NBA Draft 2024

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[RedIndian]

Look, I wrote extensively about the list of guys I'd have taken at #22. My favourite pick was actually DaRon Holmes.

I also said specifically that I wouldn't draft Dunn because of his egregious shot, but I think people need to appreciate how special of a defensive prospect he is. He isn't Thybulle or just a larger Okogie. He's a DPOY calibre prospect. I'd compare him with Mobley, AD, Marion, Kirilenko in the type of prospect he is. Sam Vecenie literally called him the best defensive player he's seen in a decade.

If he could shoot (or do anything offensively), he'd have been the #1 pick in this draft.

Yeah, his shooting will likely suck forever. But he's going to give us some electrifying moments. THAT's worth getting behind.

And Fwiw, just to be hopeful, a few things:

1. His high school tape showed a lot more promise for him offensively. Some flashes of dribbling, self-creation and passing that you didn't see in college. Tony Bennett at Virginia is notorious for running a very rigid offensive scheme.

2. He's an excellent cutter and finisher. Took 60% of his shots at the rim, and converted 69% (outstanding number for a wing). Isn't just athletic and explosive with his dunks, but he's very good at timing his cuts and slips. So while he won't shoot in year 1, look for him to generate points on lobs, screens and cuts - he's already very good at this.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Mr Puddles]

I see a lot of people talking about how Dunn needs to develop his three point shot, however I hope that our coaching staff can utilize him in more creative ways.

Dunn is reportedly good at cutting to the basket and finishing around the rim. He has the length of a power forward so should be able to finish over most defenders.

If our strategy on offense is to just camp anyone not named Booker, KD or Beal around the three point line and bomb away open threes, then why even have a coaching staff. I can come up with that. We need to run sets that play into our player's strengths.

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://www.si.com/nba/suns/analysis/grading-phoenix-suns-first-round-moves

Dunn is a high-impact defender and phenomenal athlete that can slot into a rotational spot right away to play crucial minutes as a POA (point of attack) defender with hope that the offensive game will develop at the next level.

First-Round Grade: A-
The Suns traded down, added more flexibility moving forward, and got the prospect they were likely the highest on. The Suns also have an opportunity to move up and get a prospect they like this afternoon - so stay tuned.

[garrick]

Is there a big difference between a guy like Dunn and Mattise Thybulle?

Seems like another guy other teams can double off to trap Booker, KD and Beal.

If it's a bad draft (and everyone says it is) then doesn't it make sense to get the sure thing?

I mean can you tell me for sure that Kolek/Collier can run an NBA offense effectively and not get played off the court via defense and ability to do it at this level in 3 years? Cause I can tell you that 3 years from now Dunn will be able to stay in front of his man. Take the guaranteed thing.

I'd bet on it.

You could say the same about Okogie and Little though.

Wing players that can play good defense that can't shoot are not at all uncommon and you know how teams exploited Okogie's lack of shooting skills allowing them to double anyone else that was a remotely a threat to score.

Good defense≠Great defense

You're not comparing remotely the same things here boys.

Thybulle draft scouting report.

SCOUTING REPORT

A defensive ace… You will not find defenders that gifted very often… Has the ability to stay in front of players regardless of speed… Will be in the league for a long time just from his defense… Gets a ton of steals… Offensive game is still a work in progress, but has made threes at a decent clip… Ball has no reason to be in his hands on offense… This needs to change for him to take the next step.

Will have to see how his defense translates in the NBA.

Thybulle in Philly looked really good for awhile but watching him in Portland he's just unplayable at times when the offense lets him brick 3 after 3 which is the exact same strategy used against us in the playoffs with a lot of success.

I do agree that if you can get the same level of player at #28 that would be a good outcome but I'm questioning the fit because we need more than a wing defender someone who can rim run and grab rebounds consistently.

His athletic prowess doesn't impress me too much because we've seen numerous athletes just dominate at the collegiate level who struggle in the NBA, to make it you really need to be a really high IQ player and if Dunn is that player then I will be happy to have gotten him.

I think Holmes would have been the bigger impact player though but like all things only time will tell what the correct pick was.

[Slim Charless]

I see a lot of people talking about how Dunn needs to develop his three point shot, however I hope that our coaching staff can utilize him in more creative ways.

Dunn is reportedly good at cutting to the basket and finishing around the rim. He has the length of a power forward so should be able to finish over most defenders.

