are the Knicks LEGIT contenders?!

[bronxknicksfan1]

Yes, Celtics top end talent is easily better.
We have better defense and better offense.

Out players not only can play lock down defense, they can also score better and have more tools to attack. We have more creators as well and no one that can be exploited defensively

Brunson > Jrue
White > OG
Brown >>> Bridges
Tatum >> Randle
KP >>>>> Robinson

If you’re going to do this with the comparison, at least do it right. This looks bias as hell. Especially if you’re giving >>> to everyone, but only slightly for Brunson > Jrue. Brunson is way better than him rn

Brunson vs Tatum is the top end talent. Tatum is more talented, but Brunson has been the better playoff performer these last 2 years and had the better season recently. I’d call that a wash.

Randle vs Brown is next. Brown is better defensively while Randle is the better rebounder and passer. Around equal as a scorer. I’d call this a wash as well.

Mikal/OG vs White/Jrue. Mikal/OG are the more versatile defenders. White/Jrue are more capable offensive options. Depending on the build on your team is who you go with here.

Mitch vs KP. They’re a wash when it comes to durability and defense. Both elite defenders that can’t stay on the floor. KP is an elite shooter and much better offensive option. Mitch is the much better rebounder. This one should go easily to the Celtics.

Hart/Divo/McBride/iHart(?) vs Pritchard/Hauser/Horford. I’m taking the Knicks depth here pretty easily. Boston could definitely get another wing to close the gap here with their depth there, but as it stands, the Knicks bench has potential to be amongst the best in the league.

The right way --

Brunson > Jrue
Bridges < White
OG < Brown
Randle < Tatum
Mitch < KP
Bench ≈ Bench
Thibs < Mazz
Rosas < Stevens

Knicks <<< Celtics

Brunson > Jrue
Bridges > White
OG < Brown
Randle < Tatum
Mitch < KP
Knicks’ bench > Celtics bench
Thibs = Mazzulla
Rose > Stevens

[brackdan70]

Until the Bucks show they’re a capable defensive team, I wouldn’t put them above the Knicks.

Lopez may be a better offensive option than any of the Knicks bigs had, but they are 100x better than him on the boards. That matters a lot out of C.

100x. Ok

Mitch - 19.2% TRB
iHart - 18.5% TRB
Lopez - 9.3% TRB

100x is clearly an exaggeration. Each of them being twice as good would suffice.

Portis and Giannis also grab rebounds.
Lopez stretches the floor so who ever is guarding him will get fewer rebounds than normal.
It’s fair to say NY is great rebounding team and better than the Bucks, but it’s not a game changing difference.
I hope all teams are healthy so we can see how it shakes out for real.

[R-DAWG]

Yes, Celtics top end talent is easily better.
We have better defense and better offense.

Out players not only can play lock down defense, they can also score better and have more tools to attack. We have more creators as well and no one that can be exploited defensively

Brunson > Jrue
White > OG
Brown >>> Bridges
Tatum >> Randle
KP >>>>> Robinson

If you’re going to do this with the comparison, at least do it right. This looks bias as hell. Especially if you’re giving >>> to everyone, but only slightly for Brunson > Jrue. Brunson is way better than him rn

Brunson vs Tatum is the top end talent. Tatum is more talented, but Brunson has been the better playoff performer these last 2 years and had the better season recently. I’d call that a wash.

Randle vs Brown is next. Brown is better defensively while Randle is the better rebounder and passer. Around equal as a scorer. I’d call this a wash as well.

Mikal/OG vs White/Jrue. Mikal/OG are the more versatile defenders. White/Jrue are more capable offensive options. Depending on the build on your team is who you go with here.

Mitch vs KP. They’re a wash when it comes to durability and defense. Both elite defenders that can’t stay on the floor. KP is an elite shooter and much better offensive option. Mitch is the much better rebounder. This one should go easily to the Celtics.

Hart/Divo/McBride/iHart(?) vs Pritchard/Hauser/Horford. I’m taking the Knicks depth here pretty easily. Boston could definitely get another wing to close the gap here with their depth there, but as it stands, the Knicks bench has potential to be amongst the best in the league.

