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Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#321 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:21 pm

lastb1ckman wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Beenie wrote:
Trading Niko?

C Bam C Ware C Love C Bryant
PF Niko

What in the phuckin boneheaded roster construction is this?


Hmm, I wonder how to rotation will play out next season. What if we really are playing big? With possibly no highsmith or Caleb, what if Love is moving back to back up PF?

Love moving back to PF is the only sane explanation but Spo somehow doesn’t align with the roster construction that’s given to him. Look no further than last year. Having to endure Love with Martin/Highsmith front courts. This year he’ll be killing JJJ’s value by overplaying him at the 4.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#322 » by greg4012 » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:23 pm

Grumpy Heat Fan wrote:
SoFlaKingReal wrote:
AirP. wrote:But, without Wade, you don't get LeBron, you don't get Butler. You can create a great environment and never get high level players unless you have a voice of a top tier player advocating for that environment, but Miami's FO did execute the plans that Wade basically created.

Riley was in Miami 7 years before Wade was drafted, one ECF happened, Wade shows up and it's 2nd round, ECF, NBA Finals the next 3 years, Wade, LeBron and Bosh talk about playing together and are willing to take less to do it and Riley/Miami work the roster/trades to make it happen easier than just taking huge salary cuts. Miami was going nowhere after Wade left, Butler shows up and then Miami makes the ECF 3 times in 5 years. MJ made Chicago into a winner although Krause took any credit he could, the misses by the FO during that era was huge. Players run the league.



Riley has been successful everywhere he's been....LA, New York, Miami. Of course a coach/GM needs elite players to win, and Riley has been blessed with more than his fair share of them...Magic/Kareem, Ewing, Zo/Wade/Shaq/LeBron. Phil Jackson is another legendary figure who has been blessed with GOAT talent throughout his career. Does that mean Riley and Phil were just along for the ride?


I think we've lost sight of the point

We don't have that Riley anymore

We have Sleepy Pat that has been bad for a while now. This is the Pat we are talking about. Not 20 years ago pat.


Looks like you're just changing the point
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#323 » by lastb1ckman » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:27 pm

Based on last season, I think Bam and Jovic are the starting 4 & 5 at the beginning of the season. Ware is still young and learning NBA ball, so he likely won't get lots of run until later in the season. In the meantime, we have Love and Byrant to take up the back up 5 & 4. Hopefully by the end of the season its Bam and Jovic starting and Ware and Love off the bench. Byrant is the 3rd string.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#324 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:27 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
AirP. wrote:
Read on Twitter

No trade protection :lol: :cry:


That leaves him, LeBron and Beal as the only players in the league with a NTC, LETS GO!!!
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#325 » by lastb1ckman » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:28 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:
lastb1ckman wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:C Bam C Ware C Love C Bryant
PF Niko

What in the phuckin boneheaded roster construction is this?


Hmm, I wonder how to rotation will play out next season. What if we really are playing big? With possibly no highsmith or Caleb, what if Love is moving back to back up PF?

Love moving back to PF is the only sane explanation but Spo somehow doesn’t align with the roster construction that’s given to him. Look no further than last year. Having to endure Love with Martin/Highsmith front courts. This year he’ll be killing JJJ’s value by overplaying him at the 4.


I mean that wouldn't be out of Jaquez's wheelhouse. He played a lot of small ball 4 in college, so I figured Spo would look at that angle eventually lol
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#326 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:28 pm

We really might have enough now; screw FA/trades let’s get to work
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#327 » by greg4012 » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:30 pm

Despite the fun Spo narratives everyone loves to run with, Miami shifted to A LOT more drop coverage rather than pure switching last season. And started 6'11 Jovic next to Bam for the back half of the season.

Bryant signing is weird, but I agree it makes sense to think that Miami is planning to run more big lineups with Love playing along Bam and possibly Ware and Bryant each playing alongside Bam (or Jovic), as well.

I'd imagine Orlando Robinson won't be around next season. In no scenario is Love gonna get more than his 15 mpg.

I don't think anyone should reasonably expect for Ware to be ready to contribute core rotation minutes off the bat. His path will likely look more like Jovic's than Jaquez's. Remember that Jovic's development was delayed by back spasms rookie year, so it doesn't have to mean he'll barely get any burn until year 2. But, the reasonable expectation should be for him to be brought along slowly.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#328 » by MorbidHEAT » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:30 pm

Beenie wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46

Yay!


