Trades and Transactions thread cont - post Mikal trade

[NoDopeOnSundays]

It's starting to seem like they really thought they were a lock to resign Ihart and had no contingency. Apparently some teams are interested in Precious as well.

[Jeffrey]

Read on Twitter

Did he sign a vet minimum? The Mikal trade is holding up future ring chasers on this team?

[Richard4444]

I have no idea why you guys are making such heavy weather of this. It's incredibly simple :

"(1) “Apron Team Salary” means, for a Team for a Salary Cap Year, the Team’s Team Salary:
(i) plus all Performance Bonuses excluded from a player’s Salary under Section 3(d) below;
(ii) plus the Salary attributable to a Contract signed by a Free Agent with zero (0) Years of Service or one (1) Year of Service provided for in Section 2(d)(1)(i)(F) above;
(iii) plus any amount that could be added to the Team’s Team Salary for such Salary Cap Year pursuant to Section 4(a)(1)(iii) below;
(iv) minus any Free Agent Amounts as described in Section 4(a)(2) below;
(v) plus, with respect to any Restricted Free Agent, the greater of (A) the Salary plus Unlikely Bonuses called for in any Article VII outstanding Qualifying Offer (or any outstanding Maximum Qualifying Offer, if applicable) tendered to the player, or (B) the Salary plus Unlikely Bonuses called for in any First Refusal Exercise Notice (as defined in Article XI, Section 5(g)) issued with respect to such player;
(vi) minus any amounts with respect to unsigned First Round Picks described in Section 4(a)(4) below;
(vii) plus the amount of any outstanding Required Tender to a First Round Pick;
(viii) minus the amount of any Salary Cap Exception that is deemed included in Team Salary pursuant to Sections 4(a)(7) and 6(n)(2) below;
(ix) plus any amount excluded from its Team Salary pursuant to Section 4(l) below; and
(x) minus the amount of any incomplete roster cap hold amount added to the Team’s Salary pursuant to Section 4(f) below."

<cut Section 4 subsections>

LMAO!

Well played

Interesting points from (1) are that to calculate the Apron Team Salary you start with the usual Team Salary (which we know and love for calculating whether a teams is under the salary cap or not) and then add and subtract things. They could have set this out (in my opinion) more clearly by just giving a separate list derived from these additions and subtractions, but .. whatever.

Anyway, aside from needing to add the unlikely incentives, amongst the subtractions are any amount to an unsigned FRP and any incomplete roster charge. (Let's get to the free agents and those under options later).

Whilst in the fullness of time the Knicks either will or will not have a contract with Dadiet, they don't as of this moment, afaik.

So JCohen's table seems not to be a complete reflection of the Knicks Apron Team Salary as of right now (or as of July 1st when he wrote it). That's about $6m more space.

Am I missing something here? (Richard4444? WargamesX?)

(Let's think about free agents etc in another post.)

I saw these rules a couple of months ago. And I gave up. I chose to believe what the experts were saying.

I don't think Jeremy is wrong. What would be his mistake?

[R-DAWG]

Fury & Buzz, he's trolling...I dont even believe he's a knick fan and I'm being dead series...Brunson was a top 5 MVP candidate.
Maxey is just getting started

I'm trolling because I don't think there is a material difference between Brunson and Maxey.

The stats are nearly identical. Brunson's team had a better season, but Brunson had a better roster, which lead to the top 5 MVP voting. As players, they are pretty much in the same category. You would probably take Brunson to win a game today but Maxey to build a team around.

But hey, I'm not a Knick fan if I don't say anything other than the Knicks have the best team and the their players are the best.

I think the Knicks have built a great regular season team that will win close to 60 games and has a shot at the number 1 seed. I also don't think the roster has the high end talent to win at the highest levels against other great teams in the conference finals.

I watched playoff games where teams blitzed Brunson and took the ball out of his hands. There was no one else who could create offense

I watched Julius Randle struggle against playoff teams.

I’ve watched mikal bridges be a finisher not a creator.

I don’t think the knicks have enough ball handling and shot creation to win a title. Just like Boston didn’t when their backcourt was Marcus smart and Jaylen brown.

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

Did he sign a vet minimum? The Mikal trade is holding up future ring chasers on this team?

