To tank or retool?

[anotherhomer]

i'm a team tank man

[SaveTheHens]

The way Masai's approached tanking in the past is opportunistically, so I'd guess it'd be the same this year. The Tampa tank didn't start off as a tank but was committed to at one point & did well. Id imagine we try and win as many games as we can to start the season & if things go awry we may commit to another tank and/or make some more trades. I wouldn't sign any older free agents that can help a contendor but improving the team with relatively young players is worthwhile either way, I think if/when we do commit to the tank we'll find ways to rest our players.

[LoveMyRaps]

Quickley/Mitchell/(Shead)
Dick/Walter/(Shead)
Barrett/Ochai
Barnes/Vezenkov
Poeltl/Olynyk/Carlson

[Badonkadonk]

Lol at people who think this team will be a play-in team next year. We are going to be really bad next year. Just brace yourselves for a sub 30 win season.

If you are right, then trade Barnes, IQ and RJ. Cause they are not good enough to build around if they cant even be on 30 win pace. Damn without injuries to Barnes and Poeltl we would have a 30+ year despite all the turmoil during the season.

Dumb take....You don't trade your best young players cause they don't win you 35-40 games....What part of rebuild do people like you not understand?....We are building up good young talent through the draft....Getting rid of young players who are not ready to compete next year is illogical....You need to have patients and let the water make the grass grow...

Spurs have Wemby/Vassell/Cassell to build around, Would they get rid of Wemby if they don't make the playoffs next year....Ofc not...You need to add to him to rebuild....Same with all the other rebuilding teams in the NBA....We are no different...

Every rebuiling team or bottom feeders have some kind of a player on their team who is young they are holding onto ours is Barnes...We just need to play the draft a little more to add legit talent around him in order for us to get to where you expect us to be next year...Thats it thats all..

You missed the point. Year 2 Wemby is going to cap how bad the Spurs are going to be. He should have won DPOY last season and he'll have it on lockdown for the foreseeable future. Similarly, Year 4 Scottie is coming off his 1st all-star selection and most are hoping he continues a trajectory to All-NBA. He's not the same tier of prospect as Wemby obviously (hence Year 4), but he caps how bad the Raptors can be.

If you DON'T think he's "him", then the only way to have a decent shot at high-lottery is by moving off of the core you assembled and just proactively plan to be bad. This is especially true post-Knicks trade.

Some people are delusional about how bad this group are going to be next year, particularly since the only data we have with them all on the court together seems to indicate that it works. Realistically, the Hawks scenario is best case scenario for tanking (play-in, lose, get lucky). If that DOESN'T happen, something is seriously wrong with the young-20s core group the Raps have.

[Clutch0z24]

If you are right, then trade Barnes, IQ and RJ. Cause they are not good enough to build around if they cant even be on 30 win pace. Damn without injuries to Barnes and Poeltl we would have a 30+ year despite all the turmoil during the season.

Dumb take....You don't trade your best young players cause they don't win you 35-40 games....What part of rebuild do people like you not understand?....We are building up good young talent through the draft....Getting rid of young players who are not ready to compete next year is illogical....You need to have patients and let the water make the grass grow...

Spurs have Wemby/Vassell/Cassell to build around, Would they get rid of Wemby if they don't make the playoffs next year....Ofc not...You need to add to him to rebuild....Same with all the other rebuilding teams in the NBA....We are no different...

Every rebuiling team or bottom feeders have some kind of a player on their team who is young they are holding onto ours is Barnes...We just need to play the draft a little more to add legit talent around him in order for us to get to where you expect us to be next year...Thats it thats all..

You missed the point. Year 2 Wemby is going to cap how bad the Spurs are going to be. He should have won DPOY last season and he'll have it on lockdown for the foreseeable future. Similarly, Year 4 Scottie is coming off his 1st all-star selection and most are hoping he continues a trajectory to All-NBA. He's not the same tier of prospect as Wemby obviously (hence Year 4), but he caps how bad the Raptors can be.

