an absurd amount. I have him as the best player for 1-2 years but a franchise crippling contract.

If we were the mavs or Minnesota and it felt we were one piece away I'd prefer Grant. I just don't think we are a Grant away so I'd rather Collins or Kuzma who gives us the flexibility to find the right piece down the road.

[LightTheBeam]

https://kingsherald.com/articles/report-kings-shopping-the-13th-pick-were-close-on-caruso/

Kings almost traded the 13th for Caruso..

Apparently its the Kings who need to be incentivized to get Lavine.

embarrassing. We're not a serious organization if this is true. #13 pick for an oft-injured 30 y/o role averaging 7-3-3 for his career. This is exactly the wrong move a team that is not a role player away from competing makes that keeps them from being competitive long-term. There should be several players with much better careers than Caruso available at #13. Guys that can help us win immediately too. This screams of a franchise that doesn't evaluate talent well nor has a grasp on how to build a sustained winner. It's really difficult being a fan of this team.

Every winning team in the league would love to add Caruso. Unfortunately we don't have many assets, so it was an overpay but one they thought was worth it. I'm glad we didn't do it because we need forward help but he's a huge piece on a contender and an all defense 1st team type player.

[BoogieTime]

https://kingsherald.com/articles/report-kings-shopping-the-13th-pick-were-close-on-caruso/

Kings almost traded the 13th for Caruso..

Apparently its the Kings who need to be incentivized to get Lavine.

embarrassing. We're not a serious organization if this is true. #13 pick for an oft-injured 30 y/o role averaging 7-3-3 for his career. This is exactly the wrong move a team that is not a role player away from competing makes that keeps them from being competitive long-term. There should be several players with much better careers than Caruso available at #13. Guys that can help us win immediately too. This screams of a franchise that doesn't evaluate talent well nor has a grasp on how to build a sustained winner. It's really difficult being a fan of this team.

Every winning team in the league would love to add Caruso. Unfortunately we don't have many assets, so it was an overpay but one they thought was worth it. I'm glad we didn't do it because we need forward help but he's a huge piece on a contender and an all defense 1st team type player.

Giddey is worth more than 13, so some thought it was an underpay.

[LightTheBeam]

embarrassing. We're not a serious organization if this is true. #13 pick for an oft-injured 30 y/o role averaging 7-3-3 for his career. This is exactly the wrong move a team that is not a role player away from competing makes that keeps them from being competitive long-term. There should be several players with much better careers than Caruso available at #13. Guys that can help us win immediately too. This screams of a franchise that doesn't evaluate talent well nor has a grasp on how to build a sustained winner. It's really difficult being a fan of this team.

Every winning team in the league would love to add Caruso. Unfortunately we don't have many assets, so it was an overpay but one they thought was worth it. I'm glad we didn't do it because we need forward help but he's a huge piece on a contender and an all defense 1st team type player.

Giddey is worth more than 13, so some thought it was an underpay.

I have Giddey as a nothing. Seems giddey value is a hot topic across the world, with everyone split from negative to worth a top 10 pick.

I think he became unplayable in the playoffs, and okc had zero plans to keep him. I also think most teams in the league wouldn't pay a 1st of any kind for him. Guess we will really never know.

[codydaze]

I also don't think 13 would have been an overpay for Caruso, I feel like it would have been just about right in terms of value. A Fox/Keon backcourt with Monk/Caruso backing them up would probably be one of the top 4 guard rotations in the league, if not the best. I do agree though it would have left us with less flexibility to upgrade the forward spot which, in my opinion, is a bigger need.

[LightTheBeam]

I also don't think 13 would have been an overpay for Caruso, I feel like it would have been just about right in terms of value. A Fox/Keon backcourt with Monk/Caruso backing them up would probably be one of the top 4 guard rotations in the league, if not the best. I do agree though it would have left us with less flexibility to upgrade the forward spot which, in my opinion, is a bigger need.

Thinking in terms of what Boston paid for White. Richardson + 2022 1st (#25) and a swap that more than likely won't push. Richardson got traded for 4 2nds. White before the trade was a better player, younger, and locked in for 4 years.

Josh Hart went for #23

There really aren't a whole lot of similar players who went even a pick in the teens. Closest thing I can find it Marcus Smart, but he was definitely regarded higher than Caruso.

I like Caruso but offensively hes extremely limited, and he's not the missing piece for Sac.