The right way --

Brunson > Jrue
Bridges < White
OG < Brown
Randle < Tatum
Mitch < KP
Bench ≈ Bench
Thibs < Mazz
Rosas < Stevens

Knicks <<< Celtics

I don't think it's fair to say White is better than Bridges. I think it's a toss up.

Where the Celtics have the advantage is that White is the clear #4 whereas Bridges might have to be the number 2. I think the Knicks bench is better than the Celtics bench

I would break it down like this:

Tier 1: Brunson, Tatum, Brown - Brown being the clear #3 here and it's a toss up between Brunson/Tatum

Tier 2 : Holiday

Tier 3: Randle

Tier 4: OG, Bridges, White, Porzingis

Boston has a stronger top 2 and top 6, Knicks have more depth

Celtics are a better team and would be favored in the series. But NY has a real chance to beat them in a series.

[ryan in Maine]

If you’re going to do this with the comparison, at least do it right. This looks bias as hell. Especially if you’re giving >>> to everyone, but only slightly for Brunson > Jrue. Brunson is way better than him rn

Brunson vs Tatum is the top end talent. Tatum is more talented, but Brunson has been the better playoff performer these last 2 years and had the better season recently. I’d call that a wash.

Randle vs Brown is next. Brown is better defensively while Randle is the better rebounder and passer. Around equal as a scorer. I’d call this a wash as well.

Mikal/OG vs White/Jrue. Mikal/OG are the more versatile defenders. White/Jrue are more capable offensive options. Depending on the build on your team is who you go with here.

Mitch vs KP. They’re a wash when it comes to durability and defense. Both elite defenders that can’t stay on the floor. KP is an elite shooter and much better offensive option. Mitch is the much better rebounder. This one should go easily to the Celtics.

Hart/Divo/McBride/iHart(?) vs Pritchard/Hauser/Horford. I’m taking the Knicks depth here pretty easily. Boston could definitely get another wing to close the gap here with their depth there, but as it stands, the Knicks bench has potential to be amongst the best in the league.

The right way --

Brunson > Jrue
Bridges < White
OG < Brown
Randle < Tatum
Mitch < KP
Bench ≈ Bench
Thibs < Mazz
Rosas < Stevens

Knicks <<< Celtics

Brunson > Jrue
Bridges > White
OG < Brown
Randle < Tatum
Mitch < KP
Knicks’ bench > Celtics bench
Thibs = Mazzulla
Rose > Stevens

Now we're getting somewhere haha

[bronxknicksfan1]

100x. Ok

Mitch - 19.2% TRB
iHart - 18.5% TRB
Lopez - 9.3% TRB

100x is clearly an exaggeration. Each of them being twice as good would suffice.

Portis and Giannis also grab rebounds.
Lopez stretches the floor so who ever is guarding him will get fewer rebounds than normal.
It’s fair to say NY is great rebounding team and better than the Bucks, but it’s not a game changing difference.
I hope all teams are healthy so we can see how it shakes out for real.

Thing is, the Knicks make sure that it is a game changing difference. There can be plenty of better options than Mitch and iHart offensively, but they won’t outwork them on the boards. They are amongst the best offensive rebounders in the league, giving the team multiple 2nd chance opportunities to score. It’s especially important in the playoffs against elite defenses. There’s a reason why the team that won the rebounding battle had a higher winning percentage.

Hopefully iHart re-signs, so we can see what the matchup will look like next season.

[watpho71]

The Knicks are doing it right by moving aggressive within the window they have presented themselves to compete for a title. Max deals don't always seem perfect until you win that coveted ring and then all is forgiven and all is acceptable.

[ryan in Maine]

If you’re going to do this with the comparison, at least do it right. This looks bias as hell. Especially if you’re giving >>> to everyone, but only slightly for Brunson > Jrue. Brunson is way better than him rn

Brunson vs Tatum is the top end talent. Tatum is more talented, but Brunson has been the better playoff performer these last 2 years and had the better season recently. I’d call that a wash.

Randle vs Brown is next. Brown is better defensively while Randle is the better rebounder and passer. Around equal as a scorer. I’d call this a wash as well.