I’m calling this off season a win. We retained both Kevin Love and Thomas Bryant. Yessir, we are ready to compete…for the 7th and 8th seeds.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#329 » by SoFlaKingReal » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:31 pm

For the record, the Heat did not give Thomas Bryant a "no trade clause". It is just the result of a quirk in the CBA:

"A player who re-signs with his previous team on a one-year contract – or a two-year deal with an option year – is given no-trade protection, unless he agrees to give up that protection when he inks his deal. That group doesn’t include players on two-way contracts, but it does include players who accept standard (non two-way) one-year qualifying offers."
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#330 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:31 pm

C Bam Adebayo C Kelel Ware C Thomas Bryant
PF Niko Jovic PF Kevin Love
SF Jimmy Butler SF/PF Jaime Jaquez Jr
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#331 » by greg4012 » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:35 pm

greg4012 wrote:

For any sickos that wanna dive deep


Just finished up watching the 2.5 hours of Ware game tape linked above. Took some scattered notes. Nothing groundbreaking. Ware's length and athleticism are real gamechangers on the court. He's thin and light in the a** and needs to add strength/weight.

When he knows where he's going and what he wants to do, he can do it in an elite way. Oftentimes, he's a step delayed or lost while processing things and that's where the lapses come from. My biggest takeaway is that I did not see any motor or attitude issues. He goes hard and seems to care. This only further validates that he has the "want to" to improve and compete on the court. THat was the hope in seeing the Heat draft him after working him out, interviewing him, and doing their due diligence. I feel even better about his attitude concerns being a bit of a false flag after watching the game tape.

OFFENSE:

- His touch is legit and he looks natural getting up shots on all 3 levels of the court.

- Doesn’t really seem to have any go-to offensive moves--freestyling everything but looks comfortable/natural doing a lot of things on offense. He needs to develop 1 or 2 go-to rhythm moves where when he unexpectedly gets the ball or needs to be the source offense in a bind, he can get into his rhythm shots.

- I’m encouraged by him working as a connective passer. Showed general awareness to move the ball to open guys. I don’t expect him to ever be a creator. He’s a connective passer and a play finisher IMO. Not a blackhole with tunnel vision. Capable passer—showed range in the type of passes he made and difficulty level.

- He would work as a zone buster in middle of court; good at finding cutters; looks natural passing from the perimeter and moving the ball

- His assist numbers probably would have been better if he had capable shooters around him. Indiana's spacing was abysmal. Indiana ranked 265th in the nation in team 3pt% (32%) and 344th in team 3PA per game (out of 351 teams). Ware was constantly dealing with a lot of bodies/traffic around him in the paint on offense.

- Ware is not currently a people mover (boxing out or screening), but he seemed to be a much more willing screener than I was expecting. Between working on his technique and strength, I think he'll be a positive on that front sooner rather than later (just look at Niko's progression on that front in 1 year).

- He needs to "find work" more often when off the ball. A lot of this falls on coaching IMO and my general takeaway overall--Ware needs to have defined specialized roles early on that he can focus on executing with full confidence.

- Most of his turnovers seemed to come when the offense is stuck and he's trying to create offense (no reliable go-to move). I did not see a ton of errant passes/bad decisions. As noted, he dealt with A LOT of traffic/bodies in the paint.

- Some ball security issues arose from Ware not being strong enough in the paint. Ware would often get stripped by a 2nd or 3rd body in the paint when he brings the ball down to get into a move to try to score/create.

- A few turnovers were from moving screen calls on offense--I can dig it because it showed his desire to move people instead of slipping screens and avoiding contact.

- He showed no signs of a functional handle at Indiana. Would almost never even dribble the ball up after a rebound in transition. It seemed like he was specifically told not to do so. A few of his turnovers were the result of him putting the ball on the floor. I wouldn't bank on Ware being much of an off the dribble driver early on.

DEFENSE:

- Ware's combination of length and movement ability is rare. It shows up on the court well beyond his block numbers. It impacts how drivers approach the paint and put up shots.

- From the tape I saw, Ware is not a shut down defender today. He's inconsistent with elite tools. He also clearly was not in a system or context to be a shut down defender.

- Ware didn't have good defensive teammates around him to make his job any easier. Indiana ranked 234th in defensive efficiency this season. Indiana had 4 of 5 new starters this season. The 1 returning starter was Trey Galloway (Senior). He was the worst defensive starter on last year's Indiana team that tanked 102nd defensively. The other 3 starters along Ware were 2 freshman and a Sophomore transfer (so 4 of 5 starters weren't with the program last year).

- Ware's full extended length shows up a lot and makes things difficult for the opposition. He highpoints rebounds and alters a lot of shots by extending and being a long wall defensively.

- Ware's length and coordination consistently show up defensively--including getting hands on balls that appear to be going through clean passing lanes (deflections). He's not lumbering defensively--he looks natural moving on defense even when he's out in space.

- He looks engaged defensively, but sometimes appears a step slow processing or being certain what action to take in team defense (sometimes he's ball watching too much as a result).

- Ware needs to work on his body positioning and footwork mirroring defensively. With his physical skills, there is a A LOT of upside if he can get more consistent with his footwork and use of body positioning for team defense. Indiana's defensive rotations were poor as a whole (see defensive efficiency rating).