[codydaze]

I also don't think 13 would have been an overpay for Caruso, I feel like it would have been just about right in terms of value. A Fox/Keon backcourt with Monk/Caruso backing them up would probably be one of the top 4 guard rotations in the league, if not the best. I do agree though it would have left us with less flexibility to upgrade the forward spot which, in my opinion, is a bigger need.

Thinking in terms of what Boston paid for White. Richardson + 2022 1st (#25) and a swap that more than likely won't push. Richardson got traded for 4 2nds. White before the trade was a better player, younger, and locked in for 4 years.

Josh Hart went for #23

There really aren't a whole lot of similar players who went even a pick in the teens. Closest thing I can find it Marcus Smart, but he was definitely regarded higher than Caruso.

I like Caruso but offensively hes extremely limited, and he's not the missing piece for Sac.

Portland also got Reddish (have never been high on him but he was a flyer on a young guy with potential) and Thybulle in that deal too so it wasn't straight up for #23.

I also wouldn't really consider him extremely limited on offense. He shot 40% from three (38% career from three) and was efficient overall at 61.3% TS%. Of the guys who were a regular part of the rotation, only Sabonis, Keon and Len were more efficient than him. He's just not going to be a volume scorer but that's not the reason we would be trading for him. A 2+ AST/TO ratio too with a better AST% than Davion.

Again, I agree that I would rather use the #13 to upgrade the forward but I do think Caruso would make a huge impact on this team.

[LightTheBeam]

I also don't think 13 would have been an overpay for Caruso, I feel like it would have been just about right in terms of value. A Fox/Keon backcourt with Monk/Caruso backing them up would probably be one of the top 4 guard rotations in the league, if not the best. I do agree though it would have left us with less flexibility to upgrade the forward spot which, in my opinion, is a bigger need.

Thinking in terms of what Boston paid for White. Richardson + 2022 1st (#25) and a swap that more than likely won't push. Richardson got traded for 4 2nds. White before the trade was a better player, younger, and locked in for 4 years.

Josh Hart went for #23

There really aren't a whole lot of similar players who went even a pick in the teens. Closest thing I can find it Marcus Smart, but he was definitely regarded higher than Caruso.

I like Caruso but offensively hes extremely limited, and he's not the missing piece for Sac.

Portland also got Reddish (have never been high on him but he was a flyer on a young guy with potential) and Thybulle in that deal too so it wasn't straight up for #23.

I also wouldn't really consider him extremely limited on offense. He shot 40% from three (38% career from three) and was efficient overall at 61.3% TS%. Of the guys who were a regular part of the rotation, only Sabonis, Keon and Len were more efficient than him. He's just not going to be a volume scorer but that's not the reason we would be trading for him. A 2+ AST/TO ratio too with a better AST% than Davion.

Again, I agree that I would rather use the #13 to upgrade the forward but I do think Caruso would make a huge impact on this team.

Not sure I buy the increased volume + percentage. That really carried the % up this past season. Prior to this season he was 36% on .63 makes a game. If last seasons volume/percentage were a fluke, I'm better off spending some 2nds and getting Thybulle. IMO we are anyways, because we are a small team who could benefit more from Thybulle length.

It would have been interesting for sure. I think every team needs a Caruso, I'm just very confident that long term Keon will be a better version.

[BoogieTime]

We’re still interested in Lavine but need assets to take him according to reports…

I’m not sure we will get much besides just getting rid of Huerter/Barnes… but adding Lavine and drafting or somehow getting Lavine/Kuzma with only the 13 in a three way?

[madskillz8]

I also don't think 13 would have been an overpay for Caruso, I feel like it would have been just about right in terms of value. A Fox/Keon backcourt with Monk/Caruso backing them up would probably be one of the top 4 guard rotations in the league, if not the best. I do agree though it would have left us with less flexibility to upgrade the forward spot which, in my opinion, is a bigger need.

Thinking in terms of what Boston paid for White. Richardson + 2022 1st (#25) and a swap that more than likely won't push. Richardson got traded for 4 2nds. White before the trade was a better player, younger, and locked in for 4 years.

Josh Hart went for #23

There really aren't a whole lot of similar players who went even a pick in the teens. Closest thing I can find it Marcus Smart, but he was definitely regarded higher than Caruso.

I like Caruso but offensively hes extremely limited, and he's not the missing piece for Sac.

