Cavs become a championship contender Cavs/Pelicans/Heat

[jbk1234]

Holding things together defensively is Mobley's theme. But doing so against the Magic is not much to go on.

Mobley will not be more than the 3rd option with Mitchell/Garland playing together. The other 2 are just simply much better offensively.

I just do not see him as a better center (today) than Allen. Just like I don't see Allen as a better PF than Mobley. Fans love the one they have.

I would be equally acceptable if Cleveland traded Garland to Washington for #3 and Avdija. The defense would soar, but there would need to be a move for another offensive player to support Mitchell.

Mitchell/Okoro/Avdija/Mobley/Allen plus whoever at #2 - Sarr/Risacher/Castle/Clingan.

The Cavs are not going to trade Mobley. He's 22 and the plan when they drafted was to build as though he'd be fully developed at around 26. You asked why. I offered an explanation. Fans can be impatient, front offices should not.

[jbk1234]

Does Mobley really have upside in Cleveland though? He seems like a nice 17 and 10 PF with great defense but limited offense. Can the Cavs really afford to pay someone the max that is a fringe all-star?

I think Mobley can justify that max contract as a center, but I don't see the offensive game for him to ever break out as a PF. If the Cavalier organization still thinks he can't play the 5 in year 4, it might be best to look elsewhere.

I think we hired Atkinson for a reason. A rookie max is only 25% of the cap. Allen is only under contract for two more seasons. I get giving Atkinson a season to see what he can do, and Mobley another year to add bulk to his frame. The reality is that, absent us getting to the Finals next postseason, Allen is getting traded if he doesn't extend next summer anyway.

The other reality is that the Cavs are pretty thin in the frontcourt after Allen and Mobley. We would've finished with a very different record if we only had one of them the last two seasons due to one of them being injured. There will be an opportunity to stagger minutes even more this season and the Cavs should use it.

Personally, I'd explore doing what the Sixers are doing with Maxey and exploiting his cap hold until the last possible minute so we could use the full MLE next summer. The Cavs may believe it's not worth the risk.

Atkinson isn't going to magically make Mobley a perimeter player, and that is what Mobley would need to become if we want him to be a 1st or 2nd option playing next to Jarrett Allen. I think we have to be comfortable with Mobley being a 17 and 10 3rd/4th option type as long as he is playing next to Allen.

First off, having an elite defender at PF who puts up 17/10 is nothing to sneeze at. Second, he's only 22 and the plan when the front office drafted him was not that he'd be fully developed until 26.

[Presser]

Holding things together defensively is Mobley's theme. But doing so against the Magic is not much to go on.

Mobley will not be more than the 3rd option with Mitchell/Garland playing together. The other 2 are just simply much better offensively.

I just do not see him as a better center (today) than Allen. Just like I don't see Allen as a better PF than Mobley. Fans love the one they have.

I would be equally acceptable if Cleveland traded Garland to Washington for #3 and Avdija. The defense would soar, but there would need to be a move for another offensive player to support Mitchell.

Mitchell/Okoro/Avdija/Mobley/Allen plus whoever at #2 - Sarr/Risacher/Castle/Clingan.

The Cavs are not going to trade Mobley. He's 22 and the plan when they drafted was to build as though he'd be fully developed at around 26. You asked why. I offered an explanation. Fans can be impatient, front offices should not.

Cavs need to decide if their focus is developing Mobley or competing for a title. You’re extending Mitchell with the idea of wining now. Trading Allen and betting it all on mobley is very risky. And if you go into the year betting on mobley to be your second scorer that’s another huge gamble.

[jbk1234]

Holding things together defensively is Mobley's theme. But doing so against the Magic is not much to go on.

Mobley will not be more than the 3rd option with Mitchell/Garland playing together. The other 2 are just simply much better offensively.

I just do not see him as a better center (today) than Allen. Just like I don't see Allen as a better PF than Mobley. Fans love the one they have.

I would be equally acceptable if Cleveland traded Garland to Washington for #3 and Avdija. The defense would soar, but there would need to be a move for another offensive player to support Mitchell.

Mitchell/Okoro/Avdija/Mobley/Allen plus whoever at #2 - Sarr/Risacher/Castle/Clingan.

The Cavs are not going to trade Mobley. He's 22 and the plan when they drafted was to build as though he'd be fully developed at around 26. You asked why. I offered an explanation. Fans can be impatient, front offices should not.

Cavs need to decide if their focus is developing Mobley or competing for a title. You’re extending Mitchell with the idea of wining now. Trading Allen and betting it all on mobley is very risky. And if you go into the year betting on mobley to be your second scorer that’s another huge gamble.

