Who do we get as a reserve PG?

[jpatrick]

Minott is still so raw. I think he eventually becomes a useful NBA player, but I think it’s more the Jerami Grant route, meaning it happens on his second or third team. He’s ultra athletic but doesn’t look like he really knows what he’s doing to play winning basketball. He also has so much skill development left in terms of shooting, dribbling, etc.

I was pretty disappointed in Miller in the G-League last year. During summer league, I thought he looked like a guy that knew how to play and although not a Minott-like athlete, had skills and would play hard. During the g-league games I saw, he definitely didn’t play hard. And his impact was mediocre. I get that league has a lot of guys out for themselves but still. I still see a Bobby Portis like role for him in a couple years but I doubt he’s a regular rotation guy, even by the end of the year.

As far as releasing these guys? What. These are the type of guys you want in those 12-15 roster spots. Might be able to step in for a game or two and have upside to get better.

As far as a third PG. it’s JMac. It always was JMac. It will always be him. He can steady things for a few games if needed. If Dilly busts hard, we can look for someone at the deadline. You’re not going to bring in a quality vet when no minutes are available, as we clearly plan to play the #8 pick.

[thinktank]

You could bring in an older college player like Gillespie, however.

[winforlose]

Minott is still so raw. I think he eventually becomes a useful NBA player, but I think it’s more the Jerami Grant route, meaning it happens on his second or third team. He’s ultra athletic but doesn’t look like he really knows what he’s doing to play winning basketball. He also has so much skill development left in terms of shooting, dribbling, etc.

I was pretty disappointed in Miller in the G-League last year. During summer league, I thought he looked like a guy that knew how to play and although not a Minott-like athlete, had skills and would play hard. During the g-league games I saw, he definitely didn’t play hard. And his impact was mediocre. I get that league has a lot of guys out for themselves but still. I still see a Bobby Portis like role for him in a couple years but I doubt he’s a regular rotation guy, even by the end of the year.

As far as releasing these guys? What. These are the type of guys you want in those 12-15 roster spots. Might be able to step in for a game or two and have upside to get better.

As far as a third PG. it’s JMac. It always was JMac. It will always be him. He can steady things for a few games if needed. If Dilly busts hard, we can look for someone at the deadline. You’re not going to bring in a quality vet when no minutes are available, as we clearly plan to play the #8 pick.

The problem isn’t that you’re looking for 12-15 guys. The problem is that outside of your top 7 your 8-11 are unproven. RD, TSJ, Minott, and Miller are all question marks. Summer league will help us see their game on an individual level, but you won’t see their team game until preseason at the earliest. So when you approach the final 3 roster spots you are not signing 12-14 players. You are signing guys who might need to function as 8-10. JMAC is a guy I never loved, heck when his shot didn’t fall I thought he was a 3rd string at best. But he can function as a 9th man in a pinch. Beasley could be 8th man, (The bucks had him as a starter last season.) Garza and Dozier were signed as 13-14 and that is what some of us dislike. Ingles is someone who could at least function in that 8-10 role.

[minimus]

Don't panic. NAW/Dozier can function as 3rd string PG. For better or worse MIN destiny is now in Edwards and Dillys hands.

[jpatrick]

Minott is still so raw. I think he eventually becomes a useful NBA player, but I think it’s more the Jerami Grant route, meaning it happens on his second or third team. He’s ultra athletic but doesn’t look like he really knows what he’s doing to play winning basketball. He also has so much skill development left in terms of shooting, dribbling, etc.

I was pretty disappointed in Miller in the G-League last year. During summer league, I thought he looked like a guy that knew how to play and although not a Minott-like athlete, had skills and would play hard. During the g-league games I saw, he definitely didn’t play hard. And his impact was mediocre. I get that league has a lot of guys out for themselves but still. I still see a Bobby Portis like role for him in a couple years but I doubt he’s a regular rotation guy, even by the end of the year.

As far as releasing these guys? What. These are the type of guys you want in those 12-15 roster spots. Might be able to step in for a game or two and have upside to get better.

As far as a third PG. it’s JMac. It always was JMac. It will always be him. He can steady things for a few games if needed. If Dilly busts hard, we can look for someone at the deadline. You’re not going to bring in a quality vet when no minutes are available, as we clearly plan to play the #8 pick.

