Utah-Minnesota-Atlanta

[babyjax13]

The two things I would say is that these numbers are Towns playing somewhat out of position, and as the #2 option on a contender.

I’d also point out Jokic isn’t going anywhere, and Towns’ defense on Jokic is going to be needed.

Lauri has been playing as the focus of every defense and he's frequently played at small forward which isn't his ideal position. If he is a second option does he get more efficient? etc. etc. (though I do get the point, I'm just saying that the distinction in a vacuum is probably hard to make)

Yeah wolves fans are well aware of this argument -- we've been on that side of it for 15+ years, see: Jefferson, Al; Love, Kevin, [insert former Wolves player here], KAT. I'm not even saying I disagree with that stance, but it's pretty hard to prove other than just feel/hindsight later on.

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We had Big Al, too haha : ) yah hopefully I'm not coming off as disparaging in any way, just making the point that their production seems pretty even so it comes down to what a team values (positionally, in terms of immediate savings vs. already locked in, etc.).

[winforlose]

Lauri has been playing as the focus of every defense and he's frequently played at small forward which isn't his ideal position. If he is a second option does he get more efficient? etc. etc. (though I do get the point, I'm just saying that the distinction in a vacuum is probably hard to make)

Yeah wolves fans are well aware of this argument -- we've been on that side of it for 15+ years, see: Jefferson, Al; Love, Kevin, [insert former Wolves player here], KAT. I'm not even saying I disagree with that stance, but it's pretty hard to prove other than just feel/hindsight later on.

Sent from my SM-S901U using RealGM mobile app

We had Big Al, too haha : ) yah hopefully I'm not coming off as disparaging in any way, just making the point that their production seems pretty even so it comes down to what a team values (positionally, in terms of immediate savings vs. already locked in, etc.).

I understand your position and I want to be candid while still being respectful. Karl has been better for longer, is significantly better at defense, has the same or better positional versatility as LM having played successfully alongside Naz and Rudy for stretch’s of games as well as essentially playing positionless basketball with Naz, Kyle, Jaden, and others all for profit. Karl is a better rebounder, better off the dribble, more consistent from deep, a better passer than LM (Karl is the Rudy whisperer with more assists to him than anyone including Conley,) and while both have injury histories, Karl has shown an ability to play through being severely banged up. Any talk of this trade happening cannot assume they are equals or LM is any way superior to Karl. Karl is a 4 time all star and 2 time all NBA center who just helped take his team to the WCF as a PF.

Once you understand that the daylight is real you now need to ask is saving tax money worth risking the franchise’s future? If the owner says yes then TC will probably leave and the team will lose Ant in a couple years. You don’t make a move a like this just to save money. You make a move a like this because other pieces are attached that make the risk palatable and the team better in some way. That is where the add ins like Kessler and picks come in.

[babyjax13]

Yeah wolves fans are well aware of this argument -- we've been on that side of it for 15+ years, see: Jefferson, Al; Love, Kevin, [insert former Wolves player here], KAT. I'm not even saying I disagree with that stance, but it's pretty hard to prove other than just feel/hindsight later on.

Sent from my SM-S901U using RealGM mobile app

We had Big Al, too haha : ) yah hopefully I'm not coming off as disparaging in any way, just making the point that their production seems pretty even so it comes down to what a team values (positionally, in terms of immediate savings vs. already locked in, etc.).

I understand your position and I want to be candid while still being respectful. Karl has been better for longer, is significantly better at defense, has the same or better positional versatility as LM having played successfully alongside Naz and Rudy for stretch’s of games as well as essentially playing positionless basketball with Naz, Kyle, Jaden, and others all for profit. Karl is a better rebounder, better off the dribble, more consistent from deep, a better passer than LM (Karl is the Rudy whisperer with more assists to him than anyone including Conley,) and while both have injury histories, Karl has shown an ability to play through being severely banged up. Any talk of this trade happening cannot assume they are equals or LM is any way superior to Karl. Karl is a 4 time all star and 2 time all NBA center who just helped take his team to the WCF as a PF.

