An early summer 2024 thread

[esqtvd]

The difference between a winner and Paul George:

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Maybe the fact that the Lakers gave his son a 4 year $7.9 million contract which is fully guaranteed?

Not sure if that's typical for a #55 pick.

Maybe he might have not been drafted at all and he'd have been an undrafted free agent, in which case that contract would be even less likely.

FTR, the new "second-round exception" [which the Clippers also used for #46 Cam Christie] the SRP's contract doesn't count against the cap or aprons. Which means Bron and Bronny pretty much squeezed the Buss Family, Inc. for every dime short of the second apron [which is to Bron's benefit as much as the org's if he wants a better team].

[KL2]

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[esqtvd]

Get this: Looks like the new CBA is a clusterfk all over. Caleb Martin's people seemed to misunderstand Miami's long-term package, and now he's locked in for FOUR YEARS with the Sixers for $8M a year instead of 5 years @ $13M!!


Miami Heat Were 'Dumbfounded' With Caleb Martin Contract Negotiations

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/miami-heat-were-dumbfounded-with-caleb-martin-contract-negotiations/ar-BB1pwPU0

The Miami Heat lost a major piece of their core this summer after veteran swingman Caleb Martin agreed to join the Philadelphia 76ers. According to NBA insider Barry Jackson, the Heat tried to negotiate with Martin but were left 'dumbfounded' by the decisions made by him and his camp.

"Miami could not make a similar offer after free agency started because it would have involved Martin opting in with much bigger salaries in subsequent years," wrote Jackson. "So Martin turned down 5 years, $65 million from Heat and then a week later settled for what ESPN said is 4 years topping $32M from the 76ers. Martin's rep thought the Heat's offer wasn't good enough, which dumbfounded Heat. This Heat/Martin negotiation last weekend was quite (shall we say) intense, per 2 sources. Martin's camp thought Heat was trying to force him to take what Martin's rep thought was a below market deal and made that clear. Heat thought this was a very good offer (it was) and made that very clear."

Caleb Martin was among the more minor free agents this summer but his shooting and defense on the wing are highly valuable skills in the NBA and they helped the Heat win a lot of games over the past three years.

Martin, 28, emerged as a premier frontcourt player for the Miami Heat. He initially broke out during the 2023 Finals run and went on to average 10.0 points, 4.4 rebounds, and 2.2 assists per game on 43.1% shooting last season. With his deal set to expire this summer, the Heat had been negotiating a new contract with Martin and reportedly made an offer of roughly $13 million per year for the next five years.

Martin would have had to opt into his $7.1 million player option next season to sign the extension but it was a step that he was unwilling to take. Instead, Martin had his agents play hardball with the Heat and when he opted out of his deal it essentially took Miami's $65 million offer off the table.

With nowhere else to turn, Martin had to accept a new deal with the 76ers for $32 million over four years, which is just around $8 million per year. Clearly, Martin made a mistake with his contract decision and it's something he'll have to live with for the next four years.

As for the Heat, while Martin was no star, he was a huge piece of their offense and gave them some much-needed fire-power on the perimeter. With him gone and Jimmy Butler another year older, it's fair to say the Heat will take a step back in the East standings next season.

________________________________

ADD:

According to reports, the Heat front office barely knows how to handle the new CBA and they have yet to make a trade or signing that will move the needle for them. As their core players get older, including Jimmy and Bam, it will get harder and harder for them to keep up with rising levels of competition.

https://fadeawayworld.net/miami-heat-do-not-understand-the-new-cba

[esqtvd]

I like the ideas here. Grant Williams, Cameron Johnson, John Collins.

What about Malcolm Brogdon, Kyle Kuzma. What's also so bad about Vucevic.

All fine. But the Clippers have no assets [young talent, picks] to get them with. Not even enough to dump contracts like PJ Tucker's $11M. And at ~$20M/yr, there might not even be many/any takers for Norman Powell. Supposedly T-Mann was untouchable last fall, but now on the last year of his contract @ $11M, I don't even know if his value is more as a player or an expiring.

I mean, the Sixers just got a more intriguing player in Caleb Martin for $8M, and Miami offered him $13M [see above].

