Build a Franchise (Season 8) Discussion Thread- Announcement on page 87

[ezmoney707]

I sent in a proposal as well and it might kinda go hand and hand with Cap’s but here’s mine

Proposal:
Draft picks, rights, non exempt

Teams should be able to keep the rights to draft picks 1st and 2nd regardless of roster space if player goes un-drafted in real life or is drafted and stashed in real life, these players would not count on the exempt roster.

[I’m confused by the above paragraph. I can be a bit slow sometimes, so can you break it down for me?]

Players could go into a new section called draft rights, and these contracts would not count against the team until they are signed to a real life NBA roster, salary can still be listed so teams trading for the rights to these players know the salary that would come into effect if player were to be signed to an NBA roster.

Lastly 2nd round picks should be non guaranteed and be able to cut up until the trade deadline or set deadline in season. I believe that would help not penalize teams for multiple draft picks in the 2nd round, that may have to eat that salary if player doesn’t become an NBA player or if they need roster spots, that would allow them to cut non guaranteed salaries to do so.

[I strongly agree with making 2nd round picks non-guaranteed with the ability to waive them prior to the trade deadline. That would really increase the value of 2nd’s.]

These changes kind of overlap and I’m not even sure how they would affect the sim, I’m open to adjustments by you and the rest of the GMs

Currently players that were drafted in BAF but ended up not being drafted in real life. There are also players that have been drafted in real life but stashed overseas.

As it’s currently constructed those players rights are still retained by each team under the exempt players section and they also cost towards your cap to certain extent (I know you’re more well versed in the exempt contracts than I am )

I’m proposing they don’t count at all towards your cap if they aren’t in the NBA, and simply just draft rights or draft and stash players, which would save cap space until players are signed in real life.

If I’m interpreting the rule wrong please correct me , but that’s what I essentially meant in the above

[Depalma2002]

I sent in a proposal as well and it might kinda go hand and hand with Cap’s but here’s mine

Proposal:
Draft picks, rights, non exempt

Teams should be able to keep the rights to draft picks 1st and 2nd regardless of roster space if player goes un-drafted in real life or is drafted and stashed in real life, these players would not count on the exempt roster

I would vote for that as far as 2nd round picks but on 1st round picks, unless a 1st round player is signed outside of the NBA, I think they should need to be signed. The Euro stashes are still covered by EL rules. As far as other 1st round picks go, I think our current rules of sign by the deadline or they become a free agent is more realistic and we already allow the extra 10% over the cap if not used on bird rights to be used to sign picks.

I sent in a proposal as well and it might kinda go hand and hand with Cap’s but here’s mine

Proposal:
Lastly 2nd round picks should be non guaranteed and be able to cut up until the trade deadline or set deadline in season. I believe that would help not penalize teams for multiple draft picks in the 2nd round, that may have to eat that salary if player doesn’t become an NBA player or if they need roster spots, that would allow them to cut non guaranteed salaries to do so.

While I agree that the guaranteed salaries of 2nd round picks in BAF is a little harsher than in the NBA. However, this is offset a bit by the extremely cheap ability to extend those that hit. In the real NBA, if a 2nd rounder becomes a starter, he isn't extending at the rate of an end of the bench scrub like in BAF. He is going to demand an extension fitting a starter or go into restricted free agency to get paid.

I don't like taking away the risk of making second round picks and leaving the outside reward in place. If we are not guaranteeing 2nd round picks then I think we need to cut out the ability to extend at well below market prices.

I'd be more in favor of being able to place up to 3 2nd round picks signed instead to a two-way contract and even be open to that first year not counting against the cap (but burning a year of service). Like NBA, two-way guys are not eligible for the playoffs. Unlike the NBA where two way guys can play a set number of games, I think we should just leave them like the EL list. I don't want to add tracking the number of games of two-way players to bish's plate.

[TerrenceClarke]

All submitted trades were legal? Wow, that’s quite impressive. Just shows that veteran GM’s have become more savvy with the years of experience. And the newer GM’s have adapted quickly.

BaF going strong!

That’s what’s happens when people are trying to build teams that can hang with the Grizz.

[Context]

The New Orleans Pelicans have acquired Dejounte Murray from the Atlanta Hawks for two first round picks, Larry Nance Jr. and Dyson Daniels.