Once you understand that the daylight is real you now need to ask is saving tax money worth risking the franchise’s future? If the owner says yes then TC will probably leave and the team will lose Ant in a couple years. You don’t make a move a like this just to save money. You make a move a like this because other pieces are attached that make the risk palatable and the team better in some way. That is where the add ins like Kessler and picks come in.

Accolades don't really count for much to me because they aren't measurable impact, just recognition of impact (they count some for certain uses).

Lauri has a pretty significant edge re: offensive impact which is why +/- metrics don't differentiate the two. There also doesn't appear to be a significant difference w/rebounding. Every argument you could use to excuse why KAT's rebounding rate has gone down is one you can use for Lauri why Lauri isn't grabbing more than 9 per game (because we do have some excellent rebounders next to him and he plays a significant amount of time out of position, etc.).

Better for longer? Yes, absolutely I'll concede that in the past KAT has had better seasons and he has been a very good player for longer.

Better now? It's not clear. I think an argument that KAT is clearly better has to rely on seasons that are - at this point - pretty far in the past (from 17-18 through 20-21 KAT put together 3 seasons where his per-game impact was *clearly* better than Lauri's and I think 21-22 also grades out better). I also don't think that Lauri has quite hit his peak, so there is some marginal upside there, too.

Utah has also been pretty blatant about testing Lauri to tank at the end of the season, so take that for what you will, but I don't think you can say that KAT has demonstrated that he can play 'banged up' any more than Lauri has when they play almost the same # of games per season.

[winforlose]

We had Big Al, too haha : ) yah hopefully I'm not coming off as disparaging in any way, just making the point that their production seems pretty even so it comes down to what a team values (positionally, in terms of immediate savings vs. already locked in, etc.).

I understand your position and I want to be candid while still being respectful. Karl has been better for longer, is significantly better at defense, has the same or better positional versatility as LM having played successfully alongside Naz and Rudy for stretch’s of games as well as essentially playing positionless basketball with Naz, Kyle, Jaden, and others all for profit. Karl is a better rebounder, better off the dribble, more consistent from deep, a better passer than LM (Karl is the Rudy whisperer with more assists to him than anyone including Conley,) and while both have injury histories, Karl has shown an ability to play through being severely banged up. Any talk of this trade happening cannot assume they are equals or LM is any way superior to Karl. Karl is a 4 time all star and 2 time all NBA center who just helped take his team to the WCF as a PF.

Once you understand that the daylight is real you now need to ask is saving tax money worth risking the franchise’s future? If the owner says yes then TC will probably leave and the team will lose Ant in a couple years. You don’t make a move a like this just to save money. You make a move a like this because other pieces are attached that make the risk palatable and the team better in some way. That is where the add ins like Kessler and picks come in.

Accolades don't really count for much to me because they aren't measurable impact, just recognition of impact (they count some for certain uses).

Lauri has a pretty significant edge re: offensive impact which is why +/- metrics don't differentiate the two. There also doesn't appear to be a significant difference w/rebounding. Every argument you could use to excuse why KAT's rebounding rate has gone down is one you can use for Lauri why Lauri isn't grabbing more than 9 per game (because we do have some excellent rebounders next to him and he plays a significant amount of time out of position, etc.).

Better for longer? Yes, absolutely I'll concede that in the past KAT has had better seasons and he has been a very good player for longer.

Better now? It's not clear. I think an argument that KAT is clearly better has to rely on seasons that are - at this point - pretty far in the past (from 17-18 through 20-21 KAT put together 3 seasons where his per-game impact was *clearly* better than Lauri's and I think 21-22 also grades out better). I also don't think that Lauri has quite hit his peak, so there is some marginal upside there, too.

Utah has also been pretty blatant about testing Lauri to tank at the end of the season, so take that for what you will, but I don't think you can say that KAT has demonstrated that he can play 'banged up' any more than Lauri has when they play almost the same # of games per season.

