[Woj] Free agent C Isaiah Hartenstein has agreed on a three-year, $87 million deal with the Oklahoma City Thunder

[Warriorfan]

Like I said. Some people can't be reasoned with. Enjoy your opinion, my friend, because not many other people seem to.

Almost every post had data instead of opinion.
Can you cite an opposing one that incorporates a logical argument

More stats against signing

https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

Yes, but I don't want to and I'm not going to. I will say that your argument against Presti being great at his job is childish at best. No, he hasn't been the GM of a team that won a title. But he was a part of the Spurs who did. And I don't recall him playing many minutes on these teams that, in your esteemed opinion, underperformed. By your logic, Jerry Sloan, Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, and countless others don't deserve to be called great because they didn't win a title. It's foolish. Presti has shown over and over again that he's brilliant.

Work on reading comprehension quote is benefit of doubt in trade not great and statement of fact is no titles despite multiple concurrent MVP talent and HOF players.

Brilliant is your subjective opinion not grounded in logic. You seem to believe what you post is logical because it comes from yourself but you post little facts here as a counter.

[Slimjimzv]

Almost every post had data instead of opinion.
Can you cite an opposing one that incorporates a logical argument

More stats against signing

https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

Yes, but I don't want to and I'm not going to. I will say that your argument against Presti being great at his job is childish at best. No, he hasn't been the GM of a team that won a title. But he was a part of the Spurs who did. And I don't recall him playing many minutes on these teams that, in your esteemed opinion, underperformed. By your logic, Jerry Sloan, Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, and countless others don't deserve to be called great because they didn't win a title. It's foolish. Presti has shown over and over again that he's brilliant.

Work on reading comprehension quote is benefit of doubt in trade not great and statement of fact is no titles despite multiple concurrent MVP talent and HOF players.

Brilliant is your subjective opinion not grounded in logic. You seem to believe what you post is logical because it comes from yourself but you post little facts here as a counter.

Do me a favor and Google 'facts' then Google 'logic'. Also, go away.

[Revived]

Side note, that KD trade looks better and better for the Nets , so far it brought 11 unprotected first round picks and 4 seconds and we still have CamJ to sell

I don’t think CamJ will get much in a trade, most Nets fans don’t even seem to like him and think he’s overpaid and injury prone (which he is).

But yeah the KD trade is awful for us, I hated it when it happened. Hopefully we can ship him out this season to Houston and recoup some losses and maybe get Sengun back to pair with Booker.

3 years left with total 68M salary isn’t overpaid by todays standards, I’ll say he is on moderate contract , he might bring another 1 FRP maybe couple seconds , but he is certainly not negative contract

Definitely not a first rd pick but maybe few second rd picks like what Jae Crowder got yeah.

Read on Twitter

You guys really got screwed by the Kyrie trade. Sold way too low on him. I wish Suns traded for him instead as we could’ve got him for cheap.

[Warriorfan]

Yes, but I don't want to and I'm not going to. I will say that your argument against Presti being great at his job is childish at best. No, he hasn't been the GM of a team that won a title. But he was a part of the Spurs who did. And I don't recall him playing many minutes on these teams that, in your esteemed opinion, underperformed. By your logic, Jerry Sloan, Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, and countless others don't deserve to be called great because they didn't win a title. It's foolish. Presti has shown over and over again that he's brilliant.

Work on reading comprehension quote is benefit of doubt in trade not great and statement of fact is no titles despite multiple concurrent MVP talent and HOF players.

Brilliant is your subjective opinion not grounded in logic. You seem to believe what you post is logical because it comes from yourself but you post little facts here as a counter.

Do me a favor and Google 'facts' then Google 'logic'. Also, go away.

OKC not winning a championship is fact.
Brilliance is a subjective term.

Does it follow a system of logic that one is brilliant if they have not won a championship in a competitive sport

Is it logical to assume that a player from another system will fit or subjective conjecture.

Is it logical to pay more to a player who had performed less than others in some metrics.

https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

[ArksNetsSince99]

I don’t think CamJ will get much in a trade, most Nets fans don’t even seem to like him and think he’s overpaid and injury prone (which he is).