[og15]

Get this: Looks like the new CBA is a clusterfk all over. Caleb Martin's people seemed to misunderstand Miami's long-term package, and now he's locked in for FOUR YEARS with the Sixers for $8M a year instead of 5 years @ $13M!!


Miami Heat Were 'Dumbfounded' With Caleb Martin Contract Negotiations

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/miami-heat-were-dumbfounded-with-caleb-martin-contract-negotiations/ar-BB1pwPU0

The Miami Heat lost a major piece of their core this summer after veteran swingman Caleb Martin agreed to join the Philadelphia 76ers. According to NBA insider Barry Jackson, the Heat tried to negotiate with Martin but were left 'dumbfounded' by the decisions made by him and his camp.

"Miami could not make a similar offer after free agency started because it would have involved Martin opting in with much bigger salaries in subsequent years," wrote Jackson. "So Martin turned down 5 years, $65 million from Heat and then a week later settled for what ESPN said is 4 years topping $32M from the 76ers. Martin's rep thought the Heat's offer wasn't good enough, which dumbfounded Heat. This Heat/Martin negotiation last weekend was quite (shall we say) intense, per 2 sources. Martin's camp thought Heat was trying to force him to take what Martin's rep thought was a below market deal and made that clear. Heat thought this was a very good offer (it was) and made that very clear."

Caleb Martin was among the more minor free agents this summer but his shooting and defense on the wing are highly valuable skills in the NBA and they helped the Heat win a lot of games over the past three years.

Martin, 28, emerged as a premier frontcourt player for the Miami Heat. He initially broke out during the 2023 Finals run and went on to average 10.0 points, 4.4 rebounds, and 2.2 assists per game on 43.1% shooting last season. With his deal set to expire this summer, the Heat had been negotiating a new contract with Martin and reportedly made an offer of roughly $13 million per year for the next five years.

Martin would have had to opt into his $7.1 million player option next season to sign the extension but it was a step that he was unwilling to take. Instead, Martin had his agents play hardball with the Heat and when he opted out of his deal it essentially took Miami's $65 million offer off the table.

With nowhere else to turn, Martin had to accept a new deal with the 76ers for $32 million over four years, which is just around $8 million per year. Clearly, Martin made a mistake with his contract decision and it's something he'll have to live with for the next four years.

As for the Heat, while Martin was no star, he was a huge piece of their offense and gave them some much-needed fire-power on the perimeter. With him gone and Jimmy Butler another year older, it's fair to say the Heat will take a step back in the East standings next season.

________________________________

ADD:

According to reports, the Heat front office barely knows how to handle the new CBA and they have yet to make a trade or signing that will move the needle for them. As their core players get older, including Jimmy and Bam, it will get harder and harder for them to keep up with rising levels of competition.

https://fadeawayworld.net/miami-heat-do-not-understand-the-new-cba

I feel like every team should have a cap guy, this simply doesn't make sense that a team is so confused about this and is just stagnant.

[Ballings7]

I like the ideas here. Grant Williams, Cameron Johnson, John Collins.

What about Malcolm Brogdon, Kyle Kuzma. What's also so bad about Vucevic.

All fine. But the Clippers have no assets [young talent, picks] to get them with. Not even enough to dump contracts like PJ Tucker's $11M. And at ~$20M/yr, there might not even be many/any takers for Norman Powell. Supposedly T-Mann was untouchable last fall, but now on the last year of his contract @ $11M, I don't even know if his value is more as a player or an expiring.

I mean, the Sixers just got a more intriguing player in Caleb Martin for $8M, and Miami offered him $13M [see above].

Kuzma would be real good. Fits the modern PF mold well, and would help out on the glass well. Similar to Collins in ways but a better jumpshooter and better scorer.

Just not sure how realistic it is for LAC to get him.. lean towards not but who knows.

[esqtvd]

Zu is expiring too.

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Ivica Zubac is currently on a 3-yr, $33M contract that will expire after the 2024-25 NBA season. Zubac has been consistent and highly valued and is the longest-tenured player on the Clippers' roster. The Clippers aim to extend Zubac's contract further and solidify him as a key piece.

[KL2]

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[TrueLAfan]

Said it before, will say it again. The guy to go after is Saddiq Bey. I’d love to go after a slightly flawed but (very) talented guy like Kuzma or, to a lesser degree, Collins, But the fact is, as people are noting, we probably don’t have the assets to get them.

