A positive take on Holland (John Hollinger)

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Whether Holland develops or not isn't a question that can be answered right now, but what is clear is that A) Langdon is playing the long game and B) more moves are coming.

That may be smart, but for the Pistons faithful, it doesn't bode well for having watchability next season. Right now the whole season seems like it will come down to one assistant coach working magic with half (or possibly more) of the roster.

[TPA]

Sorry if this was posted elsewhere, but I didn't find Hollinger's full write-up of Holland anywhere within this topic:

Tier I - Best bets in bad class
#1 Ron Holland - Age: 18, Height: 6-7, Position: F

Ron Holland? Yes, Ron Holland. Let’s start with the negatives first:

I think Holland is only going to measure 6-6 at the NBA Draft Combine, he shot a ghastly 24 percent from 3 in the G League, and his avert-your-eyes start to the G League season — including an 11-turnover game — had scouts shuddering.

Now, for the good news: He came into the year as the top-rated player on most boards, had better numbers with G League Ignite than any other one-and-done in its history … and somehow went careening down draft boards anyway, even in a draft year where absolutely nobody came in and claimed the top spot for themselves.

I don’t really get it. The biggest complaint with Holland is his lack of efficiency, but that was baked in the second Ignite built this roster. Virtually any teenager put in a situation where he has to carry a 30 percent usage rate is going to struggle; we saw it with LaMelo Ball in Australia and Scoot Henderson in Portland. Holland was no different, especially since he’s not a natural point guard in the first place. Playing on a team with no real creator, he often had to call his own number against loaded-up defenses.

Did he get tunnel vision once he put it on the floor? Absolutely. Was it so tragic to rule him out versus other non-overwhelming options? I don’t think so, especially as the season wore on.

Holland's numbers stack up well against Jalen Green’s with Ignite and are superior to every other Ignite perimeter player who has come through. That happened despite Holland missing the final two months of the season, when his increasing experience would have given him an edge and when the rest of the G League is at its most depleted due to call-ups and fewer assignment players.

In his Ignite season, Green posted a 15.4 PER with 61.3 percent true shooting; Holland had a 15.8 PER on 56.5 percent. The shooting numbers were bad, but Green played on a more coherent team and thus also was only asked to carry a 23 percent usage rate at this level, not Holland’s 28 percent. Also, keep in mind that Holland’s free-throw rate was pretty massive for a perimeter player; four free-throw attempts per game may not seem like much until you remember the G League shoots one attempt that counts for two points. Only 10 players in the whole G League matched his rate. And even with Holland’s brutal early turnover issues, his assist and turnover rates were essentially the same as Green’s age-18 season.

Green would be the No. 1 pick in this draft; I think Holland should be too.

The other reason to like Holland is his defense. His 3.5 percent steal rate stands out; some iffy gambles spiked the total, but there is real talent (and fire) on this end. Overall, his rates of rebounds, steals and blocks compare favorably to former Ignite lottery pick Dyson Daniels, for instance, who has now become an awesome defender at the NBA level. I think Holland has similar pathways to being elite at this end.

On top of that, there’s the good ol’ eye test. I’ve seen Holland shoot a ton, both before games and during them, having watched him in person several times over the last year. He has a low push shot that needs some work, but he’s also not a 24 percent 3-point shooter. His 72.8 percent mark from the line is a more accurate tell on where he stands as a shooter — he isn't Stephen Curry, but his shot isn’t broken either. Just reaching the point where he makes one in three would make him a potent two-way wing, and that feels attainable.

Lastly, consider Holland’s age. With a July 2005 birthdate, he’s nearly a full year younger than several other players vying for places with him in the high lottery: He's six months younger than Rob Dillingham, nine months younger than Stephon Castle or Matas Buzelis and more than a year younger than Donovan Clingan and Reed Sheppard. Teams get caught on class year, but birth year is what matters.

It's not a slam dunk, and you could make a credible case for several players, but Holland has been the top player on my board since the 2023 Hoop Summit. He still has the best overall résumé.

Note: this was published May 13th, just at the start of the NBA Draft Combine
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5484657/2024/05/13/nba-draft-2024-top-prospects-players-hollinger/

[zeebneeb]

Sorry if this was posted elsewhere, but I didn't find Hollinger's full write-up of Holland anywhere within this topic:

Tier I - Best bets in bad class
#1 Ron Holland - Age: 18, Height: 6-7, Position: F

Ron Holland? Yes, Ron Holland. Let’s start with the negatives first:

I think Holland is only going to measure 6-6 at the NBA Draft Combine, he shot a ghastly 24 percent from 3 in the G League, and his avert-your-eyes start to the G League season — including an 11-turnover game — had scouts shuddering.