If our strategy on offense is to just camp anyone not named Booker, KD or Beal around the three point line and bomb away open threes, then why even have a coaching staff. I can come up with that. We need to run plays that play into our player's strengths.

Look, I wrote extensively about the list of guys I'd have taken at #22. My favourite pick was actually DaRon Holmes.

I also said specifically that I wouldn't draft Dunn because of his egregious shot, but I think people need to appreciate how special of a defensive prospect he is. He isn't Thybulle or just a larger Okogie. He's a DPOY calibre prospect. I'd compare him with Mobley, AD, Marion, Kirilenko in the type of prospect he is. Sam Vecenie literally called him the best defensive player he's seen in a decade.

If he could shoot (or do anything offensively), he'd have been the #1 pick in this draft.

Yeah, his shooting will likely suck forever. But he's going to give us some electrifying moments. THAT's worth getting behind.

And Fwiw, just to be hopeful, a few things:

1. His high school tape showed a lot more promise for him offensively. Some flashes of dribbling, self-creation and passing that you didn't see in college. Tony Bennett at Virginia is notorious for running a very rigid offensive scheme.

2. He's an excellent cutter and finisher. Took 60% of his shots at the rim, and converted 69% (outstanding number for a wing). Isn't just athletic and explosive with his dunks, but he's very good at timing his cuts and slips. So while he won't shoot in year 1, look for him to generate points on lobs, screens and cuts - he's already very good at this.

https://www.si.com/nba/suns/analysis/grading-phoenix-suns-first-round-moves

Dunn is a high-impact defender and phenomenal athlete that can slot into a rotational spot right away to play crucial minutes as a POA (point of attack) defender with hope that the offensive game will develop at the next level.

First-Round Grade: A-
The Suns traded down, added more flexibility moving forward, and got the prospect they were likely the highest on. The Suns also have an opportunity to move up and get a prospect they like this afternoon - so stay tuned.

Shhhhhh. We're in the "hate anything the Suns do" mode now. Don't ruin that with positivity. Shhhhhh.

Seriously, no matter who was taken certain guys here would bash us. If somehow we had managed to get Sarr for a 2031 SRP, posters here would find a way to crap on it.

A lot of these dudes don't even watch college ball. Dunn was a good and needed pick for the team.

[RedIndian]

So what are we expecting tomorrow? We stand pat at #56 or do we try move back higher into the 2nd round to try and get Kolek?

Utah at #32, Portland with #34 and #40, Minnesota with #37 and Charlotte with #42 could all be trade partners I think.

I think one possible deal could be Little + 3 2nds for Nick Richards + #42.

If Tyler Kolek or Ajay Mitchell (both of whom we worked out) are available at #42, I think that's something we'll look at. We've obviously liked Richards (lots of reports about that), and he's one of the few attainable pieces with the Little contract.

The other deal of course would Little for Kessler. But Ainge would certainly ask for the 2031 pick, and I'd imagine we want to preserve that for a genuine difference maker. What a pity we couldn't get in on the Avdija deal. 2 1sts is what it took to get him, and we should have offered that.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[sunsbg]

Drafting Dunn despite his lack of shooting is a positive sign FO is taking defense seriously. Wonder if that means chance of trading Nurk for defense is higher. If Dunn can contribute as a starter, which I doubt, than no. GoK listed a few PG options with 56. Let's hope Jones can find a gem that late in the draft or maybe they work out something to get Kolek.

[lilfishi22]

....and there's guys like Rudy Gobert who've won 4 DPOTYs and can't shoot work a lick. Same with Ben Wallace and Mutumbo. Bruce Bowen (ugh) couldn't shoot and he was 1st team many years. Same with Tony Allen.

Let me know when you've seen enough as I can keep naming players for you. Lack of shooting doesn't mean as much if you provide ELITE defense and have complimentary teammates.

In the decades there have been far more players who have come in as defensive standouts but can't stay on the floor long enough to make a difference than there have been the Ben Wallaces, Mutumbos and Goberts. Those are the exceptions NOT the rule

Here's a few guys who came into the league as elite defensive prospects that never left their mark in the NBA: Michael Kidd Gilchrist, Justise Winslow, Hasheem Thabeet, Jarvis Varnardo, Mo Bamba, Ekpe Udoh....

None of those guys have had even the remotely close to the defense numbers and everything that Dunn has had. Can we at least have this discussion in an adult way? I show you a historic prospect and you throw Thabeet back at me, lol.

