Free Agency

[Mr Peanut]

For posters who are not on board of the idea of acquiring a PF on a reasonable contract who averages 17/7/3 and can space the floor, what are your realistic alternatives?

The key word there being realistic. Keeping in mind that you are trying to lure players to come and play in Detroit, or trade for a player of equal or greater value than Tobias without losing a bunch of assets in a trade. Very interested to hear opinions on that.

I dont expect Harris to come here for a reasonable contract. I expect he would come here because we can pay him over fair market price.

I would much much rather just sin eat a bad contract and get paid assets then take on Tobias. The other option would be trading for a player that isnt dusty.

There's not a lot of other suitors lining up for him and we have a slight advantage with his wife being from here that we might not have to pay the usual Detroit tax, which means a 2 or 3 year contract in the 20-25M per year range is not out of the question. Some people will balk at those numbers but with the new salary cap which is ever increasing that is actually pretty fair value.

Also I can't really support the idea of calling a player "dusty" based on one bad playoff series, when the much larger sample size shows him to be someone who has had pretty consistent stats over the last several seasons. His game doesn't rely on athleticism so we shouldn't expect to see such a significant drop off in his play at age 32.

And the sin eating trades only make sense if the assets make them enticing enough. We're yet to know what could be on the table, and if it's only late firsts or second rounders then it probably doesn't outweigh the benefit of having a floor spacing vet with playoff experience to help complement our young core. There's also the potential that Tobias then becomes a trade chip himself that could bring back better assets than what we may have been able to extract from a salary dump this summer.

[7r5ur]

For posters who are not on board of the idea of acquiring a PF on a reasonable contract who averages 17/7/3 and can space the floor, what are your realistic alternatives?

The key word there being realistic. Keeping in mind that you are trying to lure players to come and play in Detroit, or trade for a player of equal or greater value than Tobias without losing a bunch of assets in a trade. Very interested to hear opinions on that.

I dont expect Harris to come here for a reasonable contract. I expect he would come here because we can pay him well over fair market price.

I would much much rather just sin eat a bad contract and get paid assets then take on Tobias. The other option would be trading for a player that isnt dusty.

Yeah it totally depends on what the contract looks like for Tobias (I'm obviously not giving him like 4 years/100M+ or some nonsense), as well as what assets we could get by absorbing a contract with that same money. I just don't see which contract is going to net us a substantial asset... That's my main issue here. I see some contracts that could maybe net a pick in the late 20's.

I'd feel more confident that if we could get Tobias here on a shorter term $20M-23M per year salary, he'd be able to fetch an asset in a trade in a year or so.

[buzzkilloton]

For posters who are not on board of the idea of acquiring a PF on a reasonable contract who averages 17/7/3 and can space the floor, what are your realistic alternatives?

The key word there being realistic. Keeping in mind that you are trying to lure players to come and play in Detroit, or trade for a player of equal or greater value than Tobias without losing a bunch of assets in a trade. Very interested to hear opinions on that.

There's not a lot of other suitors lining up for him and we have a slight advantage with his wife being from here that we might not have to pay the usual Detroit tax, which means a 2 or 3 year contract in the 20-25M per year range is not out of the question. Some people will balk at those numbers but with the new salary cap which is ever increasing that is actually pretty fair value.

Also I can't really support the idea of calling a player "dusty" based on one bad playoff series, when the much larger sample size shows him to be someone who has had pretty consistent stats over the last several seasons. His game doesn't rely on athleticism so we shouldn't expect to see such a significant drop off in his play at age 32.

And the sin eating trades only make sense if the assets make them enticing enough. We're yet to know what could be on the table, and if it's only late firsts or second rounders then it probably doesn't outweigh the benefit of having a floor spacing vet with playoff experience to help complement our young core. There's also the potential that Tobias then becomes a trade chip himself that could bring back better assets than what we may have been able to extract from a salary dump this summer.

Hes turning age 32 next season this is the age many players start their decline. He for sure looked dusty in that playoff series. So dusty we have a poster here creating locker room narratives to explain his terrible play.

I would rather sign a KCP at 20-25mill or Hartenstein.

