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Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#241 » by pancakes3 » Tue Apr 16, 2024 1:49 pm

Dat2U wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:I don't think Bilal can or should play SG. His ideal position is PF. And Kispert is a better option at SG anyway.


Defense. Upside. I'm erring on both in this case.

Long term Coulibaly is a 3. I don't see the frame to play the 4 extensively anytime soon although he's certainly switchable 1-4.

But next season I like Coulibaly & Avdija as our main wings provided we go big or guard in the draft. You have two long, athletic switchable defenders to cover up Poole or whoever we draft. Add a defensive C and suddenly you have an NBA caliber unit capable of getting stops.

This is also contingent on Kuz being here as they don't seem to be in a rush to move him nor is he pushing to leave. Ideally you move Kuz for an SG at some point in the near future and you can slide Deni & Bilal into their natural positions at the 3 & 4.


Bilal measured at 6'6 and some change without shoes at the combine, but based off eye test and corroborating twitter sleuths, he grew significantly (see below). He's gonna be 6'9ish with shoes. But that's really not the point. The way I see it for the next 2-3 seasons:

1) Deni has the offensive and defensive skills to play either forward spots seamlessly, so that's really good for the team.

2) Kuz can play SF, but doesn't have the footspeed to guard SF's (Tatum, Kawhi, Butler, Michael Porter Jr, Scottie Barnes, et al) so he can only really guard power forwards, and even then, not especially well. He'd get cooked at sg.

3) Bilal can guard anyone that Deni can guard, but I think neither of them could legitimately pick up a SG for extended stretches. Deni maybe, Bilal probably a tougher time, and even then, only the bigger SG like Booker, Ant, Jaylen Brown. They shouldn't be chasing CJ McCollum, Donovan Mitchell, or Immanuel Quickley around screens.

4) So you've got 3 guys to play at the forward spots, and in certain matchups, could guard 2-guards as well. The issue with sticking one of them at 2-guard (Deni to me is the most capable) is that it limits the offense (Kispert/Poole can do more from the 2-guard position) for marginal increases in defense.

5) While it's true that a team can have different roles offensively and defensively, especially with positionless schemes on offense, and have Kuz "play" sg on offense but have Deni "play" sg on defense, at the end of the day it's still a man-to-man league. Yes, you can hide guys on defense by switching defensive assignments, that's usually between pg/sg, but not entirely different shifts between 3+ players. It gets too chaotic, and you'll get caught out of position. When you go down the court and run your set, and the guy you're supposed to guard is on the other end of the court, and takes off after a miss, you have to make up the ground to get back on defense and the other guy has to do the same with his switched assignment. Doing all of this in transition, with 3 moving pieces is a level of defensive discipline that I don't think we're capable of - or really any team is capable of.

Like, picture Kuz coming off a screen for a shot at the top of the key being guarded by Lebron, Bilal's the screener being guarded by Reeves, and Deni is in the corner being guarded by Rui. Kuz misses. Do you want Kuz to stick with Lebron? Do you want Bilal to pick up Lebron and have Kuz cover Reeves? What happens when it's Deni who's setting the screen and now you have Lebron and Rui taking off with Deni and Kuz at the top of the key and Bilal in the corner with Reeves? Bilal's assignment is... who? Reeves? What if it was Lebron? He has to make up the distance from corner to the top of the key plus the head start Lebron had after the miss. But Deni's already taken off in transition to keep Rui/Bron from getting a layup, and he's supposed to stick Reeves. How do they reset? When do they reset? Does this sound complicated? It sounds complicated to me, and I'm the one who posited the hypo.

tl;dr, Let Bilal/Deni/Kuz rotate the forward spots, and just let Kispert play sg.

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#242 » by nate33 » Tue Apr 16, 2024 2:16 pm

pancakes3 wrote:Like, picture Kuz coming off a screen for a shot at the top of the key being guarded by Lebron, Bilal's the screener being guarded by Reeves, and Deni is in the corner being guarded by Rui. Kuz misses. Do you want Kuz to stick with Lebron? Do you want Bilal to pick up Lebron and have Kuz cover Reeves? What happens when it's Deni who's setting the screen and now you have Lebron and Rui taking off with Deni and Kuz at the top of the key and Bilal in the corner with Reeves? Bilal's assignment is... who? Reeves? What if it was Lebron? He has to make up the distance from corner to the top of the key plus the head start Lebron had after the miss. But Deni's already taken off in transition to keep Rui/Bron from getting a layup, and he's supposed to stick Reeves. How do they reset? When do they reset? Does this sound complicated? It sounds complicated to me, and I'm the one who posited the hypo.

tl;dr, Let Bilal/Deni/Kuz rotate the forward spots, and just let Kispert play sg.


I think the scenario you painted belies your point.

If you are worried about transition defense across matchups, wouldn't it be better to have your 3 wings be Deni, Kuz and Bilal rather than just two of those guys plus Kispert? I'll take any of Deni, Kuz or Bilal on Lebron before I put Kispert on Lebron!

