The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

[KdoubleDees23]

Nurkic , Little S&T for Tyus Jones with a new contract with him

[Puff]

Folks are going to hate it by I can see a return of Eubanks. I also am worried about Bol Bol.

Is Monday the day we can start offering contracts to free agents?

Even though our minimum free agents did not turn out as planned last year I think we did do a good job of being aggressive while trying to fill our weaknesses. Hopefully we are equally as aggressive this year, just with a better choices in players.

[KdoubleDees23]

Whatever the Suns can do to get Tyus Jones and Kessler or Valanciunas!!! That would be great!

Jones
Booker
Allen
KD
Kessler or Valanciunas

Thats a way better team, and have Beal as 6th man.

[They_Them_Hatin]

I loved the draft. They’ll get a pg. They addressed 2 huge issues in the draft. Like what more could they have done in a weak draft with 1 pick in the 20s? In the west, you need size at the wings. They drafted my favorite two wing prospects in our range.

Only thing that will make this off season better for me if the Lakers continue their clown show & take Beal off our hands. Probably one of the only teams he’ll waive his no trade clause for.

[dremill24]

Is the idea signing Okogie for more money to potentially trade him combined with another player? Or can the Suns not combine his salary, let's say with Nurkic at the trade deadline to get someone like Brook Lopez or Jakob Poeltl?

We can't combine him with anyone in a trade due to the 2nd apron rules. I really want to see Dunn get his minutes.

We need a PG and Big more than Okogie.

Only the Suns know their plans, but they could use Early Bird rights to give him up to ~12 or 13mil (I think?). Dont think anybody would be interested in taking him on that salary for more than one year though. But if he signs a 1yr deal, he has to approve a trade. If he signs for less, he doesnt return much incoming salary. If you're signing him to trade him, the best path might be some early bird number for 2yrs with a non guarantee for the 2nd year. Or just work out a contract with the intention of keeping him at the end of the rotation and use some salary above the minimum to get a leg up on other suitors.

[They_Them_Hatin]

Not necessarily gone. I believe the Suns retain his early bird rights so they can sign for about $10M. Obviously an overpay but the Suns can keep him if they want to.

That's a good point.

I want him back. I wanted Eric Gordon too. I understand that Eric Gordon out probably is good for him and the Suns but it's tough to get decent veteran players for the minimum.

We will know more about it soon, hopefully we can work something with Okogie.

We don't need him. Dunn is our stopper now. He's better anyway....probably as bad on offense as well lol.

Saves us a little money too.

I’m not sure how this dumb new CBA works but if the Suns can sign him for a front loaded contract in year 1 then unguaranteed in year 2, they should.

[bwgood77]

Kyle Lowry?

Chris Paul?

Kris Dunn?

Would love if we got Lowry AND Dunn. But with our roster, Lowry, followed by Dunn out of the 3. Paul won't want to come back here. He obviously was pissed at Ish (and IT).

I was thinking Lowry was done earlier but he had better #s than I thought, but am not sure how well he would hold up so if we could get Dunn for the future and he is a better defensive PG.

I was looking at a possible Little for McBride trade but I don't think the salaries match and I am not sure we can take two players back (like Jericho Sims). We'd have to throw in a second or two to do that though. McBride a lot better than Little.


Also, isn't Payne a FA? If so, I'd be really happy to get him back. Not sure we could get him for a minimum contract though. Lowry and Dunn might get more than the minimum as well.

I want Dunn but I feel like some team will give him more than the min to keep him away from us. I doubt Paul wouldn’t want to come back. Suns are his best chances at winning a ring & getting playing time.

Paul's pretty much done. I'm sure for the minimum, at this point, he'd rather play in LA. Booker and KD tried to recruit Beal, knowing Paul would be traded for him. Paul obviously knows this. I don't think Paul would want to play here. He already badmouthed Ish. I doubt Ish wants him back anyway.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Wait didn't someone say some execs/scouts loved what they saw of his shooting in workouts?

This doesn't vibe

Sure, scouts say all sorts of stuff and shooting in a workout isn't really terribly important...we always hear about guys hitting a ton of 3s in a row, etc.

It also could have just been smoke too...people saying this to hope raise his stock so their own target would fall, etc.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Wait didn't someone say some execs/scouts loved what they saw of his shooting in workouts?

This doesn't vibe

You do of course understand that shooting drills in the draft combine and team workouts are two different contexts situationally right? I mean for some players/ prospects they perform better in live game style situations or team drills and others in individual combine shooting drills situationally.

So it's absolutely plausible that in certain situations, Dunn could've performed better than in others. I see no reason why nba teams would choose to fabricate such statements on how his workouts were perceived by numerous teams. And the report game from Jonathan Givony by the way who is a draft Scout but has no horses in this race or no allegiances to any specific prospects.

