2024 Off-Season

[JeffFosters]

. The East is also wing heavy at the top with Boston and NY, and having a rotation of Dort, Nesmith and Nemhard would help.

We also have Mathurin and Sheppard plus a two way and what the draft gives us.

Stix could be on the move for a starting spot.

I really like Math and Sheppard but neither is even remotely close to LG, at least on defense. Dort is a top 3 perimeter defender, decent spot up shooter, could take over the point of attack defense, and would pair with Nesmith to form a hellish perimeter defense. There’s a part of me that would add Dort and figure out center later.

NY and Boston won’t beat us inside.

[JeffFosters]

Yeah fair enough, just chucked it out here for discussion and if push came to shove I probably wouldn’t do it either. It’s more about Turner hitting the last year of his deal and he would seem to be a great fit in OkC, and I probably like Dort more than most people. The East is also wing heavy at the top with Boston and NY, and having a rotation of Dort, Nesmith and Nemhard would help.

I really don’t see how Indy competes with NY and Boston as they’re currently constructed.

You could probably get Dort for a lot less than Myles Turner. If Turner gets an extension that is team friendly and has another year like this last season I'd think his value should be pretty high.

Disagree, Dort is on a very reasonable deal and is the type of player front offices are fighting over. Caruso returned Giddey, can only imagine what it would take to tempt OkC to consider a trade. Turner probably isn’t the right trade though, I concede.

[Wizop]

I really like Math and Sheppard but neither is even remotely close to LG, at least on defense..

Nembhard, Nesmith, and Sheppard all hold their own defending twos. Our defensive need is for a tall 3.

[basketballwacko2]

. The East is also wing heavy at the top with Boston and NY, and having a rotation of Dort, Nesmith and Nemhard would help.

We also have Mathurin and Sheppard plus a two way and what the draft gives us.

Stix could be on the move for a starting spot.

I don't think there is any chance that Stix comes back after getting benched for Jackson in the Playoffs.

[basketballwacko2]

Yeah fair enough, just chucked it out here for discussion and if push came to shove I probably wouldn’t do it either. It’s more about Turner hitting the last year of his deal and he would seem to be a great fit in OkC, and I probably like Dort more than most people. The East is also wing heavy at the top with Boston and NY, and having a rotation of Dort, Nesmith and Nemhard would help.

I really don’t see how Indy competes with NY and Boston as they’re currently constructed.

You could probably get Dort for a lot less than Myles Turner. If Turner gets an extension that is team friendly and has another year like this last season I'd think his value should be pretty high.

Disagree, Dort is on a very reasonable deal and is the type of player front offices are fighting over. Caruso returned Giddey, can only imagine what it would take to tempt OkC to consider a trade. Turner probably isn’t the right trade though, I concede.

I don't think you can get Dort for nothing but Turner is just too much. Who plays center if you trade him for Dort?

[JeffFosters]

You could probably get Dort for a lot less than Myles Turner. If Turner gets an extension that is team friendly and has another year like this last season I'd think his value should be pretty high.

Disagree, Dort is on a very reasonable deal and is the type of player front offices are fighting over. Caruso returned Giddey, can only imagine what it would take to tempt OkC to consider a trade. Turner probably isn’t the right trade though, I concede.

I don't think you can get Dort for nothing but Turner is just too much. Who plays center if you trade him for Dort?

It was more a discussion of value and fit, but now you’re asking would Jaylin + Dort for Turner move the needle? The trade itself is a non-starter for many reasons but there’s few players in the league I’d see as a better fit at the 2 than Dort.

I really like Math and Sheppard but neither is even remotely close to LG, at least on defense..

Nembhard, Nesmith, and Sheppard all hold their own defending twos. Our defensive need is for a tall 3.

We got roasted by Tatum and Brown to the point of the series really not being competitive. NY adding Bridges and resigning OG leaves us battling a DDV-Bridges-OG rotation. Not to mention Brunson and Randle. We can’t roll out Sheppard and Nembhard and expect to be competitive.