The problem isn’t that you’re looking for 12-15 guys. The problem is that outside of your top 7 your 8-11 are unproven. RD, TSJ, Minott, and Miller are all question marks. Summer league will help us see their game on an individual level, but you won’t see their team game until preseason at the earliest. So when you approach the final 3 roster spots you are not signing 12-14 players. You are signing guys who might need to function as 8-10. JMAC is a guy I never loved, heck when his shot didn’t fall I thought he was a 3rd string at best. But he can function as a 9th man in a pinch. Beasley could be 8th man, (The bucks had him as a starter last season.) Garza and Dozier were signed as 13-14 and that is what some of us dislike. Ingles is someone who could at least function in that 8-10 role.

I mean, you’re right. Once we took on Gobert without moving KAT, we were always going to be paper thin (the new CBA didn’t help). That’s why we’ll probably need to move KAT, McDaniels, or Gobert in the next 12 months. We’re thin now and will likely lose NAW/Naz next offseason if we don’t. Those that say just pay the tax to keep everyone are not being realistic.

I’m sure if a Beasley-like guy was out there for the minimum, we’d have signed him. And if they become available, we can always cut Dozier and sign them. Beasley himself, I highly doubt he’ll sign for the min again, and if he did, it wouldn’t be for a guy that traded him away, twice.

[winforlose]

Minott is still so raw. I think he eventually becomes a useful NBA player, but I think it’s more the Jerami Grant route, meaning it happens on his second or third team. He’s ultra athletic but doesn’t look like he really knows what he’s doing to play winning basketball. He also has so much skill development left in terms of shooting, dribbling, etc.

I was pretty disappointed in Miller in the G-League last year. During summer league, I thought he looked like a guy that knew how to play and although not a Minott-like athlete, had skills and would play hard. During the g-league games I saw, he definitely didn’t play hard. And his impact was mediocre. I get that league has a lot of guys out for themselves but still. I still see a Bobby Portis like role for him in a couple years but I doubt he’s a regular rotation guy, even by the end of the year.

As far as releasing these guys? What. These are the type of guys you want in those 12-15 roster spots. Might be able to step in for a game or two and have upside to get better.

As far as a third PG. it’s JMac. It always was JMac. It will always be him. He can steady things for a few games if needed. If Dilly busts hard, we can look for someone at the deadline. You’re not going to bring in a quality vet when no minutes are available, as we clearly plan to play the #8 pick.

The problem isn’t that you’re looking for 12-15 guys. The problem is that outside of your top 7 your 8-11 are unproven. RD, TSJ, Minott, and Miller are all question marks. Summer league will help us see their game on an individual level, but you won’t see their team game until preseason at the earliest. So when you approach the final 3 roster spots you are not signing 12-14 players. You are signing guys who might need to function as 8-10. JMAC is a guy I never loved, heck when his shot didn’t fall I thought he was a 3rd string at best. But he can function as a 9th man in a pinch. Beasley could be 8th man, (The bucks had him as a starter last season.) Garza and Dozier were signed as 13-14 and that is what some of us dislike. Ingles is someone who could at least function in that 8-10 role.

I mean, you’re right. Once we took on Gobert without moving KAT, we were always going to be paper thin (the new CBA didn’t help). That’s why we’ll probably need to move KAT, McDaniels, or Gobert in the next 12 months. We’re thin now and will likely lose NAW/Naz next offseason if we don’t. Those that say just pay the tax to keep everyone are not being realistic.

I’m sure if a Beasley-like guy was out there for the minimum, we’d have signed him. And if they become available, we can always cut Dozier and sign them. Beasley himself, I highly doubt he’ll sign for the min again, and if he did, it wouldn’t be for a guy that traded him away, twice.

Your first paragraph is half true. We are paper thin at a PG, but not anywhere else except maybe SF. I think KAT is the best backup 5 you can ask. Naz is the best backup PF you can ask for. NAW is not the best backup SG in the league, but his contract is the BEST for a player of his level. I love our top 7 very much. It is a championship quality unit. I will not say otherwise until I have a damn good reason to. JMAC would have added solid depth to our PG, as would Beverly and others. Worrying that former Wolves might not want to play under TC or hold grudges against us is valid. But, the prospect of playing for a contender, and the reality that spots are filling up, and options are running out are powerful motivators. I simply we think we could have done better in free agency, perhaps a lot better.

