The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

[bullsaficianado]

Somehow some way the Bulls wind up with the worst part of that deal. Kings and Spurs got the better players. It's not like the Bulls have never made a bad trade before, lol.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Sabonis, Fox, Derozan all questionable from 3

[BobbieL]

Somehow some way the Bulls wind up with the worst part of that deal. Kings and Spurs got the better players. It's not like the Bulls have never made a bad trade before, lol.

Bulls got Duarte and a couple second round picks for DeRozan - who wasn't coming back

I think DeRozan makes the KIngs better
Barnes makes the SPurs better

Suns - not sure - but it all depends on how Bud get Booker and Beal to adapt and play well together

[starbosa10]

Don't think we'll be title contenders necessarily but I think under Bud we will see a decent improvement, just such a tough conference

[BobbieL]

Don't think we'll be title contenders necessarily but I think under Bud we will see a decent improvement, just such a tough conference

This is fair And this is where at the deadline, Ishbia needs to be honest with himself

If the Suns are the 8th seed but a half dozen games from the 6th seed - might be time to examine things

But I guess Budenholzer does deserve a chance to coach this roster. And on paper, the roster is better than 12 months ago

I truly hope Jones is looking for a better option than Okogie to round out the roster though. If that means nothing until October, so be it.

[Fo-Real]

If Luke Kennard is a minium guy, I take him all day over Okogie!!!

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://valleyofthesuns.com/posts/walker-kessler-should-be-top-offseason-trade-target-for-the-suns

Walker Kessler should be the Phoenix Suns' top offseason target if the Utah Jazz plan on trading him.

By Matt Escobar | 6:00 AM MST

Once the Phoenix Suns fill their last open roster spot with a free agent, they can turn their attention to the trade market. One potential target that immediately stands out is Walker Kessler, whom the Utah Jazz are reportedly considering trading.

Kessler will be entering just his third year, but he’s already one of the best rim protectors in the league. In his first two seasons, he’s averaged 2.4 blocks per game despite only playing 23 mpg. Also a tremendous finisher, Kessler has shot 69% from the floor during those two seasons.

That the Jazz would want to trade a young player like that is baffling, but then again, the way they used him last season was baffling. After a tremendous rookie year, he saw a minuscule increase in mpg, from 23.0 to 23.3.

His role on offense was changed dramatically, as the Jazz tried to accommodate their new, highly paid big man John Collins. There would be times when Kessler was completely out of the paint on offense, hiding in the corner and even spotting up for 3, despite his 22% mark from distance.

It makes you wonder if the Jazz aren’t high on his long-term development, but that shouldn’t dissuade the Suns since he’s already exactly what they need.

Kessler’s shot-blocking and finishing ability make him essentially the complete opposite of current starter Jusuf Nurkić, and those are two areas the Suns were severely lacking in last season. Kessler is also as good, if not a better rebounder than Nurk, averaging more total, and offensive, rebounds per 36 over the last two years, so there would be no drop off on the boards. 

The Suns would be losing Nurkić's playmaking, but that isn’t something they’ll miss too much now that they finally signed a point guard, as well as acquired multiple big men who are skilled passers.

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Moreover, Kessler’s low minutes and odd usage suggest that there’s an entirely new level that he can reach in a different setting. There’s no reason he shouldn’t have a starter’s workload, and having a rim protector like him playing 30+ minutes a game would transform the Suns defense into a top unit. The Suns also would also have no reason to have Kessler camped out at the 3-point line. As the lone big man, he would be used exclusively in the paint and as a roller, which is where he thrives.

What makes a Kessler trade so appealing for the Suns is his contract. Since he’s still on his rookie deal, he’ll be making just under $3 million this upcoming season. The only player the Suns could trade in a one-for-one swap for him would be Nassir Little. Little doesn't figure to be in the Suns' rotation, and likely has been held onto as a trade chip.

And while he isn't close to as impactful as Kessler is, Kessler's low contract number means that the vast majority of players in that contract range are players like Little. The Jazz wouldn’t be landing a star in a swap for Kessler, and will be prioritizing picks in return for him. The Suns can offer their 2031 1st, which is one of the best picks on the market, along with several second rounders.

