Trades and Transactions thread cont - post Mikal trade

[Jalen Bluntson]

Interesting points from (1) are that to calculate the Apron Team Salary you start with the usual Team Salary (which we know and love for calculating whether a teams is under the salary cap or not) and then add and subtract things. They could have set this out (in my opinion) more clearly by just giving a separate list derived from these additions and subtractions, but .. whatever.

Anyway, aside from needing to add the unlikely incentives, amongst the subtractions are any amount to an unsigned FRP and any incomplete roster charge. (Let's get to the free agents and those under options later).

Whilst in the fullness of time the Knicks either will or will not have a contract with Dadiet, they don't as of this moment, afaik.

So JCohen's table seems not to be a complete reflection of the Knicks Apron Team Salary as of right now (or as of July 1st when he wrote it). That's about $6m more space.

Am I missing something here? (Richard4444? WargamesX?)

(Let's think about free agents etc in another post.)

I saw these rules a couple of months ago. And I gave up. I chose to believe what the experts were saying.

I don't think Jeremy is wrong. What would be his mistake?

I'm not sure I'd call it a mistake, but it's a snap-shot of where he thinks the Knicks will roughly end up or somewhere close to that.

Diakite is missing and the new picks are all listed - when I'm pretty sure that Diakite hasn't been renounced and the picks haven't been offered contracts yet.

Diakite is non gtd so it doesn't have to be in there. The picks count against the cap or they go with a vet min cap hold instead. Obviously these numbers can and most likely will change but, you have to start somewhere and this is all we have to work with. Do you think the team is going to work off the higher cap holds? Makes no sense to do so IMO.

[mpharris36]

It's starting to seem like they really thought they were a lock to resign Ihart and had no contingency. Apparently some teams are interested in Precious as well.

I don't see how that is possible with the CAA connection and the Begley reporting which seems to have been spot on this summer...there were reports from Begley and Woj before the draft/after the Mikal trade we weren't liking our chances of bringing back ihart and expected him to get a big offer elsewhere.

Also since they had the 4/72 on the table they had to have some avenue to get out of the 1st apron...that still isn't yet clear after all this.

If they knew this were going to happen they would have lined up a trade in that event, as it stands it sounds like they were trying to expand the Bridges trade to include other players so that they could have more money in FA yet there's no centers left in FA. Just seems like they really thought Ihart would turn down the money and come back. If they lose Precious they absolutely have to make a trade from a position where everyone knows we need a C, that doesn't read like a team that expected to lose a player.

its been too quiet I think they have something still up there sleeve you are hearing interest for young cheap centers that would potentially fit. To be honest they probably felt Goga might be coming more than anything. Not sure why he took a few more million in ORL with that log jam over getting a locked in rotation spot and maybe starter (once mitch has his typical injuries). ORL resigned Mo Wagner as well so Goga is back to playing a very small roll of the bench.

Obviously Precious has the NY connection so maybe he's an option...I think ultimately they are just trying to figure out this 1st apron hard cap thing first...maybe they already have and have moves lined up and they are just operating in the dark right now until the 6th.

[WargamesX]

I don't see how that is possible with the CAA connection and the Begley reporting which seems to have been spot on this summer...there were reports from Begley and Woj before the draft/after the Mikal trade we weren't liking our chances of bringing back ihart and expected him to get a big offer elsewhere.

Also since they had the 4/72 on the table they had to have some avenue to get out of the 1st apron...that still isn't yet clear after all this.

If they knew this were going to happen they would have lined up a trade in that event, as it stands it sounds like they were trying to expand the Bridges trade to include other players so that they could have more money in FA yet there's no centers left in FA. Just seems like they really thought Ihart would turn down the money and come back. If they lose Precious they absolutely have to make a trade from a position where everyone knows we need a C, that doesn't read like a team that expected to lose a player.

its been too quiet I think they have something still up there sleeve you are hearing interest for young cheap centers that would potentially fit. To be honest they probably felt Goga might be coming more than anything. Not sure why he took a few more million in ORL with that log jam over getting a locked in rotation spot and maybe starter (once mitch has his typical injuries). ORL resigned Mo Wagner as well so Goga is back to playing a very small roll of the bench.