Edit to clarify: I took out some stuff above because it was clear enough. I do think Miller can give us some minutes this season. I do HOPE TSJ at his age is NBA ready for some minutes. I do expect to see Ingles play some as needed. NAW can backup the SF as well or Ant can shift up and NAW can cover the SG. Spots 8 and 9 plus guys who can step in when the inevitable injury occurs are all that we are talking about.

[TimberKat]

Don't panic. NAW/Dozier can function as 3rd string PG. For better or worse MIN destiny is now in Edwards and Dillys hands.

Another way of looking at this: Our starting PG/facilitator is better fit to be a backup due to age. The rookie we drafted and NAW/Dozier are better serve as 3rd option next year. Also won't mind drop Minott for JMac at this point.

[Shaka_Zulu]

Don't panic. NAW/Dozier can function as 3rd string PG. For better or worse MIN destiny is now in Edwards and Dillys hands.

I have no trust in either ball handling and playmaking for that role.


But everything will be solved if Dillingham turns into a Tyrese Maxey lol


But Winforlose is correct in that we are gambling quite a bit with our depth and rotation options so far. 8-10 level FA signings should been better more ready minimum vets if we are gonna gamble on young raw players for half of the roster.


Like I only seen highlights of Dillingham and Shannon jr, but their upside and talent seems intriguing enough to have sound expectations for NBA rotation minutes.


But I have no trust at all in Garza, Dozier or Minott (last one cant shoot, dribble or defend, just high energy high flyer).

I been hopeful and positive with my expectations on Miller, but he is still very raw, so he needs to get going quick and show he is NBA ready. Kyle Anderson and 3rd PG minutes will need to he filled competently.



I assume Ingles will barely play, and be there mainly as mentor like 2nd stint Rubio was.

[Klomp]

We already had a PJ Dozier type player with Jaylen Clarke on a 2 way contract.

I don't see the similarity. Even so, why is more than one of something a bad thing?

Defense minded poor shooting 6'5 wings.
Roster balance. See thread title.

I just think we are too overstocked at wing now which may cause depth issues at PG.
Little thin at PF too if Miller isn't ready for meaningful minutes.

But TC may surprise me yet.

For the record, Dozier has a full 1.25 inches on Clark (a year later still no e at the end ) in height.

[minimus]

There is always a risk that one of your key players goes down. But let me ask this way: who was backup PG and 3rd string PG for DAL? Yes, DAL have basically two completely different PGs in Doncic and Kyrie, but they have no contingency plan. Also I would compare not PG depth, but how many competent decision makers and ballhandlers do we have. In reality MIN have two elite ballhandlers in Edwards and Conley. And MIN have added another one ballhander in Dillingham, AND one decision maker in Ingles. IMO there is no reason to panic about 3rd string PG.

P.S. I completely forgot that both NAW and Edwards played in DAL series through injuries: Edwards landed hard, NAW hurted his shoulder. Both had shooting slumps against DAL. I guess both will be better next season, after playing for national teams.

[Klomp]

There is always a risk that one of your key players goes down. But let me ask this way: who was backup PG and 3rd string PG for DAL? Yes, DAL have basically two completely different PGs in Doncic and Kyrie, but they have no contingency plan. Also I would compare not PG depth, but how many competent decision makers and ballhandlers do we have. In reality MIN have two elite ballhandlers in Edwards and Conley. And MIN have added another one ballhander in Dillingham, AND one decision maker in Ingles. IMO there is no reason to panic about 3rd string PG.

P.S. I completely forgot that both NAW and Edwards played in DAL series through injuries: Edwards landed hard, NAW hurted his shoulder. Both had shooting slumps against DAL. I guess both will be better next season, after playing for national teams.

I continue to believe that PG depth and roster balance might be the two most overrated talking points on this board.

[winforlose]

There is always a risk that one of your key players goes down. But let me ask this way: who was backup PG and 3rd string PG for DAL? Yes, DAL have basically two completely different PGs in Doncic and Kyrie, but they have no contingency plan. Also I would compare not PG depth, but how many competent decision makers and ballhandlers do we have. In reality MIN have two elite ballhandlers in Edwards and Conley. And MIN have added another one ballhander in Dillingham, AND one decision maker in Ingles. IMO there is no reason to panic about 3rd string PG.

