An early summer 2024 thread

[KL2]

I have a sickening feeling we're about to cave and give him the 4-year max. Either way, he's firmly in Andre Miller/Elton Brand territory at this point. He's screwed this franchise twice now.

If he is leaving, he made sure Indy and OKC got something in return on his way out of those teams but he won't do the same for us, despite how the front office bent over backwards to sign every single player he demanded, usually to the team's detriment. What a joke.

I don’t think the Clippers back down. They’ve drawn a line in the sand with this new CBA. I just wish they’d cut ties and pivot to whatever their plan B is. No more wasting time on him. But they’ll wait these next few days while he takes his meetings.

Agreed on the last paragraph.

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I thought S/T deals were off the table now?

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[KL2]

What the heck we have to offer?

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[MartinToVaught]

34 years old, washed up, and can't stay on the court anymore, but he was a big name in 2015. Sounds about right for Frank.

[TrueLAfan]

I’ve been wondering since the beginning if the Paul George "interest" is at least partially other teams testing how much Ballmer was/is willing to pay. Now we’ll find out.

The six teams with cap space? Cross a few of them off. The Pistons are a nonstarter. The Spurs are fine at forward (Keldon Johnson, Jeremy Sochan) and need a PG, not PG13. The Thunder have to resign Caruso after this season, are two years away from needing to extend Jalen Williams and Chet. For Orlando, it’s Jalen Suggs and Franz Wagner who will get extensions after this year, and Banchero the year after that. Both the Thunder and Magic have gotten good enough fast enough and have enough young players and draft capital that I really don’t see them going after PG13 for four years.

Utah has a ton of mid-level guys and a couple of good not great players. They’re a possibility. But the only person over 30 on the team is Joprdan Clarkson (31). I don’t see Podcast P going over big as either a veteran leader or a podcaster in Utah.

That leaves Philly. This makes sense in a way, and no sense in another. Do you really want to bet it all—because bringing in Paul Geore is mortgaging everything, financially—for a guy who is inconsistent the playoffs and misses a quarter of team’s games? I think the Sixers are one of the teams that is curious to see how far Ballmer will go. OTOH … look, a thread headed monster of Embiid, Maxey, and PG13 would be filthy. If they stayed healthy. And came through in the playoffs. Big if’s to risk all your remaining cap space on.

I dunno. I’m a fan of Paul George, but I kinda think he’s gone and burned a bridge too far.

[Ballings7]

I still believe in Moussa, but he just may not emerge on this team.

And, let's not get Klay Thompson.. that would just be a desperate, ill-sighted move for LAC. Klay is still a productive player, and clutch, yep -- but he is not a fit on this team similar to Tobias Harris. The odds Klay has a comeback year or two is slim to none.

hope that doesn't happen... let him go to Dallas if anywhere...

May well be a big change year for the Clips it appears, at multiple different levels of the team.

Go get Jalen Smith : )

[KL2]

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Cleaning house for what exactly? Not that I think any of these players are irreplaceable but something has to be up. Do want Kai Jones back.

[og15]

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Cleaning house for what exactly? Not that I think any of these players are irreplaceable but something has to be up. Do want Kai Jones back.

You are restricted even with signing and trading your own player if you are in the second apron. Likely trying to keep themselves out of the second apron in the case of a sign and trade, so that they are actually able to do one.

The second apron is directing a lot of things:

Some teams will find it extremely difficult to make trades. Some teams will trade players they’d prefer to keep. All because of an apron. A second apron, to be precise. Oh yes, there are two of them! And they are now the bane of just about every general manager working in today’s NBA.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/6/28/24187902/nba-second-apron-offseason-preview-salary-cap-cba-rules

[KL2]

I’m so happy this will drag on for days.

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[Bobbymcgee]

So if the Clippers renounced their cap holds, wouldn't they have a lot of cap space left over to be a player in the free agent market?

That would put them at 121 million in salary and the tax level is around 171 million? Is that right? Or am I looking at it all wrong?

