Dig in those Heels - Cam Johnson Carolina Blue

[Netaman]

Cam J is going to be a microcosm of the Bridges trade. Every talking head and fan is going to scoff at him returning big value and is going to roast Marks for turning down what seem like some good deals and then he’s going to get a big return either this coming deadline or draft night ‘25.

Vague rumor out there is he turned down the following during the 1st round(main assets):

13th and Davion Mitchell
17th and Rui/JHS
2 future protected Denver picks and Braun

Who knows if true, but it doesn’t seem that crazy if Nets brass didn’t love anyone available at 13 and 17, and the protections on the Denver picks was restrictive and matching salary filler was bad. Bad draft or not, they show at the deadline they’ll probably be able to secure a pick likely to be very late lotto to late teens in a better ‘25 draft and a pick with reasonable protections and reasonable expectations to be the same in ‘27, with expiring filler, or a contract that ends by summer of ‘26, or a pick and a miscast high upside 1st rounder rotting on a bench from the ‘22 or ‘23 drafts.

interesting all seems reasonable. id imagine marks isn't turning down those deals so much as countering them in some way. i think the values are pretty close, though as has been discussed with the weak draft i get not being that compelled to get 13 or 17 (especially 17).

I wonder what his counters are or who he's looking to get that others are saying no to. of the rumored interested teams IND has the most interesting player assets but i doubt they move any of them for camj.

tre mann seems like a realistic target. anthony black would be great but it sounds more like cole anthony would be more realistic. cason wallace would also be great.

would be great to come out of this offseason with a young pg they can develop next to cam thomas after they inevitably move on from schroder/simmons.

[vincecarter4pres]

Cam J is going to be a microcosm of the Bridges trade. Every talking head and fan is going to scoff at him returning big value and is going to roast Marks for turning down what seem like some good deals and then he’s going to get a big return either this coming deadline or draft night ‘25.

Vague rumor out there is he turned down the following during the 1st round(main assets):

13th and Davion Mitchell
17th and Rui/JHS
2 future protected Denver picks and Braun

Who knows if true, but it doesn’t seem that crazy if Nets brass didn’t love anyone available at 13 and 17, and the protections on the Denver picks was restrictive and matching salary filler was bad. Bad draft or not, they show at the deadline they’ll probably be able to secure a pick likely to be very late lotto to late teens in a better ‘25 draft and a pick with reasonable protections and reasonable expectations to be the same in ‘27, with expiring filler, or a contract that ends by summer of ‘26, or a pick and a miscast high upside 1st rounder rotting on a bench from the ‘22 or ‘23 drafts.

interesting all seems reasonable. id imagine marks isn't turning down those deals so much as countering them in some way. i think the values are pretty close, though as has been discussed with the weak draft i get not being that compelled to get 13 or 17 (especially 17).

I wonder what his counters are or who he's looking to get that others are saying no to. of the rumored interested teams IND has the most interesting player assets but i doubt they move any of them for camj.

tre mann seems like a realistic target. anthony black would be great but it sounds more like cole anthony would be more realistic. cason wallace would also be great.

would be great to come out of this offseason with a young pg they can develop next to cam thomas after they inevitably move on from schroder/simmons.

It is interesting for sure as to what his counters were, why the opposing team turned it down, and if they will bend at the deadline.

I loved Carter, as you know from the Nets board, so I’m a little sad on that one, but I openly wonder if he viewed Carter as really good immediately, but low ceiling and was worried he’d ruin the ‘25 tank a bit, without the upside of his own or a future unprotected pick. I do think their guys were mainly Holland and Topic, and once they were off the board before 13 they again wanted big future value/incentive to move into the ‘24 draft as the main asset?

I actually think OP’s deal is close and interesting. That Miami pick has some very real speculative value, and at this point, aside from a concrete lotto pick during the ‘25 draft in real time, they’re going to look for a ‘26 and/or ‘27 1st + for Cam J, that has some real upside to be high lotto and a likely floor of 20th overall.

[Netaman]

It is interesting for sure as to what his counters were, why the opposing team turned it down, and if they will bend at the deadline.

I loved Carter, as you know from the Nets board, so I’m a little sad on that one, but I openly wonder if he viewed Carter as really good immediately, but low ceiling and was worried he’d ruin the ‘25 tank a bit, without the upside of his own or a future unprotected pick. I do think their guys were mainly Holland and Topic, and once they were off the board before 13 they again wanted big future value/incentive to move into the ‘24 draft as the main asset?

I actually think OP’s deal is close and interesting. That Miami pick has some very real speculative value, and at this point, aside from a concrete lotto pick during the ‘25 draft in real time, they’re going to look for a ‘26 and/or ‘27 1st + for Cam J, that has some real upside to be high lotto and a likely floor of 20th overall.

Miami pick and Tre Mann is a deal i really like. Certainly better than Mitchell/#13 but not too far off.

I'd imagine Nets asked SAC for another FRP and they balked, which was probably right ask and right decision for SAC since CamJ probably doesn't get them over the top.

I don't have a strong opinion comparing someone like Mann to Carter except that point guard is a tough position to draft/predict, so I can see the benefit to prefer a guy like Mann who is already a couple years down the development road.

[TheNetsFan]

It is interesting for sure as to what his counters were, why the opposing team turned it down, and if they will bend at the deadline.

I loved Carter, as you know from the Nets board, so I’m a little sad on that one, but I openly wonder if he viewed Carter as really good immediately, but low ceiling and was worried he’d ruin the ‘25 tank a bit, without the upside of his own or a future unprotected pick. I do think their guys were mainly Holland and Topic, and once they were off the board before 13 they again wanted big future value/incentive to move into the ‘24 draft as the main asset?

