Moderators: j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36
mpharris36 wrote:Duren at this point can't be a starter for a contender. He's young and talented. Good raw stats but he's absolutely lost defensivrly.
We aren't trading Mitch to downgrade at the position. Ivey still raw as well.
That move makes no sense for both parties. Outside of DET getting there pick back not sure where DET would give up on those guys they should be developing.
And it makes zero sense for a win now team like the Knicks.
sol537 wrote:Nick Richards for 2nd rounders and just bring back Precious regardless.
Revisit at the deadline…
GONYK wrote:mpharris36 wrote:Duren at this point can't be a starter for a contender. He's young and talented. Good raw stats but he's absolutely lost defensivrly.
We aren't trading Mitch to downgrade at the position. Ivey still raw as well.
That move makes no sense for both parties. Outside of DET getting there pick back not sure where DET would give up on those guys they should be developing.
And it makes zero sense for a win now team like the Knicks.
Detroit should be giving us picks
knickstape4ever wrote:
suggests Mitch, Deuce, returning Detroit's 1st, and some 2nds for Jaden Ivey and Jalen Duren
doesn't make much sense to me tbh just swapping centers if we're not gaining another. that being said I do love Ivey and Duren, wanted both that year and it would be great to save them from Detroit, the new basketball hell
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:sol537 wrote:Nick Richards for 2nd rounders and just bring back Precious regardless.
Revisit at the deadline…
Mark Williams is injury prone and Richards starts a lot of games as a result, if they're trading Richards they're gonna want Deuce IMO, especially since in theory he should be able to play next to LaMelo.
Fat Kat wrote:
sol537 wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:sol537 wrote:Nick Richards for 2nd rounders and just bring back Precious regardless.
Revisit at the deadline…
Mark Williams is injury prone and Richards starts a lot of games as a result, if they're trading Richards they're gonna want Deuce IMO, especially since in theory he should be able to play next to LaMelo.
Pass on trading Deuce then. Just grab Precious back and let him and Mitch do their thing. Mitch is a beast when healthy. Maybe our new head doc can help keep him on the floor for more games.
B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:Richard4444 wrote:B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:The picks count against the Team Salary but not against the Apron Team Salary. See my long post.
I'm also interested to see where non guaranteed contracts are not counted. I couldn't find that - but I'm far from an expert, just a random reading a slightly convoluted, badly typographed text.
And if you are correct on that then Sims should be listed for $670k or whatever it is that is currently guaranteed and not the full $2m
1) Jeremy did not not count picks against the apron. He counts players' salary against the apron after they get signed. But, to simplify, he just named the players as picks.
2) Sims was not waived for now. So his whole salary should counted for now.
3) Any vet min player we signed will generate a 2,1M cap hit. So naming him Sims or Diakite does not matter.
Really, I don't agree with 1 or 2 (if you are really interested read my long post quoting the CBA again( and I don't recall Cohen having another vet min on his list beyond Sims. But I've talked about this enough for one afternoon, so let me dis-engage here - apologies.
Chanel Bomber wrote:Fat Kat wrote:
GOAT move
mpharris36 wrote:GONYK wrote:mpharris36 wrote:Duren at this point can't be a starter for a contender. He's young and talented. Good raw stats but he's absolutely lost defensivrly.
We aren't trading Mitch to downgrade at the position. Ivey still raw as well.
That move makes no sense for both parties. Outside of DET getting there pick back not sure where DET would give up on those guys they should be developing.
And it makes zero sense for a win now team like the Knicks.
Detroit should be giving us picks
Probably but Dureb probably has more value to them then us. Just like Mitch has more value to us then them.
All around bad trade.
tough to make a judgement …monty Williams coaching was horrendous, he hated Ivey and misplayed himmpharris36 wrote:Duren at this point can't be a starter for a contender. He's young and talented. Good raw stats but he's absolutely lost defensivrly.
We aren't trading Mitch to downgrade at the position. Ivey still raw as well.
That move makes no sense for both parties. Outside of DET getting there pick back not sure where DET would give up on those guys they should be developing.
And it makes zero sense for a win now team like the Knicks.
Capn'O wrote:I wonder what Paul Reed's feelings are about metal bats.
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:Fat Kat wrote:
GOAT move
Does this move them into the top 2, or just the top 5?
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:Fat Kat wrote:
GOAT move
Does this move them into the top 2, or just the top 5?
