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With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo

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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#301 » by grant101 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 4:25 am

Thaddy wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NivUui_gfRc[/youtube]

Looks better than Achiuwa shooting wise.


The most impressive part is how easily and quickly he gets up off of one or both feet. Very little load up time. Reminds me of a young Siakam and Gafford in this respect.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#302 » by Phezmo123 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 4:33 am

Does anyone think he has star potential? Or should I temper expectations
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#303 » by ForeverTFC » Tue Jul 2, 2024 4:37 am

Phezmo123 wrote:Does anyone think he has star potential? Or should I temper expectations


Temper expectations. He doesn't have a shot and grew up as a guard through high school. He's undersized to play the C position and he's older than Scottie. If he's a quality rotation player, it's a win at 31. No need to hope for more and then become disappointed when the chances are very very slim.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#304 » by Thaddy » Tue Jul 2, 2024 5:33 am

ForeverTFC wrote:
Phezmo123 wrote:Does anyone think he has star potential? Or should I temper expectations


Temper expectations. He doesn't have a shot and grew up as a guard through high school. He's undersized to play the C position and he's older than Scottie. If he's a quality rotation player, it's a win at 31. No need to hope for more and then become disappointed when the chances are very very slim.

You should be hyped. For the following reasons.

1. Late growth spurt, graduated HS as a 5'9 guard.
2. Same standing reach as Bam despite being 6'6.25 without shoes (6'8 with shoes).
3. Led NCAA in dunks.
4. Imagine Achiuwa with a handle and passing vision.
5. Statistical jump from years 3 to 4, and overall year to year.
6. Had great pre-draft shooting work outs.
7. Going to be signed to a full time spot so he will get rotation minutes (taking Achiuwa's role) and it means the front office is high on him.
8. Masai, a strong drafter, took him over several first round level talents like Filipowski, Kolek, Furphy, and even Smith.

He's going to be our best rookie and by very far next year. We have shooting talent that will open lanes for him in transition. He was an elite defender and despite the low block rate his steal rate was pretty high. The wingspan makes him disruptive, he has mobility, and he doesn't need to load up to jump high. He has a high chance of being one of our leaders when it comes to rebounding.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#305 » by PoundTown » Tue Jul 2, 2024 4:38 pm

ForeverTFC wrote:
Phezmo123 wrote:Does anyone think he has star potential? Or should I temper expectations


Temper expectations. He doesn't have a shot and grew up as a guard through high school. He's undersized to play the C position and he's older than Scottie. If he's a quality rotation player, it's a win at 31. No need to hope for more and then become disappointed when the chances are very very slim.


I don't really think star is in the equation, although, you probably said same thing about Jimmy Buckets going into his rookie year and probably even after rookie year, so it's not entirely impossible. I do think he's a reliable catch and shoot three point shooter from having elite role player potential though.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#306 » by MessiahUjiri » Tue Jul 2, 2024 4:44 pm

Thaddy wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:
Phezmo123 wrote:Does anyone think he has star potential? Or should I temper expectations


Temper expectations. He doesn't have a shot and grew up as a guard through high school. He's undersized to play the C position and he's older than Scottie. If he's a quality rotation player, it's a win at 31. No need to hope for more and then become disappointed when the chances are very very slim.

You should be hyped. For the following reasons.

1. Late growth spurt, graduated HS as a 5'9 guard.
2. Same standing reach as Bam despite being 6'6.25 without shoes (6'8 with shoes).
3. Led NCAA in dunks.
4. Imagine Achiuwa with a handle and passing vision.
5. Statistical jump from years 3 to 4, and overall year to year.
6. Had great pre-draft shooting work outs.
7. Going to be signed to a full time spot so he will get rotation minutes (taking Achiuwa's role) and it means the front office is high on him.
8. Masai, a strong drafter, took him over several first round level talents like Filipowski, Kolek, Furphy, and even Smith.

He's going to be our best rookie and by very far next year. We have shooting talent that will open lanes for him in transition. He was an elite defender and despite the low block rate his steal rate was pretty high. The wingspan makes him disruptive, he has mobility, and he doesn't need to load up to jump high. He has a high chance of being one of our leaders when it comes to rebounding.



He’s pretty useless if he can’t shoot. His passing won’t come into play because teams will sag off him.