So play a Chess game. Make less room for a player that is flying under the radar because of a non-chronic injury issue. Don’t try to get the player that will help immediately. Get a player that can and will be stashed for a while, on a good contract. Bey will be on injured reserve until after the break; this solves the current players under contract issue. Like I said, the difference between Miles Bridges and Saddiq Bey on court is actually small.

Code: Select all

PER36
             FG%  3p%  FT%   PPG   RPG  APG  SPG  BPG   TO  PF
Bridges     .470 .347 .813   17.4  7.0  2.9  0.9  0.8  1.8  2.3
Bey         .408 .352 .842   16.8  6.3  2.2  1.0  0.2  1.1  1.8



Bridges is a markedly better two point shooter. He scores a little more and is a better rebounder that gets more assists. Bey shoots a little better from distance (on more attempts), is a little better from the line and gets there more often (which makes up a lot of the 2 point efficiency difference), has a better A/TO ratio and fouls a little less. Both are high energy guys that play hard on both ends. Bey is 6’8” 215 with a 6’11” wingspan. Bridges is 6’8” 225 with a 6’9.5” wingspan. Bey is 25; Bridges is 26. Both came from great college programs.

I’m not feeling a huge discrepancy here. And for that difference … well, look at the numbers. Miles Bridges just signed a three year deal at around $25 million a year. My guess is we can get Saddiq Bey for literally a quarter to a third of that. A three year deal with a team and player option in the third year for $22 million? For the younger guy with less off court issues? I’d offer that in a heartbeat.

[KL2]

If this is true I think they wanted him to leave lol.

That or they knew he wanted to leave despite what he says. He wanted what Kawhi got plus a no trade clause. When Clippers said no he asked for the max. Negotiations started in October. Thank you Clippers for not caving.

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[jengmann3]

If this is true I think they wanted him to leave lol.

That or they knew he wanted to leave despite what he says. He wanted what Kawhi got plus a no trade clause. When Clippers said no he asked for the max. Negotiations started in October. Thank you Clippers for not caving.

Read on Twitter

It was a fascinating listen. I like the transparency. I wish someone would disrespect me with a 60 million dollars contract lol. Also it's more than Demar DeRozan is getting annually. But I get it, it does sound low. I think the fact that he eventually did get Kawhi's number is interesting. It makes it kinda funny, one minute it's offer me the same as kawhi, then he literally got the same as kawhi. lol. I get his logic it just sounded funny. At the end of the day he got an extra year and 60+ million that he can't ever get back. I think it's ok to say that.

[Clemenza]

The difference between a winner and Paul George:

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GTFOH!! Bron and Klutch has that team by the balls and in a nasty severe chokehold. Hired his podcast buddy as the head coach, got Bronny drafted and a 4 year guaranteed deal, and they didn't get not one free agent. "Oh he took $3 million less so the Lakers can stay out of the 2nd apron". So PG was supposed to pass up on $61 million, correct?? You hated him anyways, you should be overjoyed that he's gone.

[og15]

If this is true I think they wanted him to leave lol.

That or they knew he wanted to leave despite what he says. He wanted what Kawhi got plus a no trade clause. When Clippers said no he asked for the max. Negotiations started in October. Thank you Clippers for not caving.

Read on Twitter

It was a fascinating listen. I like the transparency. I wish someone would disrespect me with a 60 million dollars contract lol. Also it's more than Demar DeRozan is getting annually. But I get it, it does sound low. I think the fact that he eventually did get Kawhi's number is interesting. It makes it kinda funny, one minute it's offer me the same as kawhi, then he literally got the same as kawhi. lol. I get his logic it just sounded funny. At the end of the day he got an extra year and 60+ million that he can't ever get back. I think it's ok to say that.

If we look at a lot of the discussion among us as fans, the idea of re-signing him was to re-sign him and then trade him for the best offer possible when he becomes eligible and when it presents itself. We all remember the FO did it with Blake, and he was actually someone that meant something to the franchise, so Paul George and his agent aren't going to be dumb and know he's not anyone special to the Clippers, and who the team won't trade for the best deal possible if it comes and it makes sense for them.