- Ware looks good sliding his feet when guarding along the perimeter. Often times you see drivers spazz out as they expect to be able to blow by Ware off a switch but he stays with them stride for stride. Perimeter players aren't going to just walk past him. Ware was susceptible to getting put on skates with craft double moves, though.

- Ware uses his length well, but his weaker base consistently shows up when battling for positioning in the paint.

- Ware is more of a reactionary defender than he is an anticipatory defender at this point. He shows discipline by not jumping at every shot fake. He actually looked too delayed at times in reacting. I wonder if some of this was him being coached to not overreact.

- Ware is a very good shotblocker and rim deterrent. But, I can't place him in the elite category as a shotblocker.

- Ware faced Zach Edey twice this season. Edey got his against Indiana. Refs called A LOT of tick tack fouls against Ware vs Edey. Interestingly, when you dig a little deeper, you find that Edey's 3rd and 4th least efficient games of the season were in the matchup against Ware. Ware battled and made it hard for Edey on a possession by possession basis in the paint. Very encouraging IMO. He blocked Edey numerous times (more than accounted for in the official stats).

FINAL THOUGHTS:

- Ware will benefit GREATLY from quality coaching, working within defined systems, NBA spacing, and operating as a supporting piece rather than the primary offensive option and defensive anchor.

- The 2 biggest boosts to Ware's impact will come from gaining functional strength and operating within a clearly defined role.

- When Ware knows where he wants to go, his athleticism and length are impressive to see on display.

- I believe his shooting touch is for real and Miami should have him working as a floor spacer from the jump.

I'm excited to watch Ware play. I believe and hope he should get some rotation minutes from the get-go as a backup center, but Miami will need to be patient with his development. I expect Ware to follow a similar trajectory to Jovic with regards to weight gain and developing the toolkit to bump with bigs (screening, boxing out, etc). I think Ware's natural physical gifts and shooting touch should allow him to slot into a low usage off-ball role from the jump where he's solely a play finisher and not hunting for his own offense. Defensively, he'll need developmental time to defend the stronger frontcourt players. He can have his greatest impact in a limited role where he "hides" on corner 3 pt shooters and doubles as the weakside rim protector.

If Ware fills out his frame to eventually be a 245+ pound big and can play confidently within his specifically designated role, then skies the limit as a force multiplier for Miami on both sides of the ball. It will take a couple years to get there. He's not a Derrick Lively level defensive player today. But he has more offensive upside IMO.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#332 » by Kobewade11 » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:41 pm

I was cool with the draft, indifferent with the Dru Smith thing cause its just a two way, but the Bryant move was the first this offseason I didnt get. Although he did make me a fan because he was the only one to show any nuts last year
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#333 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:42 pm

Read on Twitter


Stop telling Adam we can’t tank next year because we don’t own our pick!!!!
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#334 » by Kobewade11 » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:42 pm

nice breakdown on Ware, Greg. I'm about to get some grub and read it
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#335 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:43 pm

SoFlaKingReal wrote:For the record, the Heat did not give Thomas Bryant a "no trade clause". It is just the result of a quirk in the CBA:

"A player who re-signs with his previous team on a one-year contract – or a two-year deal with an option year – is given no-trade protection, unless he agrees to give up that protection when he inks his deal. That group doesn’t include players on two-way contracts, but it does include players who accept standard (non two-way) one-year qualifying offers."


Sorry for the joke, I know it upset some!!
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#336 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:48 pm

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#337 » by AirP. » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:48 pm

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#338 » by contract » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:49 pm

Daffy wrote:We brought back Thomas Bryant. What are we doing?

I'm sorry ... we what?
.
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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#339 » by eddieheatfan » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:49 pm

MorbidHEAT wrote:
Beenie wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46

Yay!


I’m calling this off season a win. We retained both Kevin Love and Thomas Bryant. Yessir, we are ready to compete…for the 7th and 8th seeds.

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Re: Miami Heat Offseason Thread Vol. 4: Fraudfather Snoozin 2.0 

Post#340 » by lastb1ckman » Wed Jul 3, 2024 6:50 pm

greg4012 wrote:Despite the fun Spo narratives everyone loves to run with, Miami shifted to A LOT more drop coverage rather than pure switching last season. And started 6'11 Jovic next to Bam for the back half of the season.

Bryant signing is weird, but I agree it makes sense to think that Miami is planning to run more big lineups with Love playing along Bam and possibly Ware and Bryant each playing alongside Bam (or Jovic), as well.

I'd imagine Orlando Robinson won't be around next season.

I don't think anyone should reasonably expect for Ware to be ready to contribute core rotation minutes off the bat. His path will likely look more like Jovic's than Jaquez's. Remember that Jovic's development was delayed by back spasms rookie year, so it doesn't have to mean he'll barely get any burn until year 2. But, the reasonable expectation should be for him to be brought along slowly.


Yeah by consequence of having Rozier, Duncan, Herro on the perimeter more traditional defenses are needed. Drop and Zone are gonna be used a lot next season

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