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2024 Off-Season

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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#381 » by Wizop » Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:09 pm

Solid wrote:I was against that trade. It seemed premature. This is the result I feared. We lost Three firsts for a couple of fist pumps. We've climbed out of the basement, Hurrah.


this may be the all time glass half empty post. sure, we gave up two low firsts this year but say we kept them and replaced Doug and JJ, how much PT do you think the guys who went where we would have picked would've gotten? I think we have more than enough guys who are still developing so in a very real way we're having our cake and eating it too.

maybe I should qualify this by adding that I've never been a boom and bust believer. some call it treadmilling but I'd be quite satisfied if we just are starting another 20 year stretch of playoff appearances.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#382 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:09 pm

Solid wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Solid wrote:


My assessment is a fair practical analysis of what you said.
1. That he's not to be forgiven, which is not very Christian or generous of spirit.
2. That he's shown no remorse or made an improvement... things you can not know.
3. You offered no alternatives so can be presumed content in the camp of mediocrity over this.

I however did not say he was the only option. In fact I went through my limited understanding of them in a clear invitation for input (which was offered by others). It seems to me we can forgive... or forget contending. But I was hoping for other ideas.
I never said blow it up or get Bridges. You improperly put words in my mouth.
I invited others to show alternatives that could justify the large investment and hope we've so far demonstrated.
Your slander about my grasp of teambuilding was childish and uncalled for.
Now, you say he is "TERRIBLE" defender. At least that's responsive. but you are the first person I've heard that from, and I've seen others say he is a strong defender.
I invite you again to offer good alternatives and explain, as others have done why and how he is unsuitable.
Try to so it in a more constructive, less pompous and abusive manner.
That would be great.


I think you might be projecting here. And you might want to work on your reading comprehension, because if you think that I said any of the things in the top there, you’re not very good at it.


As for demanding suggestions? Well, take a look at the thousands and millions of posts on this forum. We’ve been talking suggestions all day every day for years. That’s what this place is. You don’t get to come in, make a “Agree with me or you’re a ….” Type comment and then command others of what to do.


Maybe take a step back and take a deep breath. We love to talk Pacers here and we all want them to win. We just have different thoughts on how to get three. And that’s ok. You’re not lesser for suggesting Bridges. I’m not lesser for saying I hate the idea. And no one else has to do the legwork anyone else commands of them. It’s a discussion forum for basketball. :dontknow:
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#383 » by Solid » Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:12 pm

My feeling was that Pascal was a nice swing, but we were not ready and not likely to BE ready until he'd lost a step. I would have not made such a move without a wink from OG or PG. Not having a clear path to fill our other weaknesses makes the first move seem again premature and costly.
without a huge stroke of luck, like PD signing cheap, I now see us struggling to get even as far as we now already have.
Another stroke of luck would be, as I said waiting for Walker to equal OG and Mathurin to become a lot more like J Brown or D Mitchell. I don't think either of those are impossible, yet if that happens Pascal will be a 40mill back up and Myles may be too expensive to have kept.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#384 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:24 pm

I wouldn’t call growth and improvement from Walker/Mathurin/Nembhard/Sheppard as a stroke of luck though. If they turn into all nba players, yeah, that’s a stroke of luck. But we got NOTHING from
Walker last year. Mathurin, Nembhard and Sheppard gave us stuff but are still young to the nba and are going to offer us more than they did last year. And they’re going to take minutes that, last year, we’re occupied by Buddy/McDermott, Jalen, and even Obi. We’re going to get a full season of massively improved play at the PF spot from Siakam instead of Obi. And Haliburton is even going to continue to get better.

There will be improvement, even if the team only ends up being a 2nd round team instead of 3rd round. Mostly, I think Indy, as is, showed they can be tough with the best of the best. They beat Milwaukee with Giannis/Dame. They beat NY with Brunson on an all time heater. There’s reason to believe that Indy can grow and continue to compete with them.

And even then, there were reports from Brian Windhorst that Indy is actively scouring the market to get additional help for next year. Chad/KP will be active and opportunistic.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#385 » by Solid » Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:30 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Solid wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:




I think you might be projecting here. And you might want to work on your reading comprehension, because if you think that I said any of the things in the top there, you’re not very good at it.

As for demanding suggestions? Well, take a look at the thousands and millions of posts on this forum. We’ve been talking suggestions all day every day for years. That’s what this place is. You don’t get to come in, make a “Agree with me or you’re a ….” Type comment and then command others of what to do.