But yeah the KD trade is awful for us, I hated it when it happened. Hopefully we can ship him out this season to Houston and recoup some losses and maybe get Sengun back to pair with Booker.

3 years left with total 68M salary isn’t overpaid by todays standards, I’ll say he is on moderate contract , he might bring another 1 FRP maybe couple seconds , but he is certainly not negative contract

Definitely not a first rd pick but maybe few second rd picks like what Jae Crowder got yeah.

Read on Twitter

You guys really got screwed by the Kyrie trade. Sold way too low on him. I wish Suns traded for him instead as we could’ve got him for cheap.

Yes in hindsight we got very little for Kyrie , but …Kyrie signed with the Nets as a free agent so it was kind of a wash , second Kyrie stock was all time low when this trade happened

Yes , I agree with you if you traded for Kyrie instead of KD , Suns will be in a great position right now , you would of most probably kept Mikal then along with all your picks , and prob trade Mikal to the Knicks on similiar deal Nets did , plus Kyrie is a model citizen so far ( his issues was always off court)

Ps , even if CamJ goes for couple of seconds I’m fine with this , he is a competitor, he cares , I would like to see him join one of the West contenders or Philly

[doogie_hauser]

He is looking like he is worth every dollar OKC are paying him.

Definitely is the last/missing piece to their contention puzzle.

He had Alpie's measure tonight in a very influential performance that had a major outcome on the game.

OKC's owners Definitely putting their money where their mouth is when it comes to wanting to bring a chip to Oklahoma City.

[MMyhre]

He is looking like he is worth every dollar OKC are paying him.

Definitely is the last/missing piece to their contention puzzle.

He had Alpie's measure tonight in a very influential performance that had a major outcome on the game.

OKC's owners Definitely putting their money where their mouth is when it comes to wanting to bring a chip to Oklahoma City.

If they win the Cup without Chet as well... It`s so perfect, Hartenstein takes the bumps and the rebound battles, Chet does the helpside defense/coverage with his length and mobility and their perimeter defense is cracked. This is a championship team if they stay healthy, just Chet not being able to eat enough food hindering it so far lol.

[Iwasawitness]

Work on reading comprehension quote is benefit of doubt in trade not great and statement of fact is no titles despite multiple concurrent MVP talent and HOF players.

Brilliant is your subjective opinion not grounded in logic. You seem to believe what you post is logical because it comes from yourself but you post little facts here as a counter.

Do me a favor and Google 'facts' then Google 'logic'. Also, go away.

OKC not winning a championship is fact.
Brilliance is a subjective term.

Does it follow a system of logic that one is brilliant if they have not won a championship in a competitive sport

Is it logical to assume that a player from another system will fit or subjective conjecture.

Is it logical to pay more to a player who had performed less than others in some metrics.

https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

I have no dog in this fight but claiming someone isn’t great at their job as a GM because they haven’t won a title yet is a ridiculous thing to say.

[Iwasawitness]

seems like a lot of money for him no?

This is a steal if anything.

$30M/yr is a steal for Hartenstein?

Valaciunas just got paid $10M/yr. Hartenstein is not $20M/yr better than JV.

Glad to see I was ultimately right. The guy was a huge steal.

[Onlytimewilltel]

Almost every post had data instead of opinion.
Can you cite an opposing one that incorporates a logical argument

More stats against signing

https://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c

Yes, but I don't want to and I'm not going to. I will say that your argument against Presti being great at his job is childish at best. No, he hasn't been the GM of a team that won a title. But he was a part of the Spurs who did. And I don't recall him playing many minutes on these teams that, in your esteemed opinion, underperformed. By your logic, Jerry Sloan, Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, and countless others don't deserve to be called great because they didn't win a title. It's foolish. Presti has shown over and over again that he's brilliant.

Work on reading comprehension quote is benefit of doubt in trade not great and statement of fact is no titles despite multiple concurrent MVP talent and HOF players.

Brilliant is your subjective opinion not grounded in logic. You seem to believe what you post is logical because it comes from yourself but you post little facts here as a counter.

That sentence hurts to read

Anyways, why little Chihuahua so quiet now? You no more bark about bad move intelligent stats facts ?

[Capn'O]

Dang

I reiterate; dang.