The Pelicans will send the Los Angeles Lakers' first round pick in 2025, plus the least favorable 2027 first round pick between the Pelicans and the Milwaukee Bucks. The Pelicans deferred their acceptance of a first round pick from the Lakers in this year's draft to receive it in 2025.

[Capn'O]

I'd be more in favor of being able to place up to 3 2nd round picks signed instead to a two-way contract and even be open to that first year not counting against the cap (but burning a year of service). Like NBA, two-way guys are not eligible for the playoffs. Unlike the NBA where two way guys can play a set number of games, I think we should just leave them like the EL list. I don't want to add tracking the number of games of two-way players to bish's plate.

Regarding these comments - this is why I think just expanding the roster/IR is a no-brainer. Its beauty is its simplicity. Maybe one of the IR spots becomes non-playoff eligible.

[Capn'O]

The New Orleans Pelicans have acquired Dejounte Murray from the Atlanta Hawks for two first round picks, Larry Nance Jr. and Dyson Daniels.

The Pelicans will send the Los Angeles Lakers' first round pick in 2025, plus the least favorable 2027 first round pick between the Pelicans and the Milwaukee Bucks. The Pelicans deferred their acceptance of a first round pick from the Lakers in this year's draft to receive it in 2025.

Oooooh, it's a real trade.

That's really surprising.

[2010]

I sent in a proposal as well and it might kinda go hand and hand with Cap’s but here’s mine

Proposal:
Draft picks, rights, non exempt

Teams should be able to keep the rights to draft picks 1st and 2nd regardless of roster space if player goes un-drafted in real life or is drafted and stashed in real life, these players would not count on the exempt roster.

[I’m confused by the above paragraph. I can be a bit slow sometimes, so can you break it down for me?]

Players could go into a new section called draft rights, and these contracts would not count against the team until they are signed to a real life NBA roster, salary can still be listed so teams trading for the rights to these players know the salary that would come into effect if player were to be signed to an NBA roster.

Lastly 2nd round picks should be non guaranteed and be able to cut up until the trade deadline or set deadline in season. I believe that would help not penalize teams for multiple draft picks in the 2nd round, that may have to eat that salary if player doesn’t become an NBA player or if they need roster spots, that would allow them to cut non guaranteed salaries to do so.

[I strongly agree with making 2nd round picks non-guaranteed with the ability to waive them prior to the trade deadline. That would really increase the value of 2nd’s.]

These changes kind of overlap and I’m not even sure how they would affect the sim, I’m open to adjustments by you and the rest of the GMs

I think it's like this:

I draft Player A
Player A does not get drafted/signed
Player A goes to a new list called Draft Rights - this does not count against the cap like exempt players do.
You can then bring Player A up if/when they do get signed


I'm not as in to this one. I think, the combo of creating a new roster slot and then make 2nd rounders non-guaranteed ups the value of 2nds substantially.

Yeah, I’d probably vote against that aspect. Cuz if a player drafted in the 2nd round doesn’t get drafted/signed IRL he’d be a non-guaranteed BaF contract anyway, under the new rule proposal.

And if the player was drafted in the 1st round of the BaF Draft, then the contract should absolutely be guaranteed and if he doesn’t end up on an NBA team, the EL designation would suffice.

[2010]

All submitted trades were legal? Wow, that’s quite impressive. Just shows that veteran GM’s have become more savvy with the years of experience. And the newer GM’s have adapted quickly.

BaF going strong!

That’s what’s happens when people are trying to build teams that can hang with the Grizz.

[2010]

I sent in a proposal as well and it might kinda go hand and hand with Cap’s but here’s mine

Proposal:
Draft picks, rights, non exempt

Teams should be able to keep the rights to draft picks 1st and 2nd regardless of roster space if player goes un-drafted in real life or is drafted and stashed in real life, these players would not count on the exempt roster.

[I’m confused by the above paragraph. I can be a bit slow sometimes, so can you break it down for me?]

Players could go into a new section called draft rights, and these contracts would not count against the team until they are signed to a real life NBA roster, salary can still be listed so teams trading for the rights to these players know the salary that would come into effect if player were to be signed to an NBA roster.

Lastly 2nd round picks should be non guaranteed and be able to cut up until the trade deadline or set deadline in season. I believe that would help not penalize teams for multiple draft picks in the 2nd round, that may have to eat that salary if player doesn’t become an NBA player or if they need roster spots, that would allow them to cut non guaranteed salaries to do so.

