With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo

[ATLTimekeeper]

He’s not really a project. It’s just his shooting that has major flaws.

I know people are enamoured with Flip or Furphy’s archetype but they’re more of a project than Mogbo is.

He rebounds significantly better than those 2, he defends significantly better than those 2, he passes significantly better than those 2, he screens significantly better than those 2 and he’s also significantly more athletic than those 2.

I think he can carve out minutes for himself pretty quickly.

Furphy and Flip aren't projects. They have positions and portability, and will just have to go through the development arc of adding strength. Mogbo is a project in the sense that he doesn't have a clear NBA position (Bobby is already calling him a wing), he's undersized to be a C (low body mass, short), he's not a threat to score off the bounce much outside of transition. He's a guy that you can shift up and down the line-up, but you have to consider who he's out there with more than those other two you mentioned.

Also, this team is trying to stink next year and no one needs to carve out minutes.

I think it's pretty clear he's a non-shooting, mobile/strong PF with ball skills and great vision in the Bam/Draymond/Xavier Tillman/TJD/Young Thad mold. Better at certain things than some, and worse at others. I see him playing the facilitator role Darko was trying to squeeze Precious into. The only 'project' is seeing if they can help him develop a jump shot.

I like Furphy and I know others were high on Flip, but neither can defend their position. They're both very much projects on that end.

Okay but you say it's clear and the guy that just drafted him called him a 'wing.' You can have your opinion, but the fact that an NBA exec says otherwise should be telling that there's some position questions with him. Note that three of your examples are fringe NBA players at this point and two are all-stars. imo there's more Furphy and Filipowski's finding roles in the NBA right now. They are what they are, yes players take time to improve defensively. Does that make them a project? Physically, I guess. Experience is the second growth factor for NBA defense and all rookies come in with the same amount of NBA minutes.

[HumbleRen]

He’s not really a project. It’s just his shooting that has major flaws.

I know people are enamoured with Flip or Furphy’s archetype but they’re more of a project than Mogbo is.

He rebounds significantly better than those 2, he defends significantly better than those 2, he passes significantly better than those 2, he screens significantly better than those 2 and he’s also significantly more athletic than those 2.

I think he can carve out minutes for himself pretty quickly.

Furphy and Flip aren't projects. They have positions and portability, and will just have to go through the development arc of adding strength. Mogbo is a project in the sense that he doesn't have a clear NBA position (Bobby is already calling him a wing), he's undersized to be a C (low body mass, short), he's not a threat to score off the bounce much outside of transition. He's a guy that you can shift up and down the line-up, but you have to consider who he's out there with more than those other two you mentioned.

Also, this team is trying to stink next year and no one needs to carve out minutes.

Flip is an undersized 5 at the NBA level who thinks he’s a 3/4. He was a terrible defender at Duke. His shooting ability is vastly overrated as well. Furphy cannot defend his position at all.

There’s a reason why they both fell hard from the first round, they’re projects.

[grant101]

Furphy and Flip aren't projects. They have positions and portability, and will just have to go through the development arc of adding strength. Mogbo is a project in the sense that he doesn't have a clear NBA position (Bobby is already calling him a wing), he's undersized to be a C (low body mass, short), he's not a threat to score off the bounce much outside of transition. He's a guy that you can shift up and down the line-up, but you have to consider who he's out there with more than those other two you mentioned.

Also, this team is trying to stink next year and no one needs to carve out minutes.

I think it's pretty clear he's a non-shooting, mobile/strong PF with ball skills and great vision in the Bam/Draymond/Xavier Tillman/TJD/Young Thad mold. Better at certain things than some, and worse at others. I see him playing the facilitator role Darko was trying to squeeze Precious into. The only 'project' is seeing if they can help him develop a jump shot.

I like Furphy and I know others were high on Flip, but neither can defend their position. They're both very much projects on that end.

Okay but you say it's clear and the guy that just drafted him called him a 'wing.' You can have your opinion, but the fact that an NBA exec says otherwise should be telling that there's some position questions with him. Note that three of your examples are fringe NBA players at this point and two are all-stars. imo there's more Furphy and Filipowski's finding roles in the NBA right now. They are what they are, yes players take time to improve defensively. Does that make them a project? Physically, I guess. Experience is the second growth factor for NBA defense and all rookies come in with the same amount of NBA minutes.

