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The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

Assuming this is the last major addition, are you more excited than you were last offseason?

Yes
29
64%
No
1
2%
About the same
15
33%
 
Total votes: 45

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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1121 » by Saberestar » Thu Jul 4, 2024 8:52 pm

Revived wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Revived wrote:
This is nothing new, we already know James Jones bends over backwards for Klutch.

Where is the problem? That's a great contract for the Suns and Oso.

I don’t know if you’ve been living under a rock but 2nd rd picks getting “substantial guarantees” is not common and this has been discussed ad nauseam by everyone around the world at this point because of the contract the Lakers gave LeBron’s son. My bestfriend that lives in UK told me Bronny’s contract was what they were discussing at a barbershop there when he went for a haircut yesterday.

So if you live anywhere in the US, you surely can’t avoid it even for people that don’t follow sports.

I don't care about LeBron...we are talking about Oso’s contract.

This contract is a supercheap contract with only two years fully guaranteed. Third year is partially guaranteed and 4th year is a team option.

Less than $8M for 4 years is nothing to talk about it and we will have his full Bird Rights to extend him if we want to do it.

It's a win-win. The FO is investing in rookies again and Summer League is gonna be FUN.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1122 » by TASTIC » Thu Jul 4, 2024 9:27 pm

People saying they want Crowder back - do you not remember how he was the most selfish SOB we've had on the team in recent memory!? Sitting out cos his teammate Cam Johnson got the starting nod over him??? He nearly de-railed the whole season and I think he'd be absolute last option in James Jones' eyes.

Covington is a lot older now but can still defend and play the 3-4 and 5 at a pinch, would be all for him.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1123 » by Mulhollanddrive » Thu Jul 4, 2024 9:40 pm

Beal, Booker, O'Neale, Durant, Nurkic
Morris, Allen, Okogie, Bol, Plumlee
Lee, Roddy, Dunn, Little, Ighodaro
Gillespie, Bridges

Gambo say we're working on Okogie coming back
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1124 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 4, 2024 11:13 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
He's already working on things man! :D
Read on Twitter


He's not missing much if any shots in this clip and his mechanics and form look pretty clean too! I keep telling people his shot is gonna improve. :wink:
These are literally highlights. They aren't showing misses because that would go against the point of HIGHlights.

You want to see uncut footage of shooting drills like this to really see where his shooting is. 5min of straight footage, no cuts, no highlights. Even then, all you would be seeing is improvement in the consistency of his shot which doesn't always translate to real world shooting success either.



Everything that you've said and shared here is of course fair and valid that highlights of course show highlights of a player's best moments. You're also right that a player's shooting might not translate to live in game/ high pressure situations. But again, there are a multitude of factors whether external/ internal or possibly even both that can ultimately swing outcomes either way.

So it's not like we're dealing in absolutes here for a young players outcome. You can choose to fall on either side of the spectrum of hope, faith, and optimism, or skepticism, disbelief, and pessimism. I care nothing for highlight videos aside from maybe OPbeing able to identify specific factors present that can contribute to a favorable outcome validating potential value/ impact (which Dunn already possesses defensively, even without offensive impact).

And for Dunn's concerns with shooting and IF he can actually improve or not, I'm looking at his mechanics form, shooting arch and/or consistent repetive shooting motions/ habits. As in if they're consistent and not constantly fluctuating or changing, then there's a solid foundation for improvement there. You've made your position on this quite clear, as I have mine too. We'll see how things play out soon enough, but I for my part choose to have strong beliefs taking all the contextual information available and what I've seen so far into account that he'll absolutely improve his shooting.

And of course you and others are free to believe whatever you choose in regards to Dunns shooting till proven otherwise. :D

I do think Dunns shooting form is better than someone who should be shooting 20/55 from 3 and FT so I'll give him that. Consistency is something that can be worked out with reps after reps after reps. So I'm not saying he can't improve, surely any 21 year old will and should be working to improve but whether it translate to actual in game improvement is another thing and I just don't think any of us should be looking at these highlights and think he's further along along his development than he really is.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1125 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 4, 2024 11:17 pm

BobbieL wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
garrick wrote:
I forgot the Clips were the #4 seed so I'm not sure if there's one team from the top 5 teams last season the loss of PG13 could drop them to the second tier of playoff teams next season.