Mikal/OG vs White/Jrue. Mikal/OG are the more versatile defenders. White/Jrue are more capable offensive options. Depending on the build on your team is who you go with here.

Mitch vs KP. They’re a wash when it comes to durability and defense. Both elite defenders that can’t stay on the floor. KP is an elite shooter and much better offensive option. Mitch is the much better rebounder. This one should go easily to the Celtics.

Hart/Divo/McBride/iHart(?) vs Pritchard/Hauser/Horford. I’m taking the Knicks depth here pretty easily. Boston could definitely get another wing to close the gap here with their depth there, but as it stands, the Knicks bench has potential to be amongst the best in the league.

The right way --

Brunson > Jrue
Bridges < White
OG < Brown
Randle < Tatum
Mitch < KP
Bench ≈ Bench
Thibs < Mazz
Rosas < Stevens

Knicks <<< Celtics

I don't think it's fair to say White is better than Bridges. I think it's a toss up.

Where the Celtics have the advantage is that White is the clear #4 whereas Bridges might have to be the number 2. I think the Knicks bench is better than the Celtics bench

I would break it down like this:

Tier 1: Brunson, Tatum, Brown - Brown being the clear #3 here and it's a toss up between Brunson/Tatum

Tier 2 : Holiday

Tier 3: Randle

Tier 4: OG, Bridges, White, Porzingis

Boston has a stronger top 2 and top 6, Knicks have more depth

Celtics are a better team and would be favored in the series. But NY has a real chance to beat them in a series.

You know it occurs to me that the Knicks are a legit likeable team now. Not just talent but character as well.

[bronxknicksfan1]

The right way --

Brunson > Jrue
Bridges < White
OG < Brown
Randle < Tatum
Mitch < KP
Bench ≈ Bench
Thibs < Mazz
Rosas < Stevens

Knicks <<< Celtics

Brunson > Jrue
Bridges > White
OG < Brown
Randle < Tatum
Mitch < KP
Knicks’ bench > Celtics bench
Thibs = Mazzulla
Rose > Stevens

Now we're getting somewhere haha

Everyone is rightfully giving the Celtics their respect coming off a chip.

Just seeing the Knicks getting slept on when this is probably the one matchup that can challenge the Celtics next season.

[DarkXaero]

I have it this way:

Brunson>Jrue
Mikal>White
OG<Brown
Randle<Tatum
Mitch<KP

Knicks Bench>Celtics Bench

Brunson has been the better playoff performer, but Tatum is the best player between the two teams and impacts the game in more ways. Jaylen Brown is playing at a higher level than whoever can be considered the 2nd best player on the Knicks (whether that's Randle or Mikal). Also important to note that Celtics have two elite guard defenders to use against Brunson and of course Knicks have elite wing defenders to use against Brown & Tatum. Knicks have the depth advantage with Hart, Donte & McBride off the bench but I'm not sure how much this ends up mattering with Thibs loving short rotations. With Knicks likely to lose Hartenstein, Celtics have a big advantage with their bigs. Mazulla is the better coach than Thibs.

It's advantage Celtics comfortably for me still, assuming they're healthy (worth noting that KP surgery announced today).

[ryan in Maine]

Brunson > Jrue
Bridges > White
OG < Brown
Randle < Tatum
Mitch < KP
Knicks’ bench > Celtics bench
Thibs = Mazzulla
Rose > Stevens

Now we're getting somewhere haha

Everyone is rightfully giving the Celtics their respect coming off a chip.

Just seeing the Knicks getting slept on when this is probably the one matchup that can challenge the Celtics next season.

Honestly I'm thankful to rekindle the rivalry. Iirc we're pretty close in postseason wins.

[R-DAWG]

I have it this way:

Brunson>Jrue
Mikal>White
OG<Brown
Randle<Tatum
Mitch<KP

Knicks Bench>Celtics Bench

Brunson has been the better playoff performer, but Tatum is the best player between the two teams and impacts the game in more ways. Jaylen Brown is playing at a higher level than whoever can be considered the 2nd best player on the Knicks (whether that's Randle or Mikal). Also important to note that Celtics have two elite guard defenders to use against Brunson and of course Knicks have elite wing defenders to use against Brown & Tatum. Knicks have the depth advantage with Hart, Donte & McBride off the bench but I'm not sure how much this ends up mattering with Thibs loving short rotations. With Knicks likely to lose Hartenstein, Celtics have a big advantage with their bigs. Mazulla is the better coach than Thibs.