Trading for Kessler means that Nurkić would likely be moved, one way or another. In an ideal scenario, Nurk would be the one involved in the Kessler trade. His $18 million contract means the Suns could get an additional player such as Jordan Clarkson back.

Unfortunately, the value isn’t quite there for the Jazz with the Suns having no additional picks to attach. Instead, Nurk would have have to be moved in a separate trade, which could shore up the Suns depth.

I'm sharing this article because I still believe that Walker Kessler SHOULD ABSOLUTELY be a top trade target for us this season! Whether using Nurkic in a trade along with our 2031 1st ( WITH PROTECTIONS)! Or if keeping Nurkic, as a high end mobile shotblocking, switchable, long backup center option to give us the different dynamic that we'll need in the playoffs.

Also, I'm reasonably confident that in the right situation ( under Budenholzer), Kessler could develop well along the lines of what Brook Lopez provided ( skillset wise) for coach Bud and the Bucks in his system. He's already an elite shotblocker with great mobility, switching, finishing around the rim, and some 3 point shooting potential too.

He just needs the proper environment to develop to full potential.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Frank Lee]

Jeezus…. Another click baiting window shopper drumming up views. Sure lets get Kessler… and here is all the reasons why we should… but but but
How? Lets not worry about that. Just get it done!
furthermore, to claim our 2031 pick has high value?? This is Ainge we are dealing with.

What a joke… sorry ghost but you ought to know better. its a ways and means situation.

At the bare minimum, Allen goes somewheres…? I do expect Matty RahRah to deal him in another good money chasing bad scenario. I fear hes not done whacking off the future

[Ghost of Kleine]

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We need to just waive Roddy, decline to bring back Okogie, and Sign Theiss as our versatile switchable backup 4, And Covington (preferably) or Crowder as our starting SF so we have more size and defense at the small forward while also being able to move Allen/O'neale to our bench to significantly strengthen our bench and add scoring punch to it as well. Covington or Crowder would also be great to mentor Dunn and Bridges for us. And Theiss shoots 36% from three, is a versatile defender and solid weakside shot-blocker who could really mentor Ighodaro too.

We've learned multiple times how important key depth can be. We have a chance to really create strong versatile depth across our roster for various matchups. We need to quit messing around and get these two guys signed and finish our free agency really strong.

[bigfoot]

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We need to just waive Roddy, decline to bring back Okogie, and Sign Theiss as our versatile switchable backup 4, And Covington (preferably) or Crowder as our starting SF so we have more size and defense at the small forward while also being able to move Allen/O'neale to our bench to significantly strengthen our bench and add scoring punch to it as well. Covington or Crowder would also be great to mentor Dunn and Bridges for us. And Theiss shoots 36% from three, is a versatile defender and solid weakside shot-blocker who could really mentor Ighodaro too.

We've learned multiple times how important key depth can be. We have a chance to really create strong versatile depth across our roster for various matchups. We need to quit messing around and get these two guys signed and finish our free agency really strong.

Old guys that don’t move the needle. Bench needs guys that can create and score. Neither of them fit that mold. I’d be more excited getting Hayward.

Between Monte and Hayward I’d believe our bench would have a chance of scoring.

[Saberestar]

[Saberestar]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Jeezus…. Another click baiting window shopper drumming up views. Sure lets get Kessler… and here is all the reasons why we should… but but but
How? Lets not worry about that. Just get it done!
furthermore, to claim our 2031 pick has high value?? This is Ainge we are dealing with.

What a joke… sorry ghost but you ought to know better. its a ways and means situation.

At the bare minimum, Allen goes somewheres…? I do expect Matty RahRah to deal him in another good money-chasing bad scenario. I fear he is not done whacking off the future

No worries man! I get what you're saying. The "how" is the creative part, knowing that Ainge is a really difficult SOB to try and deal with and even more so as he covets and is stingily wanting maximum value from picks. However, I do think there could be ways to give him the picks that he's seeking.

1-Memphis/ Utah/ Phoenix:
https://fanspo.com/nba/s/suns/trades/5FKc5MOIV88F7D/sunsgrizzliesjazz-player-swap-premise
Memphis- Jusuf Nurkic.