I was referring to the 21/22 season when KAT had injuries to both his wrists, a knee, and something else (maybe an ankle,) and was still putting up decent numbers.) KAT drives a lot and takes a ton of contact, so he is naturally beat up more. It is widely believed he played most of this past January and February with the meniscus tear causing him substantial pain but his numbers by and large were solid despite it. KAT also rushed back and was incredible relative to expectations for someone back from surgery for less than 2 weeks and who played less than a handful of games before the Suns series started. It wasn’t a knock on LM, just a feather in KAT’s hat.

The difference between KAT and LM is that KAT accommodated Ant and Rudy whereas everyone else accommodated LM. Karl also played in more meaningful games with higher stakes.

In any case both guys are good and both guys play the same position. Neither team has to move them and frankly I don’t think we should move Karl unless we get a significant offer that improves us. If you told me that Karl’s talent was 92 and LM’s talent was 92 (random numbers in the style of NBA 2K,) I would say okay, we will keep the guy we know who has continuity with our players, and who the locker room loves, who is fiercely loyal to MN, and just did the best job that anyone could ask defending Joker and getting us to the WCF, and let someone else buy LM away from Utah. Now if you told me Karl is a 98 and LM is a 92 I would say that is even more reason not to exchange them. We have too much to lose if the fit is bad. That is before you tell me that LM could leave after one year and we have no means of recouping the lost value. Do you see why this trade is bad for our side. At best it is lateral and does very little for us other than saving our ownership a big tax bill this year, and worst it destroys our contender status, which costs us Ant and our GM TC.

[babyjax13]

The difference between KAT and LM is that KAT accommodated Ant and Rudy whereas everyone else accommodated LM. Karl also played in more meaningful games with higher stakes.

I don't know what you mean here. Lauri is extremely low usage relative to his production, shouldn't be hard for him to fit in anywhere. We play him at several different positions and put the ball in other player's hands all the time. He is pretty much the ideal second option.

In any case both guys are good and both guys play the same position. Neither team has to move them and frankly I don’t think we should move Karl unless we get a significant offer that improves us. If you told me that Karl’s talent was 92 and LM’s talent was 92 (random numbers in the style of NBA 2K,) I would say okay, we will keep the guy we know who has continuity with our players, and who the locker room loves, who is fiercely loyal to MN, and just did the best job that anyone could ask defending Joker and getting us to the WCF, and let someone else buy LM away from Utah.

Totally fair.

That is before you tell me that LM could leave after one year and we have no means of recouping the lost value. Do you see why this trade is bad for our side.

I've already addressed this. The only reason to take the risk is because you believe the salary savings this year & resetting repeater penalties is important long-term.

At best it is lateral and does very little for us other than saving our ownership a big tax bill this year, and worst it destroys our contender status, which costs us Ant and our GM TC.

That's your interpretation. At best the fit is better and the savings in the first year allow Minnesota to keep the team together longer. Worst case scenario? Sure. But if they are worried about the worst case scenario I'm not sure why there are rumors they are interested in Lauri, which is the only reason why I posted my trade and the only reason this one has been posted. Perhaps they aren't really interested, I have no way to know that, and the pairing with Gobert does appear to work.

[winforlose]

The difference between KAT and LM is that KAT accommodated Ant and Rudy whereas everyone else accommodated LM. Karl also played in more meaningful games with higher stakes.

I don't know what you mean here. Lauri is extremely low usage relative to his production, shouldn't be hard for him to fit in anywhere. We play him at several different positions and put the ball in other player's hands all the time. He is pretty much the ideal second option.

In any case both guys are good and both guys play the same position. Neither team has to move them and frankly I don’t think we should move Karl unless we get a significant offer that improves us. If you told me that Karl’s talent was 92 and LM’s talent was 92 (random numbers in the style of NBA 2K,) I would say okay, we will keep the guy we know who has continuity with our players, and who the locker room loves, who is fiercely loyal to MN, and just did the best job that anyone could ask defending Joker and getting us to the WCF, and let someone else buy LM away from Utah.

Totally fair.