[7r5ur]

There's not a lot of other suitors lining up for him and we have a slight advantage with his wife being from here that we might not have to pay the usual Detroit tax, which means a 2 or 3 year contract in the 20-25M per year range is not out of the question. Some people will balk at those numbers but with the new salary cap which is ever increasing that is actually pretty fair value.

Also I can't really support the idea of calling a player "dusty" based on one bad playoff series, when the much larger sample size shows him to be someone who has had pretty consistent stats over the last several seasons. His game doesn't rely on athleticism so we shouldn't expect to see such a significant drop off in his play at age 32.

And the sin eating trades only make sense if the assets make them enticing enough. We're yet to know what could be on the table, and if it's only late firsts or second rounders then it probably doesn't outweigh the benefit of having a floor spacing vet with playoff experience to help complement our young core. There's also the potential that Tobias then becomes a trade chip himself that could bring back better assets than what we may have been able to extract from a salary dump this summer.

Hes turning age 32 next season this is the age many players start their decline. He for sure looked dusty in that playoff series. So dusty we have a poster here creating locker room narratives to explain his terrible play.

I would rather sign a KCP or Hartenstein at 20-25mill any day of the week.

Bro KCP is the same age as Tobias! lol. He averaged 8ppg in the playoffs playing with Jokic!

Why are y'all allergic to bringing in a power forward on this damn team? Just more guards and bigs with no offense outside of 5 feet

[Mr Peanut]

There's not a lot of other suitors lining up for him and we have a slight advantage with his wife being from here that we might not have to pay the usual Detroit tax, which means a 2 or 3 year contract in the 20-25M per year range is not out of the question. Some people will balk at those numbers but with the new salary cap which is ever increasing that is actually pretty fair value.

Also I can't really support the idea of calling a player "dusty" based on one bad playoff series, when the much larger sample size shows him to be someone who has had pretty consistent stats over the last several seasons. His game doesn't rely on athleticism so we shouldn't expect to see such a significant drop off in his play at age 32.

And the sin eating trades only make sense if the assets make them enticing enough. We're yet to know what could be on the table, and if it's only late firsts or second rounders then it probably doesn't outweigh the benefit of having a floor spacing vet with playoff experience to help complement our young core. There's also the potential that Tobias then becomes a trade chip himself that could bring back better assets than what we may have been able to extract from a salary dump this summer.

Hes turning age 32 next season this is the age many players start their decline. He for sure looked dusty in that playoff series. So dusty we have a poster here creating locker room narratives to explain his terrible play.

I would rather sign a KCP or Hartenstein at 20-25mill any day of the week.

Circling back to the original post, are signing either of those guys realistic? KCP maybe at a stretch but that contract would be an overpay for his production (note that he also turns 32 next season) and he potentially has no interest in returning to a rebuilding Detroit after tasting a lot of success the last few seasons. Hartenstein seems pretty likely to stay in NY and doubtful that his pregnant model wife wants to move to Detroit for an extra few million per season.

[buzzkilloton]

There's not a lot of other suitors lining up for him and we have a slight advantage with his wife being from here that we might not have to pay the usual Detroit tax, which means a 2 or 3 year contract in the 20-25M per year range is not out of the question. Some people will balk at those numbers but with the new salary cap which is ever increasing that is actually pretty fair value.

Also I can't really support the idea of calling a player "dusty" based on one bad playoff series, when the much larger sample size shows him to be someone who has had pretty consistent stats over the last several seasons. His game doesn't rely on athleticism so we shouldn't expect to see such a significant drop off in his play at age 32.

And the sin eating trades only make sense if the assets make them enticing enough. We're yet to know what could be on the table, and if it's only late firsts or second rounders then it probably doesn't outweigh the benefit of having a floor spacing vet with playoff experience to help complement our young core. There's also the potential that Tobias then becomes a trade chip himself that could bring back better assets than what we may have been able to extract from a salary dump this summer.

Hes turning age 32 next season this is the age many players start their decline. He for sure looked dusty in that playoff series. So dusty we have a poster here creating locker room narratives to explain his terrible play.

I would rather sign a KCP or Hartenstein at 20-25mill any day of the week.

Circling back to the original post, are signing either of those guys realistic? KCP maybe at a stretch but that contract would be an overpay for his production (note that he also turns 32 next season) and he potentially has no interest in returning to a rebuilding Detroit after tasting a lot of success the last few seasons. Hartenstein seems pretty likely to stay in NY and doubtful that his pregnant model wife wants to move to Detroit for an extra few million per season.