Maybe take a step back and take a deep breath. We love to talk Pacers here and we all want them to win. We just have different thoughts on how to get three. And that’s ok. You’re not lesser for suggesting Bridges. I’m not lesser for saying I hate the idea. And no one else has to do the legwork anyone else commands of them. It’s a discussion forum for basketball. :dontknow:


I've taken upper level graduate classes reading books with prefaces you'd never get past. So on that latest slur, feel free to piss off.
Plumbing your depths is not particularly challenging. My reading was a bit cheeky, but more or less accurate, and you can not but pretend otherwise.
Again you misstate me so it seems it's YOUR reading skill could use a buff. I did not say "agree with me or your an ass". But one could well say you have MERELY disagreed, offered nothing but abuse, and so shown your ass.
I commanded nothing. I asked for help accessing, from those here that I expect know far better. As far as I can tell that's a pretty good use of this forum.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#386 » by Solid » Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:47 pm

Wizop wrote: we gave up two low firsts this year but say we kept them and replaced Doug and JJ, how much PT do you think the guys who went where we would have picked would've gotten? I think we have more than enough guys who are still developing so in a very real way we're having our cake and eating it too.
maybe I should qualify this by adding that I've never been a boom and bust believer. some call it treadmilling but I'd be quite satisfied if we just are starting another 20 year stretch of playoff appearances.

Fair enough. I don't think trading for Pascal was horrible. He's a fine player and gives us much better chance to have a team we can cheer for. That is worth something.
But we gave up three 1sts right? Three chances at guys in hopes that maybe one will be as good as Pascal... when we need them.
It's the timing I don't like. I see us as two years away. By then we now need to have our youngsters be really good and Pascal to remain a near all-star. Seems optimistic, but optimism is not a terrible thing.
I think "in for a penny in for a pound". I'm not thrilled with giving up three firsts and then hoping to get out of the first round.
This now is our window, and where are the pieces we need NOW to contend? Can we even point to possibilities?
That was my question. ...and will we take another big swing to get them?
Again I'm cautious so I would not unless it was a fair deal for a really strong player. those are very scarce, especially after yesterday. Our competitor gobbled them up.
So this window feels closed already, without a big stoke of luck. And the real window, in two-three years ...will maybe have Pascal as a mid thirties back up, and us three 1sts short.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#387 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:50 pm

Solid wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:
Solid wrote:


I think you might be projecting here. And you might want to work on your reading comprehension, because if you think that I said any of the things in the top there, you’re not very good at it.

As for demanding suggestions? Well, take a look at the thousands and millions of posts on this forum. We’ve been talking suggestions all day every day for years. That’s what this place is. You don’t get to come in, make a “Agree with me or you’re a ….” Type comment and then command others of what to do.

Maybe take a step back and take a deep breath. We love to talk Pacers here and we all want them to win. We just have different thoughts on how to get three. And that’s ok. You’re not lesser for suggesting Bridges. I’m not lesser for saying I hate the idea. And no one else has to do the legwork anyone else commands of them. It’s a discussion forum for basketball. :dontknow:


I've taken upper level graduate classes reading books with prefaces you'd never get past. So on that latest slur, feel free to piss off.


I definitely did not insult your intelligence. I said that you absolutely misunderstood what was written by myself and other, whether willfully or of ignorance. Only you know. Because no one wrote what you think they wrote, and it’s concerning you feel so strongly that we did.

Plumbing your depths is not particularly challenging. My reading was a bit cheeky, but more or less accurate, and you can not but pretend otherwise.
Again you misstate me so it seems it's YOUR reading skill could use a buff. I did not say "agree with me or your an ass". But one could well say you have MERELY disagreed, offered nothing but abuse, and so shown your ass.


Definitely not accurate. If you think it is, I wonder from what viewpoint you’re reading from that you would infer that.

I also have not offered abuse in any way. Why would you think that disagreeing with you is abuse?

I commanded nothing. I asked for help accessing, from those here that I expect know far better. As far as I can tell that's a pretty good use of this forum.



I see. You seem to wish you’ve been insulted where your not, and to imagine words in others thoughts where they did not exist. Fair, honest discussion is very difficult when that aggrieved position is asserted.

Best of luck. Go Pacers.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#388 » by Solid » Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:52 pm

I'll leave it Scoot. We'll just disagree. But I detract not a word.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#389 » by Scoot McGroot » Thu Jun 27, 2024 4:54 pm

Solid wrote:I'll leave it Scoot. We'll just disagree. But I detract not a word.


