[Wojnarowski]: Wagner Extends In Orlando (5/$224M)

[tiderulz]

I disagree. 10 years ago teams were more willing to let good players test restricted free agency. After what we saw from Franz in the playoffs I’d want a little more data on him as a player before handing out $225m in cap space.

Recent young players who had no-brainer max extensions include Haliburton, Edwards, Maxey and Cunningham. Franz isn’t in that echelon for me.

What exactly have Cade done more than Franz to separate between the 2?

Cade is an elite playmaker, a very good shooter* and a decent defender. Eye-test wise he’s got the look of a superstar and I’d be comfy giving him the max.

I’m also not hating on Franz, I like him. I don’t understand the rush to give him a max.

* yes I know he shot 31% from deep this season, but he played on an almost historically bad team with one of the worst coaching jobs in league history and was blitzed at the second highest rate of any player in the league. All things considered I think he had an excellent year.

i can do that. Wagner 35% and 36% from 3 his first 2 years. tried changing his 3 pt shot just before the season. I have no fear his 3 pt shot will return.

[tiderulz]

Sounds reasonable given that outlook on Cade but that’s also projecting some future growth on him which Wagner would have as well.

But at least I understand it somewhat. Cade have an elite skill in your opinion which Wagner might not ( probably high end but not elite kind of evaluation)

Franz also plays defense which we didnt see much of from Cade.

[AaronB]

By EPM EW, Wagner is not only the best player from his draft class, he has been the best player in each and every season of his draft class. It really is not even very close. When the whole package is put together (offense and defense), Wagner is the best player.

I expected Wagner to get the max 6 months ago and said so on the Magic board. I thought Suggs was going to get 4/140 6 months ago, but being recognized as the 2nd best guard defensively in the NBA is probably going to drive up his price a little.

[Devilanche]

Sounds reasonable given that outlook on Cade but that’s also projecting some future growth on him which Wagner would have as well.

But at least I understand it somewhat. Cade have an elite skill in your opinion which Wagner might not ( probably high end but not elite kind of evaluation)

Franz also plays defense which we didnt see much of from Cade.

Admittedly I lean closer to Franz being more worthy of a max than Cade but he’s allowed to have a different opinion of wanting to see more before he will offer the max. Nothing wrong with that.

[JeffFosters]

Sounds reasonable given that outlook on Cade but that’s also projecting some future growth on him which Wagner would have as well.

But at least I understand it somewhat. Cade have an elite skill in your opinion which Wagner might not ( probably high end but not elite kind of evaluation)

Franz also plays defense which we didnt see much of from Cade.

Admittedly I lean closer to Franz being more worthy of a max than Cade but he’s allowed to have a different opinion of wanting to see more before he will offer the max. Nothing wrong with that.

I’m all for healthy debate. He made some decent points about Wagner and I concede there’s a solid argument for him being a better bet for the max than Cade.

What exactly have Cade done more than Franz to separate between the 2?

Cade is an elite playmaker, a very good shooter* and a decent defender. Eye-test wise he’s got the look of a superstar and I’d be comfy giving him the max.

I’m also not hating on Franz, I like him. I don’t understand the rush to give him a max.

* yes I know he shot 31% from deep this season, but he played on an almost historically bad team with one of the worst coaching jobs in league history and was blitzed at the second highest rate of any player in the league. All things considered I think he had an excellent year.

i can do that. Wagner 35% and 36% from 3 his first 2 years. tried changing his 3 pt shot just before the season. I have no fear his 3 pt shot will return.

He shot 31% from 3 in college. It’s possible that his first two seasons were outliers and his college shooting is what we can expect.

Again, I really like Franz and I’ve already stated I think his shot will be fine, I just don’t understand what benefit (if any) the magic get by doing this now. If Franz plays well this season you can still give him the max, if he has a disappointing season maybe you save some money.

[Nyce_1]

Franz 3pt%

Mich yr 1 - 31%
Mich yr 2 - 34%
Orl yr 1 - 35%
Orl yr 2 - 36%
Orl yr 3 - 28%

His 3pt % has improved every season since he came to America, but he had a sudden drop-off last year. Anyone who believes his shooting last season was the rule and not the exception, and he won't bounce back to his normal improvement rate is simply hating on him. There's no other explanation. If your favorite player had the same historical trend, folks would be singing a different tune.

[JeffFosters]

Franz 3pt%

Mich yr 1 - 31%
Mich yr 2 - 34%
Orl yr 1 - 35%
Orl yr 2 - 36%
Orl yr 3 - 28%

His 3pt % has improved every season since he came to America, but he had a sudden drop-off last year. Anyone who believes his shooting last season was the rule and not the exception, and he won't bounce back to his normal improvement rate is simply hating on him. There's no other explanation. If your favorite player had the same historical trend, folks would be singing a different tune.

Bad take. Being objective about a player and his value is far from hating. Thinking objective assessment of a player is hate actually betrays a subjective view of that player.

My point was Orlando could’ve waited to see how he goes before handing the max out and no one has suggested a single benefit they enjoy by doing it now.

[MotownMadness]

Hopefully he gets that 3 point % back in the mid 30s at least.

Franz is one of the best young players in the game and was always gonna get the max.

[tiderulz]

Sounds reasonable given that outlook on Cade but that’s also projecting some future growth on him which Wagner would have as well.

But at least I understand it somewhat. Cade have an elite skill in your opinion which Wagner might not ( probably high end but not elite kind of evaluation)

Franz also plays defense which we didnt see much of from Cade.

Admittedly I lean closer to Franz being more worthy of a max than Cade but he’s allowed to have a different opinion of wanting to see more before he will offer the max. Nothing wrong with that.

completely agree. the only thing i can think of, if the cap goes up next year his max would go up to. so they may be saving some money by doing it now

[tiderulz]

Franz also plays defense which we didnt see much of from Cade.

Admittedly I lean closer to Franz being more worthy of a max than Cade but he’s allowed to have a different opinion of wanting to see more before he will offer the max. Nothing wrong with that.

I’m all for healthy debate. He made some decent points about Wagner and I concede there’s a solid argument for him being a better bet for the max than Cade.

Cade is an elite playmaker, a very good shooter* and a decent defender. Eye-test wise he’s got the look of a superstar and I’d be comfy giving him the max.

I’m also not hating on Franz, I like him. I don’t understand the rush to give him a max.

* yes I know he shot 31% from deep this season, but he played on an almost historically bad team with one of the worst coaching jobs in league history and was blitzed at the second highest rate of any player in the league. All things considered I think he had an excellent year.

i can do that. Wagner 35% and 36% from 3 his first 2 years. tried changing his 3 pt shot just before the season. I have no fear his 3 pt shot will return.

He shot 31% from 3 in college. It’s possible that his first two seasons were outliers and his college shooting is what we can expect.

Again, I really like Franz and I’ve already stated I think his shot will be fine, I just don’t understand what benefit (if any) the magic get by doing this now. If Franz plays well this season you can still give him the max, if he has a disappointing season maybe you save some money.

he shot 31% his freshman year then 34% his 2nd year. as i said, maybe they were hedging the cap going up next year and his max being even higher. dunno