Now, for the good news: He came into the year as the top-rated player on most boards, had better numbers with G League Ignite than any other one-and-done in its history … and somehow went careening down draft boards anyway, even in a draft year where absolutely nobody came in and claimed the top spot for themselves.

I don’t really get it. The biggest complaint with Holland is his lack of efficiency, but that was baked in the second Ignite built this roster. Virtually any teenager put in a situation where he has to carry a 30 percent usage rate is going to struggle; we saw it with LaMelo Ball in Australia and Scoot Henderson in Portland. Holland was no different, especially since he’s not a natural point guard in the first place. Playing on a team with no real creator, he often had to call his own number against loaded-up defenses.

Did he get tunnel vision once he put it on the floor? Absolutely. Was it so tragic to rule him out versus other non-overwhelming options? I don’t think so, especially as the season wore on.

Holland's numbers stack up well against Jalen Green’s with Ignite and are superior to every other Ignite perimeter player who has come through. That happened despite Holland missing the final two months of the season, when his increasing experience would have given him an edge and when the rest of the G League is at its most depleted due to call-ups and fewer assignment players.

In his Ignite season, Green posted a 15.4 PER with 61.3 percent true shooting; Holland had a 15.8 PER on 56.5 percent. The shooting numbers were bad, but Green played on a more coherent team and thus also was only asked to carry a 23 percent usage rate at this level, not Holland’s 28 percent. Also, keep in mind that Holland’s free-throw rate was pretty massive for a perimeter player; four free-throw attempts per game may not seem like much until you remember the G League shoots one attempt that counts for two points. Only 10 players in the whole G League matched his rate. And even with Holland’s brutal early turnover issues, his assist and turnover rates were essentially the same as Green’s age-18 season.

Green would be the No. 1 pick in this draft; I think Holland should be too.

The other reason to like Holland is his defense. His 3.5 percent steal rate stands out; some iffy gambles spiked the total, but there is real talent (and fire) on this end. Overall, his rates of rebounds, steals and blocks compare favorably to former Ignite lottery pick Dyson Daniels, for instance, who has now become an awesome defender at the NBA level. I think Holland has similar pathways to being elite at this end.

On top of that, there’s the good ol’ eye test. I’ve seen Holland shoot a ton, both before games and during them, having watched him in person several times over the last year. He has a low push shot that needs some work, but he’s also not a 24 percent 3-point shooter. His 72.8 percent mark from the line is a more accurate tell on where he stands as a shooter — he isn't Stephen Curry, but his shot isn’t broken either. Just reaching the point where he makes one in three would make him a potent two-way wing, and that feels attainable.

Lastly, consider Holland’s age. With a July 2005 birthdate, he’s nearly a full year younger than several other players vying for places with him in the high lottery: He's six months younger than Rob Dillingham, nine months younger than Stephon Castle or Matas Buzelis and more than a year younger than Donovan Clingan and Reed Sheppard. Teams get caught on class year, but birth year is what matters.

It's not a slam dunk, and you could make a credible case for several players, but Holland has been the top player on my board since the 2023 Hoop Summit. He still has the best overall résumé.

Note: this was published May 13th, just at the start of the NBA Draft Combine
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5484657/2024/05/13/nba-draft-2024-top-prospects-players-hollinger/

1 make every 3 shots eh?

If he did that, the backcourt duo of Cade/Holland would be devastating, right out of the gates.

18 years old. Damn. This team has to have one of the youngest cores in NBA history.

[Kp junior]

As a comparison - what was numbers Ivey putting up at 18 years old? Against college kids I assume?
What numbers was someone like Anthony Edwards doing at 18?


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[Canadafan]

.

Note: this was published May 13th, just at the start of the NBA Draft Combine
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5484657/2024/05/13/nba-draft-2024-top-prospects-players-hollinger/

1 make every 3 shots eh?

If he did that, the backcourt duo of Cade/Holland would be devastating, right out of the gates.

18 years old. Damn. This team has to have one of the youngest cores in NBA history.[/quote]

It's early but your thoughts just gave me extreme hope for the future. Cade Holland Ausar all at 6'6" minimum with 2 of them being possible elite defenders. Love itttt

[TPA]

I posted this article because I remember not being as concerned with Holland's shot (based on this write-up) as a lot of others seem to be. Even watching his draft videos, I never really thought that he had a horribly "broken" looking shot. Enter Fred Vinson... If he can tweak Holland and Ausar's percentages up 7-8% each over the next season or two, I think they can both certainly be playable together.