It's advantage Celtics comfortably for me still, assuming they're healthy (worth noting that KP surgery announced today).

It will be a fun series for sure.

And let's be honest here - I can see the Knicks having the better regular season record especially with Porzingis missing the first 30-40 games and Boston's need to load mange Al (vs Thibs coaching every regular season game like it's game 7 of the playoffs).

I have been very critical of the Knicks this week, but if you told me game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals between the Knicks and the Celtics in late May of 2025 was taking place at Madison Square Garden, it wouldn't be overly surprising.

[bronxknicksfan1]

If you’re going to do this with the comparison, at least do it right. This looks bias as hell. Especially if you’re giving >>> to everyone, but only slightly for Brunson > Jrue. Brunson is way better than him rn

Brunson vs Tatum is the top end talent. Tatum is more talented, but Brunson has been the better playoff performer these last 2 years and had the better season recently. I’d call that a wash.

Randle vs Brown is next. Brown is better defensively while Randle is the better rebounder and passer. Around equal as a scorer. I’d call this a wash as well.

Mikal/OG vs White/Jrue. Mikal/OG are the more versatile defenders. White/Jrue are more capable offensive options. Depending on the build on your team is who you go with here.

Mitch vs KP. They’re a wash when it comes to durability and defense. Both elite defenders that can’t stay on the floor. KP is an elite shooter and much better offensive option. Mitch is the much better rebounder. This one should go easily to the Celtics.

Hart/Divo/McBride/iHart(?) vs Pritchard/Hauser/Horford. I’m taking the Knicks depth here pretty easily. Boston could definitely get another wing to close the gap here with their depth there, but as it stands, the Knicks bench has potential to be amongst the best in the league.

The right way --

Brunson > Jrue
Bridges < White
OG < Brown
Randle < Tatum
Mitch < KP
Bench ≈ Bench
Thibs < Mazz
Rosas < Stevens

Knicks <<< Celtics

I don't think it's fair to say White is better than Bridges. I think it's a toss up.

Where the Celtics have the advantage is that White is the clear #4 whereas Bridges might have to be the number 2. I think the Knicks bench is better than the Celtics bench

I would break it down like this:

Tier 1: Brunson, Tatum, Brown - Brown being the clear #3 here and it's a toss up between Brunson/Tatum

Tier 2 : Holiday

Tier 3: Randle

Tier 4: OG, Bridges, White, Porzingis

Boston has a stronger top 2 and top 6, Knicks have more depth

Celtics are a better team and would be favored in the series. But NY has a real chance to beat them in a series.

I’m sorry. Jrue is tier 2?

He’s absolutely not better than Randle. He’s not better than half the players in tier 4 either. He’s the 5th option in Boston. Only one he has an argument over in that 4th tier is OG and I’d rather have OG’s defensive versatility over Jrue’s.

[R-DAWG]

The right way --

Brunson > Jrue
Bridges < White
OG < Brown
Randle < Tatum
Mitch < KP
Bench ≈ Bench
Thibs < Mazz
Rosas < Stevens

Knicks <<< Celtics

I don't think it's fair to say White is better than Bridges. I think it's a toss up.

Where the Celtics have the advantage is that White is the clear #4 whereas Bridges might have to be the number 2. I think the Knicks bench is better than the Celtics bench

I would break it down like this:

Tier 1: Brunson, Tatum, Brown - Brown being the clear #3 here and it's a toss up between Brunson/Tatum

Tier 2 : Holiday

Tier 3: Randle

Tier 4: OG, Bridges, White, Porzingis

Boston has a stronger top 2 and top 6, Knicks have more depth

Celtics are a better team and would be favored in the series. But NY has a real chance to beat them in a series.

I’m sorry. Jrue is tier 2?