That is before you tell me that LM could leave after one year and we have no means of recouping the lost value. Do you see why this trade is bad for our side.

I've already addressed this. The only reason to take the risk is because you believe the salary savings this year & resetting repeater penalties is important long-term.

At best it is lateral and does very little for us other than saving our ownership a big tax bill this year, and worst it destroys our contender status, which costs us Ant and our GM TC.

That's your interpretation. At best the fit is better and the savings in the first year allow Minnesota to keep the team together longer. Worst case scenario? Sure. But if they are worried about the worst case scenario I'm not sure why there are rumors they are interested in Lauri, which is the only reason why I posted my trade and the only reason this one has been posted. Perhaps they aren't really interested, I have no way to know that, and the pairing with Gobert does appear to work.

Maybe I said it in the Wolves thread, but we remain in the tax either way. Saving 31 we end up 3 mil over the tax with no nonessential contracts to move to get under. That is before adding two more minimum contracts to the roster. As for the restating of the risk above, that is just me completing the picture, sorry for being redundant.

My point about Karl accommodating others is that he rarely is the focus of the offense. He looks to pass and create for others and depends on his high efficiency to keep his averages up. Karl loves hitting Rudy inside, doing give and go passes to cutting Wolves, ect… Karl is someone who has proven he can handle higher volume but is actively trying to be the beta. Lauri isn’t in the same position, and hasn’t had to accommodate an Ant Edwards while also getting his own. That could mess with his game some and mess with the locker room if Lauri doesn’t want to be that complimentary star instead of the THE guy. It is just another variable that scares Wolves fans.

[winforlose]

The following suggestion is not endorsed by me. I heard it on the flagrant howls pod, and while I personally would not do it, it was intriguing enough for me to want it discussed. Would Utah trade Markkanen for McDaniels? Personally I have McDaniels as more valuable than Markkanen due to his contract being 5 years in the low to mid 20s and Markkanen going to the mid 40s next year. But I could see the argument the other way as well.

[babyjax13]

The following suggestion is not endorsed by me. I heard it on the flagrant howls pod, and while I personally would not do it, it was intriguing enough for me to want it discussed. Would Utah trade Markkanen for McDaniels? Personally I have McDaniels as more valuable than Markkanen due to his contract being 5 years in the low to mid 20s and Markkanen going to the mid 40s next year. But I could see the argument the other way as well.

Not a chance we'd do that.

[winforlose]

The following suggestion is not endorsed by me. I heard it on the flagrant howls pod, and while I personally would not do it, it was intriguing enough for me to want it discussed. Would Utah trade Markkanen for McDaniels? Personally I have McDaniels as more valuable than Markkanen due to his contract being 5 years in the low to mid 20s and Markkanen going to the mid 40s next year. But I could see the argument the other way as well.

Not a chance we'd do that.

Really? I get why we wouldn’t. I am surprised you wouldn’t.

[babyjax13]

The following suggestion is not endorsed by me. I heard it on the flagrant howls pod, and while I personally would not do it, it was intriguing enough for me to want it discussed. Would Utah trade Markkanen for McDaniels? Personally I have McDaniels as more valuable than Markkanen due to his contract being 5 years in the low to mid 20s and Markkanen going to the mid 40s next year. But I could see the argument the other way as well.

Not a chance we'd do that.

Really? I get why we wouldn’t. I am surprised you wouldn’t.

060
You have a very different opinion of the 4th best player on your team than I do, then. Nice player, Lauri is waaaaaayyyyyy better.

[winforlose]

Not a chance we'd do that.

Really? I get why we wouldn’t. I am surprised you wouldn’t.

060
You have a very different opinion of the 4th best player on your team than I do, then. Nice player, Lauri is waaaaaayyyyyy better.