Burks was never coming back to be a 3rd stringer. But it does take away another S&T candidate.

So only ways to avoid the first apron are a Precious S&T or Duece most likely has to go in a bigger deal.

[Context]

I'm trolling because I don't think there is a material difference between Brunson and Maxey.

The stats are nearly identical. Brunson's team had a better season, but Brunson had a better roster, which lead to the top 5 MVP voting. As players, they are pretty much in the same category. You would probably take Brunson to win a game today but Maxey to build a team around.

But hey, I'm not a Knick fan if I don't say anything other than the Knicks have the best team and the their players are the best.

I think the Knicks have built a great regular season team that will win close to 60 games and has a shot at the number 1 seed. I also don't think the roster has the high end talent to win at the highest levels against other great teams in the conference finals.

I watched playoff games where teams blitzed Brunson and took the ball out of his hands. There was no one else who could create offense

I watched Julius Randle struggle against playoff teams.

I’ve watched mikal bridges be a finisher not a creator.

I don’t think the knicks have enough ball handling and shot creation to win a title. Just like Boston didn’t when their backcourt was Marcus smart and Jaylen brown.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Read on Twitter

Did he sign a vet minimum? The Mikal trade is holding up future ring chasers on this team?

Oh boy. The margins are getting thinner. I really hope they have their plan locked in and just need to work out the apron nonsense/compensation with all parties involved before announcing anything.

This is beginning to look like they got left at the alter and they got caught off guard. Mitch/Sims/Huk Finn is not a good look going into the season.

[WargamesX]

I don't believe that is accurate if they complete the Mikal trade as currently constructed. Once you make a trade were you take on more money then you send back you are then "hard caped" at that apron. Hard cap meaning you can't go over.

Except by signing 2nd rounder and vet min players who were paid less than the MLE. Those exceptions is why 2nd rounders have more value. The league had to add this exception to their “hard cap” because eventually a team would have a top heavy team with less than 14 players at the hard cap. It would eventually lead to a fiasco.

It’s why Jeremy Cohen’s posts of the cap situation are unfortunately inacurate. It’s not illustrating the 2nd rounder exception. The Knicks can work through all their hard cap space and then sign their 2nd round players.

tl;dr I think WargamesX is correct here/in that string of posts

Thank You! Those contract classes helped but I wouldn’t read the CBA unless I was being paid.

So with that said we don’t actually have to go into the 2nd apron, but it still makes sense if they do. Even with Burks off the board they can basically do everything using McBride, the Obi TPE, Precious bird rights, and the TPMLE to sign someone to back up Brunson. They can open up the cap space to have some room to maneuver or not and just go over the 1st apron to sign their second rounders

Brunson/??? (Using TPMLE)/Kolek
Bridges/DDV
OG/Hart/Pacome
Randle/Precious (using bird rights)
Mitch/Sims/Kessler or Richards or another yet to be named center (from McBride trade)

If they stay at the 1st apron it would be a choice between using Precious bird rights to keep him or the TPMLE to sign him or someone else.

[mpharris36]

It's starting to seem like they really thought they were a lock to resign Ihart and had no contingency. Apparently some teams are interested in Precious as well.

I don't see how that is possible with the CAA connection and the Begley reporting which seems to have been spot on this summer...there were reports from Begley and Woj before the draft/after the Mikal trade we weren't liking our chances of bringing back ihart and expected him to get a big offer elsewhere.

Also since they had the 4/72 on the table they had to have some avenue to get out of the 1st apron...that still isn't yet clear after all this.

[mpharris36]

Except by signing 2nd rounder and vet min players who were paid less than the MLE. Those exceptions is why 2nd rounders have more value. The league had to add this exception to their “hard cap” because eventually a team would have a top heavy team with less than 14 players at the hard cap. It would eventually lead to a fiasco.

It’s why Jeremy Cohen’s posts of the cap situation are unfortunately inacurate. It’s not illustrating the 2nd rounder exception. The Knicks can work through all their hard cap space and then sign their 2nd round players.

tl;dr I think WargamesX is correct here/in that string of posts

Thank You! Those contract classes helped but I wouldn’t read the CBA unless I was being paid.