I think you may be reading too much into what seemed like a throwaway comment from Bobby. What matters is where Darko plays him. You also read a little too much into a non-exhaustive list of players that fit an archetype. My point was not that Mogbo is Draymond or Bam, but that he definitely has a position, and there's significant precedent of teams employing it. I see no reason why he can't replicate the success TJD had last year. If anything, Mogbo is better on the ball and off the dribble (though his touch on floaters/hooks/push shots is not as refined).

I also guess I don't understand your destinction between improving and project. Do you not think defense is a skill? There are plenty of players that flamed out of the league because they couldn't develop enough defensively to hang despite physical development and experience.

[ForeverTFC]

I agree with ATL here, Bobby doesn’t call him a wing on accident. Now a wing can easily mean a 4, and maybe he becomes a small ball 5, but based on the way Bobby has talked about both Walter and Mogbo, it’s pretty clear they intend to develop them as wings to begin with.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

He’s not really a project. It’s just his shooting that has major flaws.

I know people are enamoured with Flip or Furphy’s archetype but they’re more of a project than Mogbo is.

He rebounds significantly better than those 2, he defends significantly better than those 2, he passes significantly better than those 2, he screens significantly better than those 2 and he’s also significantly more athletic than those 2.

I think he can carve out minutes for himself pretty quickly.

Furphy and Flip aren't projects. They have positions and portability, and will just have to go through the development arc of adding strength. Mogbo is a project in the sense that he doesn't have a clear NBA position (Bobby is already calling him a wing), he's undersized to be a C (low body mass, short), he's not a threat to score off the bounce much outside of transition. He's a guy that you can shift up and down the line-up, but you have to consider who he's out there with more than those other two you mentioned.

Also, this team is trying to stink next year and no one needs to carve out minutes.

Flip is an undersized 5 at the NBA level who thinks he’s a 3/4. He was a terrible defender at Duke. His shooting ability is vastly overrated as well. Furphy cannot defend his position at all.

There’s a reason why they both fell hard from the first round, they’re projects.

I was told from someone who actually knows that Filipowski fell because the Jazz were the only team in the 20's that he interviewed with and the girlfriend stuff got around the league and teams used a variety of irrelevant things as confirmation bias against him.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

It's wild to think that Filipowski is a project and Reed Sheppard isn't when both are technically poor defenders who make up for it with high stock rates, feel and offensive ability.

Yves Missi and AJ Johnson are projects.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I agree with ATL here, Bobby doesn’t call him a wing on accident. Now a wing can easily mean a 4, and maybe he becomes a small ball 5, but based on the way Bobby has talked about both Walter and Mogbo, it’s pretty clear they intend to develop them as wings to begin with.

You might as well try to get him to hit that outcome but given his age and shooting touch it's highly unlikely. The thing is that the Raptors love experimenting with these things and trying to wire Mogbo to succeed as a wing will derail him from focusing on the intricacies of being a small ball 5 but that's actually the right thing to do as there is more value to taking his skillset and applying it at wing but a lot needs to happen for that to occur.

I don't really believe Mogbo is that malleable with a high enough baseline of wing skills at 22 but it seems pretty clear they prefer the tiny chance of that outcome over the stronger chance of turning him into a good undersized 5, a role which doesn't possess nearly as much value as that of a starting caliber NBA wing. If we want a good small ball 5 we can just take JT Toppin next year in the 2nd round.

[ForeverTFC]

Furphy and Flip aren't projects. They have positions and portability, and will just have to go through the development arc of adding strength. Mogbo is a project in the sense that he doesn't have a clear NBA position (Bobby is already calling him a wing), he's undersized to be a C (low body mass, short), he's not a threat to score off the bounce much outside of transition. He's a guy that you can shift up and down the line-up, but you have to consider who he's out there with more than those other two you mentioned.

Also, this team is trying to stink next year and no one needs to carve out minutes.

