Klay to Dallas (Woj)

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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#121 » by basketballwacko2 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 5:56 am

HartfordWhalers wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:It’s sad that GSW is cutting costs now and not 1-2 years from now.. But also.. They’ve spent like crazy for a long time to give the fans and Curry the best chance possible.

They swung for another chance to contend and missed. Hard to blame the plug getting pulled when the music stops.


Sure... but maybe the idea of a Curry trade should be strongly considered now.
Spoiler:
He could maybe even get a Bridges style return


That would be a complete tear down and rebuild. Maybe the best thing for the franchise but it would suck for the fans.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#122 » by basketballwacko2 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 5:57 am

Mavrelous wrote:
basketballwacko2 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
TPE for sure. Maybe nothing else? Doesn't seem like they are due a first and Dallas has no 2nds so....



Did Dallas send a 2027 #1 to the Hornets for PJ?


Yes, top 2 protected.


I saw that and at first could not recall the deal.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#123 » by HornetJail » Tue Jul 2, 2024 7:34 am

Love this for Dallas. 2 2nds to turn Green into Klay on a very similar contract is great.

Side note- is the Charlotte part still on? Little confused by the reporting on the official trade. Did Green get traded into our cap space for 2 2nds? For nothing?

I'm fine with trading nothing though it wouldn't have been my first choice with this room. Hopefully it will be like having a healthy Cody Martin that's a less disastrous offensive player
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#124 » by shangrila » Tue Jul 2, 2024 8:37 am

HornetJail wrote:Love this for Dallas. 2 2nds to turn Green into Klay on a very similar contract is great.

Side note- is the Charlotte part still on? Little confused by the reporting on the official trade. Did Green get traded into our cap space for 2 2nds? For nothing?

I'm fine with trading nothing though it wouldn't have been my first choice with this room. Hopefully it will be like having a healthy Cody Martin that's a less disastrous offensive player

To my understanding Charlotte was sending at least one 2nd. I assume that one plus one from Dallas is what went to GS.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#125 » by daoneandonly » Tue Jul 2, 2024 11:55 am

jayjaysee wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:


I yield to people much smarter than me on this one. With the THJ and Green trades, couldnt Dallas have just signed Klay and Marshall outright? If so, what did they gain by doing a S&T? If not, how short were they after the two salary dumps?
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#126 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Jul 2, 2024 12:18 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:


I yield to people much smarter than me on this one. With the THJ and Green trades, couldnt Dallas have just signed Klay and Marshall outright? If so, what did they gain by doing a S&T? If not, how short were they after the two salary dumps?

dallas was still well over the cap after thj and green trades so they cant sign klay outright (he made more than MLE). MLE was used to sign Marshall outright.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#127 » by jayjaysee » Tue Jul 2, 2024 12:48 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:


I yield to people much smarter than me on this one. With the THJ and Green trades, couldnt Dallas have just signed Klay and Marshall outright? If so, what did they gain by doing a S&T? If not, how short were they after the two salary dumps?


Not without help.

Dallas could only sign one player to a deal at the MLE. Klay makes more than the MLE, but even pretending he took a discount - that means no Marshall. GSW was needed for the sign and trade. Or NOP was needed for a sign and trade if Klay was willing to take the MLE. Either way, Dallas needed help.

I like the offseason so far. Midseason Dallas can try to be aggressive if something presents itself, the 2025 first should be made very available or the 2031 or etc… but the team has improved.

Some are forgetting how bad THJ really played. It’s not enough to beat Boston, but it’s enough to help get Dallas back to Boston and maybe Kai has a better series.. maybe Luka can have a couple all-time type games.. etc.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#128 » by daoneandonly » Tue Jul 2, 2024 12:51 pm

jayjaysee wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:


I yield to people much smarter than me on this one. With the THJ and Green trades, couldnt Dallas have just signed Klay and Marshall outright? If so, what did they gain by doing a S&T? If not, how short were they after the two salary dumps?


Not without help.

Dallas could only sign one player to a deal at the MLE. Klay makes more than the MLE, but even pretending he took a discount - that means no Marshall. GSW was needed for the sign and trade. Or NOP was needed for a sign and trade if Klay was willing to take the MLE. Either way, Dallas needed help.

I like the offseason so far. Midseason Dallas can try to be aggressive if something presents itself, the 2025 first should be made very available or the 2031 or etc… but the team has improved.

Some are forgetting how bad THJ really played. It’s not enough to beat Boston, but it’s enough to help get Dallas back to Boston and maybe Kai has a better series.. maybe Luka can have a couple all-time type games.. etc.


Yes im a big fan of the offseason, which scares me. Because I was super happy that year we got Josh Richardson and James Johnson, and umm well.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#129 » by Scoot McGroot » Tue Jul 2, 2024 1:05 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
jayjaysee wrote:

Scoot McGroot wrote:


I yield to people much smarter than me on this one. With the THJ and Green trades, couldnt Dallas have just signed Klay and Marshall outright? If so, what did they gain by doing a S&T? If not, how short were they after the two salary dumps?