[Kp junior]

Ok I had a look. Anthony Edwards went 27/99 in his last 12 college games from 3. So 27% from the college line against college kids.
Holland went at 27.5% in his last 11 games, from the nba 3 point line, against pros.
And yet he’s unplayable apparently ?


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[mattao313]

Ron holland is a lot better than people are giving him credit for in this thread. He is a better prospect than Thompson and is a legit force going down hill with decent handles and counters. Thompson does not have the handle, footwork, or finishing that holland has. Only thing he has on holland is passing but he can barely dribble so he can't take full advantage of it.

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[zeebneeb]

It would be amazing if Holland just burst onto the scene. Honestly, it would be exactly what the players, front office, team needs.

When was the last time, the Pistons drafted a player, and they hit the ground running?

That would be a huge win.

[TPA]

It would be amazing if Holland just burst onto the scene. Honestly, it would be exactly what the players, front office, team needs.

When was the last time, the Pistons drafted a player, and they hit the ground running?

That would be a huge win.

I'll bet that Holland comes into Summer League and goes nuclear. I'm really looking forward to seeing who the Pistons put out there with him, and how Holland performs, specifically. He's a very confident player and I really think he's going to tear it up.

[coordinator0]

Ron holland is a lot better than people are giving him credit for in this thread. He is a better prospect than Thompson and is a legit force going down hill with decent handles and counters. Thompson does not have the handle, footwork, or finishing that holland has. Only thing he has on holland is passing but he can barely dribble so he can't take full advantage of it.

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I agree, but I also think Ausar is/was a significantly better defensive prospect than Holland. He's a bit bigger/longer and more athletic to go along with the actual ability and instincts. In my opinion that side of Holland's status has been inflated a bit. He's definitely got the defensive upside but I'm not convinced that it's quite at the level of being passable in the NBA right now.

[mattao313]

Ron holland is a lot better than people are giving him credit for in this thread. He is a better prospect than Thompson and is a legit force going down hill with decent handles and counters. Thompson does not have the handle, footwork, or finishing that holland has. Only thing he has on holland is passing but he can barely dribble so he can't take full advantage of it.

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I agree, but I also think Ausar is/was a significantly better defensive prospect than Holland. He's a bit bigger/longer and more athletic to go along with the actual ability and instincts. In my opinion that side of Holland's status has been inflated a bit. He's definitely got the defensive upside but I'm not convinced that it's quite at the level of being passable in the NBA right now.

Possibly? it was questions about the comp in ote and how the Thompson twins game and defense would translate but I'll give you that. But I disagree with the athleticism part. Thompson is definitely more bouncy and just floats around the court but imo Holland really has a great first step and body control that is a level above Thompson. Maybe it's just because Holland is more advanced offensively but that's how I see it.

Overall I think Thompsons best out come is a high-level role player. Holland’s best outcome is a Jaylen brown, Jimmy Butler type of two way all-star.

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[TC-Flint]

Hopefully, Holland shows more to get me excited than Ausar did. They are both works in progress and I hope for improvement with Coach Bickerstaff.

[Pharaoh]

Hopefully, Holland shows more to get me excited than Ausar did. They are both works in progress and I hope for improvement with Coach Bickerstaff.

Ausar started out pretty good IMO

Obviously lots to improve on but that's to be expected of any rookie.

Assuming Ausar and Holland reach their potential...what does that tandem look like with Cade?

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[Spider156]

Hopefully it all works out.

No doubt Fred Vinson will be the busiest coach in the association this season

Seriously. Vecenie made a joke about him asking for a raise already.

I really don’t like Vecenie anymore. I liked him briefly in the past, all the guy does is talk smack. Trash analyst.

[Kalamazoo317]

Hopefully, Holland shows more to get me excited than Ausar did. They are both works in progress and I hope for improvement with Coach Bickerstaff.

Ausar started out pretty good IMO

Obviously lots to improve on but that's to be expected of any rookie.

Assuming Ausar and Holland reach their potential...what does that tandem look like with Cade?

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I mean, their absolute ceilings are like all-star 3 and D wings. We'd presumably be really, really good.

[Piston Pete]

Holland officially signed today!!!


Ps - we signed G Daniss Jenkins to a 2-way deal today too.