Not really. The Cavs can stagger Allen/Mitchell, and Mobley/Garland quite a bit. There's an offseason and an 82-game season. Plenty of opportunities for development and winning.

[DowJones]

I think we hired Atkinson for a reason. A rookie max is only 25% of the cap. Allen is only under contract for two more seasons. I get giving Atkinson a season to see what he can do, and Mobley another year to add bulk to his frame. The reality is that, absent us getting to the Finals next postseason, Allen is getting traded if he doesn't extend next summer anyway.

The other reality is that the Cavs are pretty thin in the frontcourt after Allen and Mobley. We would've finished with a very different record if we only had one of them the last two seasons due to one of them being injured. There will be an opportunity to stagger minutes even more this season and the Cavs should use it.

Personally, I'd explore doing what the Sixers are doing with Maxey and exploiting his cap hold until the last possible minute so we could use the full MLE next summer. The Cavs may believe it's not worth the risk.

Atkinson isn't going to magically make Mobley a perimeter player, and that is what Mobley would need to become if we want him to be a 1st or 2nd option playing next to Jarrett Allen. I think we have to be comfortable with Mobley being a 17 and 10 3rd/4th option type as long as he is playing next to Allen.

First off, having an elite defender at PF who puts up 17/10 is nothing to sneeze at. Second, he's only 22 and the plan when the front office drafted him was not that he'd be fully developed until 26.

Mobley doesn't have the talent to be a 1st or 2nd option perimeter player. It isn't about waiting another 4 years to see what happens in his development. Mobley was always projected as a 5. I maintain that he is ready to be a full-time 5. Playing him at the 4 allows us to do the easy thing and keep Allen, but it does make Evan Mobley a less valuable player. It is easier to get away with an offensively limited 4 when he is on a rookie contract, but it is more painful when he is making the max.

[jbk1234]

Atkinson isn't going to magically make Mobley a perimeter player, and that is what Mobley would need to become if we want him to be a 1st or 2nd option playing next to Jarrett Allen. I think we have to be comfortable with Mobley being a 17 and 10 3rd/4th option type as long as he is playing next to Allen.

First off, having an elite defender at PF who puts up 17/10 is nothing to sneeze at. Second, he's only 22 and the plan when the front office drafted him was not that he'd be fully developed until 26.

Mobley doesn't have the talent to be a 1st or 2nd option perimeter player. It isn't about waiting another 4 years to see what happens in his development. Mobley was always projected as a 5. I maintain that he is ready to be a full-time 5. Playing him at the 4 allows us to do the easy thing and keep Allen, but it does make Evan Mobley a less valuable player. It is easier to get away with an offensively limited 4 when he is on a rookie contract, but it is more painful when he is making the max.

Well, he's got a year left on his rookie deal, and if the Cavs don't get to the conference finals next season, they probably have a decision to make at that point. However, the road in East probably runs through Boston for the next couple years anyway, and I'm not convinced a team with a more conventional lineup has a better chance at beating them than the Cavs as currently constructed. I'm not going to hammer them for running it back under a new coach and hoping for better health.

[louc1970]

Holding things together defensively is Mobley's theme. But doing so against the Magic is not much to go on.

Mobley will not be more than the 3rd option with Mitchell/Garland playing together. The other 2 are just simply much better offensively.

I just do not see him as a better center (today) than Allen. Just like I don't see Allen as a better PF than Mobley. Fans love the one they have.

I would be equally acceptable if Cleveland traded Garland to Washington for #3 and Avdija. The defense would soar, but there would need to be a move for another offensive player to support Mitchell.

Mitchell/Okoro/Avdija/Mobley/Allen plus whoever at #2 - Sarr/Risacher/Castle/Clingan.

The Cavs are not going to trade Mobley. He's 22 and the plan when they drafted was to build as though he'd be fully developed at around 26. You asked why. I offered an explanation. Fans can be impatient, front offices should not.

Everyone knows they are not. This is a discussion of the proposed trade.
Still I have yet to understand why posters say “Team X is not trading Player Y”. No team ever came on this board and thought “That is a good idea “ and went out and made the offer.
The craziest response from any ouster is “They want do it”.

[louc1970]

Holding things together defensively is Mobley's theme. But doing so against the Magic is not much to go on.

Mobley will not be more than the 3rd option with Mitchell/Garland playing together. The other 2 are just simply much better offensively.

I just do not see him as a better center (today) than Allen. Just like I don't see Allen as a better PF than Mobley. Fans love the one they have.

I would be equally acceptable if Cleveland traded Garland to Washington for #3 and Avdija. The defense would soar, but there would need to be a move for another offensive player to support Mitchell.

Mitchell/Okoro/Avdija/Mobley/Allen plus whoever at #2 - Sarr/Risacher/Castle/Clingan.

