[Woj] Free agent C Isaiah Hartenstein has agreed on a three-year, $87 million deal with the Oklahoma City Thunder

[nikster]

Yeah, I'd quite confidently say he's 4x better than Drummond and 2x better than Val in 2024-2025.

Do stats line up with that opinion. How about the opportunity cost of better C next Free Agency.
Chet is the developing closing C who is already all star level.


https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense?SeasonType=Regular+Season&PlayerPosition=C

I'm sure on the offensive side of things, Chet will have no problem playing the same spots on the floor as a "stretch 4" instead of a "stretch 5".

And yes, Drummond and Val are practically unplayable as starters today. There's a reason why they're being used as bench players at this point in their careers. iHart was useful enough for the Knicks that there was a very real debate on who makes the starting line up better between him and Robinson with Knick fans.

Yeah it's actually shocking somebody is suggesting Val and Drummond as alternatives. They are both immobile and terrible defensively. They are also slow, post heavy players which doesn't help OKCs style of play, and neither move the ball as well as Hartenstein. Theres a reason why Hartenstein had insane impact stats last season, he plays an important role and he plays it well.

[tcheco]

Imagine thinking that posting a basketball reference link is an argument. lol

This move barely changes any flexibility for Okc, declining contract, fills a need, no picks spent. Arguably there was no better adition for the money to improve this team, they were the first seed and improved their defense, rebounding, passing. If this was a 5 year contract this would be questionable, but a 3 year slight overpay? This is a team not willing to punt a year of the prime of their Star to MAYBE land someone better next year.

[slick_watts]

josh giddey was the obvious problem for the thunder in the playoffs but the less obvious one was what happened when chet holmgren was on the bench. i don't think some people realize how huge an upgrade isaiah hartenstein is over jaylin williams. and if the thunder can find some success with chet / hartenstein lineups on top of that, this is probably the best realistic use of their cap space they could have hoped for this summer. jonas valanciunas and andre drummond don't have the ball moving chops that the thunder were looking for. i call hartenstein "zubac with ball skills" and that's 100% what the thunder needed.

[Slimjimzv]

No one has seen Hartenstein play on OKC system either.

A lower option being 2nd highest paid player has team ramifications

You seem like the kind of person who could win the lottery and complain about the taxes.

Your comment is the type made when you don't have a logical counter to add.

Plus who doesn't complain about taxes
Bringing it back to basketball

Plus contractual overpay leads to luxury tax which markets such as OKC have avoided in the past to the detriment of loss of takent

No, I just learned a long time ago that some people decide they're going to die on an argument hill, and that it's not worth the effort trying to convince them otherwise. I disagree with you, and it appears most of the other people posting here do as well. Diving into stats, telling you about the games I watched, pleading to your sense of logic isn't going to change your stance, as you've adequately proven. So, enjoy being wrong, and I hope you've got a nice, comfortable foxhole dug on that hill you're currently dying on.

[Warriorfan]

Yeah, I'd quite confidently say he's 4x better than Drummond and 2x better than Val in 2024-2025.

Do stats line up with that opinion. How about the opportunity cost of better C next Free Agency.
Chet is the developing closing C who is already all star level.


https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense?SeasonType=Regular+Season&PlayerPosition=C

I'm sure on the offensive side of things, Chet will have no problem playing the same spots on the floor as a "stretch 4" instead of a "stretch 5".

And yes, Drummond and Val are practically unplayable as starters today. There's a reason why they're being used as bench players at this point in their careers. iHart was useful enough for the Knicks that there was a very real debate on who makes the starting line up better between him and Robinson with Knick fans.

Chet is the starter.
Plus being intellectually honest
B4 free agency what would be the fan reaction to the contract eliminating the name just posting the stats 29 million per for a double single guy.

[Warriorfan]

You seem like the kind of person who could win the lottery and complain about the taxes.

Your comment is the type made when you don't have a logical counter to add.

Plus who doesn't complain about taxes
Bringing it back to basketball

Plus contractual overpay leads to luxury tax which markets such as OKC have avoided in the past to the detriment of loss of takent

No, I just learned a long time ago that some people decide they're going to die on an argument hill, and that it's not worth the effort trying to convince them otherwise. I disagree with you, and it appears most of the other people posting here do as well. Diving into stats, telling you about the games I watched, pleading to your sense of logic isn't going to change your stance, as you've adequately proven. So, enjoy being wrong, and I hope you've got a nice, comfortable foxhole dug on that hill you're currently dying on.

Being intellectually honest I'm the only one who posted stats vs all the opinion
Feel free to post where I did not post a logical argument.

[Slimjimzv]

Your comment is the type made when you don't have a logical counter to add.

Plus who doesn't complain about taxes
Bringing it back to basketball

Plus contractual overpay leads to luxury tax which markets such as OKC have avoided in the past to the detriment of loss of takent

No, I just learned a long time ago that some people decide they're going to die on an argument hill, and that it's not worth the effort trying to convince them otherwise. I disagree with you, and it appears most of the other people posting here do as well. Diving into stats, telling you about the games I watched, pleading to your sense of logic isn't going to change your stance, as you've adequately proven. So, enjoy being wrong, and I hope you've got a nice, comfortable foxhole dug on that hill you're currently dying on.