C'mon Slim just because you don't like this discussion doesn't mean we're not talking about it an adult way. I gave you examples of elite defensive prospects, some with better and some with similar offensive skills (ie next to none) and these are just guys who have flamed out. If Herb Jones didn't become a shooter in the NBA and I listed his name, you'd just throw him into the same heap as the other guys I named because they didn't make it in the NBA. You only want to see names that became the exception like Jones, like OG, like Wallace, like Gobert. Yet you won't admit that they are the exception not the rule.

Regardless of how good his defense is (which I've already said is really good), the odds aren't in his favour from an offensive standpoint and whether you're a liability offensively or defensively, you're going to get found out and exploited at the NBA level and most guys who can't get their liabilities sorted, don't stick around in the NBA.

[Saberestar]

Is there a big difference between a guy like Dunn and Mattise Thybulle?

Seems like another guy other teams can double off to trap Booker, KD and Beal.

You could say the same about Okogie and Little though.

Wing players that can play good defense that can't shoot are not at all uncommon and you know how teams exploited Okogie's lack of shooting skills allowing them to double anyone else that was a remotely a threat to score.

Good defense≠Great defense

You're not comparing remotely the same things here boys.

Thybulle draft scouting report.

SCOUTING REPORT

A defensive ace… You will not find defenders that gifted very often… Has the ability to stay in front of players regardless of speed… Will be in the league for a long time just from his defense… Gets a ton of steals… Offensive game is still a work in progress, but has made threes at a decent clip… Ball has no reason to be in his hands on offense… This needs to change for him to take the next step.

Will have to see how his defense translates in the NBA.

Thybulle in Philly looked really good for awhile but watching him in Portland he's just unplayable at times when the offense lets him brick 3 after 3 which is the exact same strategy used against us in the playoffs with a lot of success.

I do agree that if you can get the same level of player at #28 that would be a good outcome but I'm questioning the fit because we need more than a wing defender someone who can rim run and grab rebounds consistently.

His athletic prowess doesn't impress me too much because we've seen numerous athletes just dominate at the collegiate level who struggle in the NBA, to make it you really need to be a really high IQ player and if Dunn is that player then I will be happy to have gotten him.

I think Holmes would have been the bigger impact player though but like all things only time will tell what the correct pick was.

Thybulle is 6'5 and can't play over the rim like Dunn.

Thybulle is more like a Raja Bell type of defender but he hasn't developed a good 3p shooting yet.

Dunn can be compared to Marion on defense because of his skills/mentality/high motor and his same measurements...6'7 and around 7'2 wingspan and 215 lbs.

That bigger size will make him more versatile and easier for him to be an impactful player on both sides of the court.

[lilfishi22]

Good defense≠Great defense

You're not comparing remotely the same things here boys.

Thybulle draft scouting report.

SCOUTING REPORT

A defensive ace… You will not find defenders that gifted very often… Has the ability to stay in front of players regardless of speed… Will be in the league for a long time just from his defense… Gets a ton of steals… Offensive game is still a work in progress, but has made threes at a decent clip… Ball has no reason to be in his hands on offense… This needs to change for him to take the next step.

Will have to see how his defense translates in the NBA.

Thybulle in Philly looked really good for awhile but watching him in Portland he's just unplayable at times when the offense lets him brick 3 after 3 which is the exact same strategy used against us in the playoffs with a lot of success.

I do agree that if you can get the same level of player at #28 that would be a good outcome but I'm questioning the fit because we need more than a wing defender someone who can rim run and grab rebounds consistently.

His athletic prowess doesn't impress me too much because we've seen numerous athletes just dominate at the collegiate level who struggle in the NBA, to make it you really need to be a really high IQ player and if Dunn is that player then I will be happy to have gotten him.

I think Holmes would have been the bigger impact player though but like all things only time will tell what the correct pick was.

Thybulle is 6'5 and can't play over the rim like Dunn.

Thybulle is more like a Raja Bell type of defender but he hasn't developed a good 3p shooting yet.

Dunn can be compared to Marion on defense because of his skills/mentality/high motor and his same measurements...6'7 and around 7'2 wingspan and 215 lbs.

That bigger size will make him more versatile and easier for him to be an impactful player on both sides of the court.

Thybulle has improved his 3PT shooting. It's not the most consistent but these past two seasons he's averaged 36% from 3 on almost 3 attempts a game. Also shot 38% on corner 3's. He's also improved on his FT shooting to comfortably above 70%. That's respectable but despite all that, he's still only averaging 7 FGA per36 for his career. He's essentially still treated as a non-factor on that end.