I'm fully aware of KCPs age. KCP plays great defense. Hes a much better signing. I do agree with you though contenders will be interested in him so it will be tough to land him.

The Knicks cant afford Hartenstein. They need to pay OG they dont have the cap space. Also he hasnt landed a big contract yet millions more can matter on a first big contract.

[7r5ur]

Hes turning age 32 next season this is the age many players start their decline. He for sure looked dusty in that playoff series. So dusty we have a poster here creating locker room narratives to explain his terrible play.

I would rather sign a KCP or Hartenstein at 20-25mill any day of the week.

Circling back to the original post, are signing either of those guys realistic? KCP maybe at a stretch but that contract would be an overpay for his production (note that he also turns 32 next season) and he potentially has no interest in returning to a rebuilding Detroit after tasting a lot of success the last few seasons. Hartenstein seems pretty likely to stay in NY and doubtful that his pregnant model wife wants to move to Detroit for an extra few million per season.

I'm fully aware of KCPs age. KCP plays great defense. Hes a much better signing. I do agree with you though contenders will be interested in him so it will be tough to land him.

The Knicks cant afford Hartenstein. They need to pay OG they dont have the cap space. Also he hasnt landed a big contract yet millions more can matter on a first big contract.

We have lots of guards and a high pick in a guard heavy draft. We need a power forward in the worst possible way. One that can create some offense with the ball in his hands. KCP has none of those things. KCP fills the same role as Grimes. Defensively very good, offensively limited. Same level of "dust" as Tobias lol.

I get it, it's easy to fall into this NBA-internet meme culture that thinks Tobias Harris is the worst player in the league because Philly was paying him $40M/year and it's fun to pile on or whatever, but that's totally irrelevant to this team.

And of course, as a side note, KCP would have to want to return, which I highly doubt. Only reason Tobias would consider is because his wife is from here. Seems like KCP getting spoon-fed by Jokic is a pretty good spot for him.

[buzzkilloton]

There's not a lot of other suitors lining up for him and we have a slight advantage with his wife being from here that we might not have to pay the usual Detroit tax, which means a 2 or 3 year contract in the 20-25M per year range is not out of the question. Some people will balk at those numbers but with the new salary cap which is ever increasing that is actually pretty fair value.

Also I can't really support the idea of calling a player "dusty" based on one bad playoff series, when the much larger sample size shows him to be someone who has had pretty consistent stats over the last several seasons. His game doesn't rely on athleticism so we shouldn't expect to see such a significant drop off in his play at age 32.

And the sin eating trades only make sense if the assets make them enticing enough. We're yet to know what could be on the table, and if it's only late firsts or second rounders then it probably doesn't outweigh the benefit of having a floor spacing vet with playoff experience to help complement our young core. There's also the potential that Tobias then becomes a trade chip himself that could bring back better assets than what we may have been able to extract from a salary dump this summer.

Hes turning age 32 next season this is the age many players start their decline. He for sure looked dusty in that playoff series. So dusty we have a poster here creating locker room narratives to explain his terrible play.

I would rather sign a KCP or Hartenstein at 20-25mill any day of the week.

Bro KCP is the same age as Tobias! lol. He averaged 8ppg in the playoffs playing with Jokic!

Why are y'all allergic to bringing in a power forward on this damn team? Just more guards and bigs with no offense outside of 5 feet

Tobias turns 32 next month. KCP turns 32 in Feb. KCP didnt look dusty during the post season Harris did.

I'm not sure what the point is when you say "KCP scored 8ppg in the playoffs". KCP has averaged 10 ppg the past two seasons hes never scored more then 14 in a season. Hes a 3+D player we sign him for defense not offense.

OFC unlike Tobias KCP will have alot of teams in the market for him. Thats because hes a much better signing.

[buzzkilloton]

Circling back to the original post, are signing either of those guys realistic? KCP maybe at a stretch but that contract would be an overpay for his production (note that he also turns 32 next season) and he potentially has no interest in returning to a rebuilding Detroit after tasting a lot of success the last few seasons. Hartenstein seems pretty likely to stay in NY and doubtful that his pregnant model wife wants to move to Detroit for an extra few million per season.