He’s absolutely not better than Randle. He’s not better than half the players in tier 4 either. He’s the 5th option in Boston. Only one he has an argument over in that 4th tier is OG and I’d rather have OG’s defensive versatility over Jrue’s.

Jrue is a better offensive player than any of the Tier 4 guys and just as good as a defender. I put Jrue a tier above Randle because I think he's better in his role than Randle is at his role. But you can make an argument that both Randle and Jrue are in the same tier. But I also think Boston fans will argue that the best version of Porzingis is better than the best version of Randle.

[ShootersShoot]

So top 5 MVP candidate Brunson didn’t have a better season than Tatum?

Randle isn’t a better passer and rebounder than Brown while being an equal scorer?

Objectively speaking, all numbers indicate this to be true.

Brunson was better than Tatum this past season.

Brown is better than Randle, by a significant margin at this point.

Even if Brown is better than Randle, which he isn’t, it’s absolutely not by a significant margin.

The main difference is that Brown defends his position better than randle does. Brown also steps up in the playoffs whereas historically randle has not.

Offensively, Brown is more efficient overall. Randle hasn't had a eFG% as good as brown did this past season in 5 seasons. Randle wasn't even on the knicks at the time. Brown's last five years eFG% is 55.2%. Randle's in the past five seasons is 50.5%.. Brown's TS the past five seasons is 58%, Randle's is 55%..

I'm not sure there is a GM out there that would take Randle over Brown as a second option.

[bronxknicksfan1]

I don't think it's fair to say White is better than Bridges. I think it's a toss up.

Where the Celtics have the advantage is that White is the clear #4 whereas Bridges might have to be the number 2. I think the Knicks bench is better than the Celtics bench

I would break it down like this:

Tier 1: Brunson, Tatum, Brown - Brown being the clear #3 here and it's a toss up between Brunson/Tatum

Tier 2 : Holiday

Tier 3: Randle

Tier 4: OG, Bridges, White, Porzingis

Boston has a stronger top 2 and top 6, Knicks have more depth

Celtics are a better team and would be favored in the series. But NY has a real chance to beat them in a series.

I’m sorry. Jrue is tier 2?

He’s absolutely not better than Randle. He’s not better than half the players in tier 4 either. He’s the 5th option in Boston. Only one he has an argument over in that 4th tier is OG and I’d rather have OG’s defensive versatility over Jrue’s.

Jrue is a better offensive player than any of the Tier 4 guys and just as good as a defender. I put Jrue a tier above Randle because I think he's better in his role than Randle is at his role. But you can make an argument that both Randle and Jrue are in the same tier. But I also think Boston fans will argue that the best version of Porzingis is better than the best version of Randle.

Jrue is NOT a better offensive option than any of those guys. He’s not better than White or KP. He’s not better than Mikal. The only one you can put him over is OG.

And Jrue gets moved up because he’s better at his role?! Okay

I get you hate the direction the team is going, but these takes are just wrong.

[bronxknicksfan1]

Brunson was better than Tatum this past season.

Brown is better than Randle, by a significant margin at this point.

Even if Brown is better than Randle, which he isn’t, it’s absolutely not by a significant margin.

The main difference is that Brown defends his position better than randle does. Brown also steps up in the playoffs whereas historically randle has not.

Offensively, Brown is more efficient overall. Randle hasn't had a eFG% as good as brown did this past season in 5 seasons. Randle wasn't even on the knicks at the time. Brown's last five years eFG% is 55.2%. Randle's in the past five seasons is 50.5%.. Brown's TS the past five seasons is 58%, Randle's is 55%..

I'm not sure there is a GM out there that would take Randle over Brown as a second option.

The last 2 seasons have been their best seasons.

Over the past 2 seasons:
Jaylen Brown
25/6/4 on 58% TS BPM 1.0 PER 18.9

Julius Randle
25/10/4 on 58% TS BPM 3.2 PER 19.8

Brown is a better defensive player. But he’s never carried an offense the way Julius did in 2020-21. They’re a wash to me. I can understand anyone taking Brown over him, but the gap is not big between these 2, if there is one.