Portland also got Reddish (have never been high on him but he was a flyer on a young guy with potential) and Thybulle in that deal too so it wasn't straight up for #23.

I also wouldn't really consider him extremely limited on offense. He shot 40% from three (38% career from three) and was efficient overall at 61.3% TS%. Of the guys who were a regular part of the rotation, only Sabonis, Keon and Len were more efficient than him. He's just not going to be a volume scorer but that's not the reason we would be trading for him. A 2+ AST/TO ratio too with a better AST% than Davion.

Again, I agree that I would rather use the #13 to upgrade the forward but I do think Caruso would make a huge impact on this team.

Given we resigned Monk, I'd say Caruso would have been only a slight upgrade over Davion & Ellis since we already have ~65 minutes covered at guard spots, with players better than him. It's not a good decision to give up 13 for a slight upgrade for a soon to be 31 years old & 20 millions per year player (more than Monk) with a questionable injury history, even though it is a fair trade value for Caruso. It's just not make sense for Kings.

[madskillz8]

We’re still interested in Lavine but need assets to take him according to reports…

I’m not sure we will get much besides just getting rid of Huerter/Barnes… but adding Lavine and drafting or somehow getting Lavine/Kuzma with only the 13 in a three way?

I'm having hard time understanding the LaVine love Kings FOs. Can someone explain the rationale? We already have Monk and Lavine is not addressing any glaring weaknesses. Not even saying he's one of the worst contracts in the league. What is the plan here? Playing him at 3 and make our average on a good day defense worse?

[codydaze]

Thinking in terms of what Boston paid for White. Richardson + 2022 1st (#25) and a swap that more than likely won't push. Richardson got traded for 4 2nds. White before the trade was a better player, younger, and locked in for 4 years.

Josh Hart went for #23

There really aren't a whole lot of similar players who went even a pick in the teens. Closest thing I can find it Marcus Smart, but he was definitely regarded higher than Caruso.

I like Caruso but offensively hes extremely limited, and he's not the missing piece for Sac.

Portland also got Reddish (have never been high on him but he was a flyer on a young guy with potential) and Thybulle in that deal too so it wasn't straight up for #23.

I also wouldn't really consider him extremely limited on offense. He shot 40% from three (38% career from three) and was efficient overall at 61.3% TS%. Of the guys who were a regular part of the rotation, only Sabonis, Keon and Len were more efficient than him. He's just not going to be a volume scorer but that's not the reason we would be trading for him. A 2+ AST/TO ratio too with a better AST% than Davion.

Again, I agree that I would rather use the #13 to upgrade the forward but I do think Caruso would make a huge impact on this team.

Given we resigned Monk, I'd say Caruso would have been only a slight upgrade over Davion & Ellis since we already have ~65 minutes covered at guard spots, with players better than him. It's not a good decision to give up 13 for a slight upgrade for a soon to be 31 years old & 20 millions per year player (more than Monk) with a questionable injury history, even though it is a fair trade value for Caruso. It's just not make sense for Kings.

I think he's a sizable upgrade to Davion and we would play a lot of three guard lineups, we already were doing that last year so I don't see why Fox-Monk-Caruso/Keon wouldn't see plenty of minutes together. I think it would have worked well for us but I still think the best course of action is to use 13 to upgrade the forward though I would have absolutely seen the justification for using it to acquire Caruso.

[codydaze]

Yeah, I don't understand the Lavine infatuation either. Is there a world, like Boogie mentioned, where we get Lavine and Kuzma? Just go all out on a no-defense, offensive barrage type team? Combining some ideas/rumors here:

Kings Out: Barnes, Huerter, Sasha, Davion, Duarte, #13, 2025 POR 2nd
Kings In: Lavine, Kuzma, #26

Washington Out: Kuzma, #26
Washington In: Barnes, Davion, #11, 2025 POR 2nd

Chicago Out: Lavine, #11
Chicago In: Huerter, Sasha, Duarte, #13

I would probably throw up in my mouth a little bit but we get a lower cost first round rookie contract and supercharge the offense.

Fox-Lavine-Keegan-Kuzma-Sabonis
Monk-Keon-#26-Lyles-Len

[Lost in LA]

That proposal would make us look like an inferior version of the 2024 Phoenix Suns. Plus there's only one ball to share among those 5 starters plus Monk, and the defense looks very light?