I'm fully aware of KCPs age. KCP plays great defense. Hes a much better signing. I do agree with you though contenders will be interested in him so it will be tough to land him.

The Knicks cant afford Hartenstein. They need to pay OG they dont have the cap space. Also he hasnt landed a big contract yet millions more can matter on a first big contract.

We have lots of guards and a high pick in a guard heavy draft. We need a power forward in the worst possible way. One that can create some offense with the ball in his hands. KCP has none of those things. KCP fills the same role as Grimes. Defensively very good, offensively limited. Same level of "dust" as Tobias lol.

I get it, it's easy to fall into this NBA-internet meme culture that thinks Tobias Harris is the worst player in the league because Philly was paying him $40M/year and it's fun to pile on or whatever, but that's totally irrelevant to this team.

And of course, as a side note, KCP would have to want to return, which I highly doubt. Only reason Tobias would consider is because his wife is from here. Seems like KCP getting spoon-fed by Jokic is a pretty good spot for him.

Not wanting Tobias has nothing to do with "meme culture". It has everything to do with watching him play. I havent even seen a Tobias meme but sometimes memes are created with some truth in them.

I'm not avoiding signing players because of Grimes thats for sure. Grimes very well could be one of those injury prone players who cant stay healthy. Grimes was awful last season thats for sure. Hes also not under contract after next season.

OFC it would be great to have two strong 3+D players as their always valuable on your team and on the trade market to other teams.

[A_dub06]

We need a power forward = Miles Bridges. younger than most and probably won’t cost too much. Plus his shot is already decent and with Vinson here maybe he can grow that even further

[7r5ur]

We need a power forward = Miles Bridges. younger than most and probably won’t cost too much. Plus his shot is already decent and with Vinson here maybe he can grow that even further

No shot Langdon does this big press conference talking about high character guys and then makes Miles Bridges his first big move, IMO.

Gotta look at who is available outside of Bridges that is a PF...

Tobias Harris
Obi Toppin
.....
Patrick Williams?
Kyle Anderson??

It gets rough pretty rough pretty quick. Obi has never played more than 21.1mpg and can't create his own shot at all. Patrick Williams will almost certainly get matched unless it's a really bad contract.

Tobias is basically the only real free agent option. Otherwise, it'll probably have to be a trade.

[buzzkilloton]

We need a power forward = Miles Bridges. younger than most and probably won’t cost too much. Plus his shot is already decent and with Vinson here maybe he can grow that even further

Yeah I'm 100% with you on Bridges that would be a great pick up. He also has a home town connection to us. I've heard he wants to stay in Cha though so I'm kinda assuming thats where he stays.

Signing him would depend on if he was even on the market and if Langdon forsees him as a guy who could change. I know what others are saying about him saying "going after high character players" thing. The thing is nearly every GM and coach in every sport always says this kind of stuff. Nobody says "were looking to add talent regardless of what they do off the court".

[7r5ur]

I'm fully aware of KCPs age. KCP plays great defense. Hes a much better signing. I do agree with you though contenders will be interested in him so it will be tough to land him.

The Knicks cant afford Hartenstein. They need to pay OG they dont have the cap space. Also he hasnt landed a big contract yet millions more can matter on a first big contract.

We have lots of guards and a high pick in a guard heavy draft. We need a power forward in the worst possible way. One that can create some offense with the ball in his hands. KCP has none of those things. KCP fills the same role as Grimes. Defensively very good, offensively limited. Same level of "dust" as Tobias lol.

I get it, it's easy to fall into this NBA-internet meme culture that thinks Tobias Harris is the worst player in the league because Philly was paying him $40M/year and it's fun to pile on or whatever, but that's totally irrelevant to this team.

And of course, as a side note, KCP would have to want to return, which I highly doubt. Only reason Tobias would consider is because his wife is from here. Seems like KCP getting spoon-fed by Jokic is a pretty good spot for him.

Not wanting Tobias has nothing to do with "meme culture". It has everything to do with watching him play. I havent even seen a Tobias meme but sometimes memes are created with some truth in them.

I'm not avoiding signing players because of Grimes thats for sure. Grimes very well could be one of those injury prone players who cant stay healthy. Grimes was awful last season thats for sure. Hes also not under contract after next season.