Right now he’s solely a dunker who feasted on inferior and mostly younger college kids.

Precious Achiuwa was younger, bigger, a better rebounder and blocker, and shooter.

This is atleast a 2+ year project. This year he should just be learning reps and shooting. By next year if he’s got a 30%+ 3pt shot, we have something. Otherwise he will be a Guangdong All Star.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#307 » by Thaddy » Tue Jul 2, 2024 6:44 pm

MessiahUjiri wrote:He’s pretty useless if he can’t shoot. His passing won’t come into play because teams will sag off him.

Right now he’s solely a dunker who feasted on inferior and mostly younger college kids.

Precious Achiuwa was younger, bigger, a better rebounder and blocker, and shooter.

This is atleast a 2+ year project. This year he should just be learning reps and shooting. By next year if he’s got a 30%+ 3pt shot, we have something. Otherwise he will be a Guangdong All Star.

Mogbo has a short neck and bad posture. He has a 9' standing reach which is the same for Achiuwa.

Achiuwa:
6’9”
225lbs
7’2.25 wingspan
9’0 standing reach

Mogbo:
6'6"
217lbs
7’2 wingspan
9′0 standing reach

Achiuwa was younger, but he hasn't improved much since he was drafted.
Bigger? I wouldn't say so. Mogbo is wider with a lower center of gravity with the same standing reach.
Shooting? This is Mogbo by a mile, comparing their workouts you can see Mogbo's shot looks a lot more fluid and consistent. If you ever saw Achiuwa in warm ups he would have some very bad misses.
Vision? This is Mogbo by a country mile.

Not having a shot on the first day of the season doesn't mean Mogbo be a useless player. Boucher can't shoot and he's considered productive. Mogbo can set screens with his low center of gravity, and he will push teams in transition with his combination of girth, handles, and ability to see the floor.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#308 » by MessiahUjiri » Tue Jul 2, 2024 7:18 pm

Thaddy wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:He’s pretty useless if he can’t shoot. His passing won’t come into play because teams will sag off him.

Right now he’s solely a dunker who feasted on inferior and mostly younger college kids.

Precious Achiuwa was younger, bigger, a better rebounder and blocker, and shooter.

This is atleast a 2+ year project. This year he should just be learning reps and shooting. By next year if he’s got a 30%+ 3pt shot, we have something. Otherwise he will be a Guangdong All Star.

Mogbo has a short neck and bad posture. He has a 9' standing reach which is the same for Achiuwa.

Achiuwa:
6’9”
225lbs
7’2.25 wingspan
9’0 standing reach

Mogbo:
6'6"
217lbs
7’2 wingspan
9′0 standing reach

Achiuwa was younger, but he hasn't improved much since he was drafted.
Bigger? I wouldn't say so. Mogbo is wider with a lower center of gravity with the same standing reach.
Shooting? This is Mogbo by a mile, comparing their workouts you can see Mogbo's shot looks a lot more fluid and consistent. If you ever saw Achiuwa in warm ups he would have some very bad misses.
Vision? This is Mogbo by a country mile.

Not having a shot on the first day of the season doesn't mean Mogbo be a useless player. Boucher can't shoot and he's considered productive. Mogbo can set screens with his low center of gravity, and he will push teams in transition with his combination of girth, handles, and ability to see the floor.



Precious Achiuwa actually shot 3s in college, albeit on low volume.

Ogbo has never made a 3, and he’s much older than Precious was.

You have no idea what you’re talking about dude. Mogbo is older, has no shot whatsoever, and is more of a 4/3 rather than Precious who was a 4/5. That makes shooting even more important.

I’m rooting for the kid, but I’m not a homer.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#309 » by grant101 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 7:34 pm

Thaddy wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:He’s pretty useless if he can’t shoot. His passing won’t come into play because teams will sag off him.

Right now he’s solely a dunker who feasted on inferior and mostly younger college kids.

Precious Achiuwa was younger, bigger, a better rebounder and blocker, and shooter.

This is atleast a 2+ year project. This year he should just be learning reps and shooting. By next year if he’s got a 30%+ 3pt shot, we have something. Otherwise he will be a Guangdong All Star.

Mogbo has a short neck and bad posture. He has a 9' standing reach which is the same for Achiuwa.