Source: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/la-clippers/cap/_/year/2024
Source: https://hoopshype.com/salaries/los_angeles_clippers/
Source: https://www.sportsbusinessclassroom.com/breaking-down-nba-141m-salary-cap-projection-2024-25/

[wco81]

He's going to take meetings?

He didn't have a verbal agreement when he opted out?

His agent must be feeling out teams already?

[og15]

So if the Clippers renounced their cap holds, wouldn't they have a lot of cap space left over to be a player in the free agent market?

That would put them at 121 million in salary and the tax level is around 171 million? Is that right? Or am I looking at it all wrong?

Source: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/la-clippers/cap/_/year/2024
Source: https://hoopshype.com/salaries/los_angeles_clippers/
Source: https://www.sportsbusinessclassroom.com/breaking-down-nba-141m-salary-cap-projection-2024-25/

Salary cap is $141 million. Renounce all cap holds and they can't sign any player of significance and lose the ability to give Harden more money than the around $20 million of cap space they have would allow.

They would certainly be far away from tax, but that doesn't really do much for them in terms of signing players.

[Clemenza]

I'm not even mad at PG. Do you want to be the guy years later after the NBA checks stop coming in the mail knowing that you passed up on $50 million? This is just part of the path we signed up for with this sh*t. Kawhi didn't want to sign outright and play with SGA and demanded a co star at any and all cost and so here we are. Then a bubble choke and four missed post seasons from option #1 and here we are. PG is a headcase half the time with a subpar post season acumen but that's what we signed up for. No player development, bad drafting, injuries, trades, supreme vet privilege, tryouts, experiments, chokes, chasing washed stars, etc. Why was this latest instance supposed to go smooth and perfect all of a sudden? This is the sh*t we've been going though since day one with 213!

[Clipp312s]

Why didn't we pick up Kai Jones' option at $2.19M? Are we trying to get him for a cheaper longer-term contract? Part of the reason I liked the draft was because we had Kai Jones as a project big. Wish we could lure Seddiq Bey here on a 1 Year Min contract if we promise him a starting 4 spot or heavy mins.

It's going to be an interesting few days isn't it?

[og15]

He's going to take meetings?

He didn't have a verbal agreement when he opted out?

His agent must be feeling out teams already?

"Worst" case scenario he can go back to the Clippers on a 3 year deal

[KL2]

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If you need help like me understanding.

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[Clipp312s]

Looking at our salary on basketballreference.com, I see why they didn't pick up Kai Jone's option now. Worst case scenario, PG leaves and becomes public enemy #1, not picking up Kai now gives the Clippers up to $18-19M to find a replacement. Most likely Demar Derozen (Last contract was $28M a year) or God forbid, Klay Thompson. Then once either are signed we can resign our former players over the cap ($141M)?

James - $30ish M
Kai - Min
Others - Min

Still be under the first Apron, then explore trades for PJ & Russ w/ Norm/Bones prob needed to be included to entice teams more.

Roller Coaster off-season begins now!

[KL2]

Call me crazy. Or stupid.

Is it possible the Clippers are hoping PG leaves? It wouldn’t have started out that way I don’t think. They were probably hoping he’d take the team friendly deal. Push comes to shove he takes the deal Leonard got.

I have my issues with the FO but they’re not total idiots. This standoff has been going on for months. They’d be thinking about how there would be reset buttons and pathways to improving and no restrictions and such if he stays. Not a rebuild, of course, but a slow build one?

Lawrence Frank repeatedly talks about flexibility. Especially under the new CBA. PG walks and the Clippers have a lot more of it.

The media talking about how the Clippers don’t seem stressed about losing him for nothing. You wouldn’t be if you all ready have a plan in place for when he walks.

Am I a little …

[Captain Ballmer]

Call me crazy. Or stupid.

Is it possible the Clippers are hoping PG leaves? It wouldn’t have started out that way I don’t think. They were probably hoping he’d take the team friendly deal. Push comes to shove he takes the deal Leonard got.

I have my issues with the FO but they’re not total idiots. This standoff has been going on for months. They’d be thinking about how there would be reset buttons and pathways to improving and no restrictions and such if he stays. Not a rebuild, of course, but a slow build one?