Did you watch Jaden in the playoffs? His defense alone is enough to make teams salivate over him, (legit 7 foot and can guard 1-4 with some 5s like Chet being helpless against him.) Add to this that he is capable of dropping 20 on any given night when he isn’t even getting plays run for him. Imagine if he was an actual priority. His rebounding is weak but improving, especially corner crashing, and he is only 23. Add to all this that his money is gonna look like a ****** steal when the cap rises and bad players are making closer to 12-16 and Jaden is sitting in the low to mid 20s looking like a stud. 5 years of great value from an All NBA 2nd team defense who can drop 20 on any given night against teams like Phoenix, Denver, and Dallas. Yeah LM is not way better, much less way more valuable at 27, expiring, and demanding a max for approximately double the salary of Jaden.

[babyjax13]

Really? I get why we wouldn’t. I am surprised you wouldn’t.

060
You have a very different opinion of the 4th best player on your team than I do, then. Nice player, Lauri is waaaaaayyyyyy better.

Did you watch Jaden in the playoffs? His defense alone is enough to make teams salivate over him, (legit 7 foot and can guard 1-4 with some 5s like Chet being helpless against him.) Add to this that he is capable of dropping 20 on any given night when he isn’t even getting plays run for him. Imagine if he was an actual priority. His rebounding is weak but improving, especially corner crashing, and he is only 23. Add to all this that his money is gonna look like a ****** steal when the cap rises and bad players are making closer to 12-16 and Jaden is sitting in the low to mid 20s looking like a stud. 5 years of great value from an All NBA 2nd team defense who can drop 20 on any given night against teams like Phoenix, Denver, and Dallas. Yeah LM is not way better, much less way more valuable at 27, expiring, and demanding a max for approximately double the salary of Jaden.

I'll take Lauri at the max over Jaden, no question. Doesn't matter if Jaden's contract is a steal, or that he is a great defender. Lauri is just a better player who is worth a max contract and Jaden isn't worth one, and I doubt he ever will be.

[Klomp]

Really? I get why we wouldn’t. I am surprised you wouldn’t.

060
You have a very different opinion of the 4th best player on your team than I do, then. Nice player, Lauri is waaaaaayyyyyy better.

Did you watch Jaden in the playoffs? His defense alone is enough to make teams salivate over him, (legit 7 foot and can guard 1-4 with some 5s like Chet being helpless against him.) Add to this that he is capable of dropping 20 on any given night when he isn’t even getting plays run for him. Imagine if he was an actual priority. His rebounding is weak but improving, especially corner crashing, and he is only 23. Add to all this that his money is gonna look like a ****** steal when the cap rises and bad players are making closer to 12-16 and Jaden is sitting in the low to mid 20s looking like a stud. 5 years of great value from an All NBA 2nd team defense who can drop 20 on any given night against teams like Phoenix, Denver, and Dallas. Yeah LM is not way better, much less way more valuable at 27, expiring, and demanding a max for approximately double the salary of Jaden.

Utah doesn't need a third or fourth option though. They need a first option; a franchise player. As excited as Wolves fans may be about Jaden's potential, I don't think anyone will argue he's got franchise player upside for a good team.

[Klomp]

Accolades don't really count for much to me because they aren't measurable impact, just recognition of impact (they count some for certain uses).

Lauri has a pretty significant edge re: offensive impact which is why +/- metrics don't differentiate the two. There also doesn't appear to be a significant difference w/rebounding. Every argument you could use to excuse why KAT's rebounding rate has gone down is one you can use for Lauri why Lauri isn't grabbing more than 9 per game (because we do have some excellent rebounders next to him and he plays a significant amount of time out of position, etc.).

Better for longer? Yes, absolutely I'll concede that in the past KAT has had better seasons and he has been a very good player for longer.

Better now? It's not clear. I think an argument that KAT is clearly better has to rely on seasons that are - at this point - pretty far in the past (from 17-18 through 20-21 KAT put together 3 seasons where his per-game impact was *clearly* better than Lauri's and I think 21-22 also grades out better). I also don't think that Lauri has quite hit his peak, so there is some marginal upside there, too.

Utah has also been pretty blatant about testing Lauri to tank at the end of the season, so take that for what you will, but I don't think you can say that KAT has demonstrated that he can play 'banged up' any more than Lauri has when they play almost the same # of games per season.