The Suns could go as high as the 2nd round but more likely than not I don't think any of the free agent signings or rookies will significantly move the needle much so I expect the results to either be missing the playoffs in the playin or making it to the 1st round again and losing to one of the top 4 teams.

Fellas on the Timeline Pod put it pretty simply/bluntly, if you didn't believe in the Big 3 to begin with then it won't matter who we pick up


thats a pretty good point from the Timeline Pod - its all about those three

I do think - this team on paper is better than 12 months ago -- Morris, O'Neale and Plumlee are upgrades. Lee healthy should give at least what Gordon gave

But you are correct - if the big 3 play well - that is what is carrying the team

Exactly. How the Big 3 mesh, how they play, how their chemistry is and how far they take us is essentially 95% on them. Monte Morris, Mason Plumlee, Bol Bol, DLee, Ryan Dunn etc etc they will help but they won't ultimately won't be the piece that will make or break this team imo - it's still on the Big 3
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1126 » by Sunsdeuce » Thu Jul 4, 2024 11:17 pm

TASTIC wrote:People saying they want Crowder back - do you not remember how he was the most selfish SOB we've had on the team in recent memory!? Sitting out cos his teammate Cam Johnson got the starting nod over him??? He nearly de-railed the whole season and I think he'd be absolute last option in James Jones' eyes.

Covington is a lot older now but can still defend and play the 3-4 and 5 at a pinch, would be all for him.


No one knows the real story why he was away from the team. You are making an assumption. Monty created a lot of drama and put players in the dog house all the time and treated other players like teachers pets who didn’t deserve the playing time.

Point is, there was a lot of rumors that ran while during Monty’s tenture that Monty created and never defended his players. I personally have zero respect for Monty.
I am such a lucky NBA fan. 8647 My favorite team went from the most greedy and racist owner to the most ego driven dumbass owner in all of sports fdt.

Only a fan of Arizona teams!
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1127 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 4, 2024 11:25 pm

TASTIC wrote:People saying they want Crowder back - do you not remember how he was the most selfish SOB we've had on the team in recent memory!? Sitting out cos his teammate Cam Johnson got the starting nod over him??? He nearly de-railed the whole season and I think he'd be absolute last option in James Jones' eyes.

Covington is a lot older now but can still defend and play the 3-4 and 5 at a pinch, would be all for him.

You're right but we're also in a beggars can't be choosers 2nd apron jail situation imo. If a guy like Crowder is happy to comeback, I'd take him over a guy like Okogie (for the min). I acknowledge that he isn't the same as the guy who helped us get to the Finals but if he can find his shooting form again, he'll bring a 3&D guy who's a dawg that we could certainly use. I also think he could help the younger guys like Dunn find their niche as well
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1128 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jul 4, 2024 11:32 pm

Revived wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Revived wrote:
This is nothing new, we already know James Jones bends over backwards for Klutch.

Where is the problem? That's a great contract for the Suns and Oso.

I don’t know if you’ve been living under a rock but 2nd rd picks getting “substantial guarantees” is not common and this has been discussed ad nauseam by everyone around the world at this point because of the contract the Lakers gave LeBron’s son. My bestfriend that lives in UK told me Bronny’s contract was what they were discussing at a barbershop there when he went for a haircut yesterday.

So if you live anywhere in the US, you surely can’t avoid it even for people that don’t follow sports.


I'm glad we control him for 4 years IF we want. That is my worry with 2nd round picks. They may want a player option after 2 years, like FVV or some of those players who other teams gave balloon contracts the teams couldn't match.

We can let go of him after 2 years or keep him for 4. Completely up to us. I don't understand why a fan would care about how much he makes or whatever, particularly at this dollar amount. It has zero impact on anything outside of the tax bill.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1129 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 4, 2024 11:43 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


Thoughts??

I think that I'd much rather have Allen.off of the bench playing alongside of O'neale at the backup 3 and actually give that starting SF position to another vet option with more size at the 3 and better defense. Whilst also moving Allen to the bench to give our bench more shooting/ firepower and better quality depth. I like Covington, but would also be open to bringing back Jae Crowder too..