Achiuwa:
6’9”
225lbs
7’2.25 wingspan
9’0 standing reach

Mogbo:
6'6"
217lbs
7’2 wingspan
9′0 standing reach

Achiuwa was younger, but he hasn't improved much since he was drafted.
Bigger? I wouldn't say so. Mogbo is wider with a lower center of gravity with the same standing reach.
Shooting? This is Mogbo by a mile, comparing their workouts you can see Mogbo's shot looks a lot more fluid and consistent. If you ever saw Achiuwa in warm ups he would have some very bad misses.
Vision? This is Mogbo by a country mile.

Not having a shot on the first day of the season doesn't mean Mogbo be a useless player. Boucher can't shoot and he's considered productive. Mogbo can set screens with his low center of gravity, and he will push teams in transition with his combination of girth, handles, and ability to see the floor.


Agreed. Also Precious was only 6'7.50” barefoot. Not sure why Mogbo's height keeps being referred to as 6'6 (barefoot), while other players he's compared to have their height in shoes mentioned. His functional height is his standing reach, and it's fine for a PF/Small-ball center.

OP's statement about rebounding is also wrong. Mogbo was a far better rebounder (22% vs 18.6% TRB).

I think the biggest difference between the two (outside of overall feel and vision) is Mogbo's hands and ability to finish inside (.640 vs .514 2P%). He catches everything and he gets up far quicker than Precious (and off of either one or two feet, which is huge!). He's going to make a much better vertical spacer. We haven't had a lob threat in forever. There are pathways for Mogbo to contribute, even in a limited role.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#310 » by grant101 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 7:38 pm

MessiahUjiri wrote:
Thaddy wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:He’s pretty useless if he can’t shoot. His passing won’t come into play because teams will sag off him.

Right now he’s solely a dunker who feasted on inferior and mostly younger college kids.

Precious Achiuwa was younger, bigger, a better rebounder and blocker, and shooter.

This is atleast a 2+ year project. This year he should just be learning reps and shooting. By next year if he’s got a 30%+ 3pt shot, we have something. Otherwise he will be a Guangdong All Star.

Mogbo has a short neck and bad posture. He has a 9' standing reach which is the same for Achiuwa.

Achiuwa:
6’9”
225lbs
7’2.25 wingspan
9’0 standing reach

Mogbo:
6'6"
217lbs
7’2 wingspan
9′0 standing reach

Achiuwa was younger, but he hasn't improved much since he was drafted.
Bigger? I wouldn't say so. Mogbo is wider with a lower center of gravity with the same standing reach.
Shooting? This is Mogbo by a mile, comparing their workouts you can see Mogbo's shot looks a lot more fluid and consistent. If you ever saw Achiuwa in warm ups he would have some very bad misses.
Vision? This is Mogbo by a country mile.

Not having a shot on the first day of the season doesn't mean Mogbo be a useless player. Boucher can't shoot and he's considered productive. Mogbo can set screens with his low center of gravity, and he will push teams in transition with his combination of girth, handles, and ability to see the floor.



Precious Achiuwa actually shot 3s in college, albeit on low volume.

Ogbo has never made a 3, and he’s much older than Precious was.

You have no idea what you’re talking about dude. Mogbo is older, has no shot whatsoever, and is more of a 4/3 rather than Precious who was a 4/5. That makes shooting even more important.

I’m rooting for the kid, but I’m not a homer.


Sure, Precious shot threes, but he really shouldn't have. He shot 59% on his freethrows and only 32.5% on 3ptrs (on .4 attempts). That Memphis team was an undisciplined joke.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#311 » by MessiahUjiri » Tue Jul 2, 2024 7:41 pm

grant101 wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:
Thaddy wrote:Mogbo has a short neck and bad posture. He has a 9' standing reach which is the same for Achiuwa.

Achiuwa:
6’9”
225lbs
7’2.25 wingspan
9’0 standing reach

Mogbo:
6'6"
217lbs
7’2 wingspan
9′0 standing reach

Achiuwa was younger, but he hasn't improved much since he was drafted.
Bigger? I wouldn't say so. Mogbo is wider with a lower center of gravity with the same standing reach.
Shooting? This is Mogbo by a mile, comparing their workouts you can see Mogbo's shot looks a lot more fluid and consistent. If you ever saw Achiuwa in warm ups he would have some very bad misses.
Vision? This is Mogbo by a country mile.