Flip is an undersized 5 at the NBA level who thinks he’s a 3/4. He was a terrible defender at Duke. His shooting ability is vastly overrated as well. Furphy cannot defend his position at all.

There’s a reason why they both fell hard from the first round, they’re projects.

I was told from someone who actually knows that Filipowski fell because the Jazz were the only team in the 20's that he interviewed with and the girlfriend stuff got around the league and teams used a variety of irrelevant things as confirmation bias against him.

Sure, but the Jazz also passed on him at 29. Also, to insinuate every team was using irrelevant things against him doesn’t make much sense. Picks at the end of the draft were cheap gets. There were clearly issues beyond the GF stuff because otherwise at least 1 team would zag.

[Tha Cynic]

Furphy looks like one of those guys who will get overpaid at some point because he has a jumper, but won't be able to defend his shadow so teams will end up keeping him on the bench when they're serious about winning. I'd rather the Raptors look for someone who can potentially guard and has a high motor.

Filipowski though looks like he may be someone we regret not taking if he clicks and that gf stuff doesn't rear its ugly head.

At the end of the day, this is a second round pick in a bad draft.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Flip is an undersized 5 at the NBA level who thinks he’s a 3/4. He was a terrible defender at Duke. His shooting ability is vastly overrated as well. Furphy cannot defend his position at all.

There’s a reason why they both fell hard from the first round, they’re projects.

I was told from someone who actually knows that Filipowski fell because the Jazz were the only team in the 20's that he interviewed with and the girlfriend stuff got around the league and teams used a variety of irrelevant things as confirmation bias against him.

Sure, but the Jazz also passed on him at 29. Also, to insinuate every team was using irrelevant things against him doesn’t make much sense. Picks at the end of the draft were cheap gets. There were clearly issues beyond the GF stuff because otherwise at least 1 team would zag.

This is just what I was told and it makes perfect sense to me. Teams scared off from negative wingspan when it's historically less relevant in big men than wings and guards, scared of defense so they thought he's a tweener when you can just play him at the 5 and it doesn't matter when the offensive upside is that high and there's stock production to compensate. In the modern era defense is less relevant when you have potential elite offensive production at the 5 so teams made a ton of excuses.

Whether he materializes or not, the archetype of player checks out and he's young and productive enough to believe in.

I'll also add that the Frank Kaminsky comps were BS, Flip is young and a legit offensive hub with a body of work suggesting potential elite passing from a 5 who was good enough to lead a team to a top offensive efficiency rating in D1 at a young age and after having missed time due to surgery. Flip is lightyears ahead as a prospect.

[TakeYourHeart]

Watch on YouTube

mechanics look pretty good

[ATLTimekeeper]

Flip is an undersized 5 at the NBA level who thinks he’s a 3/4. He was a terrible defender at Duke. His shooting ability is vastly overrated as well. Furphy cannot defend his position at all.

There’s a reason why they both fell hard from the first round, they’re projects.

I was told from someone who actually knows that Filipowski fell because the Jazz were the only team in the 20's that he interviewed with and the girlfriend stuff got around the league and teams used a variety of irrelevant things as confirmation bias against him.

Sure, but the Jazz also passed on him at 29. Also, to insinuate every team was using irrelevant things against him doesn’t make much sense. Picks at the end of the draft were cheap gets. There were clearly issues beyond the GF stuff because otherwise at least 1 team would zag.

Maybe the Jazz believed the Raptors would take Collier (we were rumoured to be taking a long look at him) and so made sure that by taking Collier they'd get their guy and go next on their list for Mogbo over Filipowski. They only had to know the Raptors and Celtics board to really make that work.

Just a guess, but Filipowski didn't work out for the Raptors or Celtics. I think he was largely mocked in the late teens and twenties. It's not a big slide.

[ForeverTFC]

I was told from someone who actually knows that Filipowski fell because the Jazz were the only team in the 20's that he interviewed with and the girlfriend stuff got around the league and teams used a variety of irrelevant things as confirmation bias against him.