And measuring him against others where you expect him to come in last, is different than measuring your expectations for him against how he does. Maybe he made 4 out of 10 3s in drills and hit 70% of his free throws. We know he struggles in games shooting and is very very hesitant to shoot and wants to just pass immediately so we will see.

[bwgood77]

Wait didn't someone say some execs/scouts loved what they saw of his shooting in workouts?

This doesn't vibe

You do of course understand that shooting drills in the draft combine and team workouts are two different contexts situationally right? I mean for some players/ prospects they perform better in live game style situations or team drills and others in individual combine shooting drills situationally.

So it's absolutely plausible that in certain situations, Dunn could've performed better than in others. I see no reason why nba teams would choose to fabricate such statements on how his workouts were perceived by numerous teams. And the report game from Jonathan Givony by the way who is a draft Scout but has no horses in this race or no allegiances to any specific prospects.

Just sounds like gamesmanship from these execs who got a private look. When it was for everyone to see, he stunk. Not just bad but literally worst in class. Execs could say anything and Givony is just reporting what he was told.

There will probably be 15-20 guys in this class who stick. Maybe 4-5 starters, 10 rotation guys and more end of the bench guys, some that teams hang onto too long. So finishing THAT low for someone you expect to contribute now is concerning. Less concerning with a big who will play inside, but concerning for him too.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

So they traded Gobert and got a cheap replacement who is as almost as good as a rim protector but now Jazz are open to trade him.

Why?

Seems like a good kid.

Ainge looking for a small ball type Center or something. Someone a young Horford perhaps.

I'm curious about why too. Maybe Ainge sees the west and is looking really long term. But it does seem odd. He's younger than most of the rest of their core and Markkanen, unless they are planning on trading him too.

[bwgood77]

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't? I guess we'll find out more soon enough on/ after July 12th.

I hope you're right

I'm pretty confident that in a reasonable amount of time, the people who are low key lambasting Dunn for his weaknesses will come to love this kid as a fan favorite for his great humble personality, driven nature, relentless motor and underlying elite abilities that will swing multiple games for us to wins when our offense struggles at times but he completely locks down the opposition allowing us to still come out with a win!

I believe he'll help us steal around 4-6 additional wins just by virtue of his elite suffocating defense allowing us to better maintain our leads and walk out with wins on rough nights. Ighodaro too on a slightly smaller scale with his elite passing and energy.

The 28th pick will swing 4-6 wins? lol. That ranks between Mikal Bridges and Lauri Markannen if we're talking win shares. Dunn will be exciting but people in game threads and watching almost 95% care about offense. It will be interesting, but I don't see him playing too many minutes unless it's simply by default because with Gordon, Okogie, and others leaving we just have horrible minimum guys.

I suppose he should be KD's backup but I would be cautiously optimistic.

[bwgood77]

I'm not a huge Okogie fan but we need to fill out this roster with legit NBA talent. He may not be that good but he's at least a 10th man. I don't care if he makes a little more than the minimum. Not my money.

[Ghost of Kleine]

With Kris Dunn most likely resigning in Utah at more money than we could offer, and Lowry likely resigning in Philly ( Philly native) too, my point guard contingency plan would be around:

1- Chris Paul
I'd pursue Chris paul for a return here. Sell him on a much better opportunity to compete for a championship with us than with either the Flakers or the paper Clips.

2- Dennis Smith Jr
He's still very solid and a plus POA defender too. We could offer him a bigger role in a better situation with us.

3- RJ Nembhard Jr ( G league)
Nembhard has great size at 6'5, a gritty mentality, is a polished scorer and playmaker. And is a great crafty ballhandler with good athleticism and cerebral processing.

4- Delon Wright.
Wright would be a solid backup utility defensive guard that could get the job done and do some low usage playmaking for us. I don't have him listed higher because he's just not as dynamic as the other guards on our list.

5- Cam Payne.
Payne is my last option on this list because even though he's got familiarity with this franchise, his game is just so inconsistent and unpredictable to be able to fully rely on him throughout an entire season. He's pretty hit or miss.

[Fo-Real]

With Kris Dunn most likely resigning in Utah at more money than we could offer, and Lowry likely resigning in Philly ( Philly native) too, my point guard contingency plan would be around:

1- Chris Paul
I'd pursue Chris paul for a return here. Sell him on a much better opportunity to compete for a championship with us than with either the Flakers or the paper Clips.

2- Dennis Smith Jr
He's still very solid and a plus POA defender too. We could offer him a bigger role in a better situation with us.