Thybulle is an elite defender, at the NBA level, and the only reason he doesn't get more PT is because he's still a negative on the offensive end. These will be the same issues Dunn will have to contend with when he gets to the NBA

[Saberestar]

Will have to see how his defense translates in the NBA.

Thybulle in Philly looked really good for awhile but watching him in Portland he's just unplayable at times when the offense lets him brick 3 after 3 which is the exact same strategy used against us in the playoffs with a lot of success.

I do agree that if you can get the same level of player at #28 that would be a good outcome but I'm questioning the fit because we need more than a wing defender someone who can rim run and grab rebounds consistently.

His athletic prowess doesn't impress me too much because we've seen numerous athletes just dominate at the collegiate level who struggle in the NBA, to make it you really need to be a really high IQ player and if Dunn is that player then I will be happy to have gotten him.

I think Holmes would have been the bigger impact player though but like all things only time will tell what the correct pick was.

Thybulle is 6'5 and can't play over the rim like Dunn.

Thybulle is more like a Raja Bell type of defender but he hasn't developed a good 3p shooting yet.

Dunn can be compared to Marion on defense because of his skills/mentality/high motor and his same measurements...6'7 and around 7'2 wingspan and 215 lbs.

That bigger size will make him more versatile and easier for him to be an impactful player on both sides of the court.

Thybulle has improved his 3PT shooting. It's not the most consistent but these past two seasons he's averaged 36% from 3 on almost 3 attempts a game. Also shot 38% on corner 3's. He's also improved on his FT shooting to comfortably above 70%. That's respectable but despite all that, he's still only averaging 7 FGA per36 for his career. He's essentially still treated as a non-factor on that end.

Thybulle is an elite defender, at the NBA level, and the only reason he doesn't get more PT is because he's still a negative on the offensive end. These will be the same issues Dunn will have to contend with when he gets to the NBA

Well, like I said Thybulle isn't a good comparison because he can't be used as a cutter or in the dunker spot because he can't finish at the rim with authority like Ryan Dunn.

At 6'5 Thybulle would need to score over 40% from three to be solid on offense because he isn't a lob threat or a crazy finisher in transition.

I want to give you an example...Derrick Jones Jr doesn't "need" to be that good at the 3p line to be useful on offense because he adds other stuff to his team with his athleticism, height and length.

[Ghost of Kleine]

So what are we expecting tomorrow? We stand pat at #56 or do we try move back higher into the 2nd round to try and get Kolek?

Utah at #32, Portland with #34 and #40, Minnesota with #37 and Charlotte with #42 could all be trade partners I think.

I think one possible deal could be Little + 3 2nds for Nick Richards + #42.

If Tyler Kolek or Ajay Mitchell (both of whom we worked out) are available at #42, I think that's something we'll look at. We've obviously liked Richards (lots of reports about that), and he's one of the few attainable pieces with the Little contract.

The other deal of course would Little for Kessler. But Ainge would certainly ask for the 2031 pick, and I'd imagine we want to preserve that for a genuine difference-maker. What a pity we couldn't get in on the Avdija deal. 2 1sts is what it took to get him, and we should have offered that.

I'd do the Richards trade, BUT I also kind of like the Utah Kssleer trade because IF we're willing to give up our 2031 1st (OF COURSE WITH SOME PROTECTIONS) (top 4 protected) and we can get something along the lines of:

Little/ PHX 2031 1st (top 4 protected) for Walker Kessler/ Micah Potter/ 32nd pick.
Then we could take Kolek still before a team like the Spurs or maybe the Blazers, Pacers, or Wolves would obviously take him with their early 2nd round picks. Also, Micah Potter is an athletic, rugged, skilled 6'10 248 lb 4/5 that just happened to shoot 43% from three. He's a low-budget version of Maxi Kleber (that could fill our backup floor spacing, 3-point shooting power forward/center role. And then we could flip Nurkic in a three-team trade to San Antonio for Devonte Graham's 12.6 million partially guaranteed contract and flip that to Portland for Robert William's 12.4 million contract because with drafting Edey and already having Ayton too, they really don't need Williams anymore. This would be the trade:

1- San Antonio/Portland/ Phoenix-

San Antonio-
Nurkic/ DEN 26' 2nd/ BOS 28' 2nd.

Portland-
Grahams' 12.4 million partially guaranteed contract (only 2 million if waived by July 1st, 2024)/ DEN 2031' 2nd.