The real question is whether or not the shooting, spacing and smart cutting of Kispert helps the offense more so than his bad defense hurts. And I agree that is lineup dependent and matchup dependent. If the other team likes to hunt on offense, Kispert is going to be a problem. A team like Dallas will bring Kispert's matchup into a high screen to force Kispert to switch onto Doncic. But other teams don't hunt mismatches as much so Kispert is fine.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#243 » by nate33 » Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:38 pm

I'm going to unsticky this thread now. We can start a new one next year when we know what our rotation will look like.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#244 » by leswizards » Thu Jun 27, 2024 3:11 am

Wizards depth chart (based upon what wizards have invested in the player and not necessarily where they will be in the actual lineup):

Pg: Malcolm, Davis, butler
Sg: Poole, bub, Landry
Sf: Bilal, kispert, George
Pf: Kuzma, sarr, pbj
C: Bagley, Holmes, Tristan

Starting lineup is probably accurate. Davis probably won’t be in the second team, but other than that probably pretty accurate.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#245 » by badinage » Thu Jun 27, 2024 3:22 am

Who cares?

They just shipped out the face of the franchise and the most lovable player in this town since John Wall.

There’s no point in watching — maybe every 10 games, to see the RAW, RAW pups and hope for some sparks.

But otherwise, it ain’t worth it. Check back here in a year — with, we hope, the first pick.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#246 » by closg00 » Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:31 pm

leswizards wrote:Wizards depth chart (based upon what wizards have invested in the player and not necessarily where they will be in the actual lineup):

Pg: Malcolm, Davis, butler
Sg: Poole, bub, Landry
Sf: Bilal, kispert, George
Pf: Kuzma, sarr, pbj
C: Bagley, Holmes, Tristan

Starting lineup is probably accurate. Davis probably won’t be in the second team, but other than that probably pretty accurate.


Did the deadline pass for Landry’s contract to become guaranteed for the year? I don’t believe he will be on the team.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#247 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:45 pm

closg00 wrote:
leswizards wrote:Wizards depth chart (based upon what wizards have invested in the player and not necessarily where they will be in the actual lineup):

Pg: Malcolm, Davis, butler
Sg: Poole, bub, Landry
Sf: Bilal, kispert, George
Pf: Kuzma, sarr, pbj
C: Bagley, Holmes, Tristan

Starting lineup is probably accurate. Davis probably won’t be in the second team, but other than that probably pretty accurate.


Did the deadline pass for Landry’s contract to become guaranteed for the year? I don’t believe he will be on the team.

I think the deadline is June 28th or June 29th - after the draft but before the July Moratorium.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#248 » by penbeast0 » Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:11 pm

leswizards wrote:Wizards depth chart (based upon what wizards have invested in the player and not necessarily where they will be in the actual lineup):

Pg: Malcolm, Davis, butler
Sg: Poole, bub, Landry
Sf: Bilal, kispert, George
Pf: Kuzma, sarr, pbj
C: Bagley, Holmes, Tristan

Starting lineup is probably accurate. Davis probably won’t be in the second team, but other than that probably pretty accurate.


Bring Coulibaly off the bench behind Kispert and we can go for the worst defensive team of the 21st century.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#249 » by AFM » Thu Jun 27, 2024 3:33 pm

badinage wrote:Who cares?

They just shipped out the face of the franchise and the most lovable player in this town since John Wall.

There’s no point in watching — maybe every 10 games, to see the RAW, RAW pups and hope for some sparks.

But otherwise, it ain’t worth it. Check back here in a year — with, we hope, the first pick.


Deni is not the face of the franchise no matter how much we appreciated him on this board. Kuz is, at least for the time being, and soon it will be Sarr and Bilal. The French Duo.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#250 » by LyricalRico » Fri Jun 28, 2024 8:57 pm

AFM wrote:
badinage wrote:Who cares?

They just shipped out the face of the franchise and the most lovable player in this town since John Wall.

There’s no point in watching — maybe every 10 games, to see the RAW, RAW pups and hope for some sparks.

But otherwise, it ain’t worth it. Check back here in a year — with, we hope, the first pick.


Deni is not the face of the franchise no matter how much we appreciated him on this board. Kuz is, at least for the time being, and soon it will be Sarr and Bilal. The French Duo.


Nah...the French Connection. :nod:
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#251 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sat Jun 29, 2024 4:46 am

Ok so the infusion of 3 new rooks + Brogdon ...


Building block:

Vukcevic, Sarr, George, Coulibaly, Carrington



Potential Starting 5 w/ current roster:

Bagley, Sarr, Kuzma, Coulibaly, Poole


2nd Unit:

Vukcevic, Holmes, Kispert, Brogdon, Butler


3rd string:

Baldwin, Gill, George, Davis, Carrington
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#252 » by doclinkin » Sat Jun 29, 2024 6:35 pm

Marinating in it but over time I think we are gonna like aspects of these new guys.