Who's left and available in free agency that'd best fit our needs at the 3?

If there is no other major additions (ie starting level guy), then I would rather have Allen off the bench and bring Royce in as the starter. I just think the bench could use someone with a little more offensive versatility that Grayson has as opposed to Royce who's entirely a 3&D guy. I also think Graysons ability as a secondary facilitator next to Monte also takes pressure of Monte as the sole playmaker.

When you have below average offensive players like Dunn, Oso, Okogie and guys who needs others to get them shots like DLe, Plumlee and Bol, it's not bad to have more playmaking around them.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1130 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jul 4, 2024 11:47 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Is Ighodaro going to get a main contract?

Read on Twitter

Interesting....felt like we did that with someone (high guarantees on a rookie deal) over the last few years as well but can't quite remember who. Just goes to show we're pretty high on Oso and treating him like a first round prospect. It also makes sense from a cap standpoint to lock in dudes on low salaries to guaranteed deals. That said, it could also back fire like with Roddy
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1131 » by BobbieL » Fri Jul 5, 2024 12:06 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
TASTIC wrote:People saying they want Crowder back - do you not remember how he was the most selfish SOB we've had on the team in recent memory!? Sitting out cos his teammate Cam Johnson got the starting nod over him??? He nearly de-railed the whole season and I think he'd be absolute last option in James Jones' eyes.

Covington is a lot older now but can still defend and play the 3-4 and 5 at a pinch, would be all for him.

You're right but we're also in a beggars can't be choosers 2nd apron jail situation imo. If a guy like Crowder is happy to comeback, I'd take him over a guy like Okogie (for the min). I acknowledge that he isn't the same as the guy who helped us get to the Finals but if he can find his shooting form again, he'll bring a 3&D guy who's a dawg that we could certainly use. I also think he could help the younger guys like Dunn find their niche as well


I like the idea of a guy like Crowder or Covington starting as that would push Allen or O'Neale to the bench to make that unit stronger. Not talking about a lot of minutes per game. Just giving more balance to the starters and bench.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1132 » by bigfoot » Fri Jul 5, 2024 12:13 am

RaisingArizona wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


What are we doing?! :crazy:

Shamet 2.0 contract. Signing someone long term who hasn't proved anything.


Ryan Dunn signed a 4 year , $12,998,353 contract with the Phoenix Suns, including $5,188,560 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $3,249,588. In 2024-25, Dunn will earn a base salary of $2,530,800, while carrying a cap hit of $2,530,800.

Hmmm ... guess you should complain about Dunn's contract too. Both these rookies are making less than the vet minimum and likely will be for the next four years, although I imagine neither the third or fourth years are guaranteed (I suspect both are team options). Dave Roddy is making more than both of them as well. Find something else to gripe about.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1133 » by RaisingArizona » Fri Jul 5, 2024 12:14 am

TASTIC wrote:People saying they want Crowder back - do you not remember how he was the most selfish SOB we've had on the team in recent memory!? Sitting out cos his teammate Cam Johnson got the starting nod over him??? He nearly de-railed the whole season and I think he'd be absolute last option in James Jones' eyes.

Covington is a lot older now but can still defend and play the 3-4 and 5 at a pinch, would be all for him.

I can't root for chowder. He's a toxic selfish clown imo
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1134 » by RaisingArizona » Fri Jul 5, 2024 12:16 am

bigfoot wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:
Sunsdeuce wrote:
What are we doing?! :crazy:

Shamet 2.0 contract. Signing someone long term who hasn't proved anything.


Ryan Dunn signed a 4 year , $12,998,353 contract with the Phoenix Suns, including $5,188,560 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $3,249,588. In 2024-25, Dunn will earn a base salary of $2,530,800, while carrying a cap hit of $2,530,800.

Hmmm ... guess you should complain about Dunn's contract too. Both these rookies are making less than the vet minimum and likely will be for the next four years, although I imagine neither the third or fourth years are guaranteed (I suspect both are team options). Dave Roddy is making more than both of them as well. Find something else to gripe about.