Lawrence Frank repeatedly talks about flexibility. Especially under the new CBA. PG walks and the Clippers have a lot more of it.

The media talking about how the Clippers don’t seem stressed about losing him for nothing. You wouldn’t be if you all ready have a plan in place for when he walks.

Am I a little …

Problems are getting bigger for this franchise when Pg13 staying at the max level he demands.

Pg got 4th year max means Kawhi would look stupid.
FO would look weak and Harden will have an edge on negotiations. We going to gave him max the market can offer.
This means we will be over the 2nd apron years to come even with cap increases.
Our 2032 1st rd pick will be ineligible for trades. And our 2033 1st rd pick will be ineligible for trades with move to and of the last row #30 and it keeps continue till you droo from that level.

If pg13 accept just like Kawhi had, then FO will have the ground for Harden contract to get him take a pay cut, thus Zubac&Mann extensions for 2025 will have upper limits.

[MartinToVaught]

I'm not even mad at PG. Do you want to be the guy years later after the NBA checks stop coming in the mail knowing that you passed up on $50 million?

I know PG wishes he was a veteran minimum journeyman so nobody would expect him to do anything in the playoffs, but he's already made a ton of money throughout his career. He could retire today and be set for life. Guys like LeBron, Duncan, Dirk, who have actually accomplished something in the NBA have taken less to help their teams - gee, it's almost like there's a correlation there - so PG is not above doing the same. Frankly, it shouldn't even be viewed as taking a pay cut because that would imply he's actually worth the 4-year max, which he's not. He wouldn't even be worth that under the old CBA, let alone the new one. Notice how the only teams offering that are two of the most poorly-run franchises in the league.

Also, the blatant hypocrisy makes it worse. His entire time here, he's made demand after demand to the front office and then choked when it's time for him to perform. The front office wants him to do one favor in return and he screws us in epic fashion. He got all his buddies to sign here on dirt-cheap contracts for years, but when it's time for him to sacrifice, he won't do a far less extreme version of what he convinced Russ, Reggie, Wall, PPat, etc. to do. He deserves all the criticism he gets.

[Clemenza]

I'm not even mad at PG. Do you want to be the guy years later after the NBA checks stop coming in the mail knowing that you passed up on $50 million?

I know PG wishes he was a veteran minimum journeyman so nobody would expect him to do anything in the playoffs, but he's already made a ton of money throughout his career. He could retire today and be set for life. Guys like LeBron, Duncan, Dirk, who have actually accomplished something in the NBA have taken less to help their teams - gee, it's almost like there's a correlation there - so PG is not above doing the same. Frankly, it shouldn't even be viewed as taking a pay cut because that would imply he's actually worth the 4-year max, which he's not. He wouldn't even be worth that under the old CBA, let alone the new one. Notice how the only teams offering that are two of the most poorly-run franchises in the league.

Also, the blatant hypocrisy makes it worse. His entire time here, he's made demand after demand to the front office and then choked when it's time for him to perform. The front office wants him to do one favor in return and he screws us in epic fashion. He got all his buddies to sign here on dirt-cheap contracts for years, but when it's time for him to sacrifice, he won't do a far less extreme version of what he convinced Russ, Reggie, Wall, PPat, etc. to do. He deserves all the criticism he gets.

He does deserve criticism, I'm not saying he doesn't. Its been an up and down rollercoaster with him over these past five years. No question about it, but you're not turning down $50 f*cking million dollars no matter what. Leaving $50 mill on the table is not a pay cut, that's generational wealth out the window! So lets get this straight, he turns down $50 million and lets say hypothetically Kawhi misses yet another post season, PG will have to do all the heavy lifting as usual, more than likely at his age he won't get it done, and then have to take on the entire wrath of the fanbase all over again while Kawhi chills out in the cut in San Diego, no pressure, no heat, and hang out with Kendrick at pop up concerts. And yes PG will make the situation worse by running his mouth on his podcast and making suggestions to the front office on who to sign next, but he still can't turn down fifty mill if its a possibility. What world do y'all live in?