TerrenceClarke wrote:Proposing Duren means dude don’t watch enough basketball this year.
He is one of the worst defensive centers in the NBA. He was supposed to baby Dwight but he offers no rim protection. You would rather have a injury prone Mitch than Duren to man the paint.
3toheadmelo wrote:TerrenceClarke wrote:Proposing Duren means dude don’t watch enough basketball this year.
He is one of the worst defensive centers in the NBA. He was supposed to baby Dwight but he offers no rim protection. You would rather have a injury prone Mitch than Duren to man the paint.
we dont let facts get in the way of bothering sham
TrueWarrior wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/UtahJazz/comments/1dultl3/walker_kessler_trade_value/Knicks fan coming in peace. With the Knicks reported interest in Kessler, curious to hear from Jazz fans what you would expect in return for Kessler.
Would a package of McBride (if you don't like McBride assume this is an unprotected 1st from a middle of the pack team, as I'm very confident the Knicks can flip him for that if needed), one of the protected 2025 1sts (WAS top 10, DET top 13), and 2 2nd rounders be in range? Would Pacome Dadiet be of any interest? Is Kessler even on the trade block?No we don't need McBride, as Isaiah, Keyonte, Brice, and Cody are 19, and 20, and he'd take minutes from them. I see no way he goes to the Knicks, as the Pistons, and Wizards firsts you have basically won't convey, and if they do, they'll be out of the lottery
Jazz likely would want 1 good first, or 2 lightly protected picks (that aren't fake firsts like the Pistons, and Wizards picks) for one of the best shot blockers in the NBA, on a cheap contract, while Ainge knows the Center market is valuable, as I've seen other teams subs crying that they need a center (Pelicans, Lakers, etc)Trading Walker for picks just makes no sense to me at all unless it’s a pick that’s highly likely to be in the top 10 - but I am a big Kessler fan. A collection of mid picks to maybe have what a 10% chance of picking somebody impactful like Walker? Jazz shouldn’t be in any rush to trade him.WAS top 10 protected and DET top 13 protected picks won't convey. But still, 1 middle of the pack frp and 2 average srps is a pretty good value for Kessler. I'm not interested in McBride but am interested of Dadiet.A mid-late 1st and a bunch of 2nds essentially. Everyone knows the WAS and DET 1sts are unlikely to ever convey.
It’d probably get some level of interest, but I could see the Jazz wanting an extra 1st over the 2ndsI would think that the FO would wait and see if Kessler could raise his value during the first half of the season. Maybe if they aren't expecting him to improve, he might be on the trade block. I doubt they are trying to pick up any more guards, but Ainge is happy to give anyone away for a few draft picks.2 1sts knowing dannyI really like McBride and a lot of other players on the current Knicks team, but I don't see Ainge making this deal without getting a Nova guy or OG in return.
Sounds crazy, right? Especially since Kessler just had a down year. Here's my theory:
If Kessler brings his offense up to "passable" then he's an elite rim protecting center you can build an entire defense around. Despite struggles on offense, his defense was still fantastic last season. The Jazz value that talent more than adding another guard to roster that already has high-upside guards.
The Jazz don't want mid-first-round picks. They've drafted 6 guys in the past 2 years. They've got 2–4 first rounders every year from now through 2029. There's no way to fit all these picks on a roster. So, it would take an elite pick for the Jazz to see value in it. The Knicks don't currently have the rights to any high-value picks since the WAS and DET firsts are heavily protected.
From the way the Warriors pivoted from Lauri to Buddy Hield, it makes me believe that Utah has made it known they will only move off their assets (Kessler, Lauri) if they are getting an all-star or a young player with serious star potential. It's a steep price, but with so many picks and youngsters, it's the only thing that actually adds value to the Jazz at this stage.
I don't think the Knicks have what it takes to entice the Jazz without giving up someone who's essential to their title chase. I just don't see a Kessler-to-the-Knicks trade happening unless a third team gets involved.
Watch, we'll wake up tomorrow and the trade will be done. Come back and clown me if so. I'd definitely deserve it.
HarthorneWingo wrote:TerrenceClarke wrote:Proposing Duren means dude don’t watch enough basketball this year.
He is one of the worst defensive centers in the NBA. He was supposed to baby Dwight but he offers no rim protection. You would rather have an injury prone Mitch than Duren to man the paint.
That bad? Wow. That’s surprising given how athletic he is. Maybe being in Detroit isn’t the best situation for him?