If you DON'T think he's "him", then the only way to have a decent shot at high-lottery is by moving off of the core you assembled and just proactively plan to be bad. This is especially true post-Knicks trade.

Some people are delusional about how bad this group are going to be next year, particularly since the only data we have with them all on the court together seems to indicate that it works. Realistically, the Hawks scenario is best case scenario for tanking (play-in, lose, get lucky). If that DOESN'T happen, something is seriously wrong with the young-20s core group the Raps have.

Still its a dumb and illogical take to have....Basketball at the end of the day is a team sport not an individual sport....Barnes having a big year next year is no question....but that leading to us magically being a 40 win team seems unrealistic....Let me ask you this....Are you sure your not just being Bias in your thoughts about the team because your a fan?...

Imagine this team is not the Raps for a sec....Would you expect a team of Brunson/Quickley/Barrett/Yak with a bunch of young rookies on the bench to be a playoff team next year?....Insert any good player in the NBA Thats not on the MVP tier like Jokic/Shai/Luka types....Do you really expect that team to make noise?

For me we just lack the talent overall. Acting like Quickley won't have growing pains having to run a team for the first time in his NBA Career, And a RJ Barrett who had flaws in the past will just become better than Prime Siakam next year, And Barnes will be a MVP candidit next year seems a little unrealistic and people need to lower expectations...

We been told by the coach himself and the GM of the team we are going young/Develop and look out for draft picks in the future and in 2 years time we should be ready...And next years draft is not just a 1 player draft...Yeah getting the top pick would be amazing but even if we get a top 5 pick next year id be more than happy with it...We would still add an amazing player for BBQ to run with ...

[BlackThought]

The answer is neither. If we wanted to tank, we should've traded OG for picks or players still on year 1 or 2 of their rookie contracts. We traded OG for 2 guys where one of them was at the end of his rookie deals so tanking is no longer an option since 1. You would be paying close to the cap to lose and 2. These guys command this type of money because they are decent players thus ineffective tankers (unless you sit them).

So the answer is retool but because the upcoming draft is suppose to be great, the Raptors are going to wait until after next year to do so. This year will be a throwaway year where we win 30-35 games and barely miss the play-in. We will end up with a late lottery pick and will try to bolster our roster for the playoffs next off season.

Another reason why we are where we are is because we gave our pick to the Spurs. Had the pingpong balls bounced our way and we kept our pick, we would be retooling right now instead of in purgatory. That Jakob Poeltl trade is by far one of the Masai's worst trades of his entire GM career and I'm sure he knows it.

[PhilBlackson]

I wish we would trade Poeltl & just take that damn shot....Yak is a good player but a player like him is not unattainable in the future. There are plenty of decent Cs floating around (heck people can mock but don't tell me Kessler couldn't have been a fine replacement long term) & players like him, Hartenstein, Claxton etc....whoever can & will become available over the next several years as we rebuild BUT...

Seriously imagine getting any of Bailey (my personal fav), Flagg, Malauch, Nolan etc...it could truly alter the entire trajectory of this franchise & really if we can stay within the top 8 or so, I genuinely believe that we're all but guaranteed to draft a future franchise cornerstone.

I know fittingly a lot of people love Flagg, I can Masai being head over heels for Malauch (who would then also be the most unbelievable upgrade to Poeltl lol) but man I want us to draft Bailey!! He reminds so much of a Young TMac but even nastier & more of a dog! We'll see how he looks next year but I think he could be one of the next big faces of the league long term. An explosive athlete with dog attitude...we see the excitement that's generating around Ant, I can see a world where Ace develops a similar buzz if he reaches his potential, almost ironically like Kobe (Ant) & TMac (Ace)...I know they're not the exact same players but I'm talking more of how I can see these guys ranking in the future. I can see a world where Ace is seen the same way an ORL Tmac (not the same player but seen in a similar type of talent) was in his prime & I can see him being more of a lead dog that I'm not 1000% sure yet that Scottie may be but I feel confident Ace will be that guy and DAMN what a drool worthy duo that would be for the future.