So, yea, considering most of us wanted to sign him and then have him traded for the best deal possible when eligible, if he returned, he would be agreeing to take less money and basically be open to getting sent to a team like Charlotte (just giving an example). There's no way him and his agent were not aware of this reality, and everyone was aiming to do what is best for themselves.

[KL2]

Former Clippers news.

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[og15]

The difference between a winner and Paul George:

Read on Twitter

GTFOH!! Bron and Klutch has that team by the balls and in a nasty severe chokehold. Hired his podcast buddy as the head coach, got Bronny drafted and a 4 year guaranteed deal, and they didn't get not one free agent. "Oh he took $3 million less so the Lakers can stay out of the 2nd apron". So PG was supposed to pass up on $61 million, correct?? You hated him anyways, you should be overjoyed that he's gone.

Haha, yea, I don't get the whole people who wanted him gone who are mad that he left.

...but I'm also not going to be mad at a player for not wanting to sign up to be traded at the first sign of a good deal, which clearly is what most of us wanted. I'm not really going to be mad that we couldn't convince (trick) a guy into signing for less just so we could send him likely to a not favorable location

[jengmann3]

The only slight correction that is a bit unclear. Would the 3 year 150m extension been added onto his current deal, which he was making 48.7m. so really he woulda been signed for around 4 years 200m no? If that's the case then 12 million and a no trade clause is what ur not budging on.

[madmaxmedia]

Get this: Looks like the new CBA is a clusterfk all over. Caleb Martin's people seemed to misunderstand Miami's long-term package, and now he's locked in for FOUR YEARS with the Sixers for $8M a year instead of 5 years @ $13M!!


Miami Heat Were 'Dumbfounded' With Caleb Martin Contract Negotiations

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/miami-heat-were-dumbfounded-with-caleb-martin-contract-negotiations/ar-BB1pwPU0

The Miami Heat lost a major piece of their core this summer after veteran swingman Caleb Martin agreed to join the Philadelphia 76ers. According to NBA insider Barry Jackson, the Heat tried to negotiate with Martin but were left 'dumbfounded' by the decisions made by him and his camp.

"Miami could not make a similar offer after free agency started because it would have involved Martin opting in with much bigger salaries in subsequent years," wrote Jackson. "So Martin turned down 5 years, $65 million from Heat and then a week later settled for what ESPN said is 4 years topping $32M from the 76ers. Martin's rep thought the Heat's offer wasn't good enough, which dumbfounded Heat. This Heat/Martin negotiation last weekend was quite (shall we say) intense, per 2 sources. Martin's camp thought Heat was trying to force him to take what Martin's rep thought was a below market deal and made that clear. Heat thought this was a very good offer (it was) and made that very clear."

Caleb Martin was among the more minor free agents this summer but his shooting and defense on the wing are highly valuable skills in the NBA and they helped the Heat win a lot of games over the past three years.

Martin, 28, emerged as a premier frontcourt player for the Miami Heat. He initially broke out during the 2023 Finals run and went on to average 10.0 points, 4.4 rebounds, and 2.2 assists per game on 43.1% shooting last season. With his deal set to expire this summer, the Heat had been negotiating a new contract with Martin and reportedly made an offer of roughly $13 million per year for the next five years.

Martin would have had to opt into his $7.1 million player option next season to sign the extension but it was a step that he was unwilling to take. Instead, Martin had his agents play hardball with the Heat and when he opted out of his deal it essentially took Miami's $65 million offer off the table.

With nowhere else to turn, Martin had to accept a new deal with the 76ers for $32 million over four years, which is just around $8 million per year. Clearly, Martin made a mistake with his contract decision and it's something he'll have to live with for the next four years.

As for the Heat, while Martin was no star, he was a huge piece of their offense and gave them some much-needed fire-power on the perimeter. With him gone and Jimmy Butler another year older, it's fair to say the Heat will take a step back in the East standings next season.

________________________________

ADD:

According to reports, the Heat front office barely knows how to handle the new CBA and they have yet to make a trade or signing that will move the needle for them. As their core players get older, including Jimmy and Bam, it will get harder and harder for them to keep up with rising levels of competition.

https://fadeawayworld.net/miami-heat-do-not-understand-the-new-cba

I feel like every team should have a cap guy, this simply doesn't make sense that a team is so confused about this and is just stagnant.

