Who needs a Dort?

[M-C-G]

Bucks should do everything they can to swap BroLo for Dort.

Agree with this.

Seems like Brook for Dort and like 2M in salary filler would work in the espn trade machine. Opens up a hole for the Bucks at the 5, but makes a lot of sense for helping both teams also fill big holes they currently have.

[K_chile22]

I hate that value for OKC. Dort is one of the 5 best perimeter defenders in the league and shot 39% from 3 on medium volume (5 attempts). I'd take him over Allen 10x out of 10. Maybe there is a three way where Allen + 22 + assets from OKC get the Thunder someone they want and Phoenix gets Dort.

He's the third best perimeter defender on his own team at the moment, not anywhere close to 5th best in the league? But yeah he's certainly worth more than Allen

Dort is easily the best perimeter defender on the team and gets assigned the toughest assignments. SGA and JDub are both good defenders, JDub moreso than SGA, but neither can lock up on the perimeter than Dort.

I assume those are the two you were talking about when you said Dort was the 3rd best perimter defedner on OKC.

Jdub and now Caruso are clearly better to me

[shakes0]

He's the third best perimeter defender on his own team at the moment, not anywhere close to 5th best in the league? But yeah he's certainly worth more than Allen

Dort is easily the best perimeter defender on the team and gets assigned the toughest assignments. SGA and JDub are both good defenders, JDub moreso than SGA, but neither can lock up on the perimeter than Dort.

I assume those are the two you were talking about when you said Dort was the 3rd best perimter defedner on OKC.

Jdub and now Caruso are clearly better to me

ah, i wasn't thinking of Caruso. Don't agree on JDub being a better perimeter defender. Plus, even if JDub is better, he has a much bigger offensive load so being able to defer a tough matchup to Dort is a massive bonus for OKC.

[penbeast0]

Dort for Kuzma?

I think it makes good sense for OKC in that Kuzma is a big forward who can rebound and will allow JDub to play some SF instead of always having to guard bigger players. Kuzma shoots 41% on corner 3's so he'll be a much better floor spacer than Giddey. And Kuzma has the ball skills and decision-making to make plays on the fly when attacking a close out, and he can be a primary option scorer on a 2nd unit. He's not just a 3&D player.

I don't really like it for Washington though. Washington already has two up-and-coming defensive aces in Deni and Coulibaly. They don't need another. They need more offense. Maybe some kind of 3-way where Dort goes to a 3rd team and that 3rd team sends pick capital to Washington?

IF OKC offers this, I'd take it. Unlike scorers, you can never have too many outstanding man defenders and Avdija and Coulibaly both have forward size while Dort is much smaller and quicker. I know we want more picks so as not to short circuit the tank before getting a star but I would love to start creating a defensive identity for the team.

[nate33]

I remember thinking several times during the playoffs, "Dort is causing all sorts of problems why do they always want to trade him?"

Dort is EXCELLENT when he has other people taking offensive pressure off him.

Dort is BAD when he feels like he has to create offense.

The bigger his offensive role, the worse he is. Keep him as a corner or shake 3 guy and an occasional closeout, he's good. And the defense is always there.

In the playoffs, they were trying to find anyone to create offense and Dort did what Dort does; make sure he feels like he doesn't HAVE to do that and slot him in a smaller role and he's great.

all that is true and the reason why it would be foolish to trade him. He's a fantastic 3&D guy, but he needs to stay in his lane. Had no problem with that all season long, but then in the playoffs some of the other more creative players on the team stopped producing and Dort took it on himself to pick up the slack. Didn't pan out, but I wouldn't put that on him. I blame the better players who disappeared vs Dallas.

With Caruso's health I think it would be foolish to get rid of Dort.

I think you have the cause and effect backwards.

The other more creative players stopped producing because the opposition cheated off of Dort to stop them. That's what happens in the playoffs when teams scout you thoroughly. It's why OKC really needs at least one more guy who can do some stuff creatively. They can't put it all on SGA and JDub. Ideally, that guy is a big forward because OKC has so little depth up front. It's why I think Kuzma is a great fit.

[shakes0]

Dort is EXCELLENT when he has other people taking offensive pressure off him.

Dort is BAD when he feels like he has to create offense.

The bigger his offensive role, the worse he is. Keep him as a corner or shake 3 guy and an occasional closeout, he's good. And the defense is always there.