Imagine this kid leading the way with Scottie....that would be such a scary sight & even more ironic probably the biggest draw since VC/TMac were here.

Watch on YouTube

#TANK4ACE

[SFour]

The way Masai's approached tanking in the past is opportunistically, so I'd guess it'd be the same this year. The Tampa tank didn't start off as a tank but was committed to at one point & did well. Id imagine we try and win as many games as we can to start the season & if things go awry we may commit to another tank and/or make some more trades. I wouldn't sign any older free agents that can help a contendor but improving the team with relatively young players is worthwhile either way, I think if/when we do commit to the tank we'll find ways to rest our players.

raptors don't have quality depth though, all it takes is 1 starter injury and the losses start racking up

[wegotthabeet]

Lol at people who think this team will be a play-in team next year. We are going to be really bad next year. Just brace yourselves for a sub 30 win season.

I think we end up in that 5-10 draft range. Hard to predict how the standings will shake out so early.

Washington
Detroit
Brooklyn
Charlotte
Chicago

Assuming a team like Atlanta or Miami don’t fall off completely that already puts them at 10th in the East.

They need to hit on next year’s pick, hopefully it’s top 5.

[Clutch0z24]

The way Masai's approached tanking in the past is opportunistically, so I'd guess it'd be the same this year. The Tampa tank didn't start off as a tank but was committed to at one point & did well. Id imagine we try and win as many games as we can to start the season & if things go awry we may commit to another tank and/or make some more trades. I wouldn't sign any older free agents that can help a contendor but improving the team with relatively young players is worthwhile either way, I think if/when we do commit to the tank we'll find ways to rest our players.

raptors don't have quality depth though, all it takes is 1 starter injury and the losses start racking up

Exactly this...The people who think we will be a 40 win team next year need to realize the chances of all the starters playing 82 games is slim to none...Guys will sit some games and our backups will be rookies or guys learning how to play in the NBA still...The losses will rack up when someone in the starting lineup sits for a few games.

[Clutch0z24]

I wish we would trade Poeltl & just take that damn shot....Yak is a good player but a player like him is not unattainable in the future. There are plenty of decent Cs floating around (heck people can mock but don't tell me Kessler couldn't have been a fine replacement long term) & players like him, Hartenstein, Claxton etc....whoever can & will become available over the next several years as we rebuild BUT...

Seriously imagine getting any of Bailey (my personal fav), Flagg, Malauch, Nolan etc...it could truly alter the entire trajectory of this franchise & really if we can stay within the top 8 or so, I genuinely believe that we're all but guaranteed to draft a future franchise cornerstone.

I know fittingly a lot of people love Flagg, I can Masai being head over heels for Malauch (who would then also be the most unbelievable upgrade to Poeltl lol) but man I want us to draft Bailey!! He reminds so much of a Young TMac but even nastier & more of a dog! We'll see how he looks next year but I think he could be one of the next big faces of the league long term. An explosive athlete with dog attitude...we see the excitement that's generating around Ant, I can see a world where Ace develops a similar buzz if he reaches his potential, almost ironically like Kobe (Ant) & TMac (Ace)...I know they're not the exact same players but I'm talking more of how I can see these guys ranking in the future. I can see a world where Ace is seen the same way an ORL Tmac (not the same player but seen in a similar type of talent) was in his prime & I can see him being more of a lead dog that I'm not 1000% sure yet that Scottie may be but I feel confident Ace will be that guy and DAMN what a drool worthy duo that would be for the future.

Imagine this kid leading the way with Scottie....that would be such a scary sight & even more ironic probably the biggest draw since VC/TMac were here.