If anything, I think Caleb Martin's agent needs a cap guy to explain what a good offer is.

[madmaxmedia]

If this is true I think they wanted him to leave lol.

That or they knew he wanted to leave despite what he says. He wanted what Kawhi got plus a no trade clause. When Clippers said no he asked for the max. Negotiations started in October. Thank you Clippers for not caving.

Read on Twitter

It was a fascinating listen. I like the transparency. I wish someone would disrespect me with a 60 million dollars contract lol. Also it's more than Demar DeRozan is getting annually. But I get it, it does sound low. I think the fact that he eventually did get Kawhi's number is interesting. It makes it kinda funny, one minute it's offer me the same as kawhi, then he literally got the same as kawhi. lol. I get his logic it just sounded funny. At the end of the day he got an extra year and 60+ million that he can't ever get back. I think it's ok to say that.

If we look at a lot of the discussion among us as fans, the idea of re-signing him was to re-sign him and then trade him for the best offer possible when he becomes eligible and when it presents itself. We all remember the FO did it with Blake, and he was actually someone that meant something to the franchise, so Paul George and his agent aren't going to be dumb and know he's not anyone special to the Clippers, and who the team won't trade for the best deal possible if it comes and it makes sense for them.

So, yea, considering most of us wanted to sign him and then have him traded for the best deal possible when eligible, if he returned, he would be agreeing to take less money and basically be open to getting sent to a team like Charlotte (just giving an example). There's no way him and his agent were not aware of this reality, and everyone was aiming to do what is best for themselves.

There is also the human side of negotiations, where even though it's just a first offer it is still a signal, and there are going to be emotions involved. By the time it got to Kawhi level numbers, there was probably lots of smoke about other teams especially the Sixers' upcoming cap space.

I think in the end the cap implications made it hard for the two sides to come to a mutually beneficial deal, and parting ways made the most sense for both sides.

I don't care what PG said before about wanting or owing a title to LA, he said what he felt at the time and that's a lot better than saying, yeah I guess I like being here and would like to win. His existing contract was complete so we didn't owe him anything, he didn't owe us anything either.

[Roscoe Sheed]

If this is true I think they wanted him to leave lol.

That or they knew he wanted to leave despite what he says. He wanted what Kawhi got plus a no trade clause. When Clippers said no he asked for the max. Negotiations started in October. Thank you Clippers for not caving.

Read on Twitter

It was a fascinating listen. I like the transparency. I wish someone would disrespect me with a 60 million dollars contract lol. Also it's more than Demar DeRozan is getting annually. But I get it, it does sound low. I think the fact that he eventually did get Kawhi's number is interesting. It makes it kinda funny, one minute it's offer me the same as kawhi, then he literally got the same as kawhi. lol. I get his logic it just sounded funny. At the end of the day he got an extra year and 60+ million that he can't ever get back. I think it's ok to say that.

If we look at a lot of the discussion among us as fans, the idea of re-signing him was to re-sign him and then trade him for the best offer possible when he becomes eligible and when it presents itself. We all remember the FO did it with Blake, and he was actually someone that meant something to the franchise, so Paul George and his agent aren't going to be dumb and know he's not anyone special to the Clippers, and who the team won't trade for the best deal possible if it comes and it makes sense for them.

So, yea, considering most of us wanted to sign him and then have him traded for the best deal possible when eligible, if he returned, he would be agreeing to take less money and basically be open to getting sent to a team like Charlotte (just giving an example). There's no way him and his agent were not aware of this reality, and everyone was aiming to do what is best for themselves.

Sounds like the clippers didn’t really want to keep pg- they lowballed him and they also refused to give him the ntc. I actually liked pg in some ways and will always credit him for pushing the team to the wcf in 21. However, I do like the new flexibility the team has with him gone though. I also think Philly will regret the contract they gave him as he is clearly declining- still a very good player, but likely just be a decent starter toward the end of the contract

[wco81]

Bill Simmons and Ryan Rusillo talk a bit about the Clippers in Simmon's latest podcast.

Simmons said he'd have pointed out to Ballmer that they don't have picks. But maybe the Clippers think they can go in on a big free agent next summer or the summer after that.