In the playoffs, they were trying to find anyone to create offense and Dort did what Dort does; make sure he feels like he doesn't HAVE to do that and slot him in a smaller role and he's great.

all that is true and the reason why it would be foolish to trade him. He's a fantastic 3&D guy, but he needs to stay in his lane. Had no problem with that all season long, but then in the playoffs some of the other more creative players on the team stopped producing and Dort took it on himself to pick up the slack. Didn't pan out, but I wouldn't put that on him. I blame the better players who disappeared vs Dallas.

With Caruso's health I think it would be foolish to get rid of Dort.

I think you have the cause and effect backwards.

The other more creative players stopped producing because the opposition cheated off of Dort to stop them. That's what happens in the playoffs when teams scout you thoroughly. It's why OKC really needs at least one more guy who can do some stuff creatively. They can't put it all on SGA and JDub. Ideally, that guy is a big forward because OKC has so little depth up front. It's why I think Kuzma is a great fit.

that's not true at all. JDub being completely terrible in the Dallas series had nothing to do with Dort. Chet and SGA disappearing at times during the playoffs had nothing to do with Dort. Those guys struggling to get to the hoop and create and instead moving the ball to a teammate before it eventually ended up with Dort is the reason Dort was forced to try and create offense when normally he would be content to sit in teh corner waiting for wide open 3s from drive and kicks.

[nate33]

that's not true at all. JDub being completely terrible in the Dallas series had nothing to do with Dort. Chet and SGA disappearing at times during the playoffs had nothing to do with Dort. Those guys struggling to get to the hoop and create and instead moving the ball to a teammate before it eventually ended up with Dort is the reason Dort was forced to try and create offense when normally he would be content to sit in teh corner waiting for wide open 3s from drive and kicks.

Why do you think SGA and JDub suddenly "struggled to get to the hoop"? Did they just decide, for no reason at all, "I'm just not going to go to the basket anymore".

[shakes0]

that's not true at all. JDub being completely terrible in the Dallas series had nothing to do with Dort. Chet and SGA disappearing at times during the playoffs had nothing to do with Dort. Those guys struggling to get to the hoop and create and instead moving the ball to a teammate before it eventually ended up with Dort is the reason Dort was forced to try and create offense when normally he would be content to sit in teh corner waiting for wide open 3s from drive and kicks.

Why do you think SGA and JDub suddenly "struggled to get to the hoop"? Did they just decide, for no reason at all, "I'm just not going to got to the basket anymore".

SGA was pretty banged up. Both of them fatigued in the playoffs and it was amplified when they went against the physical Mavericks. The mobile bigs from Dallas protected the lane and it looked like JDub, SGA and Chet all lost their legs as the series wore on. They opted to give up the ball rather than take it to the hole.

It had NOTHING to do with Lou Dort. No one is sagging off Dort that much anyway since he is a good shooter. You make it sound like teams are just leaving Dort all alone out there which is far from the case. The guy you're thinking of is Giddey and he got benched as a result.

[nate33]

that's not true at all. JDub being completely terrible in the Dallas series had nothing to do with Dort. Chet and SGA disappearing at times during the playoffs had nothing to do with Dort. Those guys struggling to get to the hoop and create and instead moving the ball to a teammate before it eventually ended up with Dort is the reason Dort was forced to try and create offense when normally he would be content to sit in teh corner waiting for wide open 3s from drive and kicks.

Why do you think SGA and JDub suddenly "struggled to get to the hoop"? Did they just decide, for no reason at all, "I'm just not going to got to the basket anymore".

SGA was pretty banged up. Both of them fatigued in the playoffs and it was amplified when they went against the physical Mavericks. The mobile bigs from Dallas protected the lane and it looked like JDub, SGA and Chet all lost their legs as the series wore on. They opted to give up the ball rather than take it to the hole.

It had NOTHING to do with Lou Dort. No one is sagging off Dort that much anyway since he is a good shooter. You make it sound like teams are just leaving Dort all alone out there which is far from the case. The guy you're thinking of is Giddey and he got benched as a result.

This is EXACTLY what Dallas did. They put their center on Giddey and forced OKC to take Giddey off the floor. After that, they put their center on Dort and cheated off of him. That's why life was difficult for SGA and JDub. Why on Earth would SGA and JDub suddenly "lose their legs" when nobody else did?

[shakes0]

Why do you think SGA and JDub suddenly "struggled to get to the hoop"? Did they just decide, for no reason at all, "I'm just not going to got to the basket anymore".

SGA was pretty banged up. Both of them fatigued in the playoffs and it was amplified when they went against the physical Mavericks. The mobile bigs from Dallas protected the lane and it looked like JDub, SGA and Chet all lost their legs as the series wore on. They opted to give up the ball rather than take it to the hole.