Watch on YouTube

#TANK4ACE

Ace & Barnes would be a championship duo sim to Carter/T-Mac potential ....Ace fits alot better than Flagg with Barnes as well imo...Guy can create his own shot which is what the team needs.

[Appostis]

With the east loaded up, tank and rebuild.

Aim for success 2026-2027

[Thaddy]

The way Masai's approached tanking in the past is opportunistically, so I'd guess it'd be the same this year. The Tampa tank didn't start off as a tank but was committed to at one point & did well. Id imagine we try and win as many games as we can to start the season & if things go awry we may commit to another tank and/or make some more trades. I wouldn't sign any older free agents that can help a contendor but improving the team with relatively young players is worthwhile either way, I think if/when we do commit to the tank we'll find ways to rest our players.

raptors don't have quality depth though, all it takes is 1 starter injury and the losses start racking up

I'd argue we have quite a bit of depth, but the quality is questionable.

Poeltl - Olynyk/Carlson
Barnes - Vezenkov/Mogbo
Barrett - Agbaji/Walter
Dick - Brown/Walter
Quickely - Mitchell/Shead

I would also start Vezenkov instead of Dick. This would help our depth as well and push Barrett and Barnes to be better perimeter creators.

[Clutch0z24]

The way Masai's approached tanking in the past is opportunistically, so I'd guess it'd be the same this year. The Tampa tank didn't start off as a tank but was committed to at one point & did well. Id imagine we try and win as many games as we can to start the season & if things go awry we may commit to another tank and/or make some more trades. I wouldn't sign any older free agents that can help a contendor but improving the team with relatively young players is worthwhile either way, I think if/when we do commit to the tank we'll find ways to rest our players.

raptors don't have quality depth though, all it takes is 1 starter injury and the losses start racking up

I'd argue we have quite a bit of depth, but the quality is questionable.

Poeltl - Olynyk/Carlson
Barnes - Vezenkov/Mogbo
Barrett - Agbaji/Walter
Dick - Brown/Walter
Quickely - Mitchell/Shead

I would also start Vezenkov instead of Dick. This would help our depth as well and push Barrett and Barnes to be better perimeter creators.

Dick is starting next year...We are developing the young guys...The coach said that is his priority for the next little while....The depth is ok but its mostly full of players who are still not full time NBA players or rookies...The only Vets off the bench will be Vezenkov/Olynyk/Brown (Who is going to be gone sometime)...The rest we have not ever seen them produce that well in NBA mins or have not even played a minute of NBA basketball....So the depth is not all there in terms of winning basketball games...For development sure.

[Thaddy]

raptors don't have quality depth though, all it takes is 1 starter injury and the losses start racking up

I'd argue we have quite a bit of depth, but the quality is questionable.

Poeltl - Olynyk/Carlson
Barnes - Vezenkov/Mogbo
Barrett - Agbaji/Walter
Dick - Brown/Walter
Quickely - Mitchell/Shead

I would also start Vezenkov instead of Dick. This would help our depth as well and push Barrett and Barnes to be better perimeter creators.

Dick is starting next year...We are developing the young guys...The coach said that is his priority for the next little while....The depth is ok but its mostly full of players who are still not full time NBA players or rookies...The only Vets off the bench will be Vezenkov/Olynyk/Brown (Who is going to be gone sometime)...The rest we have not ever seen them produce that well in NBA mins or have not even played a minute of NBA basketball....So the depth is not all there in terms of winning basketball games...For development sure.

Darko will probably respect Vezenkov enough to consider starting him over a 20 year old. It makes us bigger and more balanced while fitting the 6'9 vision. Dick isn't physically ready to start, he's going to be a target on defense.

Poeltl / Olynyk
Vezenkov / Boucher
Barnes / Dick
Barrett / Brown
Quickely / Mitchell

The others:

Carlson
Mogbo
Agbaji
Walter
Shead

These guys are only getting opportunity when there will be injuries or if trades go down.