OFC it would be great to have two strong 3+D players as their always valuable on your team and on the trade market to other teams.

It is, it's totally "vibes" based. You hear casual tolls online repeating that he's some trash non-NBA player over and over just because he was making $40M/year and it becomes truth in your mind. At a different scale, we saw it over the years with Tatum too. The internet went so hard at him that he somehow became underrated.

And having one bad 6 game series doesn't mean you throw away his entire regular season. It makes it a good time to buy low while that's fresh in people's memories.

Even if you really want to throw a bag at KCP (enough to lure him away from Denver and Orlando, who have a real need for him), this team still needs a PF most of all! This is indisputable. Unless you really love Stewart starting out of position at the 4. Meanwhile, we've got 4 guards under contract on this team that are best suited to play SG. Seems better to spend money elsewhere.

And in one way you're right. KCP will have suitors. Largely because the teams with cap space need guards and not forwards. Orlando being our primary competition and being stacked with forwards makes Tobias more gettable for a good price than any guard on the market.

Would also be nice to get someone that can create their own shot, which Tobias can and KCP absolutely cannot. That's the difference here. KCP without Jokic spoon-feeding him declines when he gets to Detroit. Tobias who gets about half of his offense on his own would have inflated opportunities and inflated stats here.

[MotownMadness]

We're not gonna be playing in any meaningful playoff games with him. There's really not much more out there in FA besides the little under the radar deals.

Sign him to like a 2 year deal and let him just avg around 18ppg at the 4 for the time being.

[buzzkilloton]

We have lots of guards and a high pick in a guard heavy draft. We need a power forward in the worst possible way. One that can create some offense with the ball in his hands. KCP has none of those things. KCP fills the same role as Grimes. Defensively very good, offensively limited. Same level of "dust" as Tobias lol.

I get it, it's easy to fall into this NBA-internet meme culture that thinks Tobias Harris is the worst player in the league because Philly was paying him $40M/year and it's fun to pile on or whatever, but that's totally irrelevant to this team.

And of course, as a side note, KCP would have to want to return, which I highly doubt. Only reason Tobias would consider is because his wife is from here. Seems like KCP getting spoon-fed by Jokic is a pretty good spot for him.

Not wanting Tobias has nothing to do with "meme culture". It has everything to do with watching him play. I havent even seen a Tobias meme but sometimes memes are created with some truth in them.

I'm not avoiding signing players because of Grimes thats for sure. Grimes very well could be one of those injury prone players who cant stay healthy. Grimes was awful last season thats for sure. Hes also not under contract after next season.

OFC it would be great to have two strong 3+D players as their always valuable on your team and on the trade market to other teams.

It is, it's totally "vibes" based. You hear casual tolls online repeating that he's some trash non-NBA player over and over just because he was making $40M/year and it becomes truth in your mind. At a different scale, we saw it over the years with Tatum too. The internet went so hard at him that he somehow became underrated.

And having one bad 6 game series doesn't mean you throw away his entire regular season. It makes it a good time to buy low while that's fresh in people's memories.

Even if you really want to throw a bag at KCP (enough to lure him away from Denver and Orlando, who have a real need for him), this team still needs a PF most of all! This is indisputable. Unless you really love Stewart starting out of position at the 4. I'd rather shift Stewart to the 5 and start Tobias any day. We've got 5 guards under contract on this team and they're all best suited to play SG.

Would also be nice to get someone that can create their own shot, which Tobias can and KCP absolutely cannot. That's the difference here. KCP without Jokic spoon-feeding him declines when he gets to Detroit. Tobias who gets about half of his offense on his own would have inflated opportunities and inflated stats here.

I'm really not super excited to "throw the bag at KCP" either. As I mentioned in my first post my first options would be "sin eating a bad contract for assets or trading for a player". I mentioned Hartenstein and KCP as just two options that popped in my head that I would prefer. If I looked at the FA list I would likely name another 5-10 guys I prefer over Harris as well.

Nothing anyone says is going to convince me that Tobias is a good signing barring him taking a below market deal to play in Detroit. I just dont buy Tobias is going to come here for a fair market deal due to a family connection. I think hes going to come here because we are bad and will overpay him.