It had NOTHING to do with Lou Dort. No one is sagging off Dort that much anyway since he is a good shooter. You make it sound like teams are just leaving Dort all alone out there which is far from the case. The guy you're thinking of is Giddey and he got benched as a result.

This is EXACTLY what Dallas did. They put their center on Giddey and forced OKC to take Giddey off the floor. After that, they put their center on Dort and cheated off of him. That's why life was difficult for SGA and JDub. Why on Earth would SGA and JDub suddenly "lose their legs" when nobody else did?

SGA, JDub and CHet all lost their legs in that series. Had nothing to do with Dort. Had everything to do with them being young and being in the playoffs for the first time after a long season. SGA was already hurt and struggling with fitness the entire last month of the regular season.

SGA, JDub and Chet are also the 3 biggest creators on the team and ahve the ball the most. Makes perfect sense that they would tire quicker than the guys who sit in the corner and shoot 3s all game. SGA and JDub struggled to beat their man and even make it to the lane. THat has nothing to do with big men cheating off Dort and everything to do with those guys losing their legs.

[Andre Roberstan]

SGA was pretty banged up. Both of them fatigued in the playoffs and it was amplified when they went against the physical Mavericks. The mobile bigs from Dallas protected the lane and it looked like JDub, SGA and Chet all lost their legs as the series wore on. They opted to give up the ball rather than take it to the hole.

It had NOTHING to do with Lou Dort. No one is sagging off Dort that much anyway since he is a good shooter. You make it sound like teams are just leaving Dort all alone out there which is far from the case. The guy you're thinking of is Giddey and he got benched as a result.

This is EXACTLY what Dallas did. They put their center on Giddey and forced OKC to take Giddey off the floor. After that, they put their center on Dort and cheated off of him. That's why life was difficult for SGA and JDub. Why on Earth would SGA and JDub suddenly "lose their legs" when nobody else did?

SGA, JDub and CHet all lost their legs in that series. Had nothing to do with Dort. Had everything to do with them being young and being in the playoffs for the first time after a long season. SGA was already hurt and struggling with fitness the entire last month of the regular season.

SGA, JDub and Chet are also the 3 biggest creators on the team and ahve the ball the most. Makes perfect sense that they would tire quicker than the guys who sit in the corner and shoot 3s all game. SGA and JDub struggled to beat their man and even make it to the lane. THat has nothing to do with big men cheating off Dort and everything to do with those guys losing their legs.

In the playoffs, which team do you expect to get tired first?

My money would NOT be on the youngest team in the league.

You're saying they got tired because they're young?

[shakes0]

This is EXACTLY what Dallas did. They put their center on Giddey and forced OKC to take Giddey off the floor. After that, they put their center on Dort and cheated off of him. That's why life was difficult for SGA and JDub. Why on Earth would SGA and JDub suddenly "lose their legs" when nobody else did?

SGA, JDub and CHet all lost their legs in that series. Had nothing to do with Dort. Had everything to do with them being young and being in the playoffs for the first time after a long season. SGA was already hurt and struggling with fitness the entire last month of the regular season.

SGA, JDub and Chet are also the 3 biggest creators on the team and ahve the ball the most. Makes perfect sense that they would tire quicker than the guys who sit in the corner and shoot 3s all game. SGA and JDub struggled to beat their man and even make it to the lane. THat has nothing to do with big men cheating off Dort and everything to do with those guys losing their legs.

In the playoffs, which team do you expect to get tired first?

My money would NOT be on the youngest team in the league.

You're saying they got tired because they're young?

I'll take experienced legs over young legs when things get physical like they do in the playoffs.

[Andre Roberstan]

SGA, JDub and CHet all lost their legs in that series. Had nothing to do with Dort. Had everything to do with them being young and being in the playoffs for the first time after a long season. SGA was already hurt and struggling with fitness the entire last month of the regular season.

SGA, JDub and Chet are also the 3 biggest creators on the team and ahve the ball the most. Makes perfect sense that they would tire quicker than the guys who sit in the corner and shoot 3s all game. SGA and JDub struggled to beat their man and even make it to the lane. THat has nothing to do with big men cheating off Dort and everything to do with those guys losing their legs.

In the playoffs, which team do you expect to get tired first?

My money would NOT be on the youngest team in the league.

You're saying they got tired because they're young?

I'll take experienced legs over young legs when things get physical like they do in the playoffs.