The Cavs are not going to trade Mobley. He's 22 and the plan when they drafted was to build as though he'd be fully developed at around 26. You asked why. I offered an explanation. Fans can be impatient, front offices should not.

But if you truly believe Cleveland is priming for when Mobley turns 26, they should trade Mitchell for younger players with crazy upside.
By the time Mobley is “ready”, Mitchell will be 31/32. Unless he can become a full time PG, he is going to be declining with the pounding he takes/gives.

[louc1970]

First off, having an elite defender at PF who puts up 17/10 is nothing to sneeze at. Second, he's only 22 and the plan when the front office drafted him was not that he'd be fully developed until 26.

Mobley doesn't have the talent to be a 1st or 2nd option perimeter player. It isn't about waiting another 4 years to see what happens in his development. Mobley was always projected as a 5. I maintain that he is ready to be a full-time 5. Playing him at the 4 allows us to do the easy thing and keep Allen, but it does make Evan Mobley a less valuable player. It is easier to get away with an offensively limited 4 when he is on a rookie contract, but it is more painful when he is making the max.

Well, he's got a year left on his rookie deal, and if the Cavs don't get to the conference finals next season, they probably have a decision to make at that point. However, the road in East probably runs through Boston for the next couple years anyway, and I'm not convinced a team with a more conventional lineup has a better chance at beating them than the Cavs as currently constructed. I'm not going to hammer them for running it back under a new coach and hoping for better health.

The Cavs when healthy have a shot at the Celtics. It boils down to Cavs defensive front court vs the Celtics offensive front court. And vice versa for the backcourt.
Leaves the wing as the deciding factor.

[jbk1234]

Holding things together defensively is Mobley's theme. But doing so against the Magic is not much to go on.

Mobley will not be more than the 3rd option with Mitchell/Garland playing together. The other 2 are just simply much better offensively.

I just do not see him as a better center (today) than Allen. Just like I don't see Allen as a better PF than Mobley. Fans love the one they have.

I would be equally acceptable if Cleveland traded Garland to Washington for #3 and Avdija. The defense would soar, but there would need to be a move for another offensive player to support Mitchell.

Mitchell/Okoro/Avdija/Mobley/Allen plus whoever at #2 - Sarr/Risacher/Castle/Clingan.

The Cavs are not going to trade Mobley. He's 22 and the plan when they drafted was to build as though he'd be fully developed at around 26. You asked why. I offered an explanation. Fans can be impatient, front offices should not.

Everyone knows they are not. This is a discussion of the proposed trade.
Still I have yet to understand why posters say “Team X is not trading Player Y”. No team ever came on this board and thought “That is a good idea “ and went out and made the offer.
The craziest response from any ouster is “They want do it”.

As I've said repeatedly here, it's a fantasy board so have at it. However, if the goal is to talk about trades that might actually happen, then proposing trades that one team would shut down in real life isn't likely to lead to productive discussion.

[louc1970]

The Cavs are not going to trade Mobley. He's 22 and the plan when they drafted was to build as though he'd be fully developed at around 26. You asked why. I offered an explanation. Fans can be impatient, front offices should not.

Everyone knows they are not. This is a discussion of the proposed trade.
Still I have yet to understand why posters say “Team X is not trading Player Y”. No team ever came on this board and thought “That is a good idea “ and went out and made the offer.
The craziest response from any ouster is “They want do it”.

As I've said repeatedly here, it's a fantasy board so have at it. However, if the goal is to talk about trades that might actually happen, then proposing trades that one team would shut down in real life isn't likely to lead to productive discussion.

Rate the players in order:
Wemby
Mobley
Paolo
Jalen Johnson
Barnes
Holmgren
M. Porter Jr
Jaden McDaniels
Williamson
Ingram
Jabari Smith

All young players.

[jbk1234]

Everyone knows they are not. This is a discussion of the proposed trade.
Still I have yet to understand why posters say “Team X is not trading Player Y”. No team ever came on this board and thought “That is a good idea “ and went out and made the offer.
The craziest response from any ouster is “They want do it”.

As I've said repeatedly here, it's a fantasy board so have at it. However, if the goal is to talk about trades that might actually happen, then proposing trades that one team would shut down in real life isn't likely to lead to productive discussion.

Rate the players in order:
Wemby
Mobley
Paolo
Jalen Johnson
Barnes
Holmgren
M. Porter Jr
Jaden McDaniels
Williamson
Ingram
Jabari Smith

All young players.

I'd argue that Ingram is 26, about to sign his 3rd NBA contract, and really shouldn't be compared to those still on rookie contracts. MPJ will be 26 so I wouldn't put him on there either.