Utah- John Konchar/Zhaire Williams/ MEM' 25' 1st (Top 10 protected)/ PHX 2031 1st (top 5 protected).

Phoenix- Walker Kessler/ Micah Potter/ UTA 29' 2nd.
** The Jazz can send a future 2nd or protected 1st if the value is still somewhat uneven.

2- Golden State/ Utah/ Phoenix
https://fanspo.com/nba/s/suns/trades/ehWCc6LosIKKXG/golden-state-utah-phoenix-trade-premise
Golden State- Nurkic.

Utah- Payton 2nd/ GS 25' 1st' (lottery protected)PHX 2031 1st (Top 5 protected).

Phoenix- Kessler/ Looney/ UTA 29' 2nd.

3- Pistons/ Jazz/ Suns
Pistons- Nurkic.

Jazz- Sasser/Metu/ PHX 2031 1st (Top 5 protected)/ DET 29 2nd.

Phoenix- Kessler/ Potter/ 27' 2nd BRK or DAL (via Detroit)/ 2030 2nd (via Utah).

Now as for the PHX 2031 1st, I absolutely do believe it'll be viewed as having premium (potential top 5 lottery) potential considering that most likely none of our big three will still be on the roster by then and we'll very likely be a high lotto caliber team again! I also get the argument some make around not wanting to trade that pick because of its projection as a high lotto pick too. BUT........................ I do believe that we can/will recoup any potential lost picks to make up for our remaining assets by trading any/all of KD, Booker, Beal (in time), and either of Allen or O'neale to a smaller degree. So I'm not as overly concerned about packaging that pick if it returns a very promising high-caliber (potential young talent like Kessler. With Kessler, I believe he has all defensive potential, which could give our team 2 all-defensive caliber talents on our roster that could help balance out our team's offensive stars' games.

And when we're ready to pivot to a rebuild, we can offload those players too as premium trade assets as well if we choose to.

[RaisingArizona]

Inside Day 1 of Team USA’s Olympic training camp: ‘Greatness in the room’ - The Athletic https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5621174/2024/07/07/team-usa-basketball-olympics-training-camp-day-1/


Any cliff notes here on the boys from Planet Orange?

[Ghost of Kleine]

What I'd really like to do, IF we get around the trade deadline and find that we aren't legit contenders and obviously were not intending to keep KD long-term beyond his current contract, is to trade KD to the Pelicans for Ingram/ Hawkins/ Seabron/ LAL 25' 1st (No Protections)/ MIL 27' 1st (No Protections)/ 2030 2nd.
https://fanspo.com/nba/s/suns/trades/If_KdWTqJLJBxY/kd-ingram-swap-premise

In doing this trade we'd get a younger slightly lesser version of KD as Ingram is in the same archetype! But being younger can help keep us more competitive longer on a similar timeline with our core! So any picks we'd be concerned w gave up in the trade to get KD would be somewhat mitigated by still having a big three that's younger and can sustain us in a longer window competitively. We'd also be getting two very promising young wings in Hawkins and Seabron that could develop with our core, or we could package for other pieces and assets. Lastly, we'd be getting two premium picks with lottery potential and a quality 2nd. Not a godfather return by any means, but very solid value for a 36 yr old superstar in the twilight of his career.

[KdoubleDees23]

What I'd really like to do, IF we get around the trade deadline and find that we aren't legit contenders and obviously were not intending to keep KD long-term beyond his current contract, is to trade KD to the Pelicans for Ingram/ Hawkins/ Seabron/ LAL 25' 1st (No Protections)/ MIL 27' 1st (No Protections)/ 2030 2nd.
https://fanspo.com/nba/s/suns/trades/If_KdWTqJLJBxY/kd-ingram-swap-premise

In doing this trade we'd get a younger slightly lesser version of KD as Ingram is in the same archetype! But being younger can help keep us more competitive longer on a similar timeline with our core! So any picks we'd be concerned w gave up in the trade to get KD would be somewhat mitigated by still having a big three that's younger and can sustain us in a longer window competitively. We'd also be getting two very promising young wings in Hawkins and Seabron that could develop with our core, or we could package for other pieces and assets. Lastly, we'd be getting two premium picks with lottery potential and a quality 2nd. Not a godfather return by any means, but very solid value for a 36 yr old superstar in the twilight of his career.