Best of luck. Go Pacers.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#390 » by Wizop » Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:01 pm

Solid wrote: Seems optimistic, but optimism is not a terrible thing.


I write most summers that if you aren't optimistic in the summer you aren't a true fan(atic). I do admit to being over-optimistic most summers but actually I can easily see us falling back into the play-in this year. it isn't easy to identify a team that was ahead of us this year that we'll overtake and a healthy Philly could pass us.

but let's pause this argument for a week and see what the draft gives us and who we re-sign.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#391 » by Solid » Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:01 pm

Go Pacers...
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#392 » by Helsbyte » Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:02 pm

At the end of the day it matters not what we think of Miles Bridges. If Pritchard goes to Haliburton and the team and they are cool with it then I would expect us to pursue him. If anyone says no then it's dead in the water.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#393 » by Wizop » Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:05 pm

Helsbyte wrote:At the end of the day it matters not what we think of Miles Bridges. If Pritchard goes to Haliburton and the team and they are cool with it then I would expect us to pursue him. If anyone says no then it's dead in the water.


I think the players would rally around AA and Benn and argue against demoting them.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#394 » by Solid » Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:16 pm

Wizop wrote:I write most summers that if you aren't optimistic in the summer you aren't a true fan(atic). I do admit to being over-optimistic most summers but actually I can easily see us falling back into the play-in this year. it isn't easy to identify a team that was ahead of us this year that we'll overtake and a healthy Philly could pass us.
but let's pause this argument for a week and see what the draft gives us and who we re-sign.


Resigning is not going to get us past the Knicks.
I fully expect us to be significantly better. We were close to the Celts as is and have two lottery picks in the wings.
But now...we hope our adversary can't resign their center.
We really needed badly to sign one of those forwards yesterday.
But I would not have given all those picks for Bridges. Was hoping for OG.
Best course woulda been aim for about 2026 or '27when Celts and Knicks will be over their crest and our young ones matured.
We were well set up but too impatient. imo.
Trying to be optimistic. One happy note is that getting kicked around in the payoffs can be a real growth factor for young talent and all the extra games Pascal gets for us should be worth a middling first or two. We can chalk up the third as the cost to give us the fun of watching them.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#395 » by Wizop » Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:33 pm

Solid wrote:We can chalk up the third as the cost to give us the fun of watching them.


thanks for that. it really clarified my own thinking about being the kind of team that goes all in knowing it will collapse in coming seasons and why "treadmilling" doesn't upset me. I was really happy with the almost 30 years of winning records at home even though we only got to the finals once. why? because the teams were fun to watch. having a team that's fun to watch satisfies me.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#396 » by Netaman » Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:39 pm

Nets fan here in peace curious how you guys view Cam Johnson and what you'd be willing to give up? He seems like a pretty good counter move to the Knicks add Bridges. Would think he will hit a lot of open 3's with Siakam/Haliburton gravity and he's a pretty good defender. 3 years 68m left.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#397 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:47 pm

Netaman wrote:Nets fan here in peace curious how you guys view Cam Johnson and what you'd be willing to give up? He seems like a pretty good counter move to the Knicks add Bridges. Would think he will hit a lot of open 3's with Siakam/Haliburton gravity and he's a pretty good defender. 3 years 68m left.


It’s really hard to match salaries. Like, we’d have to include both Nesmith and McConnell to make a trade work, and I just think Indy would value them more than Cam right now. And, we’re looking at Jarace Walker stepping into a similar 3/4 type role that Cam would have here, and he’ll need those minutes to develop.

I’m assuming you’re seeing the Matt Moore report, and I think he’s too credulously reporting things without looking at the actual likelihood of something happening. :dontknow:
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#398 » by Wizop » Fri Jun 28, 2024 3:48 pm

Netaman wrote:Nets fan here in peace curious how you guys view Cam Johnson and what you'd be willing to give up? He seems like a pretty good counter move to the Knicks add Bridges. Would think he will hit a lot of open 3's with Siakam/Haliburton gravity and he's a pretty good defender. 3 years 68m left.


If we're able to re-sign Obi, I can't see it as Cam would block the development of Walker and Furphy. But if the market for Obi (and perhaps Stix) explodes, a sign and trade could be discussed.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#399 » by Scoot McGroot » Fri Jun 28, 2024 3:54 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=61&t=4P34sFh22Otrr6CybjJQ_g


Not unexpected.
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Re: 2024 Off-Season 

Post#400 » by JMaster5K » Fri Jun 28, 2024 4:14 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=61&t=4P34sFh22Otrr6CybjJQ_g


Not unexpected.



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