P.S. I completely forgot that both NAW and Edwards played in DAL series through injuries: Edwards landed hard, NAW hurted his shoulder. Both had shooting slumps against DAL. I guess both will be better next season, after playing for national teams.

I continue to believe that PG depth and roster balance might be the two most overrated talking points on this board.

Fair enough. My answer is to have you go back and look at the on/off numbers for Mike Conley from last season. Or hear Finch talk about how we blow leads in the fourth quarter because we take the ball out of Mike’s hand. Finch also explains repeatedly the value of JMAC is someone to run the offense.

[Klomp]

Fair enough. My answer is to have you go back and look at the on/off numbers for Mike Conley from last season. Or hear Finch talk about how we blow leads in the fourth quarter because we take the ball out of Mike’s hand. Finch also explains repeatedly the value of JMAC is someone to run the offense.

I think it's less about "Mike and Jordan are PGs" and more about decision-making. That's not a skill exclusive to the PG position.

I think Rob's passing gets a bad rap, because of his flashy style along with the fact that his averages don't look very impressive. But if you break college numbers down to a per-minute basis, Dillingham (.166) has a higher assist per minute average than Kyrie Irving (.155). Dillingham's turnover rate (.086) is also slightly lower than Irving's (.089).

Is Kyrie Irving a true PG?

[winforlose]

Fair enough. My answer is to have you go back and look at the on/off numbers for Mike Conley from last season. Or hear Finch talk about how we blow leads in the fourth quarter because we take the ball out of Mike’s hand. Finch also explains repeatedly the value of JMAC is someone to run the offense.

I think it's less about "Mike and Jordan are PGs" and more about decision-making. That's not a skill exclusive to the PG position.

I think Rob's passing gets a bad rap, because of his flashy style along with the fact that his averages don't look very impressive. But if you break college numbers down to a per-minute basis, Dillingham (.166) has a higher assist per minute average than Kyrie Irving (.155). Dillingham's turnover rate (.086) is also slightly lower than Irving's (.089).

Is Kyrie Irving a true PG?

Klomp, College basketball is not the NBA. For every one rookie who comes in and has a great year, how many don’t? For every Chet, how many rookies spend a whole season in the G? Can you really compare Kyrie’s NBA numbers to a college players numbers?

[Klomp]

Fair enough. My answer is to have you go back and look at the on/off numbers for Mike Conley from last season. Or hear Finch talk about how we blow leads in the fourth quarter because we take the ball out of Mike’s hand. Finch also explains repeatedly the value of JMAC is someone to run the offense.

I think it's less about "Mike and Jordan are PGs" and more about decision-making. That's not a skill exclusive to the PG position.

I think Rob's passing gets a bad rap, because of his flashy style along with the fact that his averages don't look very impressive. But if you break college numbers down to a per-minute basis, Dillingham (.166) has a higher assist per minute average than Kyrie Irving (.155). Dillingham's turnover rate (.086) is also slightly lower than Irving's (.089).

Is Kyrie Irving a true PG?

Klomp, College basketball is not the NBA. For every one rookie who comes in and has a great year, how many don’t? For every Chet, how many rookies spend a whole season in the G? Can you really compare Kyrie’s NBA numbers to a college players numbers?

1. How many rookies spend a whole year in the G?
Very few. Even fewer if they are drafted in the Top 8. I would guess even fewer than that if a team traded all the way up that high to target the guy.

2. Can you really compare Kyrie’s NBA numbers to a college players numbers?
I didn't. I compared Dillingham's freshman numbers at the University of Kentucky with Kyrie Irving's freshman numbers at Duke University.

[jpatrick]

Fair enough. My answer is to have you go back and look at the on/off numbers for Mike Conley from last season. Or hear Finch talk about how we blow leads in the fourth quarter because we take the ball out of Mike’s hand. Finch also explains repeatedly the value of JMAC is someone to run the offense.

I think it's less about "Mike and Jordan are PGs" and more about decision-making. That's not a skill exclusive to the PG position.