Obviously neither the Thunder nor Spurs would entertain offers on Chet nor Wemby. I have Mobley below those guys, but not by much. I wouldn't trade Mobley for any of the other rookie contract guys on that list, nor would the Cavs. Others are free to rank them how they like.

[axeman23]

Holding things together defensively is Mobley's theme. But doing so against the Magic is not much to go on.

Mobley will not be more than the 3rd option with Mitchell/Garland playing together. The other 2 are just simply much better offensively.

I just do not see him as a better center (today) than Allen. Just like I don't see Allen as a better PF than Mobley. Fans love the one they have.

I would be equally acceptable if Cleveland traded Garland to Washington for #3 and Avdija. The defense would soar, but there would need to be a move for another offensive player to support Mitchell.

Mitchell/Okoro/Avdija/Mobley/Allen plus whoever at #2 - Sarr/Risacher/Castle/Clingan.

The Cavs are not going to trade Mobley. He's 22 and the plan when they drafted was to build as though he'd be fully developed at around 26. You asked why. I offered an explanation. Fans can be impatient, front offices should not.

But if you truly believe Cleveland is priming for when Mobley turns 26, they should trade Mitchell for younger players with crazy upside.
By the time Mobley is “ready”, Mitchell will be 31/32. Unless he can become a full time PG, he is going to be declining with the pounding he takes/gives.

I'd ABSOLUTELY trade DM for young upside players! When the lottery was sorted, straight away i wanted to move DM to the Spurs for 4+8+salary and target Risacher and Knecht. But it seems BOTH of them now have either raised their stock above those slots, or other prospects may have lost some shine. I still might do it with different players still available, but Risacher would be the 1 I'd REALLY push for.

And if DM is your full-time PG, you may as well have him out there with 4 Tall Boys, arms flopping in the wind.

[Presser]

Mobley doesn't have the talent to be a 1st or 2nd option perimeter player. It isn't about waiting another 4 years to see what happens in his development. Mobley was always projected as a 5. I maintain that he is ready to be a full-time 5. Playing him at the 4 allows us to do the easy thing and keep Allen, but it does make Evan Mobley a less valuable player. It is easier to get away with an offensively limited 4 when he is on a rookie contract, but it is more painful when he is making the max.

Well, he's got a year left on his rookie deal, and if the Cavs don't get to the conference finals next season, they probably have a decision to make at that point. However, the road in East probably runs through Boston for the next couple years anyway, and I'm not convinced a team with a more conventional lineup has a better chance at beating them than the Cavs as currently constructed. I'm not going to hammer them for running it back under a new coach and hoping for better health.

The Cavs when healthy have a shot at the Celtics. It boils down to Cavs defensive front court vs the Celtics offensive front court. And vice versa for the backcourt.
Leaves the wing as the deciding factor.

Cavs are nowhere near Boston right now.

[phraoh]

Yes, the Cavs 18-2 run was against not great teams for the most part...but what was their record against not great teams when they had all 4 or at least 3 of the 4 (I would guess to be pretty bad and definitely worse). From watching their games, they NEED to change their top 4 as its a very mismatched starting 5. Garland needs to be traded at the very least, but they also should be looking to trade Levert, Niang, and Okoro (sign and trade). Team needs bonafide good starting SF...Strus needs to be top backup G/F.....PG needs to be an all around decent offensive player that doesn't need the ball, but should be a plus defender. Personally, I don't see Mobley being more than an above average big, but not a dominating star, but bigs do take time to develop in many cases. I do think the Cavs need to bring in a PF/C type that can shoot and score. This would alleviate some of the issues with Allen/Mobley. Definitely would like to see a Garland for Towns trade.

[jbk1234]

Yes, the Cavs 18-2 run was against not great teams for the most part...but what was their record against not great teams when they had all 4 or at least 3 of the 4 (I would guess to be pretty bad and definitely worse). From watching their games, they NEED to change their top 4 as its a very mismatched starting 5. Garland needs to be traded at the very least, but they also should be looking to trade Levert, Niang, and Okoro (sign and trade). Team needs bonafide good starting SF...Strus needs to be top backup G/F.....PG needs to be an all around decent offensive player that doesn't need the ball, but should be a plus defender. Personally, I don't see Mobley being more than an above average big, but not a dominating star, but bigs do take time to develop in many cases. I do think the Cavs need to bring in a PF/C type that can shoot and score. This would alleviate some of the issues with Allen/Mobley. Definitely would like to see a Garland for Towns trade.

The Cavs starters played less than 25% of the regular season games together last year. I think they're comfortable running it back one more season.

[TGW]

There is no way the Wizards would trade Avdija and #2 for Garland. Garland is so overated and Deni is miles better than him on the defensive end of the court.