Hartenstein to OKC

[Hair Canada]

As for OG, Hartenstein still shared over a quarter of his total minutes with him, and his defensive rating was 102 with OG and 114.8 without which is a massive difference. Hard to imagine that didn't have an impact on these stats.

Well, if that's your argument, then Poeltl shared an even larger portion of his minutes with OG (and with Scottie Barnes, who's ranked before any of the other Knicks players), and still he had a DEPM of about 0.

[Los_29]

Nice of all you guys to stand by your guy. Pretty sure if the huge statistical differences on a well-regarded advanced metric was the other way around, y'all would shout it from the roof top and tell us how this is indisputable evidence. But since that's not the case, the "facts" become some rumors (which I was actually the one to mention here) that OKC might have at some point (I still don't know when exactly, but you seem to know it was right before they signed Hartenstein and that they wanted Poeltl more) wanted to trade for Poeltl. Fine, I don't see a point in arguing with that. No disrespect to Poeltl, who's a fine player (though that's about it). But again, if I'm OKC, I'm very happy with how things turned out.

I think the main point of all of this is that you’re drastically overrating three months of production from Hartenstein. The reality is he was a bench player that played around 17 minutes a game before injuries hit the Knicks. Also was a bench player in LA and everywhere else he has played. Even at his best on a great team he still put up worse numbers than Poeltl.

If rumours were true then Presti would have rather traded assets for Poeltl than to get Hartenstein for free.

It’s great OKC got a center but I don’t think this was Presti’s master plan to use all his cap space for a career back-up center. Is that his big fish? lol.

[nikster]

Well, if that's your argument, then Poeltl shared an even larger portion of his minutes with OG (and with Scottie Barnes, who's ranked before any of the other Knicks players), and still he had a DEPM of about 0.

Well that was part of my argument. The other part was that Mitchell Robinson had similar impact stats despite being physically limited in a quarter of his minutes. Which tells me those stats were about role. I can't find DEPM stats for past years but I'd bet it's not as impactful.

Raptors were filled with poor defenisve role players tho and not even OG had the same impact in Toronto he had in New York. Poeltl was +2 team defensive rating with OG on the floor while Hartenstein was +12.

Those stats might be relatively good but like any advanced stat they can never be relied on on there own. How can you explain the massive gulf with Hartenstein and Poeltl based on what they bring to the floor? How can you explain Hartenstein being so far ahead of Rudy Gobert, or how Robinson had the same DEPM as Gobert?

[Hair Canada]

Nice of all you guys to stand by your guy. Pretty sure if the huge statistical differences on a well-regarded advanced metric was the other way around, y'all would shout it from the roof top and tell us how this is indisputable evidence. But since that's not the case, the "facts" become some rumors (which I was actually the one to mention here) that OKC might have at some point (I still don't know when exactly, but you seem to know it was right before they signed Hartenstein and that they wanted Poeltl more) wanted to trade for Poeltl. Fine, I don't see a point in arguing with that. No disrespect to Poeltl, who's a fine player (though that's about it). But again, if I'm OKC, I'm very happy with how things turned out.

I think the main point of all of this is that you’re drastically overrating three months of production from Hartenstein. The reality is he was a bench player that played around 17 minutes a game before injuries hit the Knicks. Also was a bench player in LA and everywhere else he has played. Even at his best on a great team he still put up worse numbers than Poeltl.

If rumours were true then Presti would have rather traded assets for Poeltl than to get Hartenstein for free.

It’s great OKC got a center but I don’t think this was Presti’s master plan to use all his cap space for a career back-up center. Is that his big fish? lol.

Guess we'll have to wait and see. I think Presti and the Thunder are quite thrilled with this result. And for my money, this makes OKC the best team in the west. Poeltl might have been nice as well for the Thunder, as overall they are similar players (and as I said, I have nothing against him), but I think Hartenstein is even better -- FT%, offensive rebound, and defense.

[Merit]

Okay, for all of you who still think we're in the 1990s and you just look at players' traditional stats and make a judgement call, newsflash: there's something now called advanced stats that can tell us a bit more about players and their worth.

I see everyone here celebrating the Raptors having poeltl on a contract that is 19 million instead of Hartenstein's 29 million and deducing that the Thunder wildely overpaid.

Well, some people already mentioned the wildely different situations (a lottery team vs. a team in position to take over the West and may the league) and you can add the declining contract structure for Hartenstein and the team option on the third year.

But how about the comparison itself (between Poeltl and Hartenstein)? After all, two White European centers with similar size, who can't really shoot, are not elite athletes, and don't score in bunches.

Well, offensively, Hartenstein is a more efficient player. He's a much better FT shooter and his TS% is also better (4th in the league for players with at least 40 games and at least 20 mintues per game. He's also a better offensive rebounder (second in offensive rebound rate in the league, behind Clint Capela). And for my moeny, he's also a better passer and ball mover than Peoltl.

But the big difference between them is on the defensive end. Hartenstein last year had the second-best defensive EPM in the league (behind Jonathan Isaac). Poeltl if you wondered, was not among the top 150. Hart is an elite rim defender, puts a body on opposing bigs, plays smart, and grabs rebounds. In short, everything the Thunder were missing last year against the Maveriks (Lively and Gafford outrebounded Chet and J-Will 22-5 in the deciding game 6 of the Western semifinals).

And for those who think that the Thudner just paid this for a backup center to Chet, that's also silly. Yes there's a chance Hartenstein doesn't start. But there's no reason he can't play alongside Chet for long stretches. And against teams like Denver, the Timberwolves, and Dallas, he and Chet can also be closing games. Chet played the 4 in college next to a center who couldn't shoot (Drew Timme) and looked great. He can shoot, space the game, and create, and together they make a formidable defensive frontcourt.

The Thunder now have maximum lineup flexibility (And endless depth). You wanna play small? put in the starting-5 from last year, but now with Caruso instead of Giddey, so that oposing centers can't cheat on him anymore. Wanna play big? Shai-Caruso-J-Dub-Chet-Hartenstein is as big as they come and as defensively talented has you have in the league (Shai, Caruso, and Hartenstein were all top-12 in the league in DBPM last year, and Chet and J-Dub were already great and should only improve).

For my moeny, they are the team to beat in the West and real title contenders with how thin the Celtics bench is.

A few comments. Hartenstein is black.

Second, he played on a thibs team with solid defenders at all positions.

Third, OKC did the right thing by choosing to pay him a front loaded contract instead of paying for poeltl’s contract using draft and player capital. They made the right choice for them.

Yeah, OKC is gonna be amazing next year.

[Hair Canada]

His dad is (half) Black and his mom is White. It's an interesting quetion -- how much Black ancestry do you need to have to be defined as Black. But he's as light skinned as Poeltl, so in terms of public perception (which is what's most relevant when people compare the two), they're often put in the same category.