I'd Rather Dan Haren than lose Phil Hughes

ManicBullsFan · Post #1 » by **ManicBullsFan** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 7:55 am

It's like trading lebron or durrant as a rookie who hasn't played a game.

Phil has done well in New York. Johan is a GREAT pitcher, but the fans have invested a great deal into this kid already. And everyone know players who come through the system do more for their clubs because they are invested in them too.

Keep Phil

Get Haren and Dotel.

Post #2 » by **HCYanks** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 8:24 am

I don't think we're getting Haren without a Hughes package, either. Remember, Haren's still locked up for three years at a very nice contract. That means:

a)There's gonna be a lot more teams involved than just the Yanks/Sox.
b)Beane doesn't have to trade Haren if he doesn't want to.

ManicBullsFan · Post #3 » by **ManicBullsFan** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 8:49 am

yea your right. Though they may like someone else a lot in our minor league system that can satisify them along with melky and or whoever. Or just keep him

VinnyTheMick · Post #4 » by **VinnyTheMick** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 1:24 pm

I think they'd want Hughes in any deal. Plus Haren is a righty & we have tons of talented RHP in our system, not so much when it comes to LHP.

JohnnyK · Post #5 » by **JohnnyK** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 2:55 pm

Take a look at Haren's splits. Of course he is a good pitcher, but he declines significantly in the second half - so is he really someone who you'd want on the Yankees?

34Celtic · Post #6 » by **34Celtic** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 4:08 pm

ManicBullsFan wrote:It's like trading lebron or durrant as a rookie who hasn't played a game.

Phil has done well in New York. Johan is a GREAT pitcher, but the fans have invested a great deal into this kid already. And everyone know players who come through the system do more for their clubs because they are invested in them too.

Keep Phil

Get Haren and Dotel.

Phil Hughes is not Lebron James...lets get that straightened out...

You really want Dotel again?

Post #7 » by **Chach** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 4:56 pm

The Yanks bent on their no Hughes pledge for Santana. They can say "Oh, we were only going to trade him for Santana" but no one will listen anymore. When you have over a dozen teams fighting for a cost controlled All Star game starter, you need to give up more than spare parts. It's going to cost Hughes in order to get Haren. If Beane doesn't fleece a team of Haren, he's not trading him. mahalo
~Chach~

Post #8 » by **sully00** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 6:07 pm

You can't protect everyone or you can't make a deal. In the end you only need 4 good starters to make up a rotation.

The problem is everywhere accept for Yankee fandom Hughes took a step back within his own organization as well is in the Major Leagues. Chamberlain is the number one guy in the organization now, and for me there is a question about whether Hughes is going to be a better pitcher than Kennedy.

Post #9 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 6:20 pm

sully00 wrote:You can't protect everyone or you can't make a deal. In the end you only need 4 good starters to make up a rotation.

The problem is everywhere accept for Yankee fandom Hughes took a step back within his own organization as well is in the Major Leagues. Chamberlain is the number one guy in the organization now, and for me there is a question about whether Hughes is going to be a better pitcher than Kennedy.

Hughes didn't take a step back, Chamberlain took a giant leap forward. It took the Yankees 3 days of internal discussions to decide to even include Hughes, and they refuse to include anything good with him for the best pitcher in the world. I don't see how that means he took a step back in the Yankees' minds or the rest of baseball considering that he is the guy the Twins want for the best pitcher in the world. And if you question whether or not he will be better than Kennedy, then I don't even know what to say.

Post #10 » by **sully00** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 8:11 pm

There is nothing to say. Hughes has to pitch better to be the guy he was billed to be. This were the rubber hits the road and the potential and reality divert. He has to pitch better than Ian Kennedy to be better, the rest is message board bull. Injury concerns and excuses are just that. I like talent and everyone can read scouting reports from a year or two ago, I just like results too. Kennedy shot through the system last year and had the same numbers that Hughes did the year before.

There is a reason that Hughes went from untouchable to being included in a potential deal and if you don't understand that I don't know what to say.

cmaff051 · Post #11 » by **cmaff051** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 8:20 pm

I'd rather get the best pitcher in baseball, in his prime, than Dan Haren, who has had one great year in his career. If that means giving up Phil Hughes, oh well. I'll be sad that he is gone but make no mistake this makes the team much better next year, the year after, the year after that, and so on. You really need to divorce yourself from the emotional aspect of this trade and look at it logically.

Post #12 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 8:38 pm

sully00 wrote:There is nothing to say. Hughes has to pitch better to be the guy he was billed to be. This were the rubber hits the road and the potential and reality divert. He has to pitch better than Ian Kennedy to be better, the rest is message board bull. Injury concerns and excuses are just that. I like talent and everyone can read scouting reports from a year or two ago, I just like results too. Kennedy shot through the system last year and had the same numbers that Hughes did the year before.

There is a reason that Hughes went from untouchable to being included in a potential deal and if you don't understand that I don't know what to say.

Hughes didn't give you results last year? A 1.28 WHIP, .235 BAA, 64 hits allowed in 72.2 innings, and pitched us into the playoffs into September (3-0, 2.73 ERA, .229 BAA, 1.18 WHIP). Enlighten me please, what are YOUR expectations of the youngest pitcher in all of baseball?

Kennedy pitched 19 innings before his season was ended due to injury, so relax.

And don't compare their minor league numbers either. Hughes a dominant groundball pitcher (GO/AO around 2 and over) and strikeout pitcher (10.18 K/9) in the minors with a WHIP around 0.80, all while doing it at younger ages than Kennedy, whose WHIP was close to 1 with a GO/AO over LESS than 1 through the minors last season. Kennedy's K/9 in the minors was relatively high, but he obviously doesn't project to be a strikeout pitcher in the majors.

Don't fool yourself by putting the two in the same group. Cashman began to dub them as the "big 3" in order to raise Kennedy's value by grouping him with Joba and Hughes. Also, the only reason Hughes went from being untouchable to tradeable is because the best pitcher in the world is on the trade market. Even then our GM didn't want to include Hughes, but Hank feels differently. Wouldn't that actually speak to Hughes' ability and potential that Minnesota laughed at a deal surrounded by Kennedy and demanded Hughes as the centerpiece for a trade which would bring back the best pitcher in the world?

a-rod · Post #13 » by **a-rod** » Mon Dec 3, 2007 10:37 pm

VinnyTheMick wrote:I think they'd want Hughes in any deal. Plus Haren is a righty & we have tons of talented RHP in our system, not so much when it comes to LHP.

agreed