I think Rob's passing gets a bad rap, because of his flashy style along with the fact that his averages don't look very impressive. But if you break college numbers down to a per-minute basis, Dillingham (.166) has a higher assist per minute average than Kyrie Irving (.155). Dillingham's turnover rate (.086) is also slightly lower than Irving's (.089).

Is Kyrie Irving a true PG?

Kyrie also played a grand total of 11 college games. Watching about 10 Kentucky games since the draft, no, he’s not a true PG right now, in terms of the guy that sets up the offense, gets everyone organized, and makes offensive decisions. That was Sheppard, and Dilly rarely played without Sheppard. Weird guard rotation they had.

Dilly was a willing passer though who got in the lane at will. Ton of dump offs or kick outs for baskets. He has a learning curve, but he’ll only learn by playing. Might be dysfunctional at times, but Conley is a good teacher to have. I feel like he’ll be much better at running the second unit come playoff time than in game 1.

[KGdaBom]

I think it's less about "Mike and Jordan are PGs" and more about decision-making. That's not a skill exclusive to the PG position.

I think Rob's passing gets a bad rap, because of his flashy style along with the fact that his averages don't look very impressive. But if you break college numbers down to a per-minute basis, Dillingham (.166) has a higher assist per minute average than Kyrie Irving (.155). Dillingham's turnover rate (.086) is also slightly lower than Irving's (.089).

Is Kyrie Irving a true PG?

Klomp, College basketball is not the NBA. For every one rookie who comes in and has a great year, how many don’t? For every Chet, how many rookies spend a whole season in the G? Can you really compare Kyrie’s NBA numbers to a college players numbers?

1. How many rookies spend a whole year in the G?
Very few. Even fewer if they are drafted in the Top 8. I would guess even fewer than that if a team traded all the way up that high to target the guy.

2. Can you really compare Kyrie’s NBA numbers to a college players numbers?
I didn't. I compared Dillingham's freshman numbers at the University of Kentucky with Kyrie Irving's freshman numbers at Duke University.

I am making a hyperbolic statement here that I won't actually follow through on if I'm wrong.
If Dilly spends the entire season in the G League by the time Mid January rolls around I will stand naked on Hennepin avenue, mid January, offering free sexual favors.

[Klomp]

Watching about 10 Kentucky games since the draft, no, he’s not a true PG right now, in terms of the guy that sets up the offense, gets everyone organized, and makes offensive decisions. That was Sheppard, and Dilly rarely played without Sheppard. Weird guard rotation they had.

This is fair from a usage standpoint. But Conley often starts possessions off-ball too, does that mean he's not really a PG? Or is it simply a function of offenses and different play sets as opposed to a player's natural ability?

Dillingham: .166 assist per minute average; .086 turnover per minute average
Sheppard: .155 assist per minute average; .069 turnover per minute average

[winforlose]

Klomp, College basketball is not the NBA. For every one rookie who comes in and has a great year, how many don’t? For every Chet, how many rookies spend a whole season in the G? Can you really compare Kyrie’s NBA numbers to a college players numbers?

1. How many rookies spend a whole year in the G?
Very few. Even fewer if they are drafted in the Top 8. I would guess even fewer than that if a team traded all the way up that high to target the guy.

2. Can you really compare Kyrie’s NBA numbers to a college players numbers?
I didn't. I compared Dillingham's freshman numbers at the University of Kentucky with Kyrie Irving's freshman numbers at Duke University.

I am making a hyperbolic statement here that I won't actually follow through on if I'm wrong.
If Dilly spends the entire season in the G League by the time Mid January rolls around I will stand naked on Hennepin avenue, mid January, offering free sexual favors.

lol, of course he won’t. The thing is designed for him to play PG2. The thing is also designed without an alternative. In other words we pulled the life guard and threw in the deep end. We told him sink or swim bitc*, and now we wait.

Klomp, your point is well taken. Kyrie played 51 games for the Cleveland Cavaliers as the starting PG. He was the #1 pick and that team went 21-45. That is the perfect example of learning by playing. Of course the prior year the Cavs finished 15th in the East with 19 wins.

[thinktank]

Oh. My. God.

How did we not think of Ricky Rubio?

He’d be damn well perfect for 3rd PG!