[JeffFosters]

Ok I’ve gone and watched some of the Dallas and OkC series and Dallas repeatedly cheated off Dort to defend SGA and Williams. The trade idea is bad. My mental picture of Dort is quite different to the reality. Mathurin projects as a much better fit next to Hali for multiple reasons.

Looks like it was actually me in the Dorture chamber.

[JMaster5K]

Ok I’ve gone and watched some of the Dallas and OkC series and Dallas repeatedly cheated off Dort to defend SGA and Williams. The trade idea is bad. My mental picture of Dort is quite different to the reality. Mathurin projects as a much better fit next to Hali for multiple reasons.

Looks like it was actually me in the Dorture chamber.

We've all been there at some point,...

[Solid]

Fit, availability, money, age...all seem to point at Miles Bridges. Dude has the perfect size, gets like like 22 and 7, and is only 26!
He also won't cost a fortune in assets or require an over pay. That's like finding magic beans in this day and age.
He'd have to duck down a little. Cool off and be a follower in the clubhouse. Other wise he'd clash really bad with some of ours.
JJ might be a good influence on his hot headed bs.
Does he overlap too much with Nesmith, who deserves (close to) starter's minutes?
Would we need to trade pieces away?
Could he defend some of the top competition? What's his wingspan? How's his lateral movement?
Would taking a back seat blunt his usefulness? Does he have to dominate the ball? How's his movement and flow within an offense?
We don't require a boy scout, we have that covered. We need another dawg.
For all the flaws is there anyone possible that is even close to as good all around?
DeRosen? He wont get the boards and D will he? Costs more and is old...
Paul George but...harder to get, twice the expense. Old prima donna. Still have the sand to D up hard? Durable?
Jimmy Butler? Another tough get. Seems like a big risk. Hot as Miles, more expensive, and not a back seat guy at all. Maybe injury prone now as well.
I don't know if there is anyone else good enough to put us back into contention.
If not one of these we may as well hope Pascal ages like a fine wine, and let Walker try to morph into OG2.
Not real optimistic on that timeline, and Ty's hungry now.

[JMaster5K]

Fit, availability, money, age...all seem to point at Miles Bridges. Dude has the perfect size, gets like like 22 and 7, and is only 26!
He also won't cost a fortune in assets or require an over pay. That's like finding magic beans in this day and age.
He'd have to duck down a little. Cool off and be a follower in the clubhouse. Other wise he'd clash really bad with some of ours.
JJ might be a good influence on his hot headed bs.
Does he overlap too much with Nesmith, who deserves (close to) starter's minutes?
Would we need to trade pieces away?
Could he defend some of the top competition? What's his wingspan? How's his lateral movement?
Would taking a back seat blunt his usefulness? Does he have to dominate the ball? How's his movement and flow within an offense?
We don't require a boy scout, we have that covered. We need another dawg.
For all the flaws is there anyone possible that is even close to as good all around?
DeRosen? He wont get the boards and D will he? Costs more and is old...
Paul George but...harder to get, twice the expense. Old prima donna. Still have the sand to D up hard? Durable?
Jimmy Butler? Another tough get. Seems like a big risk. Hot as Miles, more expensive, and not a back seat guy at all. Maybe injury prone now as well.
I don't know if there is anyone else good enough to put us back into contention.
If not one of these we may as well hope Pascal ages like a fine wine, and let Walker try to morph into OG2.
Not real optimistic on that timeline, and Ty's hungry now.

Agree. It's all about the trade-offs on both ends of the floor. Given how well that Nesmith has played on both ends, including his catch & shoot game; how well that Shep has improved on both ends of the floor; and how well Nembhard has been at running the offense, catch & shoot, and defending on-ball and off; I don't think I would trade any of them. They all still have growth in them.

Also appreciate your key point,... who we gonna get that fills that need at such a high level that we, as a team, become a contender?... and at what cost?