Phoenix-
Robert Williams/ Toumani Camara.

draft night 2 Follow up trade
Phoenix/ Utah

Utah- Little/ PHX 2031 1st (top 4 protected)

Phoenix-
Kessler/Potter/32nd pick/ UTA 29' 2nd/ UTA 2031 2nd.

These specific trades would return two elite athletic, switchable proven centers in Timelord and Kessler, Kessler is a young raw version of Brook Lopez if he can develop his 3-point shot a bit more! And Robert Williams is still a dominant switchable defensive center even as a backup option at only 12 million. We'd also secure Koleek (or Mitchell) and replace our outgoing 2nds with two other future 2nds back from Utah.

Beal /Booker /Camara / Durant / Kessler.
Lowry/ Allen/ O'neale/ Potter/ Timelord.
Kolek/ D Lee/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Bidatze.

And we'd still have our 3 allowed two-way options and free agency options as well to fill out our roster. Overall, I'd say that swapping Nurkic/ Little/ 2031 1st/ 3 future 2nds for Robert Williams/ Walker Kessler/ Toumani Camara/ Tyler Kolek/ 2 other future 2nds is a really good value return. And again, those minuscule picks were given up to get much deeper now, we can replace them fairly easily once we trade one or two of our big three or even Allen and O'neale, etc. I also do like the Richards promise too!

*** For the 56th pick, I'd strongly look at either:
Quinton Post-
https://www.tankathon.com/players/quinten-post
Or
Ulriche Comche-
https://www.tankathon.com/players/ulrich-chomche.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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[RedIndian]

So, for Round 2, this is my positional ranking of prospects:

PGs

Ajay Mitchell
Tyler Kolek
Tristen Newton
Jamal Shead
KJ Simpson
Juan Nunez
Reece Beekman
Zyon Pullin
Boogie Ellis


Small Wings

Pelle Larsson
Cam Christie
Kevin McCullar
Johnny Furphy
Nikola Djurisic
Antonio Reeves
Trey Alexander
Trentyn Flowers
Melvin Ajinca

Big Wings

Tyler Smith
Jalen Bridges
Bobi Klintman
Harrison Ingram
Jonathan Mogbo
Isaiah Crawford
Keshad Johnson
Justin Edwards

Bigs

Kyle Filipowski
Adem Bona
PJ Hall
Ulrich Chomche
Oso Ighodaro
Quinten Post
Ariel Hukporti
N’Faly Dante

I love Ajay Mitchell, and I'd be very happy if we could trade up for him. Kolek would also work, but I prefer Mitchell. Pelle Larsson, Filipowski or Bona would also be nice, but they'd all likely be gone by #40.

If we're picking at #56, it'd be pretty slim pickings. The likelihood is that some of the bigger wings like Ingram, Keshad Johnson or Crawford would be available. But, having already taken Dunn, it'd be redundant to get another big wing.

The bigs who might be there at #56 are Ighodaro or PJ Hall. I'd be very pleased with PJ Hall. He's a Daniel Theis type. Undersized, but very strong, sets excellent screens, has some vertical pop, shoots the three, and is generally tough and ready-to-contribute from day 1.

Ighodaro is also a very high IQ big, and excellent short-roll passer, but he's undersized (6'11 wingspan), and also doesn't shoot the 3 which undermines his offensive ceiling.

Other possible prospects who might be at #56 are Djurisic, Reeves or Alexander. Not my favourite archetype, but if one of them is available, I think you probably take them for their scoring talent alone.

[Saberestar]

So what are we expecting tomorrow? We stand pat at #56 or do we try move back higher into the 2nd round to try and get Kolek?

Utah at #32, Portland with #34 and #40, Minnesota with #37 and Charlotte with #42 could all be trade partners I think.

I think one possible deal could be Little + 3 2nds for Nick Richards + #42.

If Tyler Kolek or Ajay Mitchell (both of whom we worked out) are available at #42, I think that's something we'll look at. We've obviously liked Richards (lots of reports about that), and he's one of the few attainable pieces with the Little contract.

The other deal of course would Little for Kessler. But Ainge would certainly ask for the 2031 pick, and I'd imagine we want to preserve that for a genuine difference maker. What a pity we couldn't get in on the Avdija deal. 2 1sts is what it took to get him, and we should have offered that.

I think James Jones did a terrific job trading #22 for his guy + 3 2nds but I think he is done making trades in this draft.

Bronny James IF he is available at #56. If Bronny is gone I think we will select an old prospect for that 15th roster spot.