I actually think OP’s deal is close and interesting. That Miami pick has some very real speculative value, and at this point, aside from a concrete lotto pick during the ‘25 draft in real time, they’re going to look for a ‘26 and/or ‘27 1st + for Cam J, that has some real upside to be high lotto and a likely floor of 20th overall.

Miami pick and Tre Mann is a deal i really like. Certainly better than Mitchell/#13 but not too far off.

I'd imagine Nets asked SAC for another FRP and they balked, which was probably right ask and right decision for SAC since CamJ probably doesn't get them over the top.

I don't have a strong opinion comparing someone like Mann to Carter except that point guard is a tough position to draft/predict, so I can see the benefit to prefer a guy like Mann who is already a couple years down the development road.

I don't think Marks was enamored with anyone in this draft. My guess is he prefers future picks.

[amcoolio]

2027 first round draft pick from Miami
Miami's 1st round pick to Charlotte protected for selections 1-14 in 2027, conveyable if Miami conveys a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City in 2025, and unprotected in 2028 [Charlotte-Miami, 1/23/2024]

IDK that seems like something Charlotte should hold on to. I'd rather trade the Mavs first

2027 first round draft pick from Dallas
Dallas' 2027 1st round pick to Charlotte protected for selections 1-2; if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Dallas will instead convey Miami's 2028 2nd round pick to Charlotte [Charlotte-Dallas, 2/8/2024]

[Devilanche]

If the offers don't get better than that the Nets can just keep Cam until someone gets eager to improve at the trade deadline.

As we get closer to the post season someone is going to see that one of their rivals is better than them and that getting Cam is more important than draft picks if getting a chip is their goal.

Even after considering salary matching and tax apron consideration ?

It's hard to predict how the market evolves within new CBA, but there are teams right now who are planning to go free agents similar to camj, be it caleb martin or whoever, that will miss out. I think that is the holding pattern sellers like Nets are in right now.

What's fortunate for the nets (i think) is that they have 2 such players at different $ with DFS/CamJ. So depending on how the market evolves they have options.

I also think it's possible the Nets initiate a S&T using DFS by trying to poach a younger FA/RFA and then leveraging a S&T for that player. They have their full NTMLE at 12.8m and can use it while staying under luxury tax, do they offer it multi-year to Okoro to try to jam up CLE? Or Obi/IND? Or DJJ/Dallas? Naji Marshall? Would any of those teams prefer DFS on his 1 year to maintain flexibility vs a multi-year deal for a likely bench player?

From the contenders point of view DFS would probably be easier in terms of salary matching so if I’m only moving one for now I probably move cam Johnson first.

[ecuhus1981]

Johnson to Charlotte makes some sense. I don't see this deal really separating itself from other offers Brooklyn can field for him.

If Barnes and the #13 weren't enough to convince the Nets FO, then I think they're willing to go into the season and see if he can raise his value in a featured role.

[Netaman]

Even after considering salary matching and tax apron consideration ?

It's hard to predict how the market evolves within new CBA, but there are teams right now who are planning to go free agents similar to camj, be it caleb martin or whoever, that will miss out. I think that is the holding pattern sellers like Nets are in right now.

What's fortunate for the nets (i think) is that they have 2 such players at different $ with DFS/CamJ. So depending on how the market evolves they have options.

I also think it's possible the Nets initiate a S&T using DFS by trying to poach a younger FA/RFA and then leveraging a S&T for that player. They have their full NTMLE at 12.8m and can use it while staying under luxury tax, do they offer it multi-year to Okoro to try to jam up CLE? Or Obi/IND? Or DJJ/Dallas? Naji Marshall? Would any of those teams prefer DFS on his 1 year to maintain flexibility vs a multi-year deal for a likely bench player?

From the contenders point of view DFS would probably be easier in terms of salary matching so if I’m only moving one for now I probably move cam Johnson first.

for cam johnson i think given marks' history, they are going to have specific offers in mind and be really picky dealing him. i dont think they are going to feel any urgency. without knowing specifics i feel pretty confident that would mean either a pick or player Marks values highly, not a pupu platter of meh picks and/or salary fillers. i would guess the odds he's still a net at training camp are greater than 50%.

for dfs i think they'd obviously be a lot more amenable because there's almost no chance he's still a net past the deadline. i think the odds he's still a net when the season starts are way under 50%.

[drchaos]

One thing to consider for the Nets in the 2025 draft is that they own the picks for three contenders (Knicks, Suns, and Bucs).

This could make a pick swap in 2025 a big get for them.

The right to trade spots from the bottom eight picks in the draft to a pick in the 10-15 range or better next year would be desireable.

If a team is not willing to give up their first rounder for DFS but would be willing to give up a pick swap against one of these three picks would make a trade work.

[TheNetsFan]

One thing to consider for the Nets in the 2025 draft is that they own the picks for three contenders (Knicks, Suns, and Bucs).

This could make a pick swap in 2025 a big get for them.

The right to trade spots from the bottom eight picks in the draft to a pick in the 10-15 range or better next year would be desireable.

If a team is not willing to give up their first rounder for DFS but would be willing to give up a pick swap against one of these three picks would make a trade work.

Agreed. The Suns pick will most likely be OKC's pick. Out of the 3 later picks, I think Milwaukee's is most likely to creep into the late teens due to age. If the Nets can swing swap rights from their "worst of" pick, that could be very valuable.

I do expect the Nets to use multiple '25 picks (they have 4 1st and 2 2nds currently) and potentially future picks to try and trade up next year as well.