Being intellectually honest I'm the only one who posted stats vs all the opinion

Circumstances change and statistics lie. Here's the great news. The Thunder are going to go ahead and play a season in just a few short months. If your intellectual superiority proves true, you'll get to quote all of these posts and tell us how right you were. If not, I doubt anyone will ever bring it up again.

[Warriorfan]

No, I just learned a long time ago that some people decide they're going to die on an argument hill, and that it's not worth the effort trying to convince them otherwise. I disagree with you, and it appears most of the other people posting here do as well. Diving into stats, telling you about the games I watched, pleading to your sense of logic isn't going to change your stance, as you've adequately proven. So, enjoy being wrong, and I hope you've got a nice, comfortable foxhole dug on that hill you're currently dying on.

Being intellectually honest I'm the only one who posted stats vs all the opinion

Circumstances change and statistics lie. Here's the great news. The Thunder are going to go ahead and play a season in just a few short months. If your intellectual superiority proves true, you'll get to quote all of these posts and tell us how right you were. If not, I doubt anyone will ever bring it up again.

Here is the list of NBA salaries is the mostly career back up double single guy the 40th best player.

6 teams in 5 yrs 12 starts usually describes journeyman fringe NBA


https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

His stats once again.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harteis01.html

[Slimjimzv]

Being intellectually honest I'm the only one who posted stats vs all the opinion

Circumstances change and statistics lie. Here's the great news. The Thunder are going to go ahead and play a season in just a few short months. If your intellectual superiority proves true, you'll get to quote all of these posts and tell us how right you were. If not, I doubt anyone will ever bring it up again.

Here is the list of NBA salaries is the mostly career back up double single guy the 50th best player.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

It's irrelevant. What would OKC have done with the extra money? Their roster is stacked. They have exactly who they want. Sure, they could have saved money and gotten someone they want less, but what would be the point of that? I think Clay Bennet and co can spare enough to cover the difference and if Sam Presti believes the best asset they could add is Hartenstein, then I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I strongly encourage you to do the same.

[sikma42]

josh giddey was the obvious problem for the thunder in the playoffs but the less obvious one was what happened when chet holmgren was on the bench. i don't think some people realize how huge an upgrade isaiah hartenstein is over jaylin williams. and if the thunder can find some success with chet / hartenstein lineups on top of that, this is probably the best realistic use of their cap space they could have hoped for this summer. jonas valanciunas and andre drummond don't have the ball moving chops that the thunder were looking for. i call hartenstein "zubac with ball skills" and that's 100% what the thunder needed.

By Zubac with ball skills, do you mean he’s better than Zubac?


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[tcheco]

Circumstances change and statistics lie. Here's the great news. The Thunder are going to go ahead and play a season in just a few short months. If your intellectual superiority proves true, you'll get to quote all of these posts and tell us how right you were. If not, I doubt anyone will ever bring it up again.

Here is the list of NBA salaries is the mostly career back up double single guy the 50th best player.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

It's irrelevant. What would OKC have done with the extra money? Their roster is stacked. They have exactly who they want. Sure, they could have saved money and gotten someone they want less, but what would be the point of that? I think Clay Bennet and co can spare enough to cover the difference and if Sam Presti believes the best asset they could add is Hartenstein, then I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I strongly encourage you to do the same.

You are arguying with a kid that sees the game as points and rebounds and overall number in salaries, no need to waste any time with context, arguments and actual logic.

[slick_watts]

Here is the list of NBA salaries is the mostly career back up double single guy the 40th best player.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

what does his yearly salary even matter? if the thunder signed hartenstein to 4/72 (what the knicks offered), lets say, that would be a lower yearly salary but the contract would do far more harm to the thunder's cap sheet since they have extensions to worry about in 2026-27 and beyond. the higher yearly salary and shorter term is actually more desirable to the thunder specifically considering their long term constraints. there's little to no opportunity cost since hartenstein's deal can easily function as cap ballast if the thunder decide to go big-game hunting in the next two years.

obviously hartenstein at $30 million today is a worse value in a vacuum than other players, but the thunder do not exist in a vacuum, and the deal they signed hartenstein to works for them and that's all that really matters.

[slick_watts]

josh giddey was the obvious problem for the thunder in the playoffs but the less obvious one was what happened when chet holmgren was on the bench. i don't think some people realize how huge an upgrade isaiah hartenstein is over jaylin williams. and if the thunder can find some success with chet / hartenstein lineups on top of that, this is probably the best realistic use of their cap space they could have hoped for this summer. jonas valanciunas and andre drummond don't have the ball moving chops that the thunder were looking for. i call hartenstein "zubac with ball skills" and that's 100% what the thunder needed.

By Zubac with ball skills, do you mean he’s better than Zubac?


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i think it's close, and hartenstein is def. better for the thunder.

[Warriorfan]

Circumstances change and statistics lie. Here's the great news. The Thunder are going to go ahead and play a season in just a few short months. If your intellectual superiority proves true, you'll get to quote all of these posts and tell us how right you were. If not, I doubt anyone will ever bring it up again.

