Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Darvin Returns

[bdpecore]

The reason to trade Middleton for most of us isn't to mitigate Injury risk. It's because he's our best trade asset for a team that desperately needs to get serious about it's defensive capabilities. We have top end offensive players.

"We have Brook, Bobby, Pat, 23 and 33 to move". Ok, and if that doesn't get us anywhere, what then?

Then you make marginal changes to the roster to hopefully improve our overall team defense, look for upgrades at the trade deadline and hope Giannis, Dame and Khris are all healthy for the playoffs.

[Dick Tate]

Only four more months of Middleton talk until the regular season starts

[ReasonablySober]

Middleton only offers offense at this point in his career, and that offense is not needed when you have Dame and Giannis. If you think that Khris and Dame, or Khris and Giannis can still win a title with what little the Bucks can put around them then sure keep Khris. But I can't imagine anyone believing that.

[Profound23]

Only four more months of Middleton talk until the regular season starts

Or one more day if they trade him on draft night.

But we both know no matter what happens, we will be talking Middleton in a week and again in 5 months.

Except then it will all be hindsight and every mention of a potential trade for a player will be "well yeah, you can now say that in hindsight."

[M-C-G]

If Dame and Giannis are healthy, which is the only way the Bucks are winning the title, then the Bucks simply don’t need Khris’s 15 points a game at $30-plus million a year. If he opts out, and I think he does, he’ll be even more expensive. The Bucks can more smartly allocate those resources, preferably towards youth and defense.

I love Khris, but it’s time for him to go.

He averaged 20 points per 36 this year at .595 TS. That's with a 6-week layoff mid-season. Even with a healthy Dame and GA he's an efficient 20 ppg guy in the playoffs.

You win in the NBA playoffs with offensive depth and versatility now. Having a top third option is a must. I would much rather try and slightly improve on last year's 6th best O rating just by Dame working out this summer and more injury luck, and use other assets and offseason development to improve the 19th ranked D to hopefully 10-12 range. I have yet to see a realistic Middleton proposal that puts us closer to a title on this forum.

Khris is not averaging 20 ppg next to a healthy Dame and a healthy Giannis. He could do so if one or both of them are out with injuries, but then the Bucks aren't winning a title and it doesn't matter what Khris scores.

What if Midds is moved to a high usage 6th man role? If we sat Giannis and Dame together more and then construct a second unit around Midds, I could see this team absolutely cooking. Then come playoff time, you can play them more together with Midds sliding back into more of a 3rd man role, which he is more than capable of.

[bdpecore]

If Dame and Giannis are healthy, which is the only way the Bucks are winning the title, then the Bucks simply don’t need Khris’s 15 points a game at $30-plus million a year. If he opts out, and I think he does, he’ll be even more expensive. The Bucks can more smartly allocate those resources, preferably towards youth and defense.

I love Khris, but it’s time for him to go.

I honestly don’t think if Khris opts out, it will be to increase his AVV. It will be to secure more guaranteed $$$. Opting out of $34MM to sign a 3yr/$75MM or 4yr$90MM deal is simply a smart move.

[MiltownMadness]

Exactly, the Bucks don't need Khris Middleton to be a top 5-10 offense.

But they do need quite a few changes to have the personnel capable of being a top 5 defense. He seems to be our best chance at landing that.

Dame and GA both only missed 9 games this year and they finished 6th in O rating. If Middleton played 0 instead of 55 games, where would they have been? They absolutely need Middleton to be a top 5 offense.

I think it's easier to improve around the margins and with another full season of Dame/coaching staff integration than it is to trade Middleton for multiple decent pieces and maintain the O while drastically improving the D.

You're not factoring in what we receive for Middleton and additional personnel moves. The Bucks can build a very efficient offense capable of wining a championship around those two.

This roster is not a guy at the 2 spot who can slide their feet away from winning a championship. Not in my opinion at least.

We see this repeated ad nauseam, but the truth is last year was a disaster and its hard to analyze the teams ceiling. I know those 3 can win a title together, far less talented trios have. If you just look at the disaster that was last year I could see why you would think differently, but why do that in an honest argument? Its not honest

[Frank Nova]

1st trade

Bucks out - Brook Lopez

Bucks in - Marcus Smart and Vince Williams

2nd trade

Bucks out - Pat Connaughton and a future 2nd

Bucks in - Nick Richards

Dame/Smart/Khris/Giannis/Richards
Bev/Vince/Jackson Jr/Bobby
Green/Beauchamp/Livingston/Tyty/23/33

[buckboy]

I like how you slipped "while losing to #6 seed" in there.

I slipped that in there because the Pacers were actually a #6 seed.

And how is that relevant?

Was it Khris' fault?

[RRyder823]

Lol it's funny to see people intentionally misunderstand the point. No one is disrespecting Middleton. Again, He is our BEST TRADE asset for a reason.

The Bucks are a middling, at best, defensive team. Middling defensive teams don't win championships. Trading Middleton while his value is high is our best chance to land multiple players that can extend the window. There is no window if you can't improve defensively.

You sure about that?

Why do people always do this? "No one is saying what you guys are arguing."

Scrolls up 4 posts.....

I hate Middleton and think he sucks.

Yet I am on here right now arguing we could get really good value for him this off season.

Some of you guys are hilarious.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[bdpecore]

"We have Brook, Bobby, Pat, 23 and 33 to move". Ok, and if that doesn't get us anywhere, what then?

That's where I'm at. I'm not sure Pat +23 and 33 for Dorian Finney Smith moves the needle. Assuming they'd make that deal.