We shall revisit this in the future
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1135 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jul 5, 2024 2:17 am

enigmatics wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


Thoughts??

I think that I'd much rather have Allen.off of the bench playing alongside of O'neale at the backup 3 and actually give that starting SF position to another vet option with more size at the 3 and better defense. Whilst also moving Allen to the bench to give our bench more shooting/ firepower and better quality depth. I like Covington, but would also be open to bringing back Jae Crowder too..

Who's left and available in free agency that'd best fit our needs at the 3?


KD at the 4 is gonna continue to be a huge problem. Should have been a 3 to begin with, but they needed an Aaron Gordon type of player (in terms of skill sets) to make that happen.

Starting Grayson is just a greedy pipe dream because they don't consistently have the ball handling/movement to take advantage.


Great points man!
I completely agree and have looked at a few names of potential 4/5s that'd allow us to move KD to the 3. One or two from trades, and a couple really cheap vet min options. In a trade, I've looked at names like Marvin Bagley of the Wizards. But this would be my least favorite trade because it would require us to give up either Grayson Allen or Jusuf Nurkic in a trade to send out more than Bagleys' $12.5 million salary as a 2nd apron team.

Now we could do a Grayson Allen for Bagley/ Baldwin/ multiple 2nds or a lightly protected future first. But even then, the value still seems unbalanced in Washington's favor. And on top of that, the trade would be contingent on Bagley fully buying into playing at the 4 as a high motor rim running switchable weakside shotblocking role with occasional 3 point shooting in exchange for a starting role, and the opportunity to compete for a championship?

I've also considered Christian Wood for a versatile switchable two way 4/5. And that trade would be something like Little for Wood/ protected 2nd. Or maybe Little for Wood even swap?

Then I've also considered just signing one of Meyers Leonard, Kai Jones, or Pter Cornelie (former Nuggets 4/5 ). All would be vet minimums and could be cheap stopgap options that are contractually low risk. All three would also be relatively low risk as vet min players. And all three would bring unique attributes to the position:

- Meyers Leonard.
Size, girth at 7'0 260 lbs and floor spacing at 39% from three and 81% from the line. Kind of a bigger bulkier Bertrans with better physicality.
- Kai Jones.
Size, length elite vertical athleticism and mobility like a 6'11 two way wing. With elite defensive potential and versatility.
Pter Cornelie.
Great size at 6'11 and 225 lbs and great mobility, high motor and 3 point shooting ( 37% for career). ** Overseas prospect though that'd require a small buyout but offers significant versatility and has previous nba experience playing for the Nuggets awhile back. Strong rebounder too.

Any of these names would reasonably allow us to move KD to the SF role and (aside from the Bagley premise) would allow us to keep Nurkic and move Allen to the bench to add more scoring potency and depth. As well as giving us a bigger frontline too :D
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1136 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jul 5, 2024 2:30 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Is Ighodaro going to get a main contract?

Read on Twitter

Interesting....felt like we did that with someone (high guarantees on a rookie deal) over the last few years as well but can't quite remember who. Just goes to show we're pretty high on Oso and treating him like a first round prospect. It also makes sense from a cap standpoint to lock in dudes on low salaries to guaranteed deals. That said, it could also back fire like with Roddy


Osos' great!
I'm very excited to see him play and watch his development. And locking these players in is very much a positive for us in our situation too. Altogether pretty much everything you've already said man. :D
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1137 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jul 5, 2024 2:34 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


Thoughts??

I think that I'd much rather have Allen.off of the bench playing alongside of O'neale at the backup 3 and actually give that starting SF position to another vet option with more size at the 3 and better defense. Whilst also moving Allen to the bench to give our bench more shooting/ firepower and better quality depth. I like Covington, but would also be open to bringing back Jae Crowder too..

Who's left and available in free agency that'd best fit our needs at the 3?

If there is no other major additions (ie starting level guy), then I would rather have Allen off the bench and bring Royce in as the starter. I just think the bench could use someone with a little more offensive versatility that Grayson has as opposed to Royce who's entirely a 3&D guy. I also think Graysons ability as a secondary facilitator next to Monte also takes pressure of Monte as the sole playmaker.