[ShootersShoot]

Even if Brown is better than Randle, which he isn’t, it’s absolutely not by a significant margin.

The main difference is that Brown defends his position better than randle does. Brown also steps up in the playoffs whereas historically randle has not.

Offensively, Brown is more efficient overall. Randle hasn't had a eFG% as good as brown did this past season in 5 seasons. Randle wasn't even on the knicks at the time. Brown's last five years eFG% is 55.2%. Randle's in the past five seasons is 50.5%.. Brown's TS the past five seasons is 58%, Randle's is 55%..

I'm not sure there is a GM out there that would take Randle over Brown as a second option.

The last 2 seasons have been their best seasons.

Over the past 2 seasons:
Jaylen Brown
25/6/4 on 58% TS BPM 1.0 PER 18.9

Julius Randle
25/10/4 on 58% TS BPM 3.2 PER 19.8

Brown is a better defensive player. But he’s never carried an offense the way Julius did in 2020-21. They’re a wash to me. I can understand anyone taking Brown over him, but the gap is not big between these 2, if there is one.

Ive actually thought randle was underrated even going back to his pelican days. For me, he is too inefficient in regards to efg% to put him over brown. I do think his role as #2 on the knicks is ideal for him playing next to og and mikal. Seems like a good fit.

The people saying the knicks are better without him dont know what they are talking about. He got the knicks into the playoffs as the first option 20/21 as the 4th seed with a 20 yr old rj barrett as the second option. Randle has his weaknesses (who doesnt?) but he is clearly not a negative player.

[TheHartBreakKid]

I've been an NBA fan since 2001. I've seen the Knicks jeopardize their future for half ass pretender teams too many times. But I actually think this team could make some noise, especially considering the current NBA climate and how wide open everything is. Let's see how they gel, but I really their balance/depth/fit, and if someone was to call them the second best team in the east, I wouldn't have a problem with that, and I suppose that makes them contenders.

[brackdan70]

Mitch - 19.2% TRB
iHart - 18.5% TRB
Lopez - 9.3% TRB

100x is clearly an exaggeration. Each of them being twice as good would suffice.

Portis and Giannis also grab rebounds.
Lopez stretches the floor so who ever is guarding him will get fewer rebounds than normal.
It’s fair to say NY is great rebounding team and better than the Bucks, but it’s not a game changing difference.
I hope all teams are healthy so we can see how it shakes out for real.

Thing is, the Knicks make sure that it is a game changing difference. There can be plenty of better options than Mitch and iHart offensively, but they won’t outwork them on the boards. They are amongst the best offensive rebounders in the league, giving the team multiple 2nd chance opportunities to score. It’s especially important in the playoffs against elite defenses. There’s a reason why the team that won the rebounding battle had a higher winning percentage.

Hopefully iHart re-signs, so we can see what the matchup will look like next season.

IHart is almost certainly gone. Whether hard capped at the first or second apron, he’d have to take a huge discount.

[R-DAWG]

Even if Brown is better than Randle, which he isn’t, it’s absolutely not by a significant margin.

The main difference is that Brown defends his position better than randle does. Brown also steps up in the playoffs whereas historically randle has not.

Offensively, Brown is more efficient overall. Randle hasn't had a eFG% as good as brown did this past season in 5 seasons. Randle wasn't even on the knicks at the time. Brown's last five years eFG% is 55.2%. Randle's in the past five seasons is 50.5%.. Brown's TS the past five seasons is 58%, Randle's is 55%..

I'm not sure there is a GM out there that would take Randle over Brown as a second option.

The last 2 seasons have been their best seasons.

Over the past 2 seasons:
Jaylen Brown
25/6/4 on 58% TS BPM 1.0 PER 18.9

Julius Randle
25/10/4 on 58% TS BPM 3.2 PER 19.8

Brown is a better defensive player. But he’s never carried an offense the way Julius did in 2020-21. They’re a wash to me. I can understand anyone taking Brown over him, but the gap is not big between these 2, if there is one.

If the Knicks had Brown instead of Randle, they would be the favorites to win the NBA Championship

If the Celtics had Randle instead of Brown, they wouldn't be favored to win the conference.