I don't know why, but people don't seem to respect Lauri's game. It's not a blatant "he sucks" like Minnesota fans are used to hearing about Towns and Utah fans used to hear about Gobert, but more of a "he doesn't exist" disrespect.

I know I'm making assumptions here, but I think the hesitance for Timberwolves fans around Markkanen (away from the contract) is partially because I don't think people fully understand what he has become as a player.

When people (even Wolves fans) talk about Towns, they say he needs to foul less, turn the ball over less, get in the corners more, increase 3-point volume. These are all areas where Lauri has the potential to be an upgrade. Not if he improves; if he holds steady with what he's done in his career.

Fouls: Towns career-low is 2.9 fouls per36 in 2016-17; Markkanen career-high is 2.6 in 2017-18.
Turnovers: Towns is over 3 turnovers per36 in 6 straight years; Markkanen career-high is 2.0.
Corner 3s: Towns has attempted 11.5% of career 3-pointers from the corner at 40.4%; Markkanen 16.4% of 3FGAs from corner at 42.7%
3-point volume: Towns averages 4.5 3PA per 36 in career, only one year over 7 3PA per 36; Markkanen averages 7.7 3PA per 36 in career and over 7 3PA per 36 in every year

[winforlose]

060
You have a very different opinion of the 4th best player on your team than I do, then. Nice player, Lauri is waaaaaayyyyyy better.

Did you watch Jaden in the playoffs? His defense alone is enough to make teams salivate over him, (legit 7 foot and can guard 1-4 with some 5s like Chet being helpless against him.) Add to this that he is capable of dropping 20 on any given night when he isn’t even getting plays run for him. Imagine if he was an actual priority. His rebounding is weak but improving, especially corner crashing, and he is only 23. Add to all this that his money is gonna look like a ****** steal when the cap rises and bad players are making closer to 12-16 and Jaden is sitting in the low to mid 20s looking like a stud. 5 years of great value from an All NBA 2nd team defense who can drop 20 on any given night against teams like Phoenix, Denver, and Dallas. Yeah LM is not way better, much less way more valuable at 27, expiring, and demanding a max for approximately double the salary of Jaden.

I'll take Lauri at the max over Jaden, no question. Doesn't matter if Jaden's contract is a steal, or that he is a great defender. Lauri is just a better player who is worth a max contract and Jaden isn't worth one, and I doubt he ever will be.

Fair enough. I don’t really get it, but that is okay.

[schaffy]

Really? I get why we wouldn’t. I am surprised you wouldn’t.

060
You have a very different opinion of the 4th best player on your team than I do, then. Nice player, Lauri is waaaaaayyyyyy better.

Did you watch Jaden in the playoffs? His defense alone is enough to make teams salivate over him, (legit 7 foot and can guard 1-4 with some 5s like Chet being helpless against him.) Add to this that he is capable of dropping 20 on any given night when he isn’t even getting plays run for him. Imagine if he was an actual priority. His rebounding is weak but improving, especially corner crashing, and he is only 23. Add to all this that his money is gonna look like a ****** steal when the cap rises and bad players are making closer to 12-16 and Jaden is sitting in the low to mid 20s looking like a stud. 5 years of great value from an All NBA 2nd team defense who can drop 20 on any given night against teams like Phoenix, Denver, and Dallas. Yeah LM is not way better, much less way more valuable at 27, expiring, and demanding a max for approximately double the salary of Jaden.

Look I love McDaniels but this is some heavy spin. The defense is usually great, but he'll pick up 1 to 2 dumb ones a game he just doesn't need to. And sure he can drop 20. Just as frequently he scores 4. The consistency needs to improve from him. And some of that may be youth. Or it might just be who he is as a player, young guys dont outgrow every flaw they have. Sometimes its just who they are. Utah isn't going to want to move LM for a guy who profiles at best as a 3rd option on offense. That's OK. It doesn't mean they don't value Jaden.