[I strongly agree with making 2nd round picks non-guaranteed with the ability to waive them prior to the trade deadline. That would really increase the value of 2nd’s.]

These changes kind of overlap and I’m not even sure how they would affect the sim, I’m open to adjustments by you and the rest of the GMs

Currently players that were drafted in BAF but ended up not being drafted in real life. There are also players that have been drafted in real life but stashed overseas.

As it’s currently constructed those players rights are still retained by each team under the exempt players section and they also cost towards your cap to certain extent (I know you’re more well versed in the exempt contracts than I am )

I’m proposing they don’t count at all towards your cap if they aren’t in the NBA, and simply just draft rights or draft and stash players, which would save cap space until players are signed in real life.

If I’m interpreting the rule wrong please correct me , but that’s what I essentially meant in the above

I think where I’m at with it would be:

• 2nd round picks would become non-guaranteed contracts able to be waived and not count against the cap as long as they are waived before the BaF trade deadline

• 2nd round picks would no longer be extension eligibile

• Roster spots would be increased to 17 players, with 2 of those players ineligible for the BaF playoff roster

[TerrenceClarke]

Currently players that were drafted in BAF but ended up not being drafted in real life. There are also players that have been drafted in real life but stashed overseas.

As it’s currently constructed those players rights are still retained by each team under the exempt players section and they also cost towards your cap to certain extent (I know you’re more well versed in the exempt contracts than I am )

I’m proposing they don’t count at all towards your cap if they aren’t in the NBA, and simply just draft rights or draft and stash players, which would save cap space until players are signed in real life.

If I’m interpreting the rule wrong please correct me , but that’s what I essentially meant in the above

I think where I’m at with it would be:

• 2nd round picks would become non-guaranteed contracts able to be waived and not count against the cap as long as they are waived before the BaF trade deadline

• 2nd round picks would no longer be extension eligibile

• Roster spots would be increased to 17 players, with 2 of those players ineligible for the BaF playoff roster

Why would not want second round picks to be extension eligible ?

[Depalma2002]

Currently players that were drafted in BAF but ended up not being drafted in real life. There are also players that have been drafted in real life but stashed overseas.

As it’s currently constructed those players rights are still retained by each team under the exempt players section and they also cost towards your cap to certain extent (I know you’re more well versed in the exempt contracts than I am )

I’m proposing they don’t count at all towards your cap if they aren’t in the NBA, and simply just draft rights or draft and stash players, which would save cap space until players are signed in real life.

If I’m interpreting the rule wrong please correct me , but that’s what I essentially meant in the above

I think where I’m at with it would be:

• 2nd round picks would become non-guaranteed contracts able to be waived and not count against the cap as long as they are waived before the BaF trade deadline

• 2nd round picks would no longer be extension eligibile

• Roster spots would be increased to 17 players, with 2 of those players ineligible for the BaF playoff roster

Why would not want second round picks to be extension eligible ?

A trade off for not having to guarantee the 2nd rounders. If you have both someone could just pick up a slew of 2nd rounders. If they don't pan out, you don't even waste a roster spot. If they do pan out you lock up a good player for $3-$18 long-term. That's boosting the value of 2nd rounders way to high. That's extremely high reward for absolutely no risk. A trade off is needed if we want to reduce the risk of 2nd rounders to 0. Right now there is a moderate risk of 2nd rounders (higher than IRL) but there is also high reward (much higher than IRL). If you want lower risk we need to lower the reward, IMHO. We'd be swinging the pendulum too far in the opposite direction.

[TerrenceClarke]

I think where I’m at with it would be:

• 2nd round picks would become non-guaranteed contracts able to be waived and not count against the cap as long as they are waived before the BaF trade deadline

• 2nd round picks would no longer be extension eligibile

• Roster spots would be increased to 17 players, with 2 of those players ineligible for the BaF playoff roster

Why would not want second round picks to be extension eligible ?

A trade off for not having to guarantee the 2nd rounders. If you have both someone could just pick up a slew of 2nd rounders. If they don't pan out, you don't even waste a roster spot. If they do pan out you lock up a good player for $3-$18 long-term. That's boosting the value of 2nd rounders way to high. A trade off is needed if we want to reduce the risk of 2nd rounders to 0.