Obviously Precious has the NY connection so maybe he's an option...I think ultimately they are just trying to figure out this 1st apron hard cap thing first...maybe they already have and have moves lined up and they are just operating in the dark right now until the 6th.

Personally I think teams are trying to lock the Knicks out of the market. I can’t prove it, it’s pure speculation, but it’s the petty stuff teams do when the Knicks get involved.

[mpharris36]

If they knew this were going to happen they would have lined up a trade in that event, as it stands it sounds like they were trying to expand the Bridges trade to include other players so that they could have more money in FA yet there's no centers left in FA. Just seems like they really thought Ihart would turn down the money and come back. If they lose Precious they absolutely have to make a trade from a position where everyone knows we need a C, that doesn't read like a team that expected to lose a player.

its been too quiet I think they have something still up there sleeve you are hearing interest for young cheap centers that would potentially fit. To be honest they probably felt Goga might be coming more than anything. Not sure why he took a few more million in ORL with that log jam over getting a locked in rotation spot and maybe starter (once mitch has his typical injuries). ORL resigned Mo Wagner as well so Goga is back to playing a very small roll of the bench.

Obviously Precious has the NY connection so maybe he's an option...I think ultimately they are just trying to figure out this 1st apron hard cap thing first...maybe they already have and have moves lined up and they are just operating in the dark right now until the 6th.

Personally I think teams are trying to lock the Knicks out of the market. I can’t prove it, it’s pure speculation, but it’s the petty stuff teams do when the Knicks get involved.

they seem they have enough teams that don't mind trading with them for that not to be the case.

Like I said they had to have something in the works to offer Ihart 4/72 they couldn't do that with the Mikal trade as currently reported.

So unless they didn't want to trade Duece but that was there break glass in case of emergency option they had to have had something in the works. Thats not something you just willy nilly offer ihart with no way to actually physically offer it.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

I saw these rules a couple of months ago. And I gave up. I chose to believe what the experts were saying.

I don't think Jeremy is wrong. What would be his mistake?

I'm not sure I'd call it a mistake, but it's a snap-shot of where he thinks the Knicks will roughly end up or somewhere close to that.

Diakite is missing and the new picks are all listed - when I'm pretty sure that Diakite hasn't been renounced and the picks haven't been offered contracts yet.

Diakite is non gtd so it doesn't have to be in there. The picks count against the cap or they go with a vet min cap hold instead. Obviously these numbers can and most likely will change but, you have to start somewhere and this is all we have to work with. Do you think the team is going to work off the higher cap holds? Makes no sense to do so IMO.

The picks count against the Team Salary but not against the Apron Team Salary. See my long post.

I'm also interested to see where non guaranteed contracts are not counted. I couldn't find that - but I'm far from an expert, just a random reading a slightly convoluted, badly typographed text.

And if you are correct on that then Sims should be listed for $670k or whatever it is that is currently guaranteed and not the full $2m

[knickstape4ever]

Read on Twitter

suggests Mitch, Deuce, returning Detroit's 1st, and some 2nds for Jaden Ivey and Jalen Duren

doesn't make much sense to me tbh just swapping centers if we're not gaining another. that being said I do love Ivey and Duren, wanted both that year and it would be great to save them from Detroit, the new basketball hell

[Context]

I don't see how that is possible with the CAA connection and the Begley reporting which seems to have been spot on this summer...there were reports from Begley and Woj before the draft/after the Mikal trade we weren't liking our chances of bringing back ihart and expected him to get a big offer elsewhere.

Also since they had the 4/72 on the table they had to have some avenue to get out of the 1st apron...that still isn't yet clear after all this.

If they knew this were going to happen they would have lined up a trade in that event, as it stands it sounds like they were trying to expand the Bridges trade to include other players so that they could have more money in FA yet there's no centers left in FA. Just seems like they really thought Ihart would turn down the money and come back. If they lose Precious they absolutely have to make a trade from a position where everyone knows we need a C, that doesn't read like a team that expected to lose a player.

its been too quiet I think they have something still up there sleeve

this is where im at mph....

[BrOnXKing1]

I wandering if the Knicks management is panicking now trying to prevent the hard cap at the first apron. Im sure the Nets are not eager to help the situation and are probably demanding Deuce

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I don't see how that is possible with the CAA connection and the Begley reporting which seems to have been spot on this summer...there were reports from Begley and Woj before the draft/after the Mikal trade we weren't liking our chances of bringing back ihart and expected him to get a big offer elsewhere.