I'll take what we have right now,... we match up well with Milwaukee. We are probably even with NYK (they might have a small advantage). We are chasing Boston,... but who isn't? o0

[JeffFosters]

Ok I’ve gone and watched some of the Dallas and OkC series and Dallas repeatedly cheated off Dort to defend SGA and Williams. The trade idea is bad. My mental picture of Dort is quite different to the reality. Mathurin projects as a much better fit next to Hali for multiple reasons.

Looks like it was actually me in the Dorture chamber.

We've all been there at some point,...

Shooters shoot

[JeffFosters]

Fit, availability, money, age...all seem to point at Miles Bridges. Dude has the perfect size, gets like like 22 and 7, and is only 26!

I dont think Simon would sign off on Bridges. It’s a good group with good chemistry, adding someone with that baggage carries serious risk. Also not sure how the signing would play in the community.

[Wizop]

I'm okay running back the wings for now. there will be time at the deadline to see if Walker or KBrown can defend wings. I think we must have talked to Stix' and Obi's agents and have an idea whether we need t draft or sign a big.

[Scoot McGroot]

Fit, availability, money, age...all seem to point at Miles Bridges. Dude has the perfect size, gets like like 22 and 7, and is only 26!

I dont think Simon would sign off on Bridges. It’s a good group with good chemistry, adding someone with that baggage carries serious risk. Also not sure how the signing would play in the community.

Bridges is a no for me, dawg.

It’d be one thing if it was a one off, but it’s been repeated events, and he’s shown no remorse or cared at all to improve himself.

[Solid]

Fit, availability, money, age...all seem to point at Miles Bridges. Dude has the perfect size, gets like like 22 and 7, and is only 26!

I dont think Simon would sign off on Bridges. It’s a good group with good chemistry, adding someone with that baggage carries serious risk. Also not sure how the signing would play in the community.

Bridges is a no for me, dawg.

It’d be one thing if it was a one off, but it’s been repeated events, and he’s shown no remorse or cared at all to improve himself.

Fine. But recognize that it can be effectively translated to:
I've decided his social score to low to admit his contributions. Since there no alternatives, we shall hold up our noses and relegate our best efforts and talent in a generation to also rans. We shall starve them of clearly available resources based on what we've read in the papers, about unrelated issues. We are not a people of forgiveness. A mistake in your twenties and you are dead to us. You may as well have sold her to the Taliban as far as we are concerned.
RIP team Haliburton et al. Be losers and like it.
Btw, he's not showed up at my house to beg forgiveness, but I've not had an agent stalking him so I'm not so confident as you that he's shown no remorse or intent on improvement. In fact I'd bet that is not true.

[JMaster5K]

I dont think Simon would sign off on Bridges. It’s a good group with good chemistry, adding someone with that baggage carries serious risk. Also not sure how the signing would play in the community.

Bridges is a no for me, dawg.

It’d be one thing if it was a one off, but it’s been repeated events, and he’s shown no remorse or cared at all to improve himself.

Fine. But recognize that it can be effectively translated to:
I've decided his social score to low to admit his contributions. Since there no alternatives, we shall hold up our noses and relegate our best efforts and talent in a generation to also rans. We shall starve them of clearly available resources based on what we've read in the papers, about unrelated issues. We are not a people of forgiveness. A mistake in your twenties and you are dead to us. You may as well have sold her to the Taliban as far as we are concerned.
RIP team Haliburton et al. Be losers and like it.
Btw, he's not showed up at my house to beg forgiveness, but I've not had an agent stalking him so I'm not so confident as you that he's shown no remorse or intent on improvement. In fact I'd bet that is not true.

For me,... his anger management issues do play a part. Right now, we have not just good, but amazing team chemistry. That is a very, very rare thing in any team. I'm not saying that I don't think he could be part of that, but I am saying, I would take extra caution in bringing in someone, anyone that has a history of upsetting team chemistry.

Did you see the interview from 2? 3 weeks ago, where Draymond admitted that his one punch,... threw off his, not just his teams, but his season completely. That for a couple of months he just didn't want to be around the team. He was too embarrassed to face them. Stayed away outside of practice & games,... built no chemistry & hurt the team,... and he had already been around most of them for years.