So if I reading this right, you want to reduce the risk to zero while also having less control long term?

[bishnykfan]

I don't know how to keep track of two way contracts in this game. Each time in the sim I would have to waive the player going off the roster and sign the player coming onto it. This may create salary cap issues with the sim eventually. We can put a "two way" slot onto the team pages but I don't see how to incorporate it into the game.

Plus, there is already so much movement between trades, roster moves, and lineup changes, I will be up front on this, I am not all that interested in bringing in two way slots which will allow teams to move players on and off their active rosters daily. Each night it already takes me over an hour to change lineups and strategies and then sim and post the games. Adding potentially more moves nightly is not something I'd be excited about.

To answer a few other points I've seen on here, players who go undrafted in real life do not need to be signed in BAF. These players are EL eligible and teams are able to keep their rights without using a roster spot. I also agree with DePalma's take on second round picks. Second round pick salaries are generally considerably lower than second rounders in the NBA. While it is true that second rounders in BAF are guaranteed contracts, an extension for a second rounder is ridiculously cheap. In BAF, second rounders are lotto tickets, most won't hit and some teams don't value or even want them at all. But this is not really different then the NBA. There were 19 trades in the last week where second round picks were traded. There were also three more second rounders whose draft rights were traded post draft. Some teams will value these picks, some won't. If you make second round picks non-guaranteed, then there should not be an ability to extend them. Having the ability to extend a player who has a cheaper than real NBA contract to begin with (which now has no risk due to it being unguaranteed) for far less than what is realistic, does not help this game in my opinion.

I would be ok with something along the lines of a team who makes their own second round pick can "stash" that pick on a special list that does not count against the cap assuming that player is not on an NBA roster to start the NBA season.

[bishnykfan]

I'd be more in favor of being able to place up to 3 2nd round picks signed instead to a two-way contract and even be open to that first year not counting against the cap (but burning a year of service). Like NBA, two-way guys are not eligible for the playoffs. Unlike the NBA where two way guys can play a set number of games, I think we should just leave them like the EL list. I don't want to add tracking the number of games of two-way players to bish's plate.

Regarding these comments - this is why I think just expanding the roster/IR is a no-brainer. Its beauty is its simplicity. Maybe one of the IR spots becomes non-playoff eligible.

When you say "roster/IR" do you mean changing the roster from 15 players to 16+?

I would not have a problem with that if that's what the majority of teams wanted to do but I think those extra players should count against the cap. I could be swayed to say each team can have one designated second round pick be "exempt" from the cap and just be stash guy for a season, not counting against the cap or 15 man roster.

[bishnykfan]

Currently players that were drafted in BAF but ended up not being drafted in real life. There are also players that have been drafted in real life but stashed overseas.

As it’s currently constructed those players rights are still retained by each team under the exempt players section and they also cost towards your cap to certain extent (I know you’re more well versed in the exempt contracts than I am )

I’m proposing they don’t count at all towards your cap if they aren’t in the NBA, and simply just draft rights or draft and stash players, which would save cap space until players are signed in real life.

If I’m interpreting the rule wrong please correct me , but that’s what I essentially meant in the above

I think where I’m at with it would be:

• 2nd round picks would become non-guaranteed contracts able to be waived and not count against the cap as long as they are waived before the BaF trade deadline

• 2nd round picks would no longer be extension eligibile

• Roster spots would be increased to 17 players, with 2 of those players ineligible for the BaF playoff roster

I honestly understand what you and ez and others are arguing for. I get that second rounders being guaranteed maybe a hardship for teams that are close to the cap and win now teams who won't want to spend more than a dollar or two for their 13-15 players. But I think that if you take away the ability to extend them, then they lose value to rebuilding teams. Why would a bad team drafting 31 pay $14 a year for 2-3 years without the ability to extend considering the sim generally runs a year behind? I think this would kill all value for picks 31-55 at the very least.

Currently, second rounders are lottery tickets. You hit on a pick in the 50s and you can have a player locked up for 5 years at less than 1% of the salary cap. Odds aren't good but they aren't good in the NBA either. Some teams will want the risk, others won't. That is one thing that makes the draft fun IMO.

[Capn'O]

I'd be more in favor of being able to place up to 3 2nd round picks signed instead to a two-way contract and even be open to that first year not counting against the cap (but burning a year of service). Like NBA, two-way guys are not eligible for the playoffs. Unlike the NBA where two way guys can play a set number of games, I think we should just leave them like the EL list. I don't want to add tracking the number of games of two-way players to bish's plate.