Also since they had the 4/72 on the table they had to have some avenue to get out of the 1st apron...that still isn't yet clear after all this.

If they knew this were going to happen they would have lined up a trade in that event, as it stands it sounds like they were trying to expand the Bridges trade to include other players so that they could have more money in FA yet there's no centers left in FA. Just seems like they really thought Ihart would turn down the money and come back. If they lose Precious they absolutely have to make a trade from a position where everyone knows we need a C, that doesn't read like a team that expected to lose a player.

its been too quiet I think they have something still up there sleeve you are hearing interest for young cheap centers that would potentially fit. To be honest they probably felt Goga might be coming more than anything. Not sure why he took a few more million in ORL with that log jam over getting a locked in rotation spot and maybe starter (once mitch has his typical injuries). ORL resigned Mo Wagner as well so Goga is back to playing a very small roll of the bench.

Obviously Precious has the NY connection so maybe he's an option...I think ultimately they are just trying to figure out this 1st apron hard cap thing first...maybe they already have and have moves lined up and they are just operating in the dark right now until the 6th.

They were willing to pay Goga more than we could offer him, it just comes down to the money, same reason we lost Ihart.

Last report on Precious is that there were contenders interested in him, we basically have nobody other than Precious and Deuce to include in that trade now too, so we could very well lose him no matter what we do. I don't think the NY connection matters that much, whoever offers him the most money will get him, he hasn't yet been paid like an NBA player

Maybe they have a deal for Richards worked out that will go through on the 6th, but it's just weirdly quiet and if we can't get Richards or Kessler, our season hinges on whether or not Mitch can actually be somewhat healthy which is poor odds. We are more insulated from a Randle or OG injury than we are from Mitch getting hurt if all we're left with is Sims.

[mpharris36]

If they knew this were going to happen they would have lined up a trade in that event, as it stands it sounds like they were trying to expand the Bridges trade to include other players so that they could have more money in FA yet there's no centers left in FA. Just seems like they really thought Ihart would turn down the money and come back. If they lose Precious they absolutely have to make a trade from a position where everyone knows we need a C, that doesn't read like a team that expected to lose a player.

its been too quiet I think they have something still up there sleeve you are hearing interest for young cheap centers that would potentially fit. To be honest they probably felt Goga might be coming more than anything. Not sure why he took a few more million in ORL with that log jam over getting a locked in rotation spot and maybe starter (once mitch has his typical injuries). ORL resigned Mo Wagner as well so Goga is back to playing a very small roll of the bench.

Obviously Precious has the NY connection so maybe he's an option...I think ultimately they are just trying to figure out this 1st apron hard cap thing first...maybe they already have and have moves lined up and they are just operating in the dark right now until the 6th.

They were willing to pay Goga more than we could offer him, it just comes down to the money, same reason we lost Ihart.

Last report on Precious is that there were contenders interested in him, we basically have nobody other than Precious and Deuce to include in that trade now too, so we could very well lose him no matter what we do. I don't think the NY connection matters that much, whoever offers him the most money will get him, he hasn't yet been paid like an NBA player

Maybe they have a deal for Richards worked out that will go through on the 6th, but it's just weirdly quiet and if we can't get Richards or Kessler, our season hinges on whether or not Mitch can actually be somewhat healthy which is poor odds. We are more insulated from a Randle or OG injury than we are from Mitch getting hurt if all we're left with is Sims.

there is a slight difference between OKC giving Ihart nearly 14 MM more per season then gogal taking 3 MM more from ORL...role matters to FA's as well...if Goga just sticks to 10-15 minute roll off the bench he isn't going to get paid anymore than he is right now.

Goga has a good year here and opted out he makes way more than 8 MM ORL offered him. But I guess he didn't want gamble on himself a bit.

[mpharris36]

I wandering if the Knicks management is panicking now trying to prevent the hard cap at the first apron. Im sure the Nets are not eager to help the situation and are probably demanding Deuce

we dont' have to give Duece to them we can in theory trade duece to a 3rd team for assets as well. Nets really can't demand anything there part of the deal is agreed to.