LIke it or not,... it is a factor when you consider bringing in someone with that history, and paying them 10's of millions.

For me,... the bigger reason that I wouldn't pursue Miles Bridges,... his game doesn't fit in Indy. He is an incredibly talented player. His game is at its best in an iso-heavy, attack the rim offense. He does pass the ball well,... but he is not a 'move around the perimeter to bend the defense, shooting off screens, setting screens for a ball handler' offensive player. He is a 'going to the rim, full speed, forcing the defense to react, then make the pass, or slam it', offensive player. He is ok,.. around average .349, catch & shoot 3 point shooter,.. but that's usually on a bailout from someone else attacking the rim.

There are a lot of teams that play the style of game he is good at,.. Charlotte plays that way,.. Detroit did until Monty - who knows what they will play this year? To a certain extent he would be a really good fit with Atlanta. The way Trae gets downhill, having Miles on the wing, with JJ as the opposite shooter, would be lethal.

He also generally does ok,.. but doesn't really excel as an off ball defender.

Also, he isn't actually the right size for Indy,.. he's got an 8'7" standing reach,... which puts him at the same length as Nesmith, Mathurin, Walker,... We could really use a combo forward that is big enough, length wise to cover 4's & the bigger 3's. Say,.. 8'10.5"+ standing reach,..

So,.. I don't think he really fits, basketball-wise. The other stuff just adds into it.

I do have to say,... immediately expecting that no one is allowed to be concerned or even say 'he is not for me' because of his actions,.. is just a bad as writing him off forever because of his actions. Both opposite ends of the same spectrum. I believe in second chances,... but I also believe there are consequences for your actions. Both can be true at the same time. If he did any of what has been reported,... then it's on him to deal with the consequences and make it right, and show to everyone that he isn't that guy any more,... before anyone else can be expected to treat him in a positive way.

[Scoot McGroot]

I dont think Simon would sign off on Bridges. It’s a good group with good chemistry, adding someone with that baggage carries serious risk. Also not sure how the signing would play in the community.

Bridges is a no for me, dawg.

It’d be one thing if it was a one off, but it’s been repeated events, and he’s shown no remorse or cared at all to improve himself.

Fine. But recognize that it can be effectively translated to:
I've decided his social score to low to admit his contributions. Since there no alternatives, we shall hold up our noses and relegate our best efforts and talent in a generation to also rans. We shall starve them of clearly available resources based on what we've read in the papers, about unrelated issues. We are not a people of forgiveness. A mistake in your twenties and you are dead to us. You may as well have sold her to the Taliban as far as we are concerned.
RIP team Haliburton et al. Be losers and like it.
Btw, he's not showed up at my house to beg forgiveness, but I've not had an agent stalking him so I'm not so confident as you that he's shown no remorse or intent on improvement. In fact I'd bet that is not true.

Nah, this is wild. You’re on your own there. No one said that junk, and you’ve conjured it out of thin air or whatever.

But, To be forgiven, you have to seek forgiveness. But even then, that doesn’t mean I have to trust that person with millions of dollars or a major role on my team. He's done nothing of the sort publicly, and resisted publicly admitting he even should.

Hes not the only option to improve the team. If you think it’s “we have to sign Miles Bridges or we should just trade everyone off and tank”, then maybe rethink your understanding of team building. Either way, Miles is a TERRIBLE defender and focused on offense only. He's a terrible fit for what Indy needs.

[Solid]

Love our chemistry and would not want to ruin it, but trust more in the critical mass of a good group. I think he's about two short interviews on some left wing whiny show pushing a carriage and holding hands from being all forgiven, but that crimes is not one that anyone wants to forgive these days. His crime was loss of self control by an immature guy. Maturation is a real thing. People often are sickened by their own mistakes and really become better. He wont GET that soft sell.
Yet we have a few hundred big names who seem to have been to Epstein Island dozens of times, likely boning children. Far worse crimes done maturely with forethought, and nobody cares to even take their names. We still see them in our faces every day. I can't stand the sight of some of them and what was the consequences of their actions? Pocket change to cover their trail.
Thanks for the b-ball assessment JMaster, that's what I was after.
So then it seems as if our big swing for Pascal was not as great as we had hoped. Placated Ty, made the playoffs, but no plausible short term path to contention, and long term a determent.
I was against that trade. It seemed premature. This is the result I feared. We lost Three firsts for a couple of fist pumps. We've climbed out of the basement, Hurrah.