Jayjaysee and Godaddycurse answered it completely. Dallas didn’t have salary cap space to fit Klay’s contract, no matter how they arranged their order of operations or anything. And their MLE could only fit Naji. So they had to work a sign and trade for Klay.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#130 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Jul 2, 2024 1:07 pm

Eh, I think the off-season has been okay. Klay, even this version is a meaningful upgrade over THJ, but I'm not at all sold Marshall/Grimes are upgrades over Jones/Green and part of what helped Dallas this year was playing fast and those two guys were a huge part of that and its a downgrade athletically and it was nice last year to see Dallas not be at an athleticism deficit every game like they had been for years.

Now its probably fine and they can figure out what else they really need by the deadline, but I think its like a C+. Okay because they've spent no real assets and if Grimes finds his game lost no youth, but I don't think they've raised their ceiling much.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#131 » by jayjaysee » Tue Jul 2, 2024 1:30 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Eh, I think the off-season has been okay. Klay, even this version is a meaningful upgrade over THJ, but I'm not at all sold Marshall/Grimes are upgrades over Jones/Green and part of what helped Dallas this year was playing fast and those two guys were a huge part of that and its a downgrade athletically and it was nice last year to see Dallas not be at an athleticism deficit every game like they had been for years.

Now its probably fine and they can figure out what else they really need by the deadline, but I think its like a C+. Okay because they've spent no real assets and if Grimes finds his game lost no youth, but I don't think they've raised their ceiling much.


Yeah, I’d say B. Work around the margins and maintain flexibility/assets while slightly improving the roster overall..with hope of Klay/Grimes being more than they were last season.

Unless/until we see a meaningful player traded for something better than what Dallas got? The 2025 first should have been shopped, heavily IMO. But maybe it was.

Also.. Dallas still technically has 2.5-2.7 mil wiggle room from the apron if they keep the roster at 14 players from what I come up with... I know they will just fill the roster and move on.

But one can think up a Powell for 6-6.5 million dollar player, maybe take a chance on a guard to compete with Exum/Hardy for minutes? Or Maxi for 13 million dollar player. Or Powell and Maxi for 15 million dollar player and a vet min..

or even Lawson for 4 million dollar player works..

The offseason doesn’t have to be done..
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#132 » by daoneandonly » Tue Jul 2, 2024 1:31 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Eh, I think the off-season has been okay. Klay, even this version is a meaningful upgrade over THJ, but I'm not at all sold Marshall/Grimes are upgrades over Jones/Green and part of what helped Dallas this year was playing fast and those two guys were a huge part of that and its a downgrade athletically and it was nice last year to see Dallas not be at an athleticism deficit every game like they had been for years.

Now its probably fine and they can figure out what else they really need by the deadline, but I think its like a C+. Okay because they've spent no real assets and if Grimes finds his game lost no youth, but I don't think they've raised their ceiling much.


I'd give it a solid B, but I'm also a bit of a Naji stan since he went to high school in MD. This version of Klay is not a game changer by any means, but hopefully his experience can add a little something. Grimes can hopefully carve out a role similar to DJJ while I think Marshall could hopefully do very well.

Lots of hopefullys
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#133 » by realEAST » Tue Jul 2, 2024 4:09 pm

I'd say it was a pretty good offseason - they made a significant upgrade (Klay > THJ) while the rest is at least a wash, while retaining the 2025 1st to upgrade mid season or tank for C. Flagg ;)
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#134 » by daoneandonly » Tue Jul 2, 2024 6:51 pm

realEAST wrote:I'd say it was a pretty good offseason - they made a significant upgrade (Klay > THJ) while the rest is at least a wash, while retaining the 2025 1st to upgrade mid season or tank for C. Flagg ;)


Im known as a bit of a Green hater, but I think Marshall or Grimes is better than him. Its the DJJ loss vs the other that may prove problematic.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#135 » by realEAST » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:02 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
realEAST wrote:I'd say it was a pretty good offseason - they made a significant upgrade (Klay > THJ) while the rest is at least a wash, while retaining the 2025 1st to upgrade mid season or tank for C. Flagg ;)


Im known as a bit of a Green hater, but I think Marshall or Grimes is better than him. Its the DJJ loss vs the other that may prove problematic.


Jones jr. is probably the best point of attack defender of the group, but Grimes and Marshall are both good defensively and should be better shooters - you never know how the things turn out, but I'd guess Dallas should be fine there.

I am more skeptical towards Klay starting and repercussions of that, especially since he could play starter minutes coming off the bench, but it would be a more balanced lineup with Marshall starting.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#136 » by BeiBeau » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:06 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
realEAST wrote:I'd say it was a pretty good offseason - they made a significant upgrade (Klay > THJ) while the rest is at least a wash, while retaining the 2025 1st to upgrade mid season or tank for C. Flagg ;)


Im known as a bit of a Green hater, but I think Marshall or Grimes is better than him. It’s the DJJ loss vs the other that may prove problematic.


This is the biggest understatement of all time.

But I do think Grimes is significantly better than great and has more applicable skills.