Not a bad idea.

Ingram, Herbert Jones, LAL 2 1st and Mil 27th 1st.

that would give depth for 1 player, and some future picks.

[mkot]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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We need to just waive Roddy, decline to bring back Okogie, and Sign Theiss as our versatile switchable backup 4, And Covington (preferably) or Crowder as our starting SF so we have more size and defense at the small forward while also being able to move Allen/O'neale to our bench to significantly strengthen our bench and add scoring punch to it as well. Covington or Crowder would also be great to mentor Dunn and Bridges for us. And Theiss shoots 36% from three, is a versatile defender and solid weakside shot-blocker who could really mentor Ighodaro too.

We've learned multiple times how important key depth can be. We have a chance to really create strong versatile depth across our roster for various matchups. We need to quit messing around and get these two guys signed and finish our free agency really strong.

Old guys that don’t move the needle. The bench needs guys that can create and score. Neither of them fit that mold. I’d be more excited getting Hayward.

Between Monte and Hayward I’d believe our bench would have a chance of scoring.

I want Covington and Thiess for their defensive versatility, size, etc in addition to the fact that both can reliably also space the floor when needed too. And we don't need more scoring in the starting lineup with three elite offensive super weapons in Bal, Booker, and KD that any of those three can go off for 50+ points on a given night man. Also you're saying the bench needs scoring more than defensive versatility, but in adding Covington and Theiss, our bench would have:
Morris- 42% from three. And 5 points average.
Allen- 46% from three. And 13 points average.
O'neale- 37% from three. And 8 points average.
Theiss- 37% from three. and 6 points average.
Plumlee- 0% from three and 5 points average.
37 points 2nd rotation.

Gillespie- 39% from three. And 3 points.
D Lee- 37% from three. And 8 points.
Dunn- 20% from three. And 8 points.
Bol- 42% from three. And 5 points.
Ighodaro- 0% from there. And 13 points.
37 points 3rd rotation.

So really even at their baselines and without potential improvements, you're still getting upwards of 74 points from the bench. And possibly more at times if the chemistry for our starters is better than last season. Now I do respect your concerns over scoring from the bench, but scoring wasn't what eliminated us from the playoffs in the first round in an embarrassing sweep by a younger upstart team! We got handled in large part due to our overall lack of size, physicality, passivity, and inability to stop opposing teams' runs or even slow their star players/ other scorers down much if at all. This indirectly forced our big three to have to play heavier minutes in order to try to rebuild/ Sustain our leads in games which also wore them out earlier in games, reducing their overall efficiency in those 3rd and 4th quarters.

The other part of your argument is that we also got beat by teams beating us by the sheer volume of threes that they put up against us cumulatively outshooting our midrange-loving star trio. But that can easily be mitigated by simply having our big three shoot more threes instead of twos, adding better perimeter defenders/ switch defenders, POA defenders to limit kick outs (which we already have done), and bringing back quality point shooters. And our bench as I'm suggesting under these very conditions would now have no less than 6 very solid to elite three-point shooters just mixed on our bench. So our bench scoring should really be fine man. Moving Allen and O'neeale to the bench would give our bench that scoring boost.

Now I'm a fan of Hayward too and love that Idea for his scoring, playmaking, and vet presence. But Hayward is very much a one-way player at this point, and would at best be a defensive neutral to negative for us. So we'd be pretty much repeating the same mistakes as before in adding one-way players that can score at times but would give up as many points as they'd contribute on the other end. And as far as moving the needle, how much did Okogie and Roddy really move the needle for us if comparing them to Covington and Theiss as potential vet min options? Boston and Minnesota gave us a solid blueprint/ template for success. The Celtics won the championship on the premise of solid two-way player depth and three-point shooting. What I'm suggesting allows us to promote both of those criteria.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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I guess it's better he's experiencing this now though rather than in the season. But I do have to wonder at least a little if this isn't a precursor to something worse coming due to age-related decline (physical durability).