Not having a shot on the first day of the season doesn't mean Mogbo be a useless player. Boucher can't shoot and he's considered productive. Mogbo can set screens with his low center of gravity, and he will push teams in transition with his combination of girth, handles, and ability to see the floor.



Precious Achiuwa actually shot 3s in college, albeit on low volume.

Ogbo has never made a 3, and he’s much older than Precious was.

You have no idea what you’re talking about dude. Mogbo is older, has no shot whatsoever, and is more of a 4/3 rather than Precious who was a 4/5. That makes shooting even more important.

I’m rooting for the kid, but I’m not a homer.


Sure, Precious shot threes, but he really shouldn't have. He shot 59% on his freethrows and only 32.5% on 3ptrs (on .4 attempts). That Memphis team was an undisciplined joke.



Mogbo shot 43% (!) on Free Throws as a Junior.

:lol:


Stop gaslighting people - Mogbo’s shooting is pathetic.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#312 » by grant101 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 7:42 pm

MessiahUjiri wrote:
grant101 wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:

Precious Achiuwa actually shot 3s in college, albeit on low volume.

Ogbo has never made a 3, and he’s much older than Precious was.

You have no idea what you’re talking about dude. Mogbo is older, has no shot whatsoever, and is more of a 4/3 rather than Precious who was a 4/5. That makes shooting even more important.

I’m rooting for the kid, but I’m not a homer.


Sure, Precious shot threes, but he really shouldn't have. He shot 59% on his freethrows and only 32.5% on 3ptrs (on .4 attempts). That Memphis team was an undisciplined joke.



Mogbo shot 43% (!) on Free Throws as a Junior.

:lol:


Stop gaslighting people - Mogbo’s shooting is pathetic.


Good thing we're not selecting him after his junior year then
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#313 » by Syd-TK3 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 7:55 pm

Yeah not to nitpick but if we comparing players the actual measurements from the combine are

Precious
6'7.50" Height w/o shoes
6'8.75" Height with shoes
7'0.75" Wingspan

Mogbo
6'6.25" Height w/o shoes
6'7.50" Height with shoes (assuming same shoe ratio)
7'2.0" Wingspan

Standing reach is exact same 9'0.50"
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#314 » by MessiahUjiri » Tue Jul 2, 2024 8:31 pm

grant101 wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:
grant101 wrote:
Sure, Precious shot threes, but he really shouldn't have. He shot 59% on his freethrows and only 32.5% on 3ptrs (on .4 attempts). That Memphis team was an undisciplined joke.



Mogbo shot 43% (!) on Free Throws as a Junior.

:lol:


Stop gaslighting people - Mogbo’s shooting is pathetic.


Good thing we're not selecting him after his junior year then



You were the one to bring up Achiuwa’s first year college FT%, and now you’re saying not to look up the same for Mogbo?
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#315 » by dohboy_24 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 8:38 pm

MessiahUjiri wrote:
He’s pretty useless if he can’t shoot. His passing won’t come into play because teams will sag off him.

Right now he’s solely a dunker who feasted on inferior and mostly younger college kids.

Precious Achiuwa was younger, bigger, a better rebounder and blocker, and shooter.

This is atleast a 2+ year project. This year he should just be learning reps and shooting. By next year if he’s got a 30%+ 3pt shot, we have something. Otherwise he will be a Guangdong All Star.


Image

It took more than a couple of seasons for Spicy P to consistently shoot above 30% from 3 point range and ultimately become the player he developed into after coming into the league at a similar age.

Even if it takes longer than a season or two for him to develop into a player of similar stature, I don't think the FO would give up on him so quickly after selecting him.
Raptors record prediction: 45-37 (6th place in the East)
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#316 » by grant101 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 8:45 pm

MessiahUjiri wrote:
grant101 wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:

Mogbo shot 43% (!) on Free Throws as a Junior.

:lol:


Stop gaslighting people - Mogbo’s shooting is pathetic.


Good thing we're not selecting him after his junior year then



You were the one to bring up Achiuwa’s first year college FT%, and now you’re saying not to look up the same for Mogbo?