So with that said we don’t actually have to go into the 2nd apron, but it still makes sense if they do. Even with Burks off the board they can basically do everything using McBride, the Obi TPE, Precious bird rights, and the TPMLE to sign someone to back up Brunson. They can open up the cap space to have some room to maneuver or not and just go over the 1st apron to sign their second rounders

Brunson/??? (Using TPMLE)/Kolek
Bridges/DDV
OG/Hart/Pacome
Randle/Precious (using bird rights)
Mitch/Sims/Kessler or Richards or another yet to be named center (from McBride trade)

If they stay at the 1st apron it would be a choice between using Precious bird rights to keep him or the TPMLE to sign him or someone else.

you putting Sims above Kessler or Richards is bothering me in your lineup....

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

LMAO!

Well played

Interesting points from (1) are that to calculate the Apron Team Salary you start with the usual Team Salary (which we know and love for calculating whether a teams is under the salary cap or not) and then add and subtract things. They could have set this out (in my opinion) more clearly by just giving a separate list derived from these additions and subtractions, but .. whatever.

Anyway, aside from needing to add the unlikely incentives, amongst the subtractions are any amount to an unsigned FRP and any incomplete roster charge. (Let's get to the free agents and those under options later).

Whilst in the fullness of time the Knicks either will or will not have a contract with Dadiet, they don't as of this moment, afaik.

So JCohen's table seems not to be a complete reflection of the Knicks Apron Team Salary as of right now (or as of July 1st when he wrote it). That's about $6m more space.

Am I missing something here? (Richard4444? WargamesX?)

(Let's think about free agents etc in another post.)

I saw these rules a couple of months ago. And I gave up. I chose to believe what the experts were saying.

I don't think Jeremy is wrong. What would be his mistake?

I'm not sure I'd call it a mistake, but it's a snap-shot of where he thinks the Knicks will roughly end up or somewhere close to that.

Diakite is missing and the new picks are all listed - when I'm pretty sure that Diakite hasn't been renounced and the picks haven't been offered contracts yet.

[WargamesX]

tl;dr I think WargamesX is correct here/in that string of posts

Thank You! Those contract classes helped but I wouldn’t read the CBA unless I was being paid.

So with that said we don’t actually have to go into the 2nd apron, but it still makes sense if they do. Even with Burks off the board they can basically do everything using McBride, the Obi TPE, Precious bird rights, and the TPMLE to sign someone to back up Brunson. They can open up the cap space to have some room to maneuver or not and just go over the 1st apron to sign their second rounders

Brunson/??? (Using TPMLE)/Kolek
Bridges/DDV
OG/Hart/Pacome
Randle/Precious (using bird rights)
Mitch/Sims/Kessler or Richards or another yet to be named center (from McBride trade)

If they stay at the 1st apron it would be a choice between using Precious bird rights to keep him or the TPMLE to sign him or someone else.

you putting Sims above Kessler or Richards is bothering me in your lineup....

I just think whoever comes here has to beat him for that job

[BrOnXKing1]

Do we still have a 5million TPE if we are hard capped at the first apron?

[mpharris36]

Thank You! Those contract classes helped but I wouldn’t read the CBA unless I was being paid.

So with that said we don’t actually have to go into the 2nd apron, but it still makes sense if they do. Even with Burks off the board they can basically do everything using McBride, the Obi TPE, Precious bird rights, and the TPMLE to sign someone to back up Brunson. They can open up the cap space to have some room to maneuver or not and just go over the 1st apron to sign their second rounders

Brunson/??? (Using TPMLE)/Kolek
Bridges/DDV
OG/Hart/Pacome
Randle/Precious (using bird rights)
Mitch/Sims/Kessler or Richards or another yet to be named center (from McBride trade)

If they stay at the 1st apron it would be a choice between using Precious bird rights to keep him or the TPMLE to sign him or someone else.

you putting Sims above Kessler or Richards is bothering me in your lineup....

I just think whoever comes here has to beat him for that job

[sol537]

It's starting to seem like they really thought they were a lock to resign Ihart and had no contingency. Apparently some teams are interested in Precious as well.