[Capn'O]

Can't remember the last time the almost universal consensus on a trade was flipped on its head 6 months later (although I believe Knicks fans are having buyers remorse over Mikal Bridges)

Responding to this in a different thread as it's more on topic here.

A lot of Knicks fans are having buyers remorse but I think it's misguided. Especially recently, Mikal has been having about as good of a year as you could expect as a 3rd option now that his shot is starting to fall and he's settling in defensively. That said, I think it was a slight overpay, as I did at the time.

The bigger problem the Knicks are overcoming is losing Hartenstein and not having Mitch. I think a lot of people looked at the numbers and think of these guys as replaceable but their impact was much greater than that. By WS/48 those were the Knicks 1st and 3rd most impactful players and the backbone of their defense. By BPM that would be their 2nd and 7th best players. These just gone without replacement. While another scheme might better utilize Towns and their two defensive wings, dropping all of the rim protection from a Thibs team is going to have a serious impact.

Bridges has been a scapegoat thus far, and at points some of the ire towards him has been justified, but we need a rim protector.

[slick_watts]

hartenstein was obviously an excellent fit for okc and anyone who was overlooking the nuance of okc's cap situation (and, why they 'overpaid') was just trolling imo.

[Patches Perry]

He has worked out better than I hoped or imagined. It's possible he is a better fit than Chet even. He rebounds better, sets better screens and passes better than Chet, while operating more out of that high post area which Chet doesn't do as much (wonders out to the perimeter more).

Chet is a better shot creator, rim protecter and 3pt shooter though. Luckily OKC has both. My next reservation is whether OKC will lose some of its perimeter punch if they play both at the same time. The small lineups work for OKC because NBA 4's aren't the Karl Malone or Amare Stoudemire power forwards of the past and are basically perimeter players now, so playing a guy like Jalen Williams or Dort on them is just fine.

If I'm Daigs, I'm keeping one of Chet/Hart on the court at all times. Split 24/24, then they can share the court for some minutes. Of course this is all matchup dependant as well.

[Capn'O]

He has worked out better than I hoped or imagined. It's possible he is a better fit than Chet even. He rebounds better, sets better screens and passes better than Chet, while operating more out of that high post area which Chet doesn't do as much (wonders out to the perimeter more).

Chet is a better shot creator, rim protecter and 3pt shooter though. Luckily OKC has both. My next reservation is whether OKC will lose some of its perimeter punch if they play both at the same time. The small lineups work for OKC because NBA 4's aren't the Karl Malone or Amare Stoudemire power forwards of the past and are basically perimeter players now, so playing a guy like Jalen Williams or Dort on them is just fine.

If I'm Daigs, I'm keeping one of Chet/Hart on the court at all times. Split 24/24, then they can share the court for some minutes. Of course this is all matchup dependant as well.

I think he'll play both in stretches. The league has gone bigger, both guys can guard inside out, and iHart's passing adds offensive value. You will have a lot of different looks. Scary team.

[Bologna Smasher]

The crazy thing with Hartenstein is that people knew he was going under the radar for years. Many teams could've had him and had the chance to lock him up for a long time for a lot less than what the Thunder paid. He was showing what he could do back when he was with the Nuggets and Cavaliers. I don't know why it took so long for a team to give him a legit opportunity.

[BigGargamel]

The crazy thing with Hartenstein is that people knew he was going under the radar for years. Many teams could've had him and had the chance to lock him up for a long time for a lot less than what the Thunder paid. He was showing what he could do back when he was with the Nuggets and Cavaliers. I don't know why it took so long for a team to give him a legit opportunity.

I'm telling you guys. Hartenstein was always talented but he had no idea how to play basketball when he was with Denver. I don't know what you guys are referencing, but I saw every minute he played that year. Other than the occasional rebound or hustle play, he was overmatched on the court. Something was unlocked when he went to Cleveland, but Denver was not the place for him.

[Chuck Everett]

He has worked out better than I hoped or imagined. It's possible he is a better fit than Chet even. He rebounds better, sets better screens and passes better than Chet, while operating more out of that high post area which Chet doesn't do as much (wonders out to the perimeter more).