[MotownMadness]

It all depends on the contract for me

Once you start going over $20 mil per or over 2 years in length it starts to get sketchy

I'd offer him a 2/40 deal or tell him to go elsewhere

[Billl]

We need a power forward = Miles Bridges. younger than most and probably won’t cost too much. Plus his shot is already decent and with Vinson here maybe he can grow that even further

Miles is resigning in CLT barring a major overpay - think north of $30 mil/yr. They didn't go through all the bad press for the last 2 years just to let the guy walk.

[buzzkilloton]

It all depends on the contract for me

Once you start going over $20 mil per or over 2 years in length it starts to get sketchy

Yeah if hes going to come here for a short term 20mill per year contract then whatever I'm not going to complain I would just /shrug. My thinking is hes looking to either get his last chance at cashing in to the max or he is looking to go somewhere else and take a discount to win in the playoffs. It sounds like we may see in due time what type of contract is coming.

[MotownMadness]

It all depends on the contract for me

Once you start going over $20 mil per or over 2 years in length it starts to get sketchy

Yeah if hes going to come here for a short term 20mill per year contract then whatever I'm not going to complain I would just /shrug. My thinking is hes looking to either get his last chance at cashing in to the max or he is looking to go somewhere else and take a discount to win in the playoffs. It sounds like we may see in due time what type of contract is coming.

Hopefully Langdon would be cautious of over paying him (mostly in years committed)

Could be a bad early sign if he lets Tobias run us in FA

[7r5ur]

Not wanting Tobias has nothing to do with "meme culture". It has everything to do with watching him play. I havent even seen a Tobias meme but sometimes memes are created with some truth in them.

I'm not avoiding signing players because of Grimes thats for sure. Grimes very well could be one of those injury prone players who cant stay healthy. Grimes was awful last season thats for sure. Hes also not under contract after next season.

OFC it would be great to have two strong 3+D players as their always valuable on your team and on the trade market to other teams.

It is, it's totally "vibes" based. You hear casual tolls online repeating that he's some trash non-NBA player over and over just because he was making $40M/year and it becomes truth in your mind. At a different scale, we saw it over the years with Tatum too. The internet went so hard at him that he somehow became underrated.

And having one bad 6 game series doesn't mean you throw away his entire regular season. It makes it a good time to buy low while that's fresh in people's memories.

Even if you really want to throw a bag at KCP (enough to lure him away from Denver and Orlando, who have a real need for him), this team still needs a PF most of all! This is indisputable. Unless you really love Stewart starting out of position at the 4. I'd rather shift Stewart to the 5 and start Tobias any day. We've got 5 guards under contract on this team and they're all best suited to play SG.

Would also be nice to get someone that can create their own shot, which Tobias can and KCP absolutely cannot. That's the difference here. KCP without Jokic spoon-feeding him declines when he gets to Detroit. Tobias who gets about half of his offense on his own would have inflated opportunities and inflated stats here.

I'm really not super excited to "throw the bag at KCP" either. As I mentioned in my first post my first options would be "sin eating a bad contract for assets or trading for a player". I mentioned Hartenstein and KCP as just two options that popped in my head that I would prefer. If I looked at the FA list I would likely name another 5-10 guys I prefer over Harris as well.

Nothing anyone says is going to convince me that Tobias is a good signing barring him taking a below market deal to play in Detroit. I just dont buy Tobias is going to come here for a fair market deal due to a family connection. I think hes going to come here because we are bad and will overpay him.

The things that could get him to come here for cheaper than the other free agents in his tier are:

1. His relationship soured in Philly. 1 team with cap space off the board.
2. Orlando is stacked with forwards and has other needs to fill. 2 teams with major cap space off the board.
3. Utah is stacked with forwards, so it seems like an unlikely destination. Another team with major cap space.
4. OKC has a crazy amount of picks to offer and could do better than Tobias in the trade market.
5. Pistons have a guaranteed starting spot.
6. He has real connections in Detroit.

And I still would like to see which contracts teams will be attaching notable assets to in order to get off of... I'm definitely down for that, but I just don't know what is realistically going to be available, nor do I think signing Tobias would prevent that from happening unless we're bringing in some truly massive deals to fill that $64M cap space.