Marshall is more well rounded, I think they’re fairly even.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#137 » by BeiBeau » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:11 pm

realEAST wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:
realEAST wrote:I'd say it was a pretty good offseason - they made a significant upgrade (Klay > THJ) while the rest is at least a wash, while retaining the 2025 1st to upgrade mid season or tank for C. Flagg ;)


Im known as a bit of a Green hater, but I think Marshall or Grimes is better than him. Its the DJJ loss vs the other that may prove problematic.


Jones jr. is probably the best point of attack defender of the group, but Grimes and Marshall are both good defensively and should be better shooters - you never know how the things turn out, but I'd guess Dallas should be fine there.

I am more skeptical towards Klay starting and repercussions of that, especially since he could play starter minutes coming off the bench, but it would be a more balanced lineup with Marshall starting.


Kidd pretty consistently does extremely early subs. I think we might see Kyrie sub out for Grimes or Marshall 3-4 minutes in.

In the aggregate I think Dallas got more defense. Grimes+Marshall > Green + DJJ. The problem defensively is Grimes and Marshall probably won’t be getting 55 minutes like Green and DJJ were getting in the 2nd half of the season. I think they’ll get closer to 45 minutes. Although Kleber might take a step back and Marshall could get some of those minutes.

I think we have more defense but we’re going to play offensive players more. But that’s a good think. We lost the finals because of offense.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#138 » by BeiBeau » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:26 pm

jayjaysee wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Eh, I think the off-season has been okay. Klay, even this version is a meaningful upgrade over THJ, but I'm not at all sold Marshall/Grimes are upgrades over Jones/Green and part of what helped Dallas this year was playing fast and those two guys were a huge part of that and its a downgrade athletically and it was nice last year to see Dallas not be at an athleticism deficit every game like they had been for years.

Now its probably fine and they can figure out what else they really need by the deadline, but I think its like a C+. Okay because they've spent no real assets and if Grimes finds his game lost no youth, but I don't think they've raised their ceiling much.


Yeah, I’d say B. Work around the margins and maintain flexibility/assets while slightly improving the roster overall..with hope of Klay/Grimes being more than they were last season.

Unless/until we see a meaningful player traded for something better than what Dallas got? The 2025 first should have been shopped, heavily IMO. But maybe it was.

Also.. Dallas still technically has 2.5-2.7 mil wiggle room from the apron if they keep the roster at 14 players from what I come up with... I know they will just fill the roster and move on.

But one can think up a Powell for 6-6.5 million dollar player, maybe take a chance on a guard to compete with Exum/Hardy for minutes? Or Maxi for 13 million dollar player. Or Powell and Maxi for 15 million dollar player and a vet min..

or even Lawson for 4 million dollar player works..

The offseason doesn’t have to be done..


I give it a B+ for a few reasons.

1. Dallas made a massive upgrade in their biggest weakness of outside shooting. And I think we are more diverse offensively, I’m really hoping Kidd is coming in to say “we’re going to move off ball more” just like he said they wanted to play with pace last year.

2. In the aggregate Dallas got significantly better in the dribble, pass, and shoot category. I think Dallas has fallen into hoping for 3&D guys to much. We need our players to be slightly less of specialists.

3. If we rewind the clock back to last TDL, even with even money, I think every one would’ve had Grimes as a significantly better player than green. Since then Grimes sucked on a small sample size on the worst team in a long time and then missed the last 3rd of the season. Meanwhile Green had a pretty mid 2nd half to the end of his season and got minutes on a final run but didn’t really wow for most of the run. I still think Grimes is significantly better, Dallas would’ve never dreamed of guarding Mitchell or Butler in the clutch in the playoffs with Green, the Knicks did that with Grimes and he performed solid.

4. With DJJ and Marshall, Dallas is looking for POA defense, but we also need shooting. I know Marshall only shot 39% last season and wasn’t a great shooter before that, but DJJ had his best shooting season last season too and only got to 34%. If both of them regress bad 3% Marshall is league average and DJJ might not be playable. if you average 3 and D skills for the two I think Marshall is better. Plus Marshall is better and creating, driving, passing, and rebounding.

5. Dallas did all this without using their 1st. I think if we’re grading Dallas an A would be “there better than or as good as Boston now”. A B is “they have a fighting chance”. A C is “they are treadmilling”. And a failing grade is they’re worse. I think Dallas could fight back now and could still improve with their 2 1sts.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#139 » by hugepatsfan » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:28 pm

Luka / Kyrie / this version of Klay is pretty horrendous on defense. I'm not sure that trio is going to be viable in the playoffs together. I think eventually he might have to move to the bench, and not sure they're going to be able to get his shooting in their closing lineups.
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Re: Klay to Dallas (Woj) 

Post#140 » by realEAST » Wed Jul 3, 2024 1:22 pm

Dallas has the ability to make another move, and it wouldn't surprise me if they made it during the season - if anything, I don't think there is a wing / forward that would be a significant upgrade to a team, that fits salary they can put together.

For one, I think they would want to evaluate the state of the team - how Grimes, and to lesser Marshall look, how's Exum after shaky playoffs, how much did Omax improve and can he have a role, how Hardy looks... and they could include some of these guys in deals with calmer heart.

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