Sure, but the Jazz also passed on him at 29. Also, to insinuate every team was using irrelevant things against him doesn’t make much sense. Picks at the end of the draft were cheap gets. There were clearly issues beyond the GF stuff because otherwise at least 1 team would zag.

Maybe the Jazz believed the Raptors would take Collier (we were rumoured to be taking a long look at him) and so made sure that by taking Collier they'd get their guy and go next on their list for Mogbo over Filipowski. They only had to know the Raptors and Celtics board to really make that work.

Just a guess, but Filipowski didn't work out for the Raptors or Celtics. I think he was largely mocked in the late teens and twenties. It's not a big slide.

Maybe. But the Raptors also didn’t work out JaKobe and they still drafted him.

Also, RBC said Dean, who was apparently consulting for us, had him top 5 on his board (he may have said 1). I’d have to believe the Raptors had done their diligence here.

There is a lot of noise that his interviews and workouts were terrible and that he’s a nervous guy. There are real reasons he fell beyond this GF stuff. Every team pretty much passed on him, including Utah twice. He may very well be hit and a steal, but clearly teams were seeing a lot of risk.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Flip was #2 for Dean. Shead was #12. Mogbo was around 20. Said he was intrigued by Chomche because of passing at his dimensions.

Personally had Flip #9, Mogbo #16 and Shead #22. I had Walter late 1st. Was considering Flip as high as #5 or #6 for a while. Couldn't be as high on Shead as Dean because of historical trends and I thought the lack of shooting improvement over large sample was concerning but maybe I have something to learn from this. Not like FT% is busted and probably was a gamble worth taking considering literally everything else is in place for him to do damage in the NBA.

[Dennis 37]

Furphy and Flip aren't projects. They have positions and portability, and will just have to go through the development arc of adding strength. Mogbo is a project in the sense that he doesn't have a clear NBA position (Bobby is already calling him a wing), he's undersized to be a C (low body mass, short), he's not a threat to score off the bounce much outside of transition. He's a guy that you can shift up and down the line-up, but you have to consider who he's out there with more than those other two you mentioned.

Also, this team is trying to stink next year and no one needs to carve out minutes.

Flip is an undersized 5 at the NBA level who thinks he’s a 3/4. He was a terrible defender at Duke. His shooting ability is vastly overrated as well. Furphy cannot defend his position at all.

There’s a reason why they both fell hard from the first round, they’re projects.

I was told from someone who actually knows that Filipowski fell because the Jazz were the only team in the 20's that he interviewed with and the girlfriend stuff got around the league and teams used a variety of irrelevant things as confirmation bias against him.

There were reports that interviews did not go well. Teams expect players to have families supporting their players.

[hyper316]

Watch on YouTube

mechanics look pretty good

Damn you're right, shot looks good. Maybe just college coach didn't want him to shoot for some reason

[Rapsfan07]

Didn't love the Mogbo pick but if he can learn to shoot it even 33-35% on low volume, we could be looking at a Draymond Green kind of player.

If he doesn't, he'll be out of the league sooner rather than later. He's just too small to be an effective big at the next level.

[Thaddy]

Didn't love the Mogbo pick but if he can learn to shoot it even 33-35% on low volume, we could be looking at a Draymond Green kind of player.

If he doesn't, he'll be out of the league sooner rather than later. He's just too small to be an effective big at the next level.

He led the NCAA in dunks and his standing reach is the same as Bam Adebayo's. The shooting looks really good too and he was a 5'9 guard before his growth spurt.

I see this guy being our best prospect in 5 years out of this draft. He might be a defacto starter by mid season if he makes another statistical jump.

[bonjovi0308]

If you think Barnes is a decent get at the 4th pick, why should anyone complain on getting a poor man's Barnes in the 2nd round? Remember, most of us are not professional scouts...

[Thaddy]

Do we want him to start a C in the summer league? I have no doubts he'd be good there and has the size. He has the same standing reach as Bam. But I would want to develop his guard skills and put him in a PJ Tucker role. A front court of Mogbo and Agbaji doesn't seem practical.

Mogbo
Agbaji
Dick
Walter
Shead

Carlson
Mogbo
Agbaji
Dick / Walter
Shead