[Richard4444]

Read on Twitter

suggests Mitch, Deuce, returning Detroit's 1st, and some 2nds for Jaden Ivey and Jalen Duren

doesn't make much sense to me tbh just swapping centers if we're not gaining another. that being said I do love Ivey and Duren, wanted both that year and it would be great to save them from Detroit, the new basketball hell

We would save 5 million and it would open the full MLE to grab another center in the process. But the options would not be excellent considering we would run out of assets to trade using the MLE and there are not good FA centers available.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

its been too quiet I think they have something still up there sleeve you are hearing interest for young cheap centers that would potentially fit. To be honest they probably felt Goga might be coming more than anything. Not sure why he took a few more million in ORL with that log jam over getting a locked in rotation spot and maybe starter (once mitch has his typical injuries). ORL resigned Mo Wagner as well so Goga is back to playing a very small roll of the bench.

Obviously Precious has the NY connection so maybe he's an option...I think ultimately they are just trying to figure out this 1st apron hard cap thing first...maybe they already have and have moves lined up and they are just operating in the dark right now until the 6th.

They were willing to pay Goga more than we could offer him, it just comes down to the money, same reason we lost Ihart.

Last report on Precious is that there were contenders interested in him, we basically have nobody other than Precious and Deuce to include in that trade now too, so we could very well lose him no matter what we do. I don't think the NY connection matters that much, whoever offers him the most money will get him, he hasn't yet been paid like an NBA player

Maybe they have a deal for Richards worked out that will go through on the 6th, but it's just weirdly quiet and if we can't get Richards or Kessler, our season hinges on whether or not Mitch can actually be somewhat healthy which is poor odds. We are more insulated from a Randle or OG injury than we are from Mitch getting hurt if all we're left with is Sims.

there is a slight difference between OKC giving Ihart nearly 14 MM more per season then gogal taking 3 MM more from ORL...role matters to FA's as well...if Goga just sticks to 10-15 minute roll off the bench he isn't going to get paid anymore than he is right now.

Goga has a good year here and opted out he makes way more than 8 MM ORL offered him. But I guess he didn't want gamble on himself a bit.

You're forgetting that Florida has no state income tax and a much lower cost of living, especially in Orlando. His money there with no tax is going to stretch a lot further than it does here, guys on their first real contract aren't going to pass up more money, it almost never happens. If all we can offer Precious is $5 million per and the Pelicans offer him $8 million per, he's gone.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Paul Reed anyone?

[Richard4444]

Read on Twitter

Why does that take him off the board? Doesn't that make him more likely? Send Riles a pick as well?

We can only do a sign and trade for 3 years (the first guaranteed).

He signed for 1 year only.

[spree2kawhi]

Read on Twitter

suggests Mitch, Deuce, returning Detroit's 1st, and some 2nds for Jaden Ivey and Jalen Duren

doesn't make much sense to me tbh just swapping centers if we're not gaining another. that being said I do love Ivey and Duren, wanted both that year and it would be great to save them from Detroit, the new basketball hell

Sounds great. Does it have any legs?

[spree2kawhi]

Paul Reed anyone?

He’s good.

[R-DAWG]

Read on Twitter

suggests Mitch, Deuce, returning Detroit's 1st, and some 2nds for Jaden Ivey and Jalen Duren

doesn't make much sense to me tbh just swapping centers if we're not gaining another. that being said I do love Ivey and Duren, wanted both that year and it would be great to save them from Detroit, the new basketball hell

We would save 5 million and it would open the full MLE to grab another center in the process. But the options would not be excellent considering we would run out of assets to trade using the MLE and there are not good centers available.

This would have made more sense before all the full MLE centers got gobbled up.

I'm and Ivey fan and think he would solve our shot creation need off the bench, but at this point Duran is a downgrade from Mitch.

[R-DAWG]

Read on Twitter

Why does that take him off the board? Doesn't that make him more likely? Send Riles a pick as well?

We can only do a sign and trade for 3 years (the first guaranteed).

He signed for 1 year only.

Miami is past the first apron, so can not accept a player over sign and trade.

[Richard4444]

Why does that take him off the board? Doesn't that make him more likely? Send Riles a pick as well?

We can only do a sign and trade for 3 years (the first guaranteed).

He signed for 1 year only.

Miami is past the first apron, so can not accept a player over sign and trade.

Also that.

Although, they are trying to cook something to get out the apron to land DeRozan.