What is going to move the needle more than any trade or signing this offseason will be having our big three healthy for the playoffs. Do people actually think we would’ve lost to the Pacers or even the Knicks if Giannis and Dame were both healthy?

For starters, Siakim wouldn’t have had nearly as much success against the Bucks if Giannis was guarding him. Then if you give Crowder, Connaughton and Beasley’s mintues to Giannis this series would have been quite different.

[buckboy]

I would rather have 3 meh players that can actually be counted on to suit up on a regular basis, not miss 4 weeks every time they fall down and physically capable of playing B2Bs.

Than the 2025 version of Khris Middleton.

Three healthy meh players aren't taking you anyplace significant, and you don't need to trade Khris Middleton to get them. Honestly, who cares about back to backs? They don't have them in the playoffs. We shouldn't be playing anybody important on back to backs.

The healthy meh/rotation players are making a huge difference on the margins if your two best players are Giannis & Dame.

Obviously, I am not saying just give Khris away, but if you can get multiple solid, dependable rotation players for him. I am doing that. It's an easy choice.

Khris being physically incapable of playing B2Bs is a huge deal. It's more about his overall limitations than it is Oh no, Khris can't play against Detroit tonight on this random Tuesday in January.

I like Khris, I really do. But relying on him as your #3 guy at this point in his career if you're trying to win a championship is setting yourself up for more failure and disappointment.

So you didn't watch the playoffs.

[SirChurros]

Dame, Giannis and Khris was the third best 3-man lineup for net rating of guys who played > 500 minutes. But sure, can’t have those guys on the floor together!

[buckboy]

The reason to trade Middleton for most of us isn't to mitigate Injury risk. It's because he's our best trade asset for a team that desperately needs to get serious about it's defensive capabilities. We have top end offensive players.

"We have Brook, Bobby, Pat, 23 and 33 to move". Ok, and if that doesn't get us anywhere, what then?

Which is fine. But it better be for something better than 3 meh dudes and #13.

[Ron Swanson]

Middleton only offers offense at this point in his career, and that offense is not needed when you have Dame and Giannis. If you think that Khris and Dame, or Khris and Giannis can still win a title with what little the Bucks can put around them then sure keep Khris. But I can't imagine anyone believing that.

Weren’t you the guy that just said a couple weeks ago that the team didn’t really need to do much besides get a couple role players around Dame/Khris/Giannis/Brook and we were gonna juggernaut through the regular season assuming good health?

[buckboy]

1st trade

Bucks out - Brook Lopez

Bucks in - Marcus Smart and Vince Williams

2nd trade

Bucks out - Pat Connaughton and a future 2nd

Bucks in - Nick Richards

Dame/Smart/Khris/Giannis/Richards
Bev/Vince/Jackson Jr/Bobby
Green/Beauchamp/Livingston/Tyty/23/33

I'd rather keep Brook than make that deal.

Love the 2nd one and would hope to trade Brook to Houston or OKC.

[giannis and 1]

Feels like the Bucks this off-season are at a crossroads.

Try to win another championship with Giannis.

Or

Don't be mean to guys like Khris Middleton, Brook & Pat ect and let them continue to rot on our roster because they helped us win a championship 3 years ago.

Putting Middleton in the same category as Lopez and Connaughton is hilarious. And as has been stated by others, there’s no realistic trade where we get better after trading him.

[machu46]

I do think there’s an argument to be made that with the new CBA, it’s a lot more difficult to build around 3 very highly priced guys than it used to be and we could be better off with just two of those pieces. I just don’t think the proposals that people are bringing to the table are generally enough. There’s been a couple recently that I would be interested in (like that Kings one that included #13; definitely not interested without that pick, but I don’t see the Kings targeting him anyways).

I also tend to think Middleton fits pretty beautifully with Giannis and Dame so I’m in no rush to move on from him unless it’s a strong offer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[giannis and 1]

Exactly, the Bucks don't need Khris Middleton to be a top 5-10 offense.

But they do need quite a few changes to have the personnel capable of being a top 5 defense. He seems to be our best chance at landing that.

Dame and GA both only missed 9 games this year and they finished 6th in O rating. If Middleton played 0 instead of 55 games, where would they have been? They absolutely need Middleton to be a top 5 offense.

I think it's easier to improve around the margins and with another full season of Dame/coaching staff integration than it is to trade Middleton for multiple decent pieces and maintain the O while drastically improving the D.

This roster is not a guy at the 2 spot who can slide their feet away from winning a championship. Not in my opinion at least.

Disagree.

[bdpecore]

I would rather have 3 meh players that can actually be counted on to suit up on a regular basis, not miss 4 weeks every time they fall down and physically capable of playing B2Bs.

Than the 2025 version of Khris Middleton.

Three healthy meh players aren't taking you anyplace significant, and you don't need to trade Khris Middleton to get them. Honestly, who cares about back to backs? They don't have them in the playoffs. We shouldn't be playing anybody important on back to backs.

The healthy meh/rotation players are making a huge difference on the margins if your two best players are Giannis & Dame.

Obviously, I am not saying just give Khris away, but if you can get multiple solid, dependable rotation players for him. I am doing that. It's an easy choice.

Khris being physically incapable of playing B2Bs is a huge deal. It's more about his overall limitations than it is Oh no, Khris can't play against Detroit tonight on this random Tuesday in January.

I like Khris, I really do. But relying on him as your #3 guy at this point in his career if you're trying to win a championship is setting yourself up for more failure and disappointment.

LeBron, AD, Kawhi, PG13, Durant and Butler are all rested on B2Bs from time to time and especially when they aren’t 100% like Middleton was for most of the year. But as another poster already said, you don’t have B2Bs in the playoffs so your argument is moot.