Here is the list of NBA salaries is the mostly career back up double single guy the 50th best player.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

It's irrelevant. What would OKC have done with the extra money? Their roster is stacked. They have exactly who they want. Sure, they could have saved money and gotten someone they want less, but what would be the point of that? I think Clay Bennet and co can spare enough to cover the difference and if Sam Presti believes the best asset they could add is Hartenstein, then I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I strongly encourage you to do the same.

Presti gets the benefit of a doubt in drafts and trades but in roster building has not had a champion despite HOF MVP talent fact until proven otherwise.

Just read front loaded and UNG 3rd year possibly

[Slimjimzv]

Here is the list of NBA salaries is the mostly career back up double single guy the 50th best player.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

It's irrelevant. What would OKC have done with the extra money? Their roster is stacked. They have exactly who they want. Sure, they could have saved money and gotten someone they want less, but what would be the point of that? I think Clay Bennet and co can spare enough to cover the difference and if Sam Presti believes the best asset they could add is Hartenstein, then I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I strongly encourage you to do the same.

Presti gets the benefit of a doubt in drafts and trades but in roster building has not had a champion despite HOF MVP talent fact until proven otherwise.

Like I said. Some people can't be reasoned with. Enjoy your opinion, my friend, because not many other people seem to.

[Warriorfan]

It's irrelevant. What would OKC have done with the extra money? Their roster is stacked. They have exactly who they want. Sure, they could have saved money and gotten someone they want less, but what would be the point of that? I think Clay Bennet and co can spare enough to cover the difference and if Sam Presti believes the best asset they could add is Hartenstein, then I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I strongly encourage you to do the same.

Presti gets the benefit of a doubt in drafts and trades but in roster building has not had a champion despite HOF MVP talent fact until proven otherwise.

Like I said. Some people can't be reasoned with. Enjoy your opinion, my friend, because not many other people seem to.

Almost every post had data instead of opinion.
Can you cite an opposing one that incorporates a logical argument

More stats against signing

https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

[sikma42]

josh giddey was the obvious problem for the thunder in the playoffs but the less obvious one was what happened when chet holmgren was on the bench. i don't think some people realize how huge an upgrade isaiah hartenstein is over jaylin williams. and if the thunder can find some success with chet / hartenstein lineups on top of that, this is probably the best realistic use of their cap space they could have hoped for this summer. jonas valanciunas and andre drummond don't have the ball moving chops that the thunder were looking for. i call hartenstein "zubac with ball skills" and that's 100% what the thunder needed.

By Zubac with ball skills, do you mean he’s better than Zubac?


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i think it's close, and hartenstein is def. better for the thunder.

Interesting, I’m excited to watch this fit. Haven’t watched a ton of him bc local games are always blacked out n don’t really like watching the Knicks.


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[Slimjimzv]

Presti gets the benefit of a doubt in drafts and trades but in roster building has not had a champion despite HOF MVP talent fact until proven otherwise.

Like I said. Some people can't be reasoned with. Enjoy your opinion, my friend, because not many other people seem to.

Almost every post had data instead of opinion.
Can you cite an opposing one that incorporates a logical argument

More stats against signing

https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

Yes, but I don't want to and I'm not going to. I will say that your argument against Presti being great at his job is childish at best. No, he hasn't been the GM of a team that won a title. But he was a part of the Spurs who did. And I don't recall him playing many minutes on these teams that, in your esteemed opinion, underperformed. By your logic, Jerry Sloan, Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, and countless others don't deserve to be called great because they didn't win a title. It's foolish. Presti has shown over and over again that he's brilliant.

[Warriorfan]

Here is the list of NBA salaries is the mostly career back up double single guy the 50th best player.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

It's irrelevant. What would OKC have done with the extra money? Their roster is stacked. They have exactly who they want. Sure, they could have saved money and gotten someone they want less, but what would be the point of that? I think Clay Bennet and co can spare enough to cover the difference and if Sam Presti believes the best asset they could add is Hartenstein, then I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I strongly encourage you to do the same.

You are arguying with a kid that sees the game as points and rebounds and overall number in salaries, no need to waste any time with context, arguments and actual logic.

Actually if you had better reading comprehension advanced data analysis used. Plus majority of posters say an overpay.

Like many posters we can use logic against me but none posted. But I continue

https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

[Slimjimzv]

It's irrelevant. What would OKC have done with the extra money? Their roster is stacked. They have exactly who they want. Sure, they could have saved money and gotten someone they want less, but what would be the point of that? I think Clay Bennet and co can spare enough to cover the difference and if Sam Presti believes the best asset they could add is Hartenstein, then I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I strongly encourage you to do the same.

You are arguying with a kid that sees the game as points and rebounds and overall number in salaries, no need to waste any time with context, arguments and actual logic.

Actually if you had better reading comprehension advanced data analysis used. Plus majority of posters say an overpay.

Like many posters we can use logic against me but none posted. But I continue

https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

Of course it's an overpay. You're amazingly arrogant and stubborn. I encourage you to go back and read the logic I've posted. It's there. You're just too willfully blind to see it.