PG Bub. Long, shot-creating PG. Rebounding well in traffic. Able to snatch misses forced by our outside defending Maginot line.

Forward. Huge long agile defenders in Bilal and Sarr. Neither is a reliable offensive threat from any level. But you can’t teach height says the cliche. Add one skill per year and they can be good enough to earn a name for themselves. Meanwhile the defense will only get better with strength and experience.

Shooters. Ok. We have weak defenders in our outside shooting forwards. KGeorge, Vuk, Corey. But offensively they all have read/react skills to take advantage of gaps and lapses. KyG and Vuk are tall enough to shoot over defenders. Both need to get stronger and more fit.

We need a beast rebounder and shot blocker in the middle. Ideally one that passes well from the hub position. Hits a decent jumper.

And we need a go-to all star.

But we are set up to both suck and have developing prospects. Which is pretty much the entire plan.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#253 » by remi_222 » Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:27 pm

Last yr Kuz played mostly Pf, and hope he goes more 3 allowing more space to Bilal, but he proved he wasnt a selfish player last season.
Now Sarr is there it makes more sense to go Poole Bilal Kuz Sarr Bagley
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#254 » by dckingsfan » Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:04 pm

Win now baby...

Wizards center Richaun Holmes has declined his $12.8 million player option in order to sign a new two-year, $25.9 million deal with the team through 2025-26 season.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#255 » by gambitx777 » Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:11 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Win now baby...

Wizards center Richaun Holmes has declined his $12.8 million player option in order to sign a new two-year, $25.9 million deal with the team through 2025-26 season.
Apparently it's a fake extension. Meaning the last year of the deal is only 250,000 guaranteed. So he's still Bassically a one year deal they can do at the dead line but it gives him a slight pay bump. Bassically doing him a favor.

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#256 » by dckingsfan » Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:22 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Win now baby...

Wizards center Richaun Holmes has declined his $12.8 million player option in order to sign a new two-year, $25.9 million deal with the team through 2025-26 season.
Apparently it's a fake extension. Meaning the last year of the deal is only 250,000 guaranteed. So he's still Basically a one year deal they can do at the deadline but it gives him a slight pay bump. Bassically doing him a favor.

Almost as good as the one we did for Portland. But we didn't help Vukcevic?
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#257 » by closg00 » Mon Jul 1, 2024 12:38 am

I wonder what the coaches marching orders are for the season, are we going to see vets playing heavy minutes and trying hard to win games?
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#258 » by tleikheen » Mon Jul 1, 2024 12:54 am

C ....Valenciunas
PF .... Kuzma
SF Brogden
SG Poole
PG Jones

Are the Wiz trying to win now ?
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#259 » by payitforward » Mon Jul 1, 2024 1:09 am

:)
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread - Part II 

Post#260 » by doclinkin » Mon Jul 1, 2024 6:30 pm

Bub will be the biggest beneficiary of our acquisition of Valanciunas. Bub is precocious in his work with screens & picks, and few players in the league set a sturdier screen than JV. We're gonna like watching him play peek-a-boo behind the wall of muscle that JV sets. Watching the two of them develop chemistry over the next 3 years will help Sarr understand how it is done in time for him to build muscle and take over.

My vision on the league going huge is seeing fruition I think. Players like JV (and Edey etc) were seen as dinosaurs in their inability to guard both inside and out, but dinosaurs are freaking awesome. Who hates dinosaurs?

Here we have the option of playing a huge front line where JV can stay within a giant step of the paint, while Sarr plays the role I envisioned for Castle: guard 1-4 on the perimeter and stifle penetration with his quicks and gigantitude. JV can still lock down the paint and guard the big boys straight up. On offense he smears the tall skinnies out of the way (Chet, Zingus, etc) and will still force a doubleteam at times. Which frees Sarr up to be ignored while he figures out whatever he can do out there, builds confidence.

We have the option to be huge. As these guys develop.

PG 6'4" Bub (with +4 wingspan). Needs a ranged shot, but doesn't need to finish, just pass well on the short roll, or hit a floater.
SG 6'9" Kyshawn George, with his guard history. Has the loooong range on his shot already, needs fitness work and fewer bacon bagels
SF Bilal and his tentacle arms. I hope he's been working on his game, adding a handle or reliable offensive move. But hits a corner 3ok
PF Sarr. All over the place. For better and for worse. Needs only strength confidence to learn to use his innate advantages.
C Brother Jonas. Few play bigger.

Not enough ranged shooting until Bub, Bilal, and Sarr develop. But if we can develop these guys in the weight room and with defensive coaching we could have a missile defense system on the outside, while still being able to stand up the bangers and bullies that are beginning to fill out the front court everywhere.

Interesting that Portland traded for Deni and drafted the UConn Klingon. They should be able to play the same way: drop defending big, made possible by a mobile defensive 4 who can stall attackers from the 3pt line and in.

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