3- RJ Nembhard Jr ( G league)
Nembhard has great size at 6'5, a gritty mentality, is a polished scorer and playmaker. And is a great crafty ballhandler with good athleticism and cerebral processing.

4- Delon Wright.
Wright would be a solid backup utility defensive guard that could get the job done and do some low usage playmaking for us. I don't have him listed higher because he's just not as dynamic as the other guards on our list.

5- Cam Payne.
Payne is my last option on this list because even though he's got familiarity with this franchise, his game is just so inconsistent and unpredictable to be able to fully rely on him throughout an entire season. He's pretty hit or miss.

I guess Cam needs to stop getting arrested in Scottsdale and suit up!

[bwgood77]

With Kris Dunn most likely resigning in Utah at more money than we could offer, and Lowry likely resigning in Philly ( Philly native) too, my point guard contingency plan would be around:

1- Chris Paul
I'd pursue Chris paul for a return here. Sell him on a much better opportunity to compete for a championship with us than with either the Flakers or the paper Clips.

2- Dennis Smith Jr
He's still very solid and a plus POA defender too. We could offer him a bigger role in a better situation with us.

3- RJ Nembhard Jr ( G league)
Nembhard has great size at 6'5, a gritty mentality, is a polished scorer and playmaker. And is a great crafty ballhandler with good athleticism and cerebral processing.

4- Delon Wright.
Wright would be a solid backup utility defensive guard that could get the job done and do some low usage playmaking for us. I don't have him listed higher because he's just not as dynamic as the other guards on our list.

5- Cam Payne.
Payne is my last option on this list because even though he's got familiarity with this franchise, his game is just so inconsistent and unpredictable to be able to fully rely on him throughout an entire season. He's pretty hit or miss.

My ranking would probably be the exact opposite. Though I'd put Kyle Lowry in there near the top of my list.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I hope you're right

I'm pretty confident that in a reasonable amount of time, the people who are low key lambasting Dunn for his weaknesses will come to love this kid as a fan favorite for his great humble personality, driven nature, relentless motor and underlying elite abilities that will swing multiple games for us to wins when our offense struggles at times but he completely locks down the opposition allowing us to still come out with a win!

I believe he'll help us steal around 4-6 additional wins just by virtue of his elite suffocating defense allowing us to better maintain our leads and walk out with wins on rough nights. Ighodaro too on a slightly smaller scale with his elite passing and energy.

The 28th pick will swing 4-6 wins? lol. That ranks between Mikal Bridges and Lauri Markannen if we're talking win shares. Dunn will be exciting but people in game threads and watching almost 95% care about offense. It will be interesting, but I don't see him playing too many minutes unless it's simply by default because with Gordon, Okogie, and others leaving we just have horrible minimum guys.

I suppose he should be KD's backup but I would be cautiously optimistic.

The 28th pick will swing 4-6 wins? lol.

Sure! What's so hard to comprehend about that possibility honestly? It's not like all of our games will be wins or losses by large margins now is it. There'll clearly be plenty of wins and losses with the outcome determined by a matter of a few points!


And having an elite lockdown defensive stopper such as Dunn could easily help stop or at the very least significantly slow down the opposing teams best scorers, which in turn could very easily help us keep leads rather than giving them up so frequently.

Also there will clearly be numerous games decided by a single possession or two wherein getting key defensive stops help us win a game by simply stopping the other team from scoring and allowing us to steal games that we otherwise wouldn't have won when our shooting or offense struggles. It's really not some difficult calculus to figure out man.

Defensive stops can win games too.

Yeah! People care about offense for sure! And we've tried that one sided narrow minded approach. By the way, how did that work out for us in the postseason? And remind me how the Timberwolves became so dominant? How did they beat us? Because it sure wasn't by outscoring us consistently nor was it by destroying us from three either!

Honestly, how did the Celtics dominate the Mavs and shut down/ limit Luka and Kyrie again? Games are not won on one side of the court alone. Offense is great and fun to watch too. But to win at the highest levels you need both!!

Why would he need to play significant minutes to be impactful for us, or to swing the outcomes of games? He'll only need to limit the opposing teams top scorers, blow up offensive schemes and frustrate the opposition in specific matchups and in games when our big three or offense in general sputters. All things he can do and is already elite at! And all things that our roster severely lacks!

Okogie is a solid defender for sure. But he's nowhere near the level of being able to do what Dunn can/ will be able to do for us on that end. For example, when he was tasked with stopping or even slowing down Jamal Murray, he got cooked by Murray. Dunn can effectively guard, slow down and even possibly shut down ANT, Murray, Lebron, Harden, Morant, Kwahi, etc etc.