Regarding these comments - this is why I think just expanding the roster/IR is a no-brainer. Its beauty is its simplicity. Maybe one of the IR spots becomes non-playoff eligible.

When you say "roster/IR" do you mean changing the roster from 15 players to 16+?

I would not have a problem with that if that's what the majority of teams wanted to do but I think those extra players should count against the cap. I could be swayed to say each team can have one designated second round pick be "exempt" from the cap and just be stash guy for a season, not counting against the cap or 15 man roster.

Yes. That's precisely what I meant. Expand rosters with the expanded slots going to IR and counting against the cap.

The IR slots are effective 2 way imo.


This could be combined with other measures but that's my contribution. I like the stash slot a lot too.

[bishnykfan]

Regarding these comments - this is why I think just expanding the roster/IR is a no-brainer. Its beauty is its simplicity. Maybe one of the IR spots becomes non-playoff eligible.

When you say "roster/IR" do you mean changing the roster from 15 players to 16+?

I would not have a problem with that if that's what the majority of teams wanted to do but I think those extra players should count against the cap. I could be swayed to say each team can have one designated second round pick be "exempt" from the cap and just be stash guy for a season, not counting against the cap or 15 man roster.

Yes. That's precisely what I meant. Expand rosters with the expanded slots going to IR and counting against the cap.

The IR slots are effective 2 way imo.

I'd be fine with expanding the roster spots to more than 15. But I don't want to make them true "two way" spots where they can be called up throughout the season. We already have a ton of lineup, rotation, strategy, trades and transactions changes every day. Teams moving players on and off their active lineups is not something I'd be thrilled with adding.

[DOT]

If you made the rule about 2nd rounders being able to be waived and not count against the cap, you'd have to put in a rule that says they can't re-sign with the same team, otherwise you'd get guys being drafted, then a GM would wait until everyone else is full, waive them for nothing and sign them to a $1 a year contract to skirt the cap

But I don't like the idea of trading guaranteed contract status for extension ineligibility, I think that makes 2nd rounders less valuable, not more

We could have it so for their rookie year, you can designate 2nd round picks as stash guys, even if they're signed to NBA contracts, have their contracts not count against the cap, with the option to freeze for a year but add extra salary to the remaining years

So for example, GadFly could "stash" Dadiet who he picked at 31 for a year and have his $15 not count against the cap this season, and then either choose to bring him in on a $15/1 or 2 deal like if he weren't stashed, or "freeze" the contract for a year, but that guarantees the 3rd year option and adds the $15 he saved to the total deal, spread out over the remainder of the contract, so it'd be $20/3. But that can only be done once per player, he couldn't "stash" Dadiet indefinitely, just for the year after he got drafted, and have them still be extension eligible

Something like that, if that makes sense.

[bishnykfan]

But I don't like the idea of trading guaranteed contract status for extension ineligibility, I think that makes 2nd rounders less valuable, not more

I agree with this completely. I think you wrote it better than I did but I think this would kill all value for picks 31-55.

As for the rest of your idea, I am thinking you are proposing something similar to your "extension amendment" rule change? Teams can "stash" a pick so as it doesn't take up a roster spot or salary cap room for their first year but it would cost more in year two and beyond to bring them on then if they just signed them for year one? Am I interpreting that sort of correctly?

[Capn'O]

When you say "roster/IR" do you mean changing the roster from 15 players to 16+?

I would not have a problem with that if that's what the majority of teams wanted to do but I think those extra players should count against the cap. I could be swayed to say each team can have one designated second round pick be "exempt" from the cap and just be stash guy for a season, not counting against the cap or 15 man roster.

Yes. That's precisely what I meant. Expand rosters with the expanded slots going to IR and counting against the cap.

The IR slots are effective 2 way imo.

I'd be fine with expanding the roster spots to more than 15. But I don't want to make them true "two way" spots where they can be called up throughout the season. We already have a ton of lineup, rotation, strategy, trades and transactions changes every day. Teams moving players on and off their active lineups is not something I'd be thrilled with adding.

Am i tripping or isn't that what the IR already does? I typically keep my worse players there until guys get hurt. I've also noticed other GMs don't really use it.