You do remember Thunder vs. Spurs in 2012, right? They ran them off the court.

I think you just like Dort and are trying to come up with reasons why what obviously happened (because it's been the playbook since GSW did it to Tony Allen years ago) didn't happen. You can look at Dort's shooting volume from 3 and see it crystal clear: the last four games of the Mavs series he shot significantly more from 3. Because he was open. His FGA ticked up too. The Mavs locked down the other guys and let him do what he wanted because it was a winning strategy.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dortlu01/gamelog/2024

I'm not saying he was Tony Allen or Andre Roberson as an offensive player; he's clearly not. But forcing a less-skilled offensive player to take a bigger role and concentrating your defense on the best players on the team by bringing help from that least skilled player ... that's such an obvious tactic that everyone does it. Including the Mavs in the series OKC lost.

It's weird that you're being this defensive about it given that it happens in every single playoff series that a team can get away with it.

[DrModesty]

In the playoffs, which team do you expect to get tired first?

My money would NOT be on the youngest team in the league.

You're saying they got tired because they're young?

I'll take experienced legs over young legs when things get physical like they do in the playoffs.

You do remember Thunder vs. Spurs in 2012, right? They ran them off the court.

I think you just like Dort and are trying to come up with reasons why what obviously happened (because it's been the playbook since GSW did it to Tony Allen years ago) didn't happen. You can look at Dort's shooting volume from 3 and see it crystal clear: the last four games of the Mavs series he shot significantly more from 3. Because he was open. His FGA ticked up too. The Mavs locked down the other guys and let him do what he wanted because it was a winning strategy.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dortlu01/gamelog/2024

I'm not saying he was Tony Allen or Andre Roberson as an offensive player; he's clearly not. But forcing a less-skilled offensive player to take a bigger role and concentrating your defense on the best players on the team by bringing help from that least skilled player ... that's such an obvious tactic that everyone does it. Including the Mavs in the series OKC lost.

It's weird that you're being this defensive about it given that it happens in every single playoff series that a team can get away with it.

Despite Dallas trying to make sure Dort was taking as many shots as possible, J-Dub and Chet also consistently turned down semi contested looks which is a huge reason why Dort seemed to feel compelled to try and force his own game. I tend to agree with Shakes here.

[Andre Roberstan]

I'll take experienced legs over young legs when things get physical like they do in the playoffs.

You do remember Thunder vs. Spurs in 2012, right? They ran them off the court.

I think you just like Dort and are trying to come up with reasons why what obviously happened (because it's been the playbook since GSW did it to Tony Allen years ago) didn't happen. You can look at Dort's shooting volume from 3 and see it crystal clear: the last four games of the Mavs series he shot significantly more from 3. Because he was open. His FGA ticked up too. The Mavs locked down the other guys and let him do what he wanted because it was a winning strategy.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dortlu01/gamelog/2024

I'm not saying he was Tony Allen or Andre Roberson as an offensive player; he's clearly not. But forcing a less-skilled offensive player to take a bigger role and concentrating your defense on the best players on the team by bringing help from that least skilled player ... that's such an obvious tactic that everyone does it. Including the Mavs in the series OKC lost.

It's weird that you're being this defensive about it given that it happens in every single playoff series that a team can get away with it.

Despite Dallas trying to make sure Dort was taking as many shots as possible, J-Dub and Chet also consistently turned down semi contested looks which is a huge reason why Dort seemed to feel compelled to try and force his own game. I tend to agree with Shakes here.

Both things can be true (and are). The other guys were turning down looks, but it doesn't change that Dort was the most open because of scheme.

[giannis and 1]

I remember thinking several times during the playoffs, "Dort is causing all sorts of problems why do they always want to trade him?"

Dort is EXCELLENT when he has other people taking offensive pressure off him.

Dort is BAD when he feels like he has to create offense.

The bigger his offensive role, the worse he is. Keep him as a corner or shake 3 guy and an occasional closeout, he's good. And the defense is always there.

In the playoffs, they were trying to find anyone to create offense and Dort did what Dort does; make sure he feels like he doesn't HAVE to do that and slot him in a smaller role and he's great.

Would be a perfect fit on the Bucks if he can play near-elite perimeter defense and just stand in the corner on offense. Brook straight up? Portis+33?

How about something like:
Thunder get Brook and Portis
Bucks get Dort and WCJ
Magic get 2025 OKC 1st, 2024 #33, Kenrich Williams, Beauchamp

[Realtalk420]

What about Gafford for Dort?
Dallas probably needs to add a little…?