jbk1234 wrote:I'm not sure losing to the Celtics in the semis, with two of our starters out, counts as an early out. Also, there seems to be some cognitive dissonance on the part of certain fans who insisted that JB was not a playoff coach, but also insist that replacing him won't change anything.
Two things can be true at once. JB can be substandard coach, and poor roster construction can place a ceiling on the team. Both need to be addressed, we are apparently only willing to do one at a time. Which will ultimately end in an early out.
toooskies wrote:Don't quote me without the full phrase. "Potential" is doing some work there. Any of Garland/Allen/Mobley are potential all-stars, but they eat into each others' production on the same team. But this is true of most teams with multiple potential all-stars-- LeBron/Kyrie/Love all made the all-star game only once together in three years, the year after the Cavs' title. The best player gets all the credit and sometimes the second-best (and occasionally the third-best) gets credit if they're marketable AND the team is near the top of the conference AND there's credit from the previous postseason.
Garland could absolutely be an all-star again. It might take a trade, or an injury or two to important teammates, or some postseason success the year prior, or the Cavs having the best record in the conference. Probably not with the Cavs all being healthy. It took Mobley and Garland getting injured for Allen to get all-star buzz last year, but he can be that player when the team doesn't need him to be a star in his role instead.
I also don't think you need to take a step back. Many, or even most teams want player value rather than picks when trading a star player. Particularly if they've already traded away their own draft picks to build around that guy. The Heat would probably prefer Garland + Allen over draft picks for Butler, for instance. (Not saying Butler's a good target for Cleveland or that it's an equal-value trade, but from Miami's perspective, they'd want players and not picks.) The Lakers aren't a development team, they'd want players rather than picks for AD once LeBron retires. Phoenix would want players rather than picks for KD given how little value they'd derive from being a developmental roster. Dallas or Milwaukee have traded too many future picks to bottom out if Luka or Giannis want to leave.
I should correct mine too in this context. Garland will never be an all-star while playing with Mitchell, if Mitchell is actually playing. Yes multiple injuries could open up opportunities for Allen or Garland again. I'll concede that.
It may not actually be a step back in the standings, meant more so from a perspective on what's been built here. I don't think 'star player' is really relevant for CLE, we don't have the assets for that after the Mitchell over pay. He is THE 'star' here, until the next full rebuild. There still can be incremental improvement acquiring a lesser player (presumably for Garland) who is a better fit... presumably sometime next off season when we're ready to make that type of move.