Sent from my SM-S901U using RealGM mobile app

[winforlose]

060
You have a very different opinion of the 4th best player on your team than I do, then. Nice player, Lauri is waaaaaayyyyyy better.

Did you watch Jaden in the playoffs? His defense alone is enough to make teams salivate over him, (legit 7 foot and can guard 1-4 with some 5s like Chet being helpless against him.) Add to this that he is capable of dropping 20 on any given night when he isn’t even getting plays run for him. Imagine if he was an actual priority. His rebounding is weak but improving, especially corner crashing, and he is only 23. Add to all this that his money is gonna look like a ****** steal when the cap rises and bad players are making closer to 12-16 and Jaden is sitting in the low to mid 20s looking like a stud. 5 years of great value from an All NBA 2nd team defense who can drop 20 on any given night against teams like Phoenix, Denver, and Dallas. Yeah LM is not way better, much less way more valuable at 27, expiring, and demanding a max for approximately double the salary of Jaden.

Look I love McDaniels but this is some heavy spin. The defense is usually great, but he'll pick up 1 to 2 dumb ones a game he just doesn't need to. And sure he can drop 20. Just as frequently he scores 4. The consistency needs to improve from him. And some of that may be youth. Or it might just be who he is as a player, young guys dont outgrow every flaw they have. Sometimes its just who they are. Utah isn't going to want to move LM for a guy who profiles at best as a 3rd option on offense. That's OK. It doesn't mean they don't value Jaden.

Sent from my SM-S901U using RealGM mobile app

I just started a poll out of sheer curiosity. I get the argument that prime Markkanen is worth a max and is a difference maker. I just don’t think people appreciate how impactful Jaden McDaniels is to playoff basketball. What he did to Devin Booker and Bradley Beal is the stuff of legend. Jaden at the half the cost and 4 years from his prime is already a force in the league. Maybe he never gets better, but with 5 years of control and a chance to build around him, I think a tanking Utah would love to get their hands on him.

[SkyHook]

Did you watch Jaden in the playoffs? His defense alone is enough to make teams salivate over him, (legit 7 foot and can guard 1-4 with some 5s like Chet being helpless against him.) Add to this that he is capable of dropping 20 on any given night when he isn’t even getting plays run for him. Imagine if he was an actual priority. His rebounding is weak but improving, especially corner crashing, and he is only 23. Add to all this that his money is gonna look like a ****** steal when the cap rises and bad players are making closer to 12-16 and Jaden is sitting in the low to mid 20s looking like a stud. 5 years of great value from an All NBA 2nd team defense who can drop 20 on any given night against teams like Phoenix, Denver, and Dallas. Yeah LM is not way better, much less way more valuable at 27, expiring, and demanding a max for approximately double the salary of Jaden.

Look I love McDaniels but this is some heavy spin. The defense is usually great, but he'll pick up 1 to 2 dumb ones a game he just doesn't need to. And sure he can drop 20. Just as frequently he scores 4. The consistency needs to improve from him. And some of that may be youth. Or it might just be who he is as a player, young guys dont outgrow every flaw they have. Sometimes its just who they are. Utah isn't going to want to move LM for a guy who profiles at best as a 3rd option on offense. That's OK. It doesn't mean they don't value Jaden.

Sent from my SM-S901U using RealGM mobile app

I just started a poll out of sheer curiosity. I get the argument that prime Markkanen is worth a max and is a difference maker. I just don’t think people appreciate how impactful Jaden McDaniels is to playoff basketball. What he did to Devin Booker and Bradley Beal is the stuff of legend. Jaden at the half the cost and 4 years from his prime is already a force in the league. Maybe he never gets better, but with 5 years of control and a chance to build around him, I think a tanking Utah would love to get their hands on him.

As a secondary part of package for Markannen? Absolutely. As the primary (or only) value coming back? Absolutely not.

[Klomp]

I just started a poll out of sheer curiosity.

And you are getting a resounding response, I'd say

[winforlose]

I just started a poll out of sheer curiosity.

And you are getting a resounding response, I'd say

Way more consensus than I expected. I really wonder how this question will age.