Ok, Precious' first two years in the league were 50.9% and 59.5% FT%. The point is, neither were shooters out of college (or at the same age, if you prefer). That said, other touch indicators favour Mogbo and it would not surprise me if he becomes at least acceptable from 3 (though admittedly, he may never get there).

Again, I'm not holding my breath that he'll turn into some great shooter, I think he provides a lot of value outside of being able to consistently shoot it from deep (defence, playmaking, rebounding, pushing the pace in transition, vertical spacing, etc.).

IMO, if he fails it's not because of his shot - it's because he never develops an in-between game and continues to struggle on non-dunk post finishes.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#317 » by Thaddy » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:39 pm

MessiahUjiri wrote:
grant101 wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:

Precious Achiuwa actually shot 3s in college, albeit on low volume.

Ogbo has never made a 3, and he’s much older than Precious was.

You have no idea what you’re talking about dude. Mogbo is older, has no shot whatsoever, and is more of a 4/3 rather than Precious who was a 4/5. That makes shooting even more important.

I’m rooting for the kid, but I’m not a homer.


Sure, Precious shot threes, but he really shouldn't have. He shot 59% on his freethrows and only 32.5% on 3ptrs (on .4 attempts). That Memphis team was an undisciplined joke.



Mogbo shot 43% (!) on Free Throws as a Junior.

:lol:


Stop gaslighting people - Mogbo’s shooting is pathetic.

He shot even more FTs the following year and shot slightly under 70%. The improvement is a great thing, it's obvious he's getting use to his new body. A 5'9 guard that went through a growth spurt will have an adjustment period.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#318 » by REJECTEDBYCLARK » Tue Jul 2, 2024 10:42 pm

MessiahUjiri wrote:
grant101 wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:

Precious Achiuwa actually shot 3s in college, albeit on low volume.

Ogbo has never made a 3, and he’s much older than Precious was.

You have no idea what you’re talking about dude. Mogbo is older, has no shot whatsoever, and is more of a 4/3 rather than Precious who was a 4/5. That makes shooting even more important.

I’m rooting for the kid, but I’m not a homer.


Sure, Precious shot threes, but he really shouldn't have. He shot 59% on his freethrows and only 32.5% on 3ptrs (on .4 attempts). That Memphis team was an undisciplined joke.



Mogbo shot 43% (!) on Free Throws as a Junior.

:lol:


Stop gaslighting people - Mogbo’s shooting is pathetic.


Mogbo has really bad touch, which is partially why I have loved the Precious w/ IQ+passing comp. IMO there is little hope for Mogbo when it comes to shooting but you know how Masai rolls, they will give him 2-3 years to figure out how to become a wing even if there's a 5% chance he's able to become a functional NBA wing.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#319 » by REJECTEDBYCLARK » Tue Jul 2, 2024 10:57 pm

Phezmo123 wrote:Does anyone think he has star potential? Or should I temper expectations


He has zero star potential. The guy from Swish Theory was in on him early and tried making a statement by leaving him insanely high on his board but it's not justified IMO.

That said he could really be a + role player. You will hope for stat lines/production like a slightly poorer Brandon Clarke and Brandon Clarke has been the 3rd most valuable player of his draft class. At the end of the day Mogbo will hopefully return late lottery value in this class.
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Re: With the 31st pick, the Raptors select Jonathan Mogbo 

Post#320 » by RoteSchroder » Tue Jul 2, 2024 11:28 pm

MessiahUjiri wrote:
grant101 wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:

Precious Achiuwa actually shot 3s in college, albeit on low volume.

Ogbo has never made a 3, and he’s much older than Precious was.

You have no idea what you’re talking about dude. Mogbo is older, has no shot whatsoever, and is more of a 4/3 rather than Precious who was a 4/5. That makes shooting even more important.

I’m rooting for the kid, but I’m not a homer.


Sure, Precious shot threes, but he really shouldn't have. He shot 59% on his freethrows and only 32.5% on 3ptrs (on .4 attempts). That Memphis team was an undisciplined joke.



Mogbo shot 43% (!) on Free Throws as a Junior.

:lol:


Stop gaslighting people - Mogbo’s shooting is pathetic.


A 26% improvement is actually a good sign, but I think the hope would be that he at least reaches an Ochai level of scoring where he just takes open 3’s and cuts to the basket (with much better finishing ability).

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