[Solid]

Nah, this is wild. You’re on your own there. No one said that junk, and you’ve conjured it out of thin air or whatever.

But, To be forgiven, you have to seek forgiveness. But even then, that doesn’t mean I have to trust that person with millions of dollars or a major role on my team. He's done nothing of the sort publicly, and resisted publicly admitting he even should.

Hes not the only option to improve the team. If you think it’s “we have to sign Miles Bridges or we should just trade everyone off and tank”, then maybe rethink your understanding of team building. Either way, Miles is a TERRIBLE defender and focused on offense only. He's a terrible fit for what Indy needs.

My assessment is a fair practical analysis of what you said.
1. That he's not to be forgiven, which is not very Christian or generous of spirit.
2. That he's shown no remorse or made an improvement... things you can not know.
3. You offered no alternatives so can be presumed content in the camp of mediocrity over this.

I however did not say he was the only option. In fact I went through my limited understanding of them in a clear invitation for input (which was offered by others). It seems to me we can forgive... or forget contending. But I was hoping for other ideas.
I never said blow it up or get Bridges. You improperly put words in my mouth.
I invited others to show alternatives that could justify the large investment and hope we've so far demonstrated.
Your slander about my grasp of teambuilding was childish and uncalled for.
Now, you say he is "TERRIBLE" defender. At least that's responsive, but you are the first person I've heard that from, and I've seen others say he is a strong defender. A professor once told me "show, don't tell". It's a great insight I am happy to pass along.
I invite you again to offer good alternatives and explain, as others have done why and how he is unsuitable.
Try to so it in a more constructive, less pompous and abusive manner.
That would be great.

[Scoot McGroot]

Love our chemistry and would not want to ruin it, but trust more in the critical mass of a good group. I think he's about two short interviews on some left wing whiny show pushing a carriage and holding hands from being all forgiven, but that crimes is not one that anyone wants to forgive these days. His crime was loss of self control by an immature guy. Maturation is a real thing. People often are sickened by their own mistakes and really become better. He wont GET that soft sell.
Yet we have a few hundred big names who seem to have been to Epstein Island dozens of times, likely boning children. Far worse crimes done maturely with forethought, and nobody cares to even take their names. We still see them in our faces every day. I can't stand the sight of some of them and what was the consequences of their actions? Pocket change to cover their trail.

Hey man. Let’s keep these crazy right wing conspiracy theories or arguments against “cancelling people” Off the forums. But, it sounds like you’ve fallen deep into a hole, and maybe want to reconsider who you’re listening to or trusting.

Thanks for the b-ball assessment that's what I was after.

Yup! Bridges

So then it seems as if our big swing for Pascal was sort of childish. Placate Ty, make the playoffs, but not to build a contender and long term a determent.
I was against that trade. It seems premature. This is the result I feared. We lost Three firsts for a couple of fist pumps. We've climbed out of the basement, Hurrah.

What? It was a huge improvement for the long term at a position of great weakness. Why would that be just placating Ty or a deterrent to building a long term contender? Feels like the exact opposite?

Do you think that Bridges would have made us a real contender but Siakam doesn’t? That’s, unique. But yeah, climbing out of the basement into a playoff run is usually the first step necessary to then compete for the East and the finals. Very rarely do teams jump straight from out of the playoffs to winning a championship. There’s steps in between, and Siakam is a big one there.

Also, did you see the players drafted with two of those firsts? We gave up JaKobe Walter and Isaiah Collier, and one protected future first. I’m really ok with that.