Chet is a better shot creator, rim protecter and 3pt shooter though. Luckily OKC has both. My next reservation is whether OKC will lose some of its perimeter punch if they play both at the same time. The small lineups work for OKC because NBA 4's aren't the Karl Malone or Amare Stoudemire power forwards of the past and are basically perimeter players now, so playing a guy like Jalen Williams or Dort on them is just fine.

If I'm Daigs, I'm keeping one of Chet/Hart on the court at all times. Split 24/24, then they can share the court for some minutes. Of course this is all matchup dependant as well.

I think he'll play both in stretches. The league has gone bigger, both guys can guard inside out, and iHart's passing adds offensive value. You will have a lot of different looks. Scary team.

OKC would be dumb not to try to Chet/Hartenstein together for stretches, just to see if it works. There is value in being able to completely wall off the paint and force your opponents to beat you from the perimeter. For all we know, Chet might be a dominator at the 4 spot against smaller wings.

Edited to add: The fact that the Thunder could play those 2 together and then rotate SGA, JDub, Dort, Caruso, Wallace, Joe and Wiggins is laughably unfair. To me, Cason Wallace is probably the guy who will be moved. Mitchell and Topic might just make him expendable like he made Tre Mann expendable.

[Capn'O]

He has worked out better than I hoped or imagined. It's possible he is a better fit than Chet even. He rebounds better, sets better screens and passes better than Chet, while operating more out of that high post area which Chet doesn't do as much (wonders out to the perimeter more).

Chet is a better shot creator, rim protecter and 3pt shooter though. Luckily OKC has both. My next reservation is whether OKC will lose some of its perimeter punch if they play both at the same time. The small lineups work for OKC because NBA 4's aren't the Karl Malone or Amare Stoudemire power forwards of the past and are basically perimeter players now, so playing a guy like Jalen Williams or Dort on them is just fine.

If I'm Daigs, I'm keeping one of Chet/Hart on the court at all times. Split 24/24, then they can share the court for some minutes. Of course this is all matchup dependant as well.

I think he'll play both in stretches. The league has gone bigger, both guys can guard inside out, and iHart's passing adds offensive value. You will have a lot of different looks. Scary team.

OKC would be dumb not to try to Chet/Hartenstein together for stretches, just to see if it works. There is value in being able to completely wall off the paint and force your opponents to beat you from the perimeter. For all we know, Chet might be a dominator at the 4 spot against smaller wings.

Edited to add: The fact that the Thunder could play those 2 together and then rotate SGA, JDub, Dort, Caruso, Wallace, Joe and Wiggins is laughably unfair. To me, Cason Wallace is probably the guy who will be moved. Mitchell and Topic might just make him expendable like he made Tre Mann expendable.

I'd take Wallace.

[Iwasawitness]

He has worked out better than I hoped or imagined. It's possible he is a better fit than Chet even. He rebounds better, sets better screens and passes better than Chet, while operating more out of that high post area which Chet doesn't do as much (wonders out to the perimeter more).

Chet is a better shot creator, rim protecter and 3pt shooter though. Luckily OKC has both. My next reservation is whether OKC will lose some of its perimeter punch if they play both at the same time. The small lineups work for OKC because NBA 4's aren't the Karl Malone or Amare Stoudemire power forwards of the past and are basically perimeter players now, so playing a guy like Jalen Williams or Dort on them is just fine.

If I'm Daigs, I'm keeping one of Chet/Hart on the court at all times. Split 24/24, then they can share the court for some minutes. Of course this is all matchup dependant as well.

I think he'll play both in stretches. The league has gone bigger, both guys can guard inside out, and iHart's passing adds offensive value. You will have a lot of different looks. Scary team.

OKC would be dumb not to try to Chet/Hartenstein together for stretches, just to see if it works. There is value in being able to completely wall off the paint and force your opponents to beat you from the perimeter. For all we know, Chet might be a dominator at the 4 spot against smaller wings.

Edited to add: The fact that the Thunder could play those 2 together and then rotate SGA, JDub, Dort, Caruso, Wallace, Joe and Wiggins is laughably unfair. To me, Cason Wallace is probably the guy who will be moved. Mitchell and Topic might just make him expendable like he made Tre Mann expendable.

Oh OKC should for sure play Chet at the four a lot going forward once he's back. Chet/Hart is an insane frontcourt duo.