I don't see how that is possible with the CAA connection and the Begley reporting which seems to have been spot on this summer...there were reports from Begley and Woj before the draft/after the Mikal trade we weren't liking our chances of bringing back ihart and expected him to get a big offer elsewhere.

Also since they had the 4/72 on the table they had to have some avenue to get out of the 1st apron...that still isn't yet clear after all this.

Exactly this. They were probably 95% sure he was going to take a bigger offer in OKC or ORL and he did. So NYK has been planning for this scenario for weeks if not months. Just because something hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't.

This is not our final 2025 playoff roster. There will be some tweaks/upgrades... you can bet on it.

Remember how we upgraded with Hart and OG at the trade deadline in past years. That seems to be our MO...

With no other changes and just Precious returning (or someone similar), this is a 55+ win team and a 2nd or 3rd seed floor type team. If things click as I expect them to, we could be looking at close to 60 wins.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I watched playoff games where teams blitzed Brunson and took the ball out of his hands. There was no one else who could create offense

I watched Julius Randle struggle against playoff teams.

I’ve watched mikal bridges be a finisher not a creator.

I don’t think the knicks have enough ball handling and shot creation to win a title. Just like Boston didn’t when their backcourt was Marcus smart and Jaylen brown.

Brunson won't be getting doubled with Mikal/OG/Julius out there.
Julius can create for others off of his gravity and now has a plethora of options to pass to.
Mikal can create for himself if he has to. He has a pull up in his bag and can handle the ball just fine.
Ignore defense much?
Marcus Smart sucked at everything except defense.

Some people are just programmed to see nothing positive even if it's right in front of their face. The Knicks lost half their team and fought their way to the 2 seed and game 7 of the second round with half a team. There's a great team here and Mikal only makes it better.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Read on Twitter

Why does that take him off the board? Doesn't that make him more likely? Send Riles a pick as well?

[mpharris36]

It's starting to seem like they really thought they were a lock to resign Ihart and had no contingency. Apparently some teams are interested in Precious as well.

I don't see how that is possible with the CAA connection and the Begley reporting which seems to have been spot on this summer...there were reports from Begley and Woj before the draft/after the Mikal trade we weren't liking our chances of bringing back ihart and expected him to get a big offer elsewhere.

Also since they had the 4/72 on the table they had to have some avenue to get out of the 1st apron...that still isn't yet clear after all this.

Exactly this. They were probably 95% sure he was going to take a bigger offer in OKC or ORL and he did. So NYK has been planning for this scenario for weeks if not months. Just because something hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't.

This is not our final 2025 playoff roster. There will be some tweaks/upgrades... you can bet on it.

Remember how we upgraded with Hart and OG at the trade deadline in past years. That seems to be our MO...

With no other changes and just Precious returning (or someone similar), this is a 55+ win team and a 2nd or 3rd seed floor type team. If things click as I expect them to, we could be looking at close to 60 wins.

the problem remains the 1st apron hard cap...we can bring back precious but if we make the mikal trade as currently constituted making any trades or acquisitions at the deadline hard caped right against the 1st apron would be very difficult to nearly impossible.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

It's starting to seem like they really thought they were a lock to resign Ihart and had no contingency. Apparently some teams are interested in Precious as well.

I don't see how that is possible with the CAA connection and the Begley reporting which seems to have been spot on this summer...there were reports from Begley and Woj before the draft/after the Mikal trade we weren't liking our chances of bringing back ihart and expected him to get a big offer elsewhere.

Also since they had the 4/72 on the table they had to have some avenue to get out of the 1st apron...that still isn't yet clear after all this.

If they knew this were going to happen they would have lined up a trade in that event, as it stands it sounds like they were trying to expand the Bridges trade to include other players so that they could have more money in FA yet there's no centers left in FA. Just seems like they really thought Ihart would turn down the money and come back. If they lose Precious they absolutely have to make a trade from a position where everyone knows we need a C, that doesn't read like a team that expected to lose a player.

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

Why does that take him off the board? Doesn't that make him more likely? Send Riles a pick as well?

S&T has to be 3 years (the remaining 2 can be not guaranteed) but you can't sign and trade someone for 1 year which it is being reported as.

And the destination...Miami I don't think is eligible for a S&T with there cap situation.