When you have below average offensive players like Dunn, Oso, Okogie and guys who needs others to get them shots like DLe, Plumlee and Bol, it's not bad to have more playmaking around them.


Very true. Monte Morris was such an underrated get for us. I have to say that James Jones has done a very ood job so far this offseason and it appears we're heading in a much better direction as a result. I'll give him.his Rose's for a job well done so far. :nod:
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1138 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jul 5, 2024 2:44 am

Sunsdeuce wrote:
TASTIC wrote:People saying they want Crowder back - do you not remember how he was the most selfish SOB we've had on the team in recent memory!? Sitting out cos his teammate Cam Johnson got the starting nod over him??? He nearly de-railed the whole season and I think he'd be absolute last option in James Jones' eyes.

Covington is a lot older now but can still defend and play the 3-4 and 5 at a pinch, would be all for him.


No one knows the real story why he was away from the team. You are making an assumption. Monty created a lot of drama and put players in the dog house all the time and treated other players like teachers pets who didn’t deserve the playing time.

Point is, there was a lot of rumors that ran while during Monty’s tenture that Monty created and never defended his players. I personally have zero respect for Monty.


:clap:
Spot on assessment man. Sarver created an incredibly toxic situation, and Monty Williams only further exacerbated things with his rigid rotations and blatant favoritism of specific players and incredible passivity b level basically sitting on the sidelines near comatose with a IBS expression on his face but never really showing any intensity or fight for the players. A great man ( off the court) and salt of the earth human being, but on the court unfortunately a relatively mediocre, overrated coach that coasted heavily on Paul's abilities as an insulator for his coaching deficiencies. :-?
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1139 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Jul 5, 2024 3:03 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


Thoughts??

I think that I'd much rather have Allen.off of the bench playing alongside of O'neale at the backup 3 and actually give that starting SF position to another vet option with more size at the 3 and better defense. Whilst also moving Allen to the bench to give our bench more shooting/ firepower and better quality depth. I like Covington, but would also be open to bringing back Jae Crowder too..

Who's left and available in free agency that'd best fit our needs at the 3?

If there is no other major additions (ie starting level guy), then I would rather have Allen off the bench and bring Royce in as the starter. I just think the bench could use someone with a little more offensive versatility that Grayson has as opposed to Royce who's entirely a 3&D guy. I also think Graysons ability as a secondary facilitator next to Monte also takes pressure of Monte as the sole playmaker.

When you have below average offensive players like Dunn, Oso, Okogie and guys who needs others to get them shots like DLe, Plumlee and Bol, it's not bad to have more playmaking around them.


Very true. Monte Morris was such an underrated get for us. I have to say that James Jones has done a gery good job so far this offseason and it appears we're heading in a much better direction as a result. I'll give him.his Rose's for a job well done so far. :nod:

That said I thought we did pretty good last offseason as well. On paper guys like Eubanks, EG, Yuta, KBD all on minimums were great signings and most people applauded us on our offseason work. Obviously most of those guys didn't work out but to turn those minimums into a rotation guy like Royce has been pretty underrated/under publicised imo because most of them would've very likely walked for nothing and we would've had to start from scratch picking up vet min guys again.

I don't think we'll have the same luck turning vet mins into a rotation guy again so half of these guys have to hit. I'd say I was pretty high on our vet min signings last season so was understandably disappointed that basically none of them met expectations so I'm being more cautious this time around. However I do like these signings, they make sense, especially with the addition of a PG in Monte.
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Re: The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#1140 » by SlovenianDragon » Fri Jul 5, 2024 4:09 am

I think its fair to say I dont blame Ishbia for what hes done to this team... Hindsight is 20/20... He swung for the fences and struck out tho...

So at the same time I think its fair to criticize him for doubling down on his mistake and not trading KD...

If he just came to terms with his mistake and attempted to remedy the situation by trading KD we would be in a much better position... But he doubled down and its going to hamstring us for years to come...

We are running back pretty much the same team that almost missed the playoffs and got swept in the first round...All while trying to force ourselves to inhale massive amounts of copium and try to convince ourselves that guys like plumlee, morris, or our rookies are going to somehow change the direction this team is headed all while the rest of the west is getting better....
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