Lastly, why in the world would Dunn need to be Kds' backup? When we'll have other options for that and Dunn will be best served as an elite lockdown defensive SF that'll roam the passing lanes, offer strong weakside recovery rim protection, Phelps switch and lockdown the perimeter and blow up pick n roll and drop coverage plays by the opposition.

I said he could help steal/ swing 4-6 games (with his elite defensiveplay) , and I'm sticking to it man! Whether you and others can envision that or not is of no consequence to me. As I'm very confident in my assessment. Let's for sure revisit this in a number of months if you and others still have so much doubt k.

[Ghost of Kleine]

With Kris Dunn most likely resigning in Utah at more money than we could offer, and Lowry likely resigning in Philly ( Philly native) too, my point guard contingency plan would be around:

1- Chris Paul
I'd pursue Chris paul for a return here. Sell him on a much better opportunity to compete for a championship with us than with either the Flakers or the paper Clips.

2- Dennis Smith Jr
He's still very solid and a plus POA defender too. We could offer him a bigger role in a better situation with us.

3- RJ Nembhard Jr ( G league)
Nembhard has great size at 6'5, a gritty mentality, is a polished scorer and playmaker. And is a great crafty ballhandler with good athleticism and cerebral processing.

4- Delon Wright.
Wright would be a solid backup utility defensive guard that could get the job done and do some low usage playmaking for us. I don't have him listed higher because he's just not as dynamic as the other guards on our list.

5- Cam Payne.
Payne is my last option on this list because even though he's got familiarity with this franchise, his game is just so inconsistent and unpredictable to be able to fully rely on him throughout an entire season. He's pretty hit or miss.

My ranking would probably be the exact opposite. Though I'd put Kyle Lowry in there near the top of my list.

To each their own I guess.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

So they traded Gobert and got a cheap replacement who is as almost as good as a rim protector but now Jazz are open to trade him.

Why?

Seems like a good kid.

Ainge looking for a small ball type Center or something. Someone a young Horford perhaps.

I'm curious about why too. Maybe Ainge sees the west and is looking really long term. But it does seem odd. He's younger than most of the rest of their core and Markkanen, unless they are planning on trading him too.

There was an article that came out suggesting that Ainge was frustrated by Kesslers' stagnation in his 2nd year. And decided that he wanted a more modern floor spacing center option to try and open up the floor more for Collins and Markannen to excel.

Regardless, I don't care too much the reason as Kesslers' value to us as a backup 5 to Nurkic offering a different dynamic would be significant. And if the comparison can ge made which I believe it can, in the right situation, Kessler could project along the lines of a younger less polished version of Brook Lopez.

[Ghost of Kleine]

You do of course understand that shooting drills in the draft combine and team workouts are two different contexts situationally right? I mean for some players/ prospects they perform better in live game style situations or team drills and others in individual combine shooting drills situationally.

So it's absolutely plausible that in certain situations, Dunn could've performed better than in others. I see no reason why nba teams would choose to fabricate such statements on how his workouts were perceived by numerous teams. And the report game from Jonathan Givony by the way who is a draft Scout but has no horses in this race or no allegiances to any specific prospects.

Just sounds like gamesmanship from these execs who got a private look. When it was for everyone to see, he stunk. Not just bad but literally worst in class. Execs could say anything and Givony is just reporting what he was told.

There will probably be 15-20 guys in this class who stick. Maybe 4-5 starters, 10 rotation guys and more end of the bench guys, some that teams hang onto too long. So finishing THAT low for someone you expect to contribute now is concerning. Less concerning with a big who will play inside, but concerning for him too.

But you guys keep trying to box him into this theoretical two way offensive role in order to validate value and impact when the reality with Dunn is that his offense will be a very minimal determinant in his overall value and impact to us. So he didn't shoot great in a shooting drill.

Really........ So what! Everyone already realizes the weakness in his game and what areas he needs to work on to get much better! WE DIDN'T DRAFT HIM WITH THE EXPECTATIONS FOR HIM TO BE SOME OFFENSIVE WEAPON FOR US OR SOME KNOCKDOWN SHOOTER IN TIME EITHER!!! You guys really just need to come to terms with the fact that we drafted him because he's an elite defender! Like potentially a generational defender and our roster has never had a player like this before.

Our front office realizes Dunns' value is his incredible elite defensive abilities that he'll bring to our mediocre defense. They also understand that it's entirely unreasonable to ask a 36 yr old Durant to try and be a defensive anchor for us. And that Okogie is a good defender but nowhere near elite enough to effectively operate as a lockdown defensive stopper for us.

His shot will improve enough whether all of you Dunn detractors choose to realize it or not. But until then, he'll absolutely prove his value by significantly affecting games defensively for us and blowing up opposing